robsamui

What really worries me about all this **** is the possibility of a bloody-minded face-saving foot-stamping fit of petulance from who-ever in the top Thai Gov gets the most upset over it all.

Whilst all of the clowning is going on, with The Gov being laughed at and feeling more and more foolish, there are around 2 million full-time non-Asian expats living in Thailand according to Wikipedia (VERY out of date.)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there isn't some form of spiteful kick-back on this captive audience in the not too distant future . . . harsh visa changes or more-intensive scrutiny or tighter regulations with big fines attached for offenders.

The Gov has not only lost face with it's people and the international community, but its also blundered its way into losing a s***load of cash, too. Not a good situation for an ex-pat in Thailand to be in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Thailand

1 hour ago, Barefootknobby said:

I can’t believe people are even bothering commenting on this nonsense, if only they could swallow the comments and admit they haven’t got a clue would be a step in the right direction:-)

55555 - you must be new to Thailand! (I have to assume you're talking about The Thai administration, and not the people commenting here? Your post is ambiguous.)

Spot the impossibility in this sentence . . . "if only they could swallow the comments and admit they haven’t got a clue".

Any Thai, at any level from a roadsweeper to the Prime Minister would rather slice off body parts than admit that they are incompetent (or wrong about something). Loss of face is part of their genetic make up.

It's the main reason that Tland is in the s***t right now.

There's a whole load of tangled issues being all muddled together in the responses to this post . . . there's the ramifications of Covid and quarantine; there's the Thai government's lack of awareness that seasonal holidays have to be booked months in advance; there's the sudden weekly leaps and lurches and backtracks and changes in policy decisions about alcohol, bars, restaurants and "entertainment"; there's the muddling together of 'seasonal tourists' and 'quality tourists - which to the Thai eyes appear to be identical. What a mess!

Up until 2019 I had spent 15 years working in an associated role in the hospitality industry on Samui. I was constantly in and out of hotels (both budget and 5-star) restaurants, bars and clubs. And the following are my observations on tourists of all nationalities) and what they expect.

1. Until Covid there were two types of tourist - long term snowbirds and seasonal vacationers. The longtermers were typically male and working in construction-related industries. The 'seasonals' were here for an annual holiday, typically as a couple and quite often with children.

2. ALL in these two categories would undoubtedly have looked elsewhere if they knew there would be no alcohol available; the Thai attitude to alcohol is unable to understand or relate to the Western social expectations . . . Thai thinking is that alcohol causes social chaos and is dangerous.

3. Hotels were the only choice for seasonal tourists; often the same hotel year after year. Longtermers settled into a rented apartment/house for 4 or 6 months.

4. Seasonal tourists ate in their hotel for 50% of the time, compared to longtermers who used restaurants 100% of the time. Alcohol was regarded by both as an essential part of the food menu.

5. Both sets regarded "entertainment" as essential, and included alcohol. 

6. The Cost of Living in Thailand was an initial deciding factor. Although flights were expensive, this was offset by cheap food, drink and accommodation. For longtermers, an added bonus - if not the main reason -  was easily-available sex, accesses through the entertainment venues of bars, a-gogos and clubs.

SO - Thailand - wake up and decide what you want, then work towards it.

As things stand you don't know if you want seasonal, longtermers or once-a year jetsetters, and you are muddling them all together. Thailand is no longer cheap. It is now less expensive to vacation somewhere closer to home. And if you take 'entertainment' off the list and add 'no alcohol' to it, can't you see you are cutting your own throat?

If that's the case then all you will get is the Chinese, as they're the only raisins in the cake-mix who will get by with no entertainment or alcohol. But, then, why are you trying to drum up short-term seasonal business for this coming Christmas 2001 and the New Year? What a mess of indecision and confusion!

The way things are going you will lose all your Western tourist prospects, probably for a very long time . . . or is that the idea? If that's the case then you better let your citizens know, as they are depending on you for their living!

Is there any other country in the world where, when they try to make things simpler and easier, everything gets twice as  complicated and confusing as it was to begin with?

I think it's the genetic ability to put their foot in it every time they take a step. 

Astonishing.

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

They have been ranting about the wealthy tourists for years now. Not gonna happen. A dozen good reasons for that. They say they want rich tourists. What sacrifices are the ministers willing to make, to get them? Rich tourists like to spend money when they travel. And they cannot do that here, as they do not like getting taken for a ride. Most wealthy people are smart with their money. Thailand could be making a fortune on a 25% luxury tax. Instead of the 100% or more, which discourages most people from buying. How many people do you see in the luxury stores here? They are almost always completely empty. Inane. Beyond inane.

Some regressive nimwits do not understand basic economics. By reducing taxes you stimulate the economy. In addition, if Thailand reduces its punitive wine taxes and luxury taxes, they might be able to attract more of those rich tourists they keep droning on and on and on about. The rich are smart with their money. And not only do they enjoy a nice bottle of wine with dinner, their wives also love to spend alot of money on luxury goods while they vacation. Impossible here. Who would buy a Prada handbag for $11,700 here, when you can get it for $4,800 in most world capitals? Same goes for wine. Who would spend $700 for a bottle of wine they could get for $125 at home.

It is referred to as self sabotage, or idiotic policy. An extreme lack of creativity forces retrograde politicians to become overly dependent on import taxes. Dumb and dumber. 

Are they addressing critical issues, like the air and water quality, traffic safety, public transportation on the southern islands, rapid rail transport, and the lack of law enforcement? No. Nothing, and I mean less than zero is being done.

 

So, as a result of this gross negligence, they are only able to attract primarily lower to middle income Indian, Malaysian and Chinese tourists. 86% of tourism in 2019. The Western tourists have abandoned Thailand for the most part. A fraction of the number that used to come here, return.

Quantity over quality is never a good thing, unless you are selling one dollar items at a swap meet. It just lowers the quality of the experience for all.
 

Absolutely spot-on observations.

Having no realisation themselves of the disgraceful state of Thailand's " . . . air and water quality, traffic safety, public transportation on the southern islands, rapid rail transport, and the lack of law enforcement", the government just can't understand that the 'quality' tourists they so disparately long for now regard Thailand as a backward nation which has no knowledge of, or interest in, conservation and ecology.

Not to mention that Thailand is no longer cheap, cheerful and laid back any more, thus is losing-out at both ends of the tourist spectrum.

7 hours ago, Chad3000 said:

Malaysia recently sabotaged their retirement program.

 

Only the very wealthy that are not working, living off investments can live in Singapore due to visa restrictions. I wasn't aware Singapore even had a retirement program not linked to wealth and prior employment.

 

Thailand just doesn't get it.

 

1. People earning salary this large usually need to be managing something locally.

 

2. People making huge amounts of money from trading (assuming that even lasts) are not paid monthly as immigration absolutely demands to the day! They are paid quarterly, annually possible 3 5 10 years out on investments. Thailand wouldn't even know this bc it has such little high finance.

 

3. I don't think Hua Hin, Chaing Mai or Bangkok especially post covid are at all appealing to high rollers. That leaves scammy Phuket and Samui. Pattaya could remake itself but it will also need to change it's name.

 

4. Banks insure less than 1m thb but you want some smart guy to deposit 100m lol.

 

5. Can't own land only an overpriced box in the sky. Leases are not only worth little the longer the lease the more tempting it will for landlords to break them and raise rents.

 

6. There is little nice coastal property unlike the US.

 

8. How about no tax? It's not as though the wealthy here pay taxes.

 

9. Healthcare is far more expensive in Thailand for those from western countries on pensions. In US medicare picks up much if not all many hospital bills.

 

11. Covid jail. Get asymptomatic covid - go to hospital jail.

 

12. Until Thailand drops all formalities the human right to frrely travel is greatly chilled. Or...just stay in US. Of course, if you're Chinese you'll feel right at home.

 

13. It's hot. While it might beat out China, northern England for weather most days if the year there are plenty of great places it doesn't.

 

14. Owning toys is a hassle. Storing them, registering them and selling them. Boats are a huge hassle.

 

15. The instability of a feckless, authorization government. You'd think military a government would bring stability. It hasn't nor will it.

 

16. Like Myanmar I think wealthy people need to respond to the question of whether bringing in assets aids and abeits - is it good for the people?

 

17. Cheapness is vanishing fast - not do wealthy people care something this Y price not X. They look for value, experience.

 

18. Back to medical. It's very difficult to find a good dentist in Bangkok they are all thieves. We all know the legally sanctioned three tiered pricing system. Finally, it's not that great. Most dentist and doctors are not to western standard.

 

19. Taxes on imported goods. Car, watches, wine, scotch, any imported foodstuffs. Ridiculous.

 

20. immigration, DLT hassles. All the cards, forms, broken online registrations, Treated as a criminal. Every changing requirements. No, they wouldn't just get an agent and invariably will be forced to report multiple times during the year for some cranky middle aged goon.

 

22. Imagine when cops tell the multi millionaire he can't tend his own garden, work on his vintage car or wash his boat.

 

23. The roads are the most dangerous in the world.

 

24. The cops are not honest. While I've only been hassled once in 30 years we all know the stories. This is quite common.

 

25. Quality of life here will only decline. This is brought on faster and harder by the authoritarian government, the cronyism, corruption. I have said for years Thailand is headed towards becoming the Philippines not Singapore. It is not a prosperous place nor will it be in coming decades. It's no longer a happy place either.

 

26. What's the draw? What EXACTLY is the government selling?? I mean really...

 

27. Back to land. Can't own it despite not being able to take it out if the country. Even if law written into Royal Gazette we know the reality and trustworthiness of Thailand. It will be recinded.

 

28. Back to visas. Of course no citizenship or even PR mentioned. We all know a ten year visa is just a one year visa which will function like any other O extension. This is absolutely nothing.

 

29. Get married? Better not. Money you make abroad which has nothing to do with the new wife is half hers despite not even having a visa to visit the country.

 

30. Destruction of environment. Trash is everywhere and on every shore. Plastic. No hope for this one.

 

Bonus: Endless corruption. Remember the old b500 departure tax that wasn't part of the airport fees? It was incorporated into the ticket. Now, we have another and the balls here is that no one knows what it's for. Ironically, for tourism. My point, this stuff is endless.

 

Bonus: The government is just <deleted> and will be so forever. It's one thing if you're running from an even worse despotism or corrupt nation. But if not...why be in the middle of this nonsense?

 

Maybe the government should ask those already here - would any expat currently here given 100m stay? Then they can abandon this silly project, go to Thong Lor and enjoy themselves.

EXPAND and READ Chad3000's quoted post first . . . .
Yep - there's not much here to disagree with - it's a catalogue of Thai greed, incompetency and heavy-handed mismanagement.

Thailand's government over past years, has never had to do any real thinking, managing or planning. Before the year 2000 it just muddled along. The immigration system in particular was wonderfully hit and miss - I lived on Koh Samui for over 5 years simply by getting one more double-entry (6 month) tourist visa after another, end-to-end, before anyone noticed.

But, sometime in the mid 2000s, everything changed. An unpleasant arrogance crept into the 'management' of foreigners, an attitude that farangs needed to be kept in their place. The result was that entry requirements became stricter and more elaborate, paperwork became extensive and bureaucracy took over from the former laid-back interaction between immigration staff and foreigners.

Rudyard Kipling said that you can tell the difference between an established nation and a developing one by its bureaucracy - mature nations have discovered what works already and streamlined everything, whereas emerging nations think that excessive paperwork and regulations are a sign of success and status.

Meaning that when farangs became a serious cash crop, at the turn of the 2000s, Thailand didn't have a clue what to do about it or how to handle them.  It began to blunder about with more rules and regulations, contradictory and confusing, hoping to hide incompetence and blind stupidity with more and more paperwork and regulations, until the mess today is listed in Chad3000's distressing post above.

In a nutshell, it's a perfect example of how an arrogant and not very smart nation can completely destroy almost 20% of its income in just a few short years. And it'll take a lot longer than that to get back on track again - if ever.

Just a couple, sitting around doing nothing much, on the coast of Samui.- mainly in the same place while the world goes by. If you sit in one place long enough, all the world goes past.