ManInSurat

I've got a FAR better idea for the new recruitment process. Will all British citizens in Thailand report to the British Club tomorrow morning about 11am where we will play a large game of British Bulldogs to sort this out. Then get hopelessly drunk and trash the city (well, when in Rome and all that).

There, sorted!!

Sorry draftvader, but I think you really do not understand what the phrase - "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." - actually means.

It means when visiting another place and you encounter some unusual customs as part of their culture you should try those customs and try to assimilate. It does not mean, when in Rome do what ever you want.

The last time I checked, in cities all over Thailand, the Thais tend not to get hammered and trash the city. We, the British, have the unenviable global reputation for doing that, perpetuated by football hooliganism or "the English disease" as it was known. Therefore, if you were to see a Brit out on the street-front at 7 a.m., on bended knees, wai-ing to a Buddhist monk and offering alms, or a Thai in the UK, downing 10 pints of lager in 3 hours and then urinating on the side of a coin-operated lavatory before getting in a fight and bringing charges against the police officer that manhandles him into the police wagon, then you could use the phrase "when in Rome" and all that!

Sorry to be a pedant, but that is the real meaning of the saying.

Back on topic, I definitely think Mr. Quayle has received some very unfair criticism in this thread, based solely on the fact of the job he did. I wonder if the election of the new man to fill this job will attract such unecessary criticisms also! I bet it will!

Thai lady woman. Let's have a bit of equality here.

The only foreigners( those whose first language is English) who I hear refer to Thai girls/women as "Ladies' are those who have normally just arrived in Thailand and for some reason (normally frequenting girlie bars too often and taking on board the staff's view of themselves and their pseudo inflated status ) forget themselves and call Thai females 'ladies'.

Funnily, men that refer to females that they have met outside of a bar environment, more often than not, refer to young females as' girls' and those older as 'women'. More apt, I'd say.

Those that continue to call Thai females 'ladies' are usually males who like to defend 'poor hard done by working girls', in the hope that it will distance them from the rest of the males who come to take advantage of these innocents, who then, more often than not, fleece their champion.

Lady Di was a Lady and I'm sure that Thai society has their equivalents.

regards

Bojo

What utter drivel and rubbish!

Nearly ALL of the cases I use the word "lady" in, I am really saying "female person." I am not saying "female aristocrat with airs and graces, and a penchant for running through fields and fanwing over Mr. Darcy". This is purely both of your wrong assumptions that this is what other people mean.

The fact you sit there, looking down at other people with disdain, be they tourists or ex-pats - new to or familiar with Thailand, for using a common and normal word for identifying a member of the female sex, says MUCH more about you two and tells me all I'll ever need to know about you. I know nothing I say will stop you in your crusades to commandeer the English language so you can fulfill your own little silly agendas, but I'm going to try and articulate this anyway.

I consider myself resonably articulate, with a good understanding of the English language. Where I grew up in London, the female toilet is called "the ladies'", as are changing rooms, and if a friend was recounting a story to me and uses the phrase "and there was this lady there" - I would not suddenly start imagining billowing ball gowns, courtseys and pearls. What you say is purely the connotations you have attached to the word based on how you learned to use it - which by the sounds of it was circa 1850's in a Dickens novel. Words evolve. Live. With. It.

Not only that, a word like "lady" and its intended meaning by the user are made much more obvious by context. "Lady Diana attended the state banquet" being a perfect example of that for the image you are trying to promote for the word, "ladylike" being another. Now use the word in the following context - ladies perfume, ladies toilet, ladies night, hel_l even the song "Lay Lady Lay", I'm pretty sure Bob Dylan was not talking about some British aristocrat laying across his big brass bed. It's all context and what it means to the person using it and how THEY mean it and us as native English speakers should try and make ourself aware of the evolution and modern day meaning of words in our own language, so we don't end up making stupid assumptions and end up sounding like we've wandered out of George Orwell's time machine.

If you see the context that the people in this thread were using lady in, which you were so quick to criticize, you will see they mean "female person".

Americans use the words woman, girl, chick, whatever in very many varying ways to the British, but I can understand what they are saying, because of context! It's actually very easy.

Accept the fact that words can mean different things to different people. Not everyone, thankfully, has to think and talk like you do and you should stop mentally or openly criticising people for using words in ways that aren't necessarily intended in the way YOU think they are. If you'd singled me out for criticism in a bar for something like that, you would not have had a friendly response. Try doing that the next time you're in some dive and not protected by the anonimity of an online forum! I bet you don't and never will.

For you to suggest that visiting English-speaking tourists to Thailand try to distance themself from the stigmas attached to the women they associate with in bars by referring to them as "ladies" is probably one of the more ludicrous statements I've heard in a while. This is TV, I have heard a LOT.

Something tells me you watch far too much Little Britain.

Anyway, back on topic.

I completely agree with all the bribery assumptions. This has to be a case where the BiB were motivated to act purely by some financial persuasion. Even with a court-ordered writ from the UK/The Hague in your hand at the local Thai copshop, I don't imagine the BiB rushing to help you, especially as you're trying to take away a child from a Thai mother, who has not broken any law in Thailand. However, this is just an assumption and conjecture on my part, not all the exact facts are available to us and we weren't there. There's no way to know for sure, other than by speaking to the man involved in the case.

If what the article says - about the mother willing to part with her son on the proviso they can have a jolly in a 5* resort - is true, she seems like a really nasty piece of work. I have children and the unconditional love I feel for them would make me fight to the very end in a scenario such as this.

If this allegation in the article is true, I think we can safely say the boy is better off with his father.

Anyway, I'm off to take a photo of myself with a friend's Porsche to see if I can irritate some Thai golddiggers I randomly get unsolicited Skype messages from!

nice pic, the city looks so empty lol where is everyone? I need a gaming laptop for next year, what brand do you recommend? Im wondering if I should run this game on high or on low, I'll have to see how smooth it is on both.

Lol, in FFXIV, when you have a task or game-enforced quest, you are taken into what's called an "instance", which you can see referred to in the textbox of the second pic. It's a great improvement on FFXI, as although with XI you could be alone in an CS (cutscene), when actually undertaking a specific city-based quest, all other PCs (player characters) would be there too. And if it's a Sunday/Saturday and the server's overloaded, getting something done could be a real pain.

With XIV, when you enter an instance, all the other PCs are removed from the instance, so it's just you and the quest, you can't leave the area until you finish doing what the quest needs to proceed, or you choose to leave the instance. I like it personally. Be aware that quests or as they are known in XIV - "guildleves" - out in the wild (mob populated areas) you are not taken into instances, but only you can attack the mobs relevant to your current guildleve. A major pet peeve of mine from XI what that when looking for mobs for a quest/mission, other people could come along and take them or maybe even the mob you were after was being camped by people/RMT for some reason. Anyway, I'm very pleased they fixed it this way.

In the closed and open betas, there were a lot of people there. As I've been working nearly all of today I haven't had a real chance to see how many other players there are on my server, but I anticipate it being a lot. Also bear in mind in LOS, we're only 2hrs behing JP, who will definitely be more numerous than their EU/US counterparts - it being more than a game in JP and more like a cult! If I had to guesstimate about server populations, I'd imagine them being high to start with 3000-4000 per server, reducing to a more stable 1500-2000, as the novelty gamers or those that might be disappointed leave. This is just mere speculation based on my experience with XI.

I've also done some looking around at the Wikis popping up for XIV and they are already numeours and full of good info to help you proceed. As everyone knows, a FF game without a Wiki these days, is virtually pointless if you're looking to progress to end game status.

A good one I'll be using is FFXIV Core Wiki which is still a work in progress, but is pretty comprehensive.

This site here is good for maps of all of the FFXIV world - FFXIV Maps.

Initially I've chosen to be a gladiator (basically a Paladin) as they appear to be one of the jobs that will be in high demand as it appears to be the only tank in the game at the moment until more jobs are made available.

Be aware, during my time playing the beta, if you're a quick learner or you've got experience with XI, like me, you sometimes really take your job as far as it can go until new quests/guildleves are available to you. You are only allowed a certain amount of guildleves every 48 hours, then you have to wait. That's real time, not in-game time. Yes you can go out and grind your job, but as you will see guildleves are a fantastic way to level up quickly. I think it's good as you are forced to try other jobs. Also, with XIV you don't change your job like you would have with XI. To change job now, all you have to do it change the weapon you are holding and you're then on that job. I really like that too, as you can change jobs out in the field, face-to-face with a mob if necessary and as the situation dictates.

With regards to graphics settings for me, I had to turn everything down to low, as I said before, my VGA is borderline low-end and only just manages to run. I forgot exactly what I got on the benchmark, but I remember it being slightly above 1000. I've put a few baht away for a new VGA, so when I come back from holiday, I'll order online from Thanni, then I should be fine. I run a desktop, with 12GB of RAM and x64, so my CPU is more than capable of dealing with the CPU aspect of running the game. As you said yourself, just run it and see what you find best for your setup.

With regard to your lappy, well, if you've really got the opportunity and are very flush with money - Alienware - hands down. They're ridiculously exspensive for a good reason. I've seen/tested a couple on my odd trips to America and they're special.

Bar that, I personally would by global brand (basically not VZIO or any of the Thai brands you see) - I have an Acer lappy, but it's not a gaming unit. Just for work on the move. I'll be honest here and say that I'm not very knowledgable about gaming laptops, so perhaps someone else can help DQ with some suggestions.

I'm really excited about playing as I really really enjoyed the beta stage. I can easily see why many will be put off it, it's quite a complicated game. I'd say it's one of the hardest RPGs I've ever played, but that is a pure challenge to me. The complication and difficulty aspect are the very reasons why I play it. It's got amazing longevity and MOST importantly it's a much better use of my spare time than getting sweaty and hammered in the local soi bar/disco and doing eternally regrettable things. Call me a nerd, call me sad, but that's how I like to while away some of my "my time".

Nice to see I have some likeminded TVers here. Maybe some of us should band together and get a TV linkshell going.

Anyway, I'm getting WAY ahead of myself, it only came out today on general release! EPIC game!

Well I'm very pleased to say that igxe, delivered my CD key today and I got into the game. Created my character (which I was allowed to take over from the beta) and I had a quick walk through Ul'dah (one of the city-states in FFXIV).

I'm going away on holiday to Koh Lanta in the next few days, so I won't be online playing, but I'll be playing again fulltime (or as long as work allows) onwards from the 11th Oct, for those that would like to come and say hello.

Connection wise, it's absolutely fine, but I do need to update my VGA card, which is on the lower end limit for the game anyway. I needed an excuse to upgrade it and this is it. I'm currently using an Nvidia GeForce 9400GT and it doesn't quite cut the mustard when I move around. It jumps a bit, which has nothing to do with lag.

I'm going to get a ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB DDR5, probably from Thanni or elsewhere.

Anyway, here's some screens for you of my mini-adventure around FFXIV, you have to admit, it does look very nice! Maybe see some of you there.

Just to clarify, I'm "Eldarion Telcontar", I'm on Wuati server and my main city is Ul'dah.

For those of you that want to play and want to do it cheap just follow the way I did it above. Cost me $49.99 all in all.

+1

- I am with 3BB and it is up and down like a F***g YoYo

Just a quick update to this, since I wrote that rant (justified I think!) the True connection has been like an absolute dream. In total for 2 months usage I have 1 outage and 2 severe slowdowns. A gold star service if ever there was on in LOS!

In the intervening period I commented on another thread somewhere in the internet forum saying that I really think it's down to: location, location, location.

There seems to be people from all ISPs (True included) that are having problems from all over the country, even from the same cities, but in different parts.

All I can comment on is personal experience and from a viewpoint of living and working in Surat Thani.

Therefore, I have two words for you if you're in my area, or if you're looking for an alternative that may save you your hair and sanity : TRUE ONLINE!

They're aeons ahead of 3BB/TOT/et al.

I've done enough testing on it now and I can max out the connection and download upto ~1800 kbps, which I am VERY satisfied with.

Conversely I cannot even use my 16Mb 3BB after 3am. I've given up trying now. I'm going to see out my contract and get out of it as painlessly as possible, which seeing how difficult getting out of contracts is here, is probably akin to being on the receiving end of a randy elephant!

Maybe a bit of tea money in the 3BB boss' pocket might sweeten the deal. We shall see. I'll try and report back about my "getting-out-of-year-contract shenanigans".

Anyway, it cost me a fortune to find out True were the winners, but the internet is integral to me making a living. I had to bite the bullet or end up a farang khee nok and what would the neighbours say, eh?

Perhaps this way, some of you can load the gun yourselves instead of biting any bullets.

Mixed metaphors end here!

Lucky you! Let us know how the game is. I'm subscribing to WoW currently and I'm thinking of switching to another mmo. This might just be the one

Yeah, will do Peter.

I played FFXI intermittently for 5-6 years and I managed to not get over-addicted, can take your whole life away if you're not careful. I just play it to wind down. Beats propping up the bar, well anywhere!

What I think would win out between a battle of WoW and FFXIV now (not FFXI) for me personally is that you'll be on a level playing field with everybody else playing the game. So as the community learns you learn, all at the same time.

It can be quite daunting when you enter an MMO and the majority of players, even casuals are so far ahead of you, that the prospects of getting into a good guild/team whatever is virtually nil.

No doubt, with FFXIV there's a sharp learning curve, but XI and XIV have so much to do in them, you'll constantly find new things to do.

As I said, I played the closed and open betas and there's a lot that needs fixing/ironing out, but as a package, I'd say they're pretty awesome. I really do hope they fixed the menu system as it was a bit laborious before. SquareEnix can sometime be a little slow to take things on board, but that's a major issue that I reckon will be dealth with first.

Anyway, as they say, the proof is in the pudding.

I expect to be in on 1st Oct.

I'll be on Wuati server if any of you wanna pop along and say hello! I'll probably be playing as "Eldarion Telcontar" (that's right this Final Fantasy MMO lets you even have surnames!)

Happy Gaming All! :jap:

edit: double post

Ok, here's a fantastic update for all of you interested in this game. I managed to get everything for $49.99, within Thailand all paid and done. Admittedly I'll have to wait until the 30th for the release of the Standard Edition, but I'm willing to wait a couple of days for a potential saving of $100 on Amazon prices.

Well what I have done is the following, the .ISO of the game is out and can be found in torrent format. I won't post it here so as not to contravene ThaiVisa's rules.

Anyway, you can download the torrent of the RETAIL game, and then just buy the CD Key from igxe.com or offgamers.com I've been using IGXE and Offgamers for a while, about 3 years. They both deliver. They'll send a scanned/photographed copy of the CD key of the new game they have opened in their offices. You then own that game.

I have already ordered mine, it cost $49.99 for the keys of the Standard Edition version, they are sending me key via email on 30th, I spoke to them on the phone to confirm.

Before any of you bust a blood vessel, if done in the right order you are not breaking any laws here. You are perfectly allowed to make a copy of the game you own for your own purposes - backup, a copy to travel with, whatever. Seeing as I have paid for my keys, I own the game. Therefore I am allowed to make a copy of it, which I have acquired by downloading the torrent.

Admittedly, you do not get the retail copy of the game in your hand. They will not ship it. Well they might for an extra fee. I have never bothered. This is exactly the same method I used to get around FFXI's problems when I played that. The only stipulation here is that you have to wait for the Standard Edition as neither of those reputable companies offer the CE version to buy.

The torrent is 4GB and after being installed it will auto-update, with Square's own updater. It took about 2 hours for me download the whole torrent (i have a pretty fast connection, can download at 1400kbps during the day and more at night so your download may be slower.)

With the retail DVD-ROM .ISO downloaded and in your possession, you can then use Daemon Tools to mount it, install it and update.

Then enter the scanned/copied/photographed CD key into your SquareEnix account (which all players have to get) you get from the supplier and use this and off you go!

By far the cheapest way of doing it I could find and the least amount of hassle.

If any of you need the FFXIV torrent let me know and I'll give you the info in a PM.

Just incase none of you are aware, FFXIV is a subscription MMO. It costs $12.99 per month, per character to play, which is paid for using a myriad of methods on the SquareEnix account management page. Yes they changed the payment method from the awful system they have with FFXI. Thank god. The way they have it setup now, you can pay with CC, Paypal, Moneybookers and loads of other options, which is a real leap forward for SqaureEnix.

Anyway, there's an option if you want to get the game as fast as everyone else, playing the Standard Edition.

I'll pop back when I actually have set everything up and am playing the game, in a few days.

Cheers.

Oh and negreanu I played the open beta for a while and the menus are clunky, but I definitely expect them to fix that. The graphics are amazing and the gameplay is basically limitless.

I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks guys, I'll try your suggestions and see if they have it.

I've done lots of searching and I really cannot seem to find any online PC game retailers in Thailand that are stocking this.

The Collector's Edition has already been released worldwide and the regular relase is set for 30th September.

I'd love to order it from within Thailand and definitely online as I'm down in Surat Thani and won't be able to get up to Krung Thep for a while.

If anyone can point me in the right direction I would be eternally grateful.

I've looked at importing it with Amazon, but they're overall charges bring it up to $119, considering the game itself is $49.99, that is quite simply ridiculous. The CE was $150 with importing costs! Yeah, I'm never paying $150 for a PC game, no matter how brilliant it looks.

Keeps me slightly sane on the longer rainy nights.

I played the beta and even though the menu is clunky, I'm an ardent XI player and am very familiar with it. It looks simply stunning.

Thanks in advance to all.

If you are happy with an old operating system why not an old browser?

I think the answer to that is quite simple Gary.

IEs all the way from 6-8 have been proven to be susceptible to some serious basic security flaws, that have, over time, come to light and then been fixed. We live in a world, where the enemy, those trying to gain access to our systems in the myriad of ways they have, are becoming much more advanced and numerous than ever before. I see IE now as a very weak link on any of my units and try to avoid using it for the reason I have just stated. I see it only as a matter of time before some major security flaw is uncovered in IE9. Maybe I'm prejudiced against MS, that's my prerogative. I think it's in part influenced by the media and IT industry experts.

I think Firefox is the safest browser out there, from a perspective of sustained personal use. This again is pesonal opinion, as were my previous posts.

As far as an OS is concerned, for work it is imperative I use XP, simply owing to the programs I use and their compatability with this OS. I'd much rather use Linux, but that is not currently an option. Of all the permutations of MS OSes, I personally believe that XP has had enough time and phases to get to stage where it's very very hard to compromise its security if you computer usage is secure. Yes there was a time when XP SP3 hadn't been invented yet, but at that stage in my working history, the use of a computer was not as integral to the way I work now.

If work were not a factor in why I use the OS I do, I'd still stick with XP SP3, as I did try to migrate to Vista on launch, stupidly following all the hype surrounding it and it was the biggest disaster, workwise and personally, I have ever had. It was CPU hungry, very clunky, and don't even get me started on the yellow security level checks and authorizations or even it's overall security problems. It was like MS sat aroud and tried to create the most inefficient OS they could. The way the world received it was evident that it was a failure. It is my understanding that Vista is the progenitor to 7. I for one will be waiting for several phases and SPs until I take it up full time and try and integrate the way my business works into it.

In several years, I've never been infected nor has by work been compromised playing by these rules and I think the advice I have take from many of the IT industry experts - who have influenced a lot of the decisions I make - has been excellent. They definitely are saying stay away from Windows 7 for the moment!

Those in the positions of power in the Telcos care not a jot for their subscribership, they seem to actively want to keep us in the dark ages. Ironically we are the many that ensure their pockets get ever fatter and bulging and their millionaire lifestyles stay just that way. Yet they keep hitting us with sticks!

I totally agree with Khun Boonyachai when he says Thailand has lost a very important opportunity here. However, is he really surprised to see this happen? I highly doubt it. It's not like their aren't many many precedents for this type of corporate behaviour in Thailand.

People opine in this forum that Thailand is moving forward, I present this fiasco as hard evidence that it really is not. It is exactly these types of decisions and regressive corporate behaviour that needs to be eradicated from Thailand's corporate culture. Only then will progression of any kind become apparent.

I live in, ever diminuishing hope, that I will see this in my lifetime.

Highly disgruntled of Surat Thani!

I don't think so. I think most MSIE users are MSIE users because "it's there" and they either don't care enough to download a better browser or they don't know how. Anyone who knows and cares will download and install a better browser than this POS.

Look at the stats. 90% of the MSIE browsers registered are MSIE 6 or older.

Maybe I didn't articulate what I meant very well, so sorry for that.

I meant exactly what you said, IE has such a large market share owing to the fact that "it's there" as you put it and the majority will not look elsewhere or even know that other browsers exist.

I think my main point is that many will not get to try out IE9 on a long-term basis (to get a real feel for it) as they're on XP SP3 (or other vesions) which, I personally believe and has been shown elsewhere has very good security settings by comparison.

I for one do not see IE9 as an incentive for me to get and try Windows 7, until 7 is at a point where it has gone through all the permutations it needs to be as security-tight as it can be.

I personally use Firefox, and it's absolutely perfect for me.

Hi Martin, what's up mate?

... whole thing came to over 70,000 THB and was delivered straight to my door 3 days later with no complications at all.

Are you building space shuttles or what?

Martin

Haha, no mate!

I just needed, for work, the very best CPU, motherboard, everything I could afford, as it would definitely pay off in the long rong.

I can give you a rundown of what I ordered if you like:

1 x Intel Core i7 860 2.8GHz 4C/8T 4x 256KB L2 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 CPU Retail

1 x ASUS "Rampage II GENE" Intel X58/ICH10R Chipset Mainboard for Intel LGA 1366 CPU Retail

2 x G.SKILL F3-12800CL8T RM Series 6GB (3x 2GB) DDR3-1600 240-Pin CL8 RAM Retail

1 x Neolution XLD-8013 ATX Mid Tower Case w/ 550w Power Supply Retail

2 x Western Digital 500GB GP 7200RPM 32MB Cache S-ATA II Hard Disk Drive Model "WD5000AADS" OEM

1 x Spark GeForce 9400GT OC600 LP 1GB DDR2 128-bit HDTV DVI PCIe 2.0 Retail

1 x LG GH22NS 22x22 DVD Writer w/ 10x10 DL 12x DVD-RAM S-ATA OEM

1 x DGET "DG-1000U" 1000VA 400W Intelligence UPS Retail

1 x Cooler Master "Hyper 212 Plus" CPU Fan/Heatsink for AMD & Intel Retail

There was also an SSD, that I ordered at the same time, and quite a few more ram sticks (as I operate on x64), and another VGA card, and all in all it was over 70k! This was about a year ago though, so the prices for most of these things would have come down by now!

You can also see in that list I originally ordered the wrong size CPU for the motherboard, and I needed to keep the motherboard so I had to sell that on and get the right 1366 CPU, what a mistake to make! That's what I was talking about before.

I'm very very happy though with it and all the parts, it's been a godsend.

I'm looking at building another one, this time using a newer motherboard and the new Intel "hexacore" technology, but each machine I try to build myself, keeps coming out at very very silly money, way over 100k. I find it real fun though putting them together! I'm a major geek, what can I say.

Sorry to have gone a bit off topic here!

Is it me or does there seem to be a marked increase in ATM/bank related robberies by farangs in Thailand in recent months?

I can think of at least 5 or 6 recent examples.

<deleted> is going on? How can these people fail to realise they're in a country with a much less desirable penal system than in their countries of origin? And that a simple trip to their embassy in this time of desperation/crisis might alleviate a lot of their problems.

I really just don't get it at all. I appreciate that people will does some strange and desperate things for money, most of the examples by farangs I can think of border on, or are firmly in the realms of insanity.

Amusing for the law-abiding populace none-the-less.

I can also personally vouch for Thanni.com and Jedicool.com.

Both excellent, decent prices, a good range of stock (maybe a little behind other countries) and very efficient.

I've bought a full unit I designed my self from component parts on Thanni.com, whole thing came to over 70,000 THB and was delivered straight to my door 3 days later with no complications at all.

Jedicool are a little strange in the way that they operate, in that I got absolutely no confirmation back from them that my order was on the way, although it came 4 days later. They're a little more basic, as is their site, but again they have a decent range of stock.

One thing I can say of Thanni, is that make sure you're ordering exactly what you need. I mis-ordered the processor for the unit I put together myself, getting a wrong size CPU for my motherboard and they would not replace it. I was a little disappointed by this, but I did manange to sell it on for more-or-less the same price as I bought it. Lesson learned there.

So I'd personally recommend these two.

Best of luck.

"Oh, and by the way: it's true that Internet Explorer 9 will not run on Windows XP."

I really don't like the throwaway line in this article.

Like that's not a problem, it's a major problem IMO.

I'd say the majority of the world using an MS OS will be on XP SP3 and will be staying on it for a while to come until, security-wise, 7 is better and has reached a service pack level that all are satisfied with. Vista is just a farce of an OS, so I won't even go into that.

For those reasons I'll not be finding out how IE9 is and I can safely say, it really does not bother me in the slightest. I've seen plenty of reviews and videos of IE9 to see it is not life-changing.

If you're not using Firefox or Chrome, then there's something wrong with you anyway. And yes I know how much of the market-share MS has, which is simply due to the fact that Chrome and Firefox does not come as standard with an MS OS for very obvious reasons.

I have both 16down/1up with 3BB and True in 2 separate properties, here's the daily results I can get with both.

N.B. Both houses are very close to one another (under 1km) and I'm not entirely sure where the local exchanges are for either service, but seeing as Surat Thani is not that massive, I would say it's under 4km.

3BB - Utterly awful. Within Thailand and for international traffic, I get restricted speeds basically all day. Using HTTP downloading with Rapidshare, in conjunction with a download manager on my desktop, I rarely get speeds of over 300kbps, actually I never get those speeds. 3 years ago, when I was on the 5down/1up Premier service from Maxnet (when they weren't yet 3BB) I used to be able to max out, using the same way to test downloading speed. So over 500kbps, basically with an upper limit of ~575kbps. I was really pleased with that, then it just died. FTP is also terrible on this connection.

True - Utterly fantastic. Using the same downloading methods, during the day i'm at around 1450kbps, and say from 11pm onwards, I'm way over 1700kbps, ocasionally reaching 1800kbps. Sufficed to say I'm utterly thrilled with being able to get a 700MB avi in under 5 mins at night. I think of a film, go fix myself a drink and it's ready. In all seriousness for my work it's a godsend.

Fastest download speed I've ever had (albeit momentarily) - ~1990kbps. True 16down/1up in Surat Thani. Winner!

Can't wait to have a go on the VDSLs that lomatopo is referring too, they look really good. Will take a few years for them to reach Surat I would imagine.

As the OP will know I've made umpteen posts about this.

I have both 3BB 16Mb in my first house and True 16Mb in my other house (which I rent solely for the purpose of having True.)

I've had 3BB for 4 years, for the first year it was acceptable, for the last 3 years it has been totally unacceptable. I had no alternative, so I had to stick with it. I work full time on the internet. It is 100% integral to the work I do. I can safely say, due to the constant degradation of 3BB's line to my house over this period, I lost around $100k in the 3 year period through lost earnings. Ok, I admit, I chose to live in Thailand, I chose to live in Surat Thani, I chose to love a Thai, I chose to love Thailand, I could have moved back home, I could have moved anywhere else with a decent constant connection - but nothing overrides the fact that 3BB have severely let me down.

It's not just the loss of earnings, I can take that on the chin. It's how 3BB have acted over the period until their service has reached a stage where it's unusable. I've had them over numerous times, they've changed the lines on MORE than one ocassion. They constantly blame me, my equipment and my set up in my office at home for the poor and faulty service I get. I'd like to consider myself pretty much an expert in setting up a small office network, so I know they're just lying to me to save face. I'd much prefer it if they'd just admit they, as a company, cannot provide the services they advertise in my area. I'd have moved elsewhere ages ago. I'm kicking myself now for not having done so. This is just my opinion, but I think they are an utterly awful ISP. They cannot provide the services and speeds they offer countrywide. Ok, they may have OK service in isolated pockets around the country, but from what I read here on TV, on the whole they are shockingly bad.

I see 3BB as a very corrupt company, with the heads pocketing all the money and leaving little or nothing at all to spend on the infrastructure and improving/repairing the overall itegrity of it. If they bothered to actually try to use the vast sums of money they get making it even slightly better, it'd save them more headaches. However the fat cats at the top do not have to answer the phones, or man the desks in the offices, those are the people I feel really sorry for. They have to face the brunt of the anger over the poor quality of service.

What I would REALLY love to know, is how the Thais view it. Are there enough Thai people out there that would call in to complain, or go into their local office and make a fuss? As we all know you shouldn't really be seen to make a fuss in public places. I don't see it happen very often by the indigenous population here. I view the Thai populace as casual internet users, compared to the farangs that are permanently resident who spend nearly all of their waking working life online (much like me). Therefore they are satisfied with the level of service they get as they have very little comparison. It would be interesting to find out though, what Thais think. Mainly because if any could do anything about it (and even that's highly doubtful) it would be the much more numerous Thai voices that would bring about change. Forget farangs ever being able to influence what a telco company like 3BB does. That's just ridiculous thinking.

True have really been my saviour, their connection to the other house I have is constant and VERY fast. International bandwidth is equally as fast. On my 16Mb connection, using a UK webproxy, I can watch LIVE streaming BBC TV programs - not just recorded ones, as they air on the iPlayer, that for me is evidence of me getting what I paid for. Fast speeds, consistent service and bandwidth that very rarely drops below 75% of its upper limit. My earnings are back up and I'm really really happy. In a month and a half now it's been out once and on one Sunday, for half of the day, I got under 10% service. That's all. The rest of the time it's between 12Mb and 15.5Mb. I fully appreciate it's highly unlikely I'll ever get the full 16Mb and definitely not to the outside world.

It's not just this, it's the fact they are very efficient as a company, IMO. They come out on time, they're dilligent, actually come and fix things, and are knowledgable when you phone them. They have excellent English speakers on the phones and I applaud them for this.

There is one major thing at play here and something I alluded to at the beginning of this post, I'm starting to get the distinct impression that a lot of this is purely down to location, location, location.

I have read such varied responses, regarding levels of service with all the ISPs from city to city. Chiang Mai, Krung Thep, Pattaya, Ranong, Chumpon, Surat Thai, Phuket, Koh Samui, Krabi, Hat Yai. Each place seems to have it's own winners and losers. I just feel sorry for the people that live in areas where you don't have a choice. Particularly the Krabi - Satun coast.

On top of provincial/city locations, then there's the problem of how far to the ISPs main exchange your house/condo/office is. I've been told by all the ISPs that the closer you are to the main exchange, the better your connection will be and also that the amount of similar peer connections within your moobaan or apartment block also makes a considerable difference.

All I can say is from personal experience, living in a quiet moobaan (for both houses) on the outskirts of Surat Thani (near the Big C on the way out to Nakhon), that True is the 100% winner by miles and they're cheaper, after tax, than 3BB.

I simply cannot wait for True to roll out 20down/4up in my area. I know it will be fantastic and I also anticipate in a few years, say 3 max, 50down being available here too.

I personally think province to province and city to city it's hit and miss. I know it should not be this way, but if you think of Thailand as the 3rd world country it actually is and the fact so much money is being stolen from its intended use of improving the overall countrywide infrastructure, it's not difficult to think of the entire coverage picture as being incredibly patchy in areas. Not just on a national scale, but on a citywide scale also.

I hate the fact that I have had to dance around ISPs to find this out. It's cost me a small fortune (in internet subscription terms). Thus, I hope these threads go some way to alleviating the problems that others could face.

It is my personal opinion through close to 5 years experience that True are miles ahead when it comes to internet connectivity, but I can only opine based on my experiences in Surat Thani. This is not to say that in other cities, provinces and even within Surat itself, that things will be very different in the soi, thanon, moobaan, condo, offit you live in or are thinking about getting.

It's a lottery and seeing as it's not endorsed by the government, maybe the BiB's will come and shut it down soon. Sorry poor joke.

That is all I have to say on the matter!

Don't forget too the Thailand has a pretty good economy at present and recovered well from 1997. the international aspects of industry in Thailand are now the mainstay of the economy. If these businesses weren't doing "OK" they'd pull out eventually. Thailand is good at manufacturing that requires a skilled, semiskilled or trained work force.........i've worked a lot with major companies here and at times I fail t see how they can exist at all, but they do.There are business practices that are quite unbelievable and some take up as you say is either slow or non-existant. THe old culture of authority and face still exists throughout industry and again is part of the order that the current elite want to see in place - it works for them, it keeps the wealth in their hands and the labour-force malleable - but there are pressures on this system - just as there are on the Chinese system - it can't last forever with a bourgeoning middle-class and an increasingly skilled work-force.

so I agree with what you see but I don't see it as linear.

Well I've had my say and am happy with the way I articulated it.

I've really like some of what you said. Ultimately it's a matter of time as with all things. How long? Who knows. I'd like to see elements of this progression appearing around us soon, but I can't see it yet. I still stand by my point that Thailand should be a lot futher along that it is. Clear evidence of this forward movement is not apparent in any areas IMO. We both know the reasons why this has been hindered.

Nice to have a grown-up and decent debate about such a topic. I really didn't think that was possible on TV, without the conversation or debate degenerating into "IF YOU NO LIKE.. GO HOME!" type mud slinging. Fair play senor. :jap:

OK - I certainly agree that one should criticise when and where one sees fit - none of this" you're in another country if you don't like it go home" crap.....but I think that to see things as a linear progression is not helpful.Thailand knows where it is it is a power struggle that is affecting it - the roots are in history but the reality is now and change does not have to be a progression similar to the west as we've done that bit - Thailand could very quickly adopt a workable democratic system, if the right people are in power - it has happened before here, but as ever the military stepped in and interfered.

Maybe I should stop looking at things so linearly, it's hard to do that as a human and one who comes from a country of origin that seems to follow this forward progression. It's very hard to see a country moving forward when all the apparent visual evidence is of it moving backwards. If it's not moving forward in a linear fashion, what does moving forward in a non-linear fashion mean - that just sounds like politik speak for moving backwards or sideways to me.

Thailand seems to me, in the way it advertises itself on a global scale, a country that wants all the trappings and benefits of a forward, modern, democratic, economically progressive country. That is exactly how is promotes itself on an international level, to investors, to potential business owners. It wants to be viewed in the this way. Meaning that it will be measured by yard sticks that aren't Thai. It will be compared, in its advances to move forward to other places. Based on these comparisons it fails miserably and it's very very evident.

May I point out that you yourself say that the cyclical nature of progressive Thai governance being thwarted by the military time and time and time again, means that any notion of forward progression is merely an illusion (which those with real power are happy to reinforce) and we have to come up with ideas of forward movement in a non-linear fashion to try say that Thailand, as a country, is getting anywhere.

This cyclical pattern will continue and nothing will change. For a very long time. It's all just smoke and mirrors and pure illusion - this forward progression in a non-linear fashion.

You say Thailand knows where it is, that its aware of its power struggle. I think it, as a country, it isn't aware. I also think that those that are aware are very happy to keep it that way and they hold all the cards.

I agree in general with your observartions but not your conclusion...........

"None of this can detract from the fact that Thailand as a country is like stepping into a time machine that is only set to travel backward in time - in nearly every respect, but definitely regarding all of its business practices, its government and its economy."

So many people seem to think that because Thailand gets things wrong or fails to do the logical it is because they are "backward" or "behind the times".RThisd kind of infers a linear progression towards modernity......but I don't think that works - this is the modern world andThailand is part of it. The problems come not from being backward or "stepping back in time" they come from Thailand - a wealthy country's relationship with it's own people and the outside world. this is hampered by at top down/dictatorial sequence of governments and no properly functioning constitutional institutions.

Thasiland is inn the 21st century - it just can't make best use of it as it continually develops non-functioning ideas.....such as a legal system that can prevent 3G.

What I say may appear to be harsh, and it is only my genuine opinion. I like what you say in places here, but I think some of your reasoning is flawed.

"It just can't make the best use of it as it continually develops non-functioning ideas.....such as a legal system that can prevent 3G."

I don't think the continutal implementation of non-functioning ideas is the problem. I genuinely think it's the utter reluctance of Thai businesses and the government to want to listen to ideas that have been proven to work elsewhere. It does not even try to look at new ideas and ways of functioning. What prevents this? Well bureaucracy and corruption of course. There's many in the upper echelons of business and government that do not want things to change at all and will do every thing they can to prevent progression of any kind. They will never look to examples worldwide and think to themselves, "Oh that's a good idea - let's try that." That kind of innovation and the culture of losing face is too much to surmount in my opinion. It filters down to all levels of business in Thailand, which obviously effects the overall economy. The tourist industry is a perfect example of that. It is damaging itself and will continue to do so. It thinks the world views Thailand as it did in the early 90's. It is now 2010. Time to wake up and catch up Thailand, or face the very real prospect of being one of the forgotten and ridiculed nations of the ASEAN region. A byword for sex tourism, some crowded beaches and corruption. I really do not want this to happen.

"So many people seem to think that because Thailand gets things wrong or fails to do the logical it is because they are backward"....

I'm sorry but not looking to other models and standards that actually work (even within the ASEAN region) and trying to implement instead of simply just repeating the same mistakes over and over and over and over and then saying "Oh that didn't work!" - that to me is perfect evidence of a backwards moving economy and governance. There is no scope for things to be done any other way than this. In fact, if you try to be too progressive you are actively held back by others that control the businesses, economy and government - this is BACKWARD thinking and acting. It leads to and promotes a culture of constant failure. Then it becomes part of the fabric of the country and it's very hard to eradicate. I'd say it's impossible.

This are just observations backed up by time in this country, just my opionion.

Thailand is a lot futher behind than where it should be. It is more backward in a lot of respects than it could be. Thailand is a country of all-out conformity of the masses. All this viewing it from the inside - not from the viewpoint of a very progressive nation.

In Asia, I think South Korea is a fantastic example of what Thailand could be like, it definitely has the natural resources to be an economic force to rival a country like South Korea - but let's all laugh at the idea of this ever happening. You can't ever tell Thailand what it should or might consider doing, and it will, as a country, never listen.

I will continue to live here as I love Thailand immensely and I love a Thai with all my heart, but loving my adopted home and some of its citizens does not mean I should not be allowed to openly criticize it and speak what I consider the truth. Not that me doing this serves any other purpose than making me feel better. Nothing will change.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Deeral.

And this is why rumours and only ever rumours and are generally built on lies, conjecture and nothing more.

You article completely fails to highlight any real evidence or proof of Thailand progressing. It's all baseless.

I love this country, I speak/read/write the language fluently, I've immersed myself in the culture, I've befriended the people, I've lived here for a while now and it is my home. It has some utterly fantastic facets to it and you can come away with many 'once-in-a-lifetime' experiences. It is an unforgettable country.

None of this can detract from the fact that Thailand as a country politically and in many other sectors is like stepping into a time machine that is only set to travel backward in time - in nearly every respect, but definitely regarding all of its business practices, its government and its economy.

Telecommunications in Thailand is a very very big bone of contention for me. I rely on it for work, specifically the internet. The telco companies in Thailand are stuck in the dark ages and will stay this way for aeons to come. Inherent corruption and the willingness of the management to only ever serve themselves and they promoting utter disregard and in some cases disdain for their subscribership - means this country, economically will never move forward. Thailand does not like to be told what to do and it does not like to listen. We cannot say anything here that will ever change the staus quo. That's how it is here and ultimately we just have to accept that.

Don't even get me started on tourism. I worked in the tourist industry in the UK for over 15 years, basically all of my working life and the way the TAT is run sometimes makes my physically sick. I'm not going to expand on the matter here, but just travelling around the country and seeing how tourists are treated, from Phuket's tuk-tuk drivers - 300THB for a 3 min journey, to the fake BIBs/Monks in Krung Thep and other major cities, to the 'temple is closed - come see gems' idiots in Ayutthaya, to the constantly fluctuating price of entry to all national parks, to the digusting rack rates on seafront bungalows, to the unecessary agressiveness of Thai tour operators on land and sea, to the mafia limos beating down the taxi meters outside Suvarnabhumi (ok they're gone, but it took a bloody long time).... there are hundreds of more examples, but I'll stop here for now... these are all examples of a tourist industy in utter disarray and stuck permanently in the dark ages and moving only in one direction - BACKWARDS. Thailand seems to want to lose out to the ASEAN competition, which it will. People all over the country reliant on tourism are starting to suffer now, it's very evident. Those at the top could not care less. This will never change. It is the status quo in this country.

Let's not kid ourselves that Thailand is moving even vaguely in the direction of forward, to posit otherwise is to be firmly living in the land of dreams, wake up and come back to the Land of Smiles. It may be stuck in reverse, but it's very pretty to look at in places.

Well surprisingly even my 16Mb True is very slow today. With the Thai Visa speedtest to Bangkok I'm only getting 228ms/down 350kbps/up 410kbps.

I am getting under 1/32nd of the speed that I have paid for. I'll admit, since I bought the True connection this is the first time it has been particularly slow in over a month, but still - less than 3% of the actual service capacity is terribly bad.

I've had and still have Maxnet/3BB since 2006, which I might have well replaced with 2 Malee tin cans and some fishing wire.

I now have True, and this is the first time I've been disillusioned with it.

Bottom line, Thailand is a 3rd world country and definitely has a 3rd world internet infrastructure to go with it - although all the ISPs and networks like to pretend and posture as if they are the very best in the world. You're f*cked in Thailand - whichever way you turn IMO. Until this is fixed this country will continue to live in the veritable dark ages of telecommunications - something that now underpins all economically advanced nations' economies.... such a shame as it could progress at an exponential rate if things were made to work properly and self-serving money-grabbing bureaucrats and bureaucracy was eradicated from the scene.

Inherent corruption, poor materials and knowhow when installing lines, the reluctance to hire anyone other than incompetent Thais to do and oversee these jobs (you know they just pocket all the money for creating the network and make it half-arsed, have you seen the overground electricity here!?), very poor business practices (i.e. taking money and 100% failing to provide an acceptable level of service 100% of the time), absolutely no recourse for the customer to discuss and change things, staff on poor wages, uninformed/poorly taught robotic staff, incompetent line technicians, willingness to immediately pass the buck.... once all of these problems are eradicated from the ISPs/Telcos then there will be some headway. This is not going to happen ever! Face up to that now. It's never happened in Thai business, so it is never going to happen period. Either companies bleed their subscriber ship dry and lie to them constantly (as all ISPs currently do) or they do not survive in this landscape. We are simply the pawns in their game to getting ever richer and fatter - we have no voice.

No offence here, but an open letter on a forum for farangs is really utimately 100% ineffectual in its intended purpose and cause. I see what you're trying to do, but I really must ask - is there really any point. Sorry to be so defeatist, it's just from 5 or so years experience dealing with Thai businesses.

Equally so any emails that are sent to them are going to be 100% ineffectual. If they ever get them and the emails are not re-routed to Botswana due to them being unable to correctly build an infrastructure which is in line with the apparent modernity of the 'face' of the ISPs. Even if they do get it, it's not going to be read by the people is should be or is intended for, as it's in English. If it's in Thai it will 100% be discarded after the first sentence. You just know it will be.

There will be no changes set about by any actions we as farangs try - well not on a national or international level, definitely not. This is Thailand - the telco middle/dark ages.