JonnyF

Unfortunately there is no local "Mae Hong Song loop". If you want twisty roads then you can head up to the Khao Yai national park for some good twisty roads on a one day trip (a couple of hours each way), or for a 3 day trip go further up to Petchabun - that's the next trip on my list and from what I've seen it's the closest thing you'll get to the famous loop although it's not exactly local - about 400 kms from where you are I think. 3 days would be about right for this trip if you want some time to explore while you're up there.

If you go South East from Lat Krabang you can head down to Rayong or down to Koh Chang. Much straighter roads on this trip but it's a decent weekend break if you want to get out of the city. If you leave early you can be on the ferry to Koh Chang before lunch - driving over the poorly maintained, super steep, super tight "twisties" on Koh Chang can be quite interesting dodging the tourists on rented scooters and Hayabusa's, pickup trucks etc!

Dave, I respect your opinion even though it is clearly biased (by your own admission) - but I've read a few reviews of the CBR now - I'd suggest you test ride it for a while before you trade in the Ninja, even as a proud "Honda Whore" you might end up regretting it.

AFAIK, this is the only head-to-head review that has been done. I've read a review or two where the person had ridden the Ninja and the past and was attempting to compare his then current ride to his memories, but I don't recall a real head to head.

There is that Japanese link that definitely contradicts the website posted today, as does the numbers and the video evidence...I'm just saying.

Plus I'm too tight to buy a 250. When I out-grow the Ninja Honda may actually have big bikes. And considering the limited time I get on my current bike (and lack of making time for a track day for accelerated learning) APe Honda has quite a bit of time to bring out those assumed new models!

I'm always a bit skeptical of videos with the bikes going head to head because there are too many variables, primarily the rider. But the bikes seem pretty close so there would be little point trading one for the other and taking the depreciation hit twice.

Yep a 600 might be the way to go. I'd love Honda to release the CBR600RR in Thailand although it seems that the litre bikes are much more popular over here so I'm guessing when they finally get round to it that the CBR1000 will be the first one available.

ABS is a great advancement IMO and I wish I had it on my bikes, but applying the front brake when you step on the rear is a step too far for me.

There's times I drag the rear brake a bit through a corner because I don't want the bike to "drop" into the corner in the same way it does as when you apply the front brake - and now it's going to do that anyway? No, Independent ABS would be the preferred option for me.

Um, actually you've got it backwards there mate-

The rear brake helps drop the bike into a corner while the front brake stands the bike up.

I suspect that's why the CBR gets the wobbles when you apply the rear brake in corners- the rear wants to lie down and the front wants to stand up. NOT A GOOD THING!

Then again, one should never be on the back brake that hard in a corner unless you are Valentino Rossi or Ben Spies and actually WANT to kick the back end out-

And that's why I prefer unlinked brakes.

Ride On!

Tony

Double post

ABS is a great advancement IMO and I wish I had it on my bikes, but applying the front brake when you step on the rear is a step too far for me.

There's times I drag the rear brake a bit through a corner because I don't want the bike to "drop" into the corner in the same way it does as when you apply the front brake - and now it's going to do that anyway? No, Independent ABS would be the preferred option for me.

Um, actually you've got it backwards there mate-

The rear brake helps drop the bike into a corner while the front brake stands the bike up.

I suspect that's why the CBR gets the wobbles when you apply the rear brake in corners- the rear wants to lie down and the front wants to stand up. NOT A GOOD THING!

Then again, one should never be on the back brake that hard in a corner unless you are Valentino Rossi or Ben Spies and actually WANT to kick the back end out-

And that's why I prefer unlinked brakes.

Ride On!

Tony

I'm talking about in wet/slippery conditions. Try taking a corner tight in the wet and applying the front brake too hard, there's not enough grip for the bike to stand up - the front will wash out and you'll go down on the low side. Happened to me many times off-road.

ABS is a great advancement IMO and I wish I had it on my bikes, but applying the front brake when you step on the rear is a step too far for me.

There's times I drag the rear brake a bit through a corner because I don't want the bike to "drop" into the corner in the same way it does as when you apply the front brake - and now it's going to do that anyway? No, Independent ABS would be the preferred option for me.

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycl...Ninja-250R.aspx

Interesting article, worth noting though that the US Ninja has a carb whereas the Thai Ninja has FI, which partially explains the difference in price between the two bikes in Thailand compared to the same price in the US.

Also interesting that even the carb'd Ninja wins the shootout - be interesting to see a shootout between the higher spec'd Thai Ninja vs. the CBR. The performance figures quoted pretty much back up what we saw in the video posted earlier, especially the comments re. the roll-on power which the Ninja seemed to dominate and is the least dependent on rider ability.

Any review that starts off with a waxing poetic about nostalgia kinda raises questions about the partiality of the review doesn't it?

Also in regards to the clutch it was noted that it "almost feels broken at first", to me implying that the user is used to much more stiff springs on his clutches and perhaps got used to it.

Fueling was noted as being really good on the CBR. As was gas milage.

It's also interesting that the times for 0-60 (0-100 km/h) are quite reversed from what Youtube and owners have offered. However considering they claim that the Ninja hits 110 MPH (176 km/h) shows that any timing equipment was grossly uncalibrated and I'd bet that the speedos were used. So unless both bikes were ran one after the other by an impartial rider and timed with a calibrated speedo I'm going to call bunk to that.

I do agree with the Combi-ABS though; however how often is a n00b going to get their bike over so far that they would just want the rear brake activated? And add in the fact that under controlled circumstances they were able to just get the Ninja down to CBR's stopping distance (and did they have the same problems that the owners in LOS complain about in regards to the rear brake) I think overall ABS is good for n00bs and touring...maybe not so good for the track.

I'll have to look at it again, but IIRC the Ninja and CBR both had about the same percentage of RPMs left in top gear when running 75 MPH (120 km/h)....

And if you can't hear the exhaust change on the Ninja 250 that pulls ahead of the CBR (and other Ninja!) you may want to visit a hearing aid store...and the CBR owner wasn't even that good at the holeshot..

Dave, I respect your opinion even though it is clearly biased (by your own admission) - but I've read a few reviews of the CBR now - I'd suggest you test ride it for a while before you trade in the Ninja, even as a proud "Honda Whore" you might end up regretting it.

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycl...Ninja-250R.aspx

Interesting article, worth noting though that the US Ninja has a carb whereas the Thai Ninja has FI, which partially explains the difference in price between the two bikes in Thailand compared to the same price in the US.

Also interesting that even the carb'd Ninja wins the shootout - be interesting to see a shootout between the higher spec'd Thai Ninja vs. the CBR. The performance figures quoted pretty much back up what we saw in the video posted earlier, especially the comments re. the roll-on power which the Ninja seemed to dominate and is the least dependent on rider ability.

I wouldn't mind going to this, Richard can you let us know where this is happening, times etc. Thanks...

I used these guys and they were excellent, although it is hard chrome - not sure if that's any good for what you want? They've got a website if you google them.

EASY FIX Hardchrome Plating

12/11 หมู่ 7 ซอยเพชรทองคำ ถนนบางขุนเทียน-

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10150

12/11 M.7 Soi Petch Thongkrum Bangkhuntien-Chay Talay Rd, Thakram, Bangkhuntien, Bangkok 10150

TEL & FAX : 02- 897- 2010-4

I'd happily pay extra for an experienced, competent and honest farang big bike mechanic. Just being able to explain the problem, agree an approximate price and an estimated completion date would be worth the extra money for me - especially if he was service minded and picked up the bike, returned it etc. which I would also be happy to pay for as long as it was somewhere near cost.

I know a good honest Thai guy here in BKK but it can still be frustrating explaining the problem, even with a Thai to help - if the "helper" doesn't know bikes or hasn't ridden the bike then it's tough to explain even if they speak the same language. He doesn't really make the extra effort to source parts either, it's usually just one call and then "mai mee".

If it was me then I'd get a Thai (would have to be 100% trustable i.e. close family) to front the business and do the complicated work behind the scenes. As other guys have said, successful farang run businesses tend to attract attention - BIB shakedowns, increased rent etc.

Garry's right - if he wants to ride a 999s in Thailand then good luck to him - these bikes aren't really designed for your average Thai "roads" with all the potholes, cracks, ruts, gaps etc but it's still good fun riding sportsbikes here (especially in the north) so you just have to accept that it might get damaged from time to time. No big deal just get it welded and move on. Won't cost much and as long as it's done well then it should be fine.

Yep, totally inconclusive. Rider skill much more of a factor in that situation as you can see with one bike winning one run and then the other bike winning by roughly the same distance on the next run. Just depends who got the jump. Same thing with the tests posted earlier in the thread, who knows what conditions the tests were done under? Who knows if the black Ninja was modded?

Only thing I noticed was that a couple of times the CBR got the jump and was passed late on by the Ninja. At that point there is very little skill involved as both riders will simply have it pinned, although again maybe the CBR rider shifted too early or too late half way down the straight.

The only thing conclusive is how pretty that white Ninja looks in comparison to the miniature VRF clone

looks, Ninjette

engine, Ninjette

dealers/aftermarket, Ninjette. Less dealers, but they know big bikes and are equipped for it. All dealers stock spareparts, and have new supply next day. Honda dealers know mopeds, but have a long way to go both on knowledge and spareparts.

handling, brakes, well they are cheap so any slight difference I wouldnt bother. Both come on not so good tyres

price and value for money

CBR250 def. 40% more for the Ninjette just isnt right

and as for CBR250 ABS, unbeatable value for money

just IMHO

Excellent summary, and kind of re-iterates my point about the CBR winning on value on the Ninja winning on everything else. I still think the attractive Tri-Color 150 is the way to go if you're looking for ultimate value - although the "value-for-money" guys don't seem to want to address this issue. How come the CBR150 thread regularly has guys reporting speeds of 135-140, and on the CBR250 thread there's guys saying they struggled to get it over 140? Something odd there. Anyone care to justify the extra 30k and cost of ownership?

On the subject of dealers, maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere then a lack of dealers is a problem. I'm 5 kms from Kawasaki HQ Rama 9 and it's the most professional outfit re. cars or bikes that I've seen here in LOS. A pleasure to deal with - air con lounge while you wait with free wifi & coffee, fixed prices, fully trained mechanics etc. Gone are the days when I had to send a Thai in to get the quote before I showed myself and long may that continue. The days of dealing with outfits like APe Honda won't be missed.

As I said before, the CBR is a good bike and good value for money but let's not get delusional about it's merits and shortcomings :jap:

Ninja is the better bike. The only question is how much better.

The fact that some people might be more comfortable on a lower performance, lower revving machine means absolutely nothing. if you put a dress on a pig, it's still a pig.

Oooohh, You are a sucker for punishment, aren't you Jonny?

It better be a lot better for the premium you paid. The only problem is that it isn't a lot better.

Feel free to subsidize Kawasaki Thailand.

Lower revving? What does that mean? Grunt comes from torque.

But I think I might order some new Ninja 250 graphics just to screw with your mind...(they're cool..)

Keep up Boobin, I think we've moved on from the discussion about which is better value, the CBR is.

Now we're talking about which is the better bike. Do you have any reason why the CBR is the better bike? (try to ignore price now, I know you you'll find it tough but stick with it). If both were offered to you free of charge which would you choose? Try to be honest now.

Do you prefer the lower speed? The lower hp? A single over a twin? The cheap looking fit and finish? The lack of a consistently priced dealer network? Which of these appeals to you the most?

PS Lower revving means the max RPM is lower (lower means "not as high", RPM stands for revolutions per minute). If you need more clarification let me know - always happy to help .

This thread sounds like a load of guys trying to convince themselves they were right to settle for second best because it saved them a few quid

If you wanted bang for buck why not just buy the CBR150? Not much difference in performance from the CBR250 what I see/hear. The 150 looks better as well.

After wondering how it's the second best I immediately seized upon the 'a few quid' which at today's exchange rate is a right around 1000 GBP; wonder who around here can have their butler flip over the cushions and get that out of the sofa?

And using reductio ad absurdum I propose that since there is not much difference in performance between a Chaly and a Wave 100, and there's not much difference between a Wave 100 a Wave 125, and there's not much difference between a Wave 125 and a Sonic, and there's not much difference between a Sonic and a CBR 150, there's no reason for you to have a CBR 150 when a Chaly will do!

Dave you know the same as I do the Ninja is the better bike. It's a twin, it has more hp, it's faster, it doesn't look like a Chinese copy of a real Honda. The only question is how much better.

The fact that some people might be more comfortable on a lower performance, lower revving machine means absolutely nothing. My g/f would be much more comfortable on a Wave than on a R1, so what? Some people prefer low cost and low performance, others pay more and get more. The quality of product remains the same. You prefer the Honda because it's a Honda, others prefer it because it's cheap. And yet the Ninja is still the better bike. Why not take off your Honda glasses for a minute or two and try to imagine what you'd be saying if Honda released a more powerful, better looking twin along the lines of the Ninja and in turn Kawasaki released a cheap looking single 2 years later. I guess you'd be singing the praises on Honda fit and finish, quality, specification, class leading technology etc. The ABS is an exception and Honda deserves credit for this option - but if you put a dress on a pig, it's still a pig.

And yes I would much prefer a Chaly to a CBR150. It has character and reminds me of the days when Honda were making bikes to put a smile on peoples faces. When I was racing motocross as a kid in the late 80's we all rode 2 stroke CR's and we used to say If you have haven't got a wing, you haven't got a prayer. Now? not so much. I don't hate Honda, I drive one to work every day. But their bikes in the last 5-6 years are a massive disappointment and this latest effort continues the trend (and maybe even takes it to a new level).

.

This thread sounds like a load of guys trying to convince themselves they were right to settle for second best because it saved them a few quid

If you wanted bang for buck why not just buy the CBR150? Not much difference in performance from the CBR250 what I see/hear. The 150 looks better as well.

Yep awesome skills on that video, although leaning a bike like that going through a 2 foot gap between the back of a bus and the front of a cement truck might not be such a great idea (especially with the girlfriend on the back) . Think I'll stick with the KSR for downtown

Riding a 1000cc in Bkk is a great way to exercise your body and also a perfect way to practise your balance and throttle control (and it is truly awesome hitting innercity Bangkok at 4.30 in the morning!).

I have never understood people saying a liter bike is too big for Thailand. I actually heard the above poster (Tony) stating the same before he bought himself a K6 and this leads me to believe most people saying something like this have never tried riding a 1000cc in either Bangkok or the rest of Thailand...

Whatever.. if you are used to a big bike anywhere else. Don't let the general "idea" of the Thai traffic situation intimidate your from buying an equally big bike here.

/Dunder

I wouldn't say a 1000cc is too big for Thailand, there's loads of long empty roads and I'd admit that sometimes my 600 feels a bit buzzy when you ride quick for long periods. I'd definitely say 1000cc was too big for Bangkok though, maybe not at 4.30am but I'm not normally riding at that time - even if I was I think the 600 would be quick enough.

The problem with big bikes in Bangkok is the turning circle is too wide to get through stationary traffic, doesn't matter how fit you are or how well you can control the clutch - the bars only turn so far and changing lanes between the front of one stationary car and the back of another can be a pain in the ass. Much easier on a smaller bike. Once you get out of Bangkok though, big bikes rule

In Bangkok they're a waste of time IMO. Too big, too heavy, too hot. Once you get out of Bangkok I think you can use the power if you choose the right time and I find having that extra acceleration to pull yourself away from the traffic, tailgating Fortuners etc. can sometimes make things safer. I used to get a bit frustrated on the 250, it's great in Bangkok but once the roads open up there's not enough there.

I've haven't ridden a litrebike since I've been here but my memory of riding friends 1000cc bikes was that they were just too much bike for me, I could ride them easily enough but I couldn't thrash them so I found them less fun than 600's. These were 2002-2004 models and from what I hear the very latest models are even more insane. A supersport 600 is just right for me, fast but not stupidly fast. For me it needs to be treated as a weekend toy though, I never use it during the week and to be honest I feel a bit stupid riding it through Bangkok traffic and parking it between Honda Waves at the 711.

The modern japanese sports bikes are pretty small now, in my opinion the perfect height for most of them is around 170-175. I'm about 170 and while I can only just flat foot my gsxr while stopped, I find that being on the short side makes it pretty comfortable while on the move due to the high pegs. As you don't weigh much but are on the short side, you'll probably find it a bit of a reach to the bars but if you sit properly and use your body to support your weight then it won't be uncomfortable once you get used to it.

I found it got more and more comfortable the more I rode it, not sure if my wrists got stronger or if I started using my body to support my weight more than my wrists but I can go 250 kms in one sitting (the range of the bike) with no discomfort. Chiang Mai to BKK in one day was a bit tiring but I think it would be on any bike, it's even tiring in a car. Having said that I'm around 70 kgs so maybe for bigger guys it might be less comfortable.

In terms of handling it's chalk and cheese really. I don't ride choppers often but when I do I am always a bit shocked by the way they (don't) turn or stop. I'm sure that would improve if I rode one more often and got used to it but to be honest I don't really want to (not a dig just my personal preference). 600's are fairly sedate below 7k rpm but be a bit careful above that. I'd also be a bit careful if you are getting a litre bike as your first sports bike, a modern 600 would probably be enough.

Any jap 600 will be OK for the test ride, just get the one that looks like it has been well maintained, not sure if that exists in Pattaya, never rented a bike there.

Good luck and report back once you've ridden it, be interesting to see how you like them.

Dave, you've just sold me on the hornet. Like I said, the noise it makes is amazing. A single cylinder just can't compare to that.

This is one of the things I didn't like about my ER6-F - it didn't have that 4-cylinder sports bike sound. My neighbour has a CB400 V-Tec and every time it goes by my house the exhaust note gives me a

Matt.

Same as me, I was so close to buying an ER6n but after looking at (hearing) various exhausts on YouTube I just didn't like the sound of any of them. That was one of a handful of reasons I never bought one but in truth it was a fairly major factor as the sound of the inline 4's once you get them screaming is a major part of the enjoyment for me, hence I bought the GSXR.

I've made the mistake of saying "I'll get used to it" etc. to try and make my head rule my heart when buying bikes (and cars) so many times and I always end up selling the sensible one to buy what I wanted in the first place. So just save yourself the hassle and buy the Hornet, awesome little bikes.

As long as it's not your sole mode of transport, it's no big deal if it needs a bit of TLC now and again.

I'd agree, either stolen or the owner has left Thailand and the book can't be found or transferred. Stay clear, loads of cheap ones around with a book and no problems.

Not seen a 250 in the flesh yet, but the one thing I didn't like about the 150 in my condo was the tiny windscreen, really narrow and an odd shape. Not surprised it's a bit windy at higher speeds but at least it's an easy fix, assuming the 250 screen is as bad as the 150 looked.

Got it up to 180kph by changing the sproket, air filter and muffler!

That's what the boys at Red Barron told my buddy when he was there today with his VFR.

So there's potential for that change you have in your pocket for not having bought something else ;-)

Or you can wring it's neck all day as is and it should keep on going

@Tiffer plaes tell us deatails of the sprocket, air filter and muffler u got? Thanks

Hold your horses Hili!!

(pardon the pun)

As per my post 180kmph is what the boys at Red Barron told my buddy

Btw they also reckon they uped the HP by 10

So I guess they're the people to ask.

Wish I could tell you straight of the bat but I wasn't there.

Had I been then I'd have got my calculator and note pad out ;-)

180 kph?

They upped the hp by 10? Is that 10hp or 10%? For a top speed of 180 I'm assuming you mean 10 hp which would be a massive 30% increase. Even then it would struggle to hit 180.

Looks like the Ninja has about 20% more peak hp.

I thought it would be a bit closer than that, although the torque of the CBR vs the power at higher rpm of the Ninja kind of reinforces what a few of us have been saying about the Ninja being more race orientated and the CBR being more suited to city riding/commuting. I guess the CBR will suit a lot of people with those characteristics, kind of like a faired (single cylinder) VTR250.