JonnyF

There's a network of REAL helmet dealers in BKK. I think I listed a couple in a previous thread. I bought one for about 1400 baht and it's been OK - not spectacular but good value for money and much better than Index or anything similar. The visor scratches if you look at it the wrong way but apart from that it's been good.

I'd recommend spending around 5000 baht and getting an HJC, they punch well above their weight and they're the best budget option for people who want a proper helmet without spending a fortune. I think Paddock had them a while back for 3000-4000 baht but they may be sold out by now.

Two out of three good reviews I thought (the shorter film of the three was weak and offered no opinion at all so not worthy of comment) so thanks for posting taichiplanet. 2 things stood out for me. In the first review the guy concluded that if he was buying for himself then he'd spend the extra and get theNinja - but if he was buying for his son or daughter he'd buy the CBR. Kind of sums up the differences for me.

The second review was a bit strange being that he was reviewing 2 bikes claiming to be sports bikes. He conceded that the Ninja was the faster and the more sporty of the two – to quote "the hp makes a huge difference" and then comparing it to the other two in the twisties "it's just pulling away". He then gave the victory to the CBR based on the Ninja having a carb (not an issue in Thailand), and the CBR being a superior commuter bike, user friendliness etc.

Given that that the article was titled "beginner bikeshootout" I can kind of understand the conclusion. If the article was "most fun 250" then I'm guessing he'd have gone for the Ninja. So the Ninja is the better sports bike and the CBR is the better commuter/beginner bike, who'd have thought it?

I was thinking seriously about purchasing the Ninja 250R here in Canada. However, I have been holding off - waiting until we finally get the fuel-injected iteration here. I've ridden it and I love how it handles, love how it looks, and love the parallel twin whine that it emits. However, I don't love the fuel economy. In most of the online magazine tests so far the CBR250R is obtaining up to 1.5 times (yes I wrote that correctly) better fuel economy - under constant flogging of both bikes. It may be true that the Ninja 250R is more performance oriented (and perhaps even more fun - when you rev it to the moon to extract all its 2 extra rear-wheel HP over the CBR250R). However, it sounds like having fun on the Ninja 250R occurs to the detriment of acceptable fuel economy. SportRider magazine's recent comparison yielded an average fuel-economy of 70mpg for the CBR250R (and a dismal 46mpg for the Ninja 250R) after their requisite flogging. Rider magazine also tested the CBR250R against the Ninja 250R and after a "day-long dual" where they ran the bikes hard, the CBR250R yielded 65mpg, while the Ninja 250R yielded......50mpg....which prompted the magazine to comment "Economy and entertainment run neck-and-neck with the CBR". Economy and entertainment don't run neck and neck enough for me - at least with the carbed Ninja 250R - to make it a viable purchase. I am going with the CBR250R.

Mike

Good points Mike and good choice too. The Ninja is pretending to be a sportsbike while the baby CBR isn't although it actually does a better job of impersonating one than the Kawa. When Honda released the CBR they described it more as a sports-tourer and with similar styling to the VFR that's what it is. But it was obviously going to be compared to the sportsbike-wannabe and those comparisons have been favourable with the CBR coming out tops on almost everything apart from a few kph top speed. Enjoy your new bike, I'm sure you will!

I'd have to disagree. The Ninja is a high revving twin, a sporty bike for riders who like to scream a bike and have fun - not calculate the kpl every time they fill up. The CBR on the other hand is a cheaper alternative, a commuter/learner bike with some fancy fairings - the motorbike equivalent of a Toyota Vios fitted with a massive spoiler and full body kit.

I'd agree that neither are a true sportsbike but judging by the specs and the reviews the Ninja is closer to what it claims to be. Not only in terms of top speed but in terms of hp and handling in the twisties/on the track. If any bike is pretending to be something it's not then it's the low revving, fuel efficient thumper in fancy dress.

Both are good bikes, but built for different purposes and a different demographic. Just enjoy your bike for what it is rather than pretending it's something it's not

Two out of three good reviews I thought (the shorter film of the three was weak and offered no opinion at all so not worthy of comment) so thanks for posting taichiplanet. 2 things stood out for me. In the first review the guy concluded that if he was buying for himself then he'd spend the extra and get theNinja - but if he was buying for his son or daughter he'd buy the CBR. Kind of sums up the differences for me.

The second review was a bit strange being that he was reviewing 2 bikes claiming to be sports bikes. He conceded that the Ninja was the faster and the more sporty of the two – to quote "the hp makes a huge difference" and then comparing it to the other two in the twisties "it's just pulling away". He then gave the victory to the CBR based on the Ninja having a carb (not an issue in Thailand), and the CBR being a superior commuter bike, user friendliness etc.

Given that that the article was titled "beginner bikeshootout" I can kind of understand the conclusion. If the article was "most fun 250" then I'm guessing he'd have gone for the Ninja. So the Ninja is the better sports bike and the CBR is the better commuter/beginner bike, who'd have thought it?

I find Sennheiser to be pretty good value for money, not too expensive but decent enough quality for riding. Not sure where to buy them but with something that small maybe Ebay them and have them posted over.

Just got back from a 10 day holiday in the UK and picked up the latest copy of Bike magazine, one of the best selling bike mags in the UK. Their summary of both bikes is as follows...

CBR - "Smaller, easier and with a less revvy engine than a Ninja 250. Cheaper too, but the Kawasaki feels more authentic". They rated it 1.5 out of 5 for sportiness, 1 out of 5 for desirability and 1 out of 5 for their "techno" rating (whatever that is!)

Ninja - "Ninja is stretching it, but it's a capable, confidence inspiring entry level 250. Pricier than CBR but more substantial". They rated it 2.5 out of 5 for sportiness, 2 out of 5 for desirability and 1 out of 5 for "techno".

I've always found this magazine to be very pro-Honda so I was quite surprised by the extra points awarded to the Ninja. There's some very strange reviews out there though, some saying the total opposite of others although personally I'd have to agree with the extra points awarded for sportiness and desirability.

Fair enough, I didn't realize the stock swingarm had issues with (lack of) rigidity. Be interesting to hear how it handles with the new one.

HJC would be my choice.

Full-face I do not wear due to lack of peripheral vision.

Bought an IS33 last year - has tinted visor that retracts into the shell, with clear faceshield. Like it a lot.

Just bought one of these as well - well kind of - a full face HJC, it's pretty cool you can ride with the inner tint down then if it gets darker just press a button on the top of the lid and the inner tint disappears up into the helmet.

Good for avoiding fines with the cops for the "dark visor" fine - as long as you see them in time

It looks to me like the Versys swingarm is designed that way for increased clearance while off-road.

What are the benefits on a track bike? Seems like a lot of expense and hassle for limited improvement. I assume it's lighter than the er6n swingarm, and it looks better for sure - but are there any other benefits?

From motorcycle-usa.com (this is the old carb'd Ninja)

When it comes to outright engine power and acceleration the single-cylinder Honda still has some way to go to catch the Kawasaki Twin. It’s nearly a second slower to 60 mph and up top it hits a wall shy of 90 mph whereas the green machine will almost nudge 110 mph with the right conditions (downhill, no wind). In side-by-side roll-ons the Ninja was also noticeably quicker.

The biggest difference is the cruising speeds on the freeways. The Honda has to work harder in order to keep pace on the freeway once you reach that 55-65 mph range, running near top speed and vibrating more than the Ninja 250. This makes it tougher to pass when the time comes, as one isn’t left with much breathing room to get around the faster cars ahead. The Kawasaki isn’t exactly a high-speed racer, but it does give a few thousand more rpm to play with when overtaking slower traffic.

“The vibration, especially between 5000-7000 rpm, is much more on the Honda. It feels rough,” Dawes states. “The Honda just struggles more when the speeds increase, making the Kawasaki a far superior bike on the freeway. It just feels safer.”

This is selective quoting on my part as there are also some positives for the CBR in the review as well, although most of them are a result of the FI vs. carb issue which doesn't exist in Thailand as the Thai Ninja is also FI.

Nice report and some good photos as well - I'm pretty jealous.

I think you posted a while back with another long road trip on the Wave didn't you? My original plan when I came here was to ride the entire country on a Honda Wave but the plan never materialised. Maybe when the current job finishes...

He's right you know. It is unlikely that you will ever get into a top speed contest with a car or truck on a long clear public road, All it takes is a slight traffic jam or a set of lights or whatever and the bike is in another realm. It doesn't really matter if the car or truck can do 250 kph, the bike will probably get there quicker in the real world.

I guess that depends where you ride. If you're riding around Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket etc then I'd agree. I regularly go for weekend breaks out of Bangkok, down to Rayong, Sattahip, Baan Chang etc. and there's plenty of long roads where you can cruise at around 170-180 and still get passed by cars. I've also ridden the roads in the trip report above, which is why I was surprised by the claims that the 150kph CBR was uncatchable given the Mercedes, BMW's and sportsbikes that I see blasting their way along these roads.

Just back from two days of highway racing along the 305 and 33, with a nice detour through Khao Yai on the way back, and nothing could catch the CBR, absolutely nothing. And it wasn't for lack of triers either. Many attempted, all failed.

Conditions were great so it was throttle wide open and goodbye to all Hilux', Fortuners and minivans at 150kph cruising speed. I'm not a speedfreak and don't go for gung-ho racing and lying on the tank. And that's only stock form. It will end up with whole new exhaust system and airfilter, with the programmable FI set to keep the stock combustion ratio, what a little animal it will be then. Ninja money then spent on top class suspension, and it will be perfect.

OK, I decided to stay out of this thread since you guys seem pretty happy with the bike and that's fine. I'm glad you had a good ride, but seriously?

Nothing could catch the CBR, absolutely nothing And it wasn't for lack of triers either. Many attempted, all failed I have to assume you are racing Fino's again since any sportsbike would leave you floundering at the 150 kph mark (easily achieved in second gear on many bikes). Any car around the Civic level would cruise past you while the driver was adjusting the aircon.

goodbye to all Hilux', Fortuners and minivans at 150kph I've been tailgated up to 190kph on the GSXr by Fortuners, even by the odd 3.0 Hilux. Once again you're in Dreamland.

And then we have the all too predictable Ninja price reference. Seriously, I think the CBR250 is OK, it's not a bad bike for the money (assuming you don't pay more than 10k over rrp) . I actually like the tri-color 150 with the wider frame. But if you're looking for a reason that people come on this thread to call out the BS, look no further than the comments above. I don't think people are knocking the bike, it's OK. But this delusional fanboy attitude by some of the buyers is getting a bit weird IMO.

People also not forget that you not have to wait until 2012 to get a Suzuki GSX-R1000 K12. Suzuki will likely introduce the new models after the summer...

Any idea if/when the K12 will come to Thailand?

If it was me I'd run it as low as you dare on gas, fill up on fresh Benzine from a proper gas station and then run it hard for a tank full of gas - just find a nice open road and just pin it for 30 minutes each way to blow out the cobwebs.

Then refill with 91 again and see how it is.

Not very technical advise I know, but old/crap fuel, a (possible) low battery and general lack of use is not a good combination. My bikes run like crap unless I ride them regularly. Good chance there's nothing wrong with it. Good luck.

Sounds like a really good idea, well done Honda.

Yamaha also have a training school on the BangNa Trat road, about 10km before the BangPlee industrial estate on the left as you head out of Bangkok. Looks quite a professional setup with a big riding area etc. Never see many people in there though.

Some good points. Interesting how all the high tech fuel efficiency of the Honda seems to be countered by the Elegance being lighter. Sometimes the simple things are the most effective.

I still use my 4-5 year old air-cooled Nouvo MX for short shopping trips. I wouldn't replace it as it does the job and it's still fine mechanically and cosmetically but if I was looking at a replacement I'd go with the Elegance. These scooters are just convenient tools - so for me the cheaper and simpler option is better. As people have said, any local can fix a carb. If you're doing high mileage or touring then I'd look at a totally different type of bike anyway. For short trips the simpler, lighter, cheaper Elegance is adequate IMO.

Best check the date of the article I think

Nice idea though

I've got a pair of Hornee Kevlar jeans (Australian company I believe). Look like normal jeans and I use them for short trips on my GSXR. Bit heavy and a bit hot but good peace of mind for short hops around the city.

Against a car like that you're right, you need a modern litre bike to compete on an open stretch of road. Once you hit a bit of traffic the contest is over.

I was recently tailgated fairly aggressively by a Mercedes AMG on the long open 344 between Ban Bueng and Klaeng on my GSXR 600. I took it to around 200-220 for a few minutes and then decided to let him go. About 2 minutes later the traffic stacked up behind a truck and I blasted by him. It must have taken him 5 minutes to get round that mess, anyway I never saw him again.

It must loosen your teeth driving those things over the Bangkok potholes. Doesn't seem to stop them though - saw a Porsche 911 on my way home a few minutes ago. Lovely car (but overtook it on the 250!)

I read the three motorcycle track review, and I wonder about one thing... how much hours/days/months/kilometers experience you have on all motorcycle models.

It's too simple as you think, because you own a Kawasaki Ninja 250R you could race on a Honda CBR250R and actual can compare lap times. (sorry I not know if you own a Kawasaki Ninja 250R, but it's just an example). Motorcycle suspension is as personal as a fingerprint, I can tell that even in the MotoGP, two identical Honda race bikes have different suspension settings... completely fine-tuned to the rider.

I could be wrong, but from the way I read the post it seems that the compression dampening was set too soft. Not really surprising considering that a large expat was riding the bike rather than a Somchai of 1/2-2/3 the weight. I don't remember reading that preload was adjusted on the CBR, but I'd imagine that someone that spent what they did on the mods for the Ninja would have adjusted that setting and a 300km CBR may not have (and that could have been part of the issue also if the suspension was not allowed full travel).

Dave, I ask this as a serious question - have you looked at the 2 bikes side by side?

I'm not talking about the fairings or the gauge cluster, I mean the things that matter. The forks, the swingarm, the brakes, the shock. Have you compared them? I have, and it's no surprise that the reviewer rates the Ninja as far superior (I doubt 300% as well - but he was making a point) on the track to the CBR.

And let's not forget that "everyday riding" involves going around corners and stopping, not only overtaking Fino's from 3000 rpm in sixth gear.

Any update today, re the big bike offers and prices.....many thanks

Just a word of warning, just because it's at the show doesn't mean it's for sale in Thailand. They had a 2010 ZX6R there last year, wouldn't take a deposit and told me it would be here in a few months. It never arrived.

I'm hoping the Z1000 won't be the same story. I probably won't buy it anyway but I think it would do quite well at the 500k baht level. Until it's for sale in the showroom I'd take what the sales guys at the motor show tell you with a pinch of salt.

Inteesting to see Mbox's pics from the motorshow, with a CBR with touring screen. Looks very similiar to the 150's. Will probably head up on Satuday so will try to get info and more pics.

Judging by the frame, that IS the 150 isn't it? The 250 has the more tubular frame I thought?

Lovely bike, I've been toying with the idea of getting one since I sat on the one at last years BKK motor show. Just don't have enough time to ride to justify it at the moment. Congratulations!

Just asking here since i am dumb... I paid 104k for my bike... The ninja is 147k... How is that 30 percent? Good report though- hope the owner of the ninja was not upset with you... And that you are ok... Good luck this weekend...

I paid 139 for my Ninja - that's pretty close to 30%. It's gone up since then, same as the CBR seems to be increasing in price weekly. Only difference is Kawasaki did it over the table and Honda did it under the table. Who would you rather deal with for the next x years?

Good honest review and lends support to what a lot of us have been saying for a few months that the CBR is a good value commuter bike with some fairings attached - whereas the Ninja is more of a sportsbike. Not only the engine, but the whole package.

The high quality dealer support network from Kawasaki vs. the price gouging/incompetent servicing from APe Honda is the icing on the cake for me but I realize that's subjective - you pay your money and you take your choice. For some it's worth the money and for some it isn't - same as most things.

Once again, I should clarify that I'm not knocking the Honda I'm just calling a spade a spade. Sorry if that offends.