jojothai

Thanks

I can get another PCR but i doubt it will help.
I already planned to do what was suggested by inter.
Problem is that all the local pharmacies are still closed. I have to go into town to find one open.

My focus should be also on possible effect on other passengers, so THai airways must be first priority.
Now looking at how that works. 

Positive, so my homework is now important.

LF tests now negative.

Thai airways most likely the safest to ensure i can get back,

And so that i can request they put me in the back seats to keep separated from others.

7 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Jojo, 'Inter' has some good ideas -  in the UK, in most Pharmacies, you'll find a range of 'Sterimar' sprays (salt and water), about GBP 8. You can spray into the upper cavities of the nose and this may help. You can use it 5 times a day or more. 'Inter's' ideas for the throat are good too. Do as much as you can to help yourself - if you are no longer infected, this may help clear 'expired' virus. Antibody tests are interesting of course but in similar circumstances, I was led to believe that they were not decisive in the way you need.

 

I cannot understand why you have not done regular LF tests - even though a PCR test may give you a different result, if you had returned 7 daily negative LF's in the last week that would surely help give you a level of comfort ?

 

I do wish you well and hopefully, your PCR test today, will show that you are now clear . . . . IF your test comes back 'not detected' or 'negative' then hooray ! I'm sure when you arrive in BKK the result will be the same - obviously, this is the best outcome by far !

 

BUT if the virus is detected in today's PCR, whatever you've found in the rules about this, I think it might be very difficult for you, both boarding and arrival.

 

In your last post you noted this, "It may not help anybody sat near me on the plane. I will tell the flight staff that I should be isolated at the back''. I found that concerning - why ? Do you think you might still be infectious ? In which case, I know it's important for you to get back but ???

 

It seems a matter life or death to you that you get on that plane - good for you if it happens. I have to tell you that myself, I would be very angry with an airline that boarded a PAX with a positive PCR.

 

ATB and I hope it goes well for you.

Thanks

I have been taking LF tests regularly , despite the NHS saying 5 to 6  days Ago that we should not do so.

Then the govt suddenly say they Are valid!!!
All LF tests were positive until this morning. So it is touch And go.

Waiting for test result now.

I have checked all the relevant airlines this morning in Manchester airport And will report later.

I currently have Thai airways And Emirates As options to fly back.

for the sitting at the back its nothing to do with whether I am infectious.
If I test positive in BKK you must surely know that people sitting around me will be quarantined ?
I want to get back but would be very upset if other people will get quarantined. They will be more upset than me.

I consider its imperative to consider others as well and I wil do my best to ensure the airline keeps me isolated.

Now I have negative LF tests here its most likely I m no longer infectious,

but if my PCR test is now positive here,  then it my be tested positive when I land. 

2 hours ago, internationalism said:

Get also antibody test, they are cheap, around 30gbp with certificate. It will show your recent infection. It will also be high after recent vax. 
Most probably you will get them also in thailand after positive. Insist on doing so. 
they prove your viral infection is very low, residue from the recent infection. 
get yourself throat lozenges containing cetylopiridinium chloride. They are in thailand under name cepecol original. Possibly similar name in the uk. 
there are also mouthwash, toothpaste, sirups or any other form. 
its antibacterial, but also new research shows antiviral.  You can search the net for other medicines containing it or ask pharmacist to check on computer if they stock it. They might even order for you one for the next day. 
you might still have traces of virus in the nose and throat, but not in the body. 
also use nasal inhalers with menthol,  camphor, eucalyptus and the other essential oils. I think in the UK under name vix. 
use it all the time to clear airways. I do even lick them to clean mouth and throat. 
you can do home inhalations with salt, essential oils or anything available over the counter. Even room diffusers with antimicrobial essential oils - menthol, eucalyptus, pine and many others
 

Thanks. my PCR tes here in UK is in 6 hours.

19 minutes ago, jojothai said:

I have not seen anything to say there is a limit on the number of days for Thailand for recovery.
However Qatar airways verbally said 14 but wanted negative PCR also.

In the UK the private providers state that they will give you the certificate 11 days after the test that was positive.
That must be because UK is 10 days self isolation after testing positive

I forgot, after being tested positive in Thailand, how long do you need quarantined?

If its 14 days then they are within their rights to say that I have to meet the same, so that would be in my case 17th + 14 = 31 last day
I may land on 31 so I have an argument to say I am ok then.

It may not help anybody sat near me on the plane. I will tell the flight staff that I should be isolated at the back.

5 hours ago, balhamred said:

@jojothai

These screenshots may help:

 

I don't think the hotels are aware of this rule, that's one of the problems. I think it would be best to try and clear the situation with the hotel in advance of travelling, to maximize your chances of a good outcome.

Thank you kindly for posting this.
What happens in Thailand is just as important as getting on the flight, I think that this may help get things resolved more quickly.

Because its new years holiday when I get back, I expect that if I test positive it will take until midweek to get this addressed.
I don't mind if I have to do 7 days quarantine. Getting back is more important.

I do not want to say anything about being infected to the hotel in advance. Remember TIT.

The person doing bookings will almost certainly not know anything about this, may panic and cancel my booking,

they can say they are full or whatever to avoid having anybody that may have covid.

12 hours ago, balhamred said:

I'm also thinking in agreement with you, although the wording is vague, it appears as though arriving with the recovery certificate and positive pcr may put you in a different process than someone arriving with a negative pcr and recovery certificate and then testing positive.

 

Edit: will thai airways let us on the flight if the recovery certificate is just 11 days since the positive pcr sample, or does the recovery certificate need to be 14 days from positive?

I have not seen anything to say there is a limit on the number of days for Thailand for recovery.
However Qatar airways verbally said 14 but wanted negative PCR also.

In the UK the private providers state that they will give you the certificate 11 days after the test that was positive.
That must be because UK is 10 days self isolation after testing positive

You will need to keep checking what is valid periodically.

I recall reading some proposals recently that for travel people my be required to have full vaccination and vaccination booster within 6 months of travel.

We don't know what will be required.

If you want to come back in July, if I was you I would get the booster perhaps in February to ensure it is within 6 months of return.

We will clearly have to wait to see what happens with Omicron before any further rules are issued.

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

Balham - with respect, you can catch Covid twice in quick succession. I know of cases in my Family.

 

This is particularly true for unvaxed persons as Omicron virus can escape the immunity left behind by Delta infection.  More worryingly, fast reinfections can occur in vaxed persons too.

Yes, it is possible.

As i noted, my worst situation may be testing negative here before flight, then positive in thailand. What do the thais do then?

I had my booster on 12 december and got symptoms 16th.

They say you need 14 days for booster to be effective.

Its impossible to judge what sort of a situation i am in until the pcr tests, test to fly is tomorrow.

7 hours ago, balhamred said:

Is the conclusion that even with the Recovery Certificate, after landing in Thailand a positive PCR is going to mean quarantine 14 days nonetheless?

 

That would be really disappointing, when it's obvious that you can't catch it twice within quick succession.

There is nobody reporting any such experience yet.

I may then be the first to find out.

I have read somewhere a few days ago that we will not have to quarantine, and may not have to take the PCR test.

However i have so far ignored that until we know what actually happens. TIT and i expect the thais to follow the black and white.

The uk is 10 days to release after positive test, some other countries i saw 14.. dont know how the thais may consider it.

I expect they may say that i have to stay in hotel quarantine until i have pcr test negative or up to 7 / 10 days

My worst situation could be testing negative before flight, then positive when i get to BKK.

it may be best if i test positive here and have to use the recovery certificate to fly.

9 minutes ago, treetops said:

Clause 2 is only about transit passengers the way I read it, not sure about the rest:

 

Correct and good.

My mistake, they have removed thai pass. The article is dated 23 December and has the previous rules removed.

I was checking earlier when the Thai pass was there, that's when the airline was pointing out the requirement

I have seen it then but cannot verify now.

There is still nothing in the rules stated to allow the recovery certificate with positive PCR. So that may still be a problem.

I note that I reported the problem to IATA on the 23 December and I am sure that it was there,

and this new version is dated 23 also.        Could it be that  . . . . .  .

Its great that you have alerted me to the change thanks, and i potentially have more reason to dispute what the airline says.

Its still a problem with the airline, their documented rules still now clearly state as follows:

When I go to Manchester airport on 27th for my PCR test,

I am already planning to see finnair there to dispute the requirements with them to try to resolve for my flight on 30th.

Trust that you have had  a great christmas. Its just coming to midnight now in Thailand.

4 hours ago, treetops said:

Click on Thailand on the map displayed here:

 

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/world.php

 

or follow the step by step path here:

 

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/passport-visa-health-travel-document-requirements.htm#

 

Thanks treetops

But Clause 2 in the map states that  a negative PCR test is required. There are no exceptions

the rest of the text only deal with sandbox or AQ. The Thailnd Pass has been removed - presumably because it is suspended.

Then the clause 3 referring to recovery certificate only relates to vaccination certificate / status see below.

The second link only gets me to Sandbox or AQ.

This is the problem I have with the airline. They insist on a negative PCR test according to IATA.

Its incomplete and false information from IATA.
I have made  complaint. no response yet

3 d. have a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they were fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Covaxin, Covishield, Janssen, Moderna (Spikevax), Pfizer-BioNTech (Comirnaty), Sinopharm, Sinovac or Sputnik V at least 14 days before departure;
- This does not apply to:
- passengers younger than 11 years;
- nationals of Thailand between 12 and 17 years with a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they received one dose of AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Covaxin, Covishield, Janssen, Moderna (Spikevax), Pfizer-BioNTech (Comirnaty), Sinopharm, Sinovac or Sputnik V;
- passengers with a recovery certificate and a COVID-19 vaccination certificate showing that they received at least one dose of AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria), Covaxin, Covishield, Janssen, Moderna (Spikevax), Pfizer-BioNTech (Comirnaty), Sinopharm, Sinovac or Sputnik V at most 3 months after the infection and at least 14 days before departure.

1 hour ago, Albert Zweistein said:

Isn't this more or less the same i am saying ?

In my opinion not precisely. You are referring to the use of the recovery certificate in case of a positive test.
From what i have found in the last 2 days, even if it is actually a negative test (as demanded by the airline),

they may require a recovery certificate also if you have recently recovered. People may not think of it that way.
 

IMHO, i now consider the recovery certificate important to get whether the PCR test is positive or negative.
I will get one regardless of the test result.

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

I did not see that in the rules for the Test & Go scheme. Perhaps you misinterpreted something.

 

See my post above that provides a clear path to where the rules are on the ministry website,

and the text from the official article dated 24 december.

1 hour ago, Albert Zweistein said:

The problem being recovered from Covid is that the pcr test still could show positive so any airline will deny boarding without a recovery certificate.

Hi Albert

Yes, but the problem is even worse. from my search, it seems that most airlines insist on a negative PCR test regardless of any recovery.
The recovery certificate is still required when you have to declare that you recently had covid within the last 3 months.

If so, they must then see a recovery certificate to protect themselves against any potential liability to other passengers.

One example is qatar airways will only accept passengers at least 14 days after any infection, and with a negative PCR test, 

At present it appears that i will be ok flying with Thai. The guy I spoke to in Thai airways bangkok was most helpful.

Keep my fingers crossed

GOOD NEWS  SUCCESS in finding an official answer the question if the recovery certificate is valid. 

From the CAAT site informed by the THAI employee in Bangkok, I have found the appropriate links.

Main site   www.caat.or.th

takes  me to   https://www.caat.or.th/th/archives/47858

There the updates are listed

Go to  "Frequently Asked Questions Thailand Pass FAQs - Update" , CLICK the update

This takes you to the ministry of foreign affairs site

https://consular.mfa.go.th/th/content/thailand-pass-faqs-2

items are under individual sections but if you go to the bottom you can get a complete download.

"Thailand_Pass_FAQ_THAI-ENG__24_Dec_2021__11.00_hrs.pdf"

As you can see,  this is 24 DECEMBER.

on FAQ - Q3 page 7 it states clearly that:

** Applicant is also required to have an RT-PCR test result that is issued within 72 hours before
departure and bring the results to present to the Health Control station upon arrival. This
requirement is not required for Thai nationals entering under the AQ scheme and for children aged
below 6. Please note that your test result must be in hard copy and in Thai or English language
only.
** If the applicant’s RT-PCR test result is positive, they must present a COVID-19 recovery form
certifying that the applicant has recovered from COVID-19 within 3 months before their travel

Also under Q4 it quotes the other statement concerning Documents – Certificate of Vaccination

on page 12 item 5 

"Those who have recovered from COVID-19 within 3 months before travelling to Thailand must present a valid COVID-19 recovery form or medical certificate certifying that they have recovered from COVID-19 within 3 months before travelling or are asymptomatic in case their COVID-19 RT-PCR test shows a positive result."

This is i believe as clear cut as it can be.  Therefore i believe Thai Airways should be fine if my airline booked will not take me.

In the other CAAT rules i read there is the requirement as follows:

(15) For flight with flight time more than 240 minutes, the last 3 seat rows of one side of the cabin should be designated for on-board emergency quarantine measures to isolate the ill or suspected to be affected from COVID-19 traveller (passenger or crewmember) for the reason of surveillance and disease transmission prevention. And in case that the ill or suspected to be affected from COVID-19 traveller (passenger or crewmember) is found in flight, air operator shall implement the on-board emergency quarantine as follows;
(a) Such ill or suspected to be affected from COVID-19 traveller (passenger or crewmember) shall be seated at the reserved seat in the quarantine area mentioned above as far away from the other passengers as possible.
(b) In case that there are more than one lavatory, the lavatory nearest to the quarantine area should be specifically designated for quarantine purpose.
(c) One lavatory may be reserved and used exclusively by crewmember considering sufficiency for passengers.
(d) It is recommended to assign specific crew members to provide necessary in-flight service for quarantine area, and the crew members should minimize close contacts (within 2 meters) with other crew members and unnecessary contacts.
(e) Flight crew shall notify the air traffic controller at port of disembarkation about information regarding passenger or crew who is ill or suspected to be affected from COVID-19 in order to convey the finding to the airport of entry.
(16) There shall be the cleaning and disinfection of equipment in the cabin that

With this requirement i expect that I can request to be quarantined there for the flight, so that I am not affecting any other passengers should I test positive when landing in Bangkok.
This is a relief because there has to be consideration for other people that i could test positive on arrival and they will be quarantined.

From this i feel confident that if my PCR test is positive I can still fly with THAI.

I will update in a few days to inform my PCR test result and on how it goes if I have to use the certificate.

in the meantime I am starting other medication to see if it helps to clear the virus more quickly before I have the PCR test on 27th.

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

OK Jojo - let us know how you get on please and ATB

Yes i will update, i think its very important I let people know what happens.  Other people could easily get caught in a similar problem 

Spoke to Qatar Airways and they will not allow travel for 14 days plus seem to need the negative PCR.  I could not get to speak to Thai airways here.
Had to send an email asking them to confirm if I can fly with the recovery cert and positive PCR.

I rang Thai airways in Bangkok to check. Used my skype account for overseas . It did not take too long.  They told me that under their rules i should be ok to travel.  They were very helpful and told me to also check the airline rules in detail at

www.caat.or.th

I am starting to study these covid entry regulations as specified by the Civil Aviation Authority.  I trust the details will give me the answer on the issue of using a recovery certificate, one way or the other. 

6 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

I suggest those comments are either out of date or overridden elsewhere or maybe intended to be part of the Vax requirements only. I'd guess, 'out of date'..

 

As you know, re-infection is extremely common in Year 2 of the pandemic, particularly with the nimble Omicron around. It would be bonkers to allow people to board or enter without a negative rt-PCR result (with Lab Report). N.B. the papers must have the rt prefix on them.

 

Do an LF for comfort, have a beer and good luck.

They are related directly to the Thai pass, very recently.

Hi and thanks for the replies.

They all help for me to consider the situation as best I can.

Seems that i may be the first posting this issue and having to deal with it.

It does appear that it may not be possible at all to fly with a positive PCR test, 

however the Thai requirements do allow it,  see Thai embassy FAQ

7 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Jojothai - if you are still testing positive even though recovered, why not give it a week or two more until you test negative? You say Thai Airways will accept a 'Recovery Certificate' for boarding - I find that surprising.

 

The problem is on arrival in Thailand - IMO if you test positive I'm sure you will have to quarantine in accordance with current rules.

 

Why ? Because how can the Thai Authorities know whether the arrival positive is residual virus from an old infection or is a new infection acquired in transit ? It sounds very difficult to me. Good luck.

 

I have a Thai pass approved.

The scheme is suspended but I can travel up to the three day validity. Limit 30th December.

If not, its going to be about a month until i get to Thailand and out of quarantine. Add up the timing required.
I have no problem going into quarantine when I get back.
But thats only if I can fly.
If I cannot fly because of a positive PCR then i will not get back. That why the recovery certificate is likely to be critical.

8 hours ago, internationalism said:

you check in and enter on 3 shots you had and pcr test, not on recovery certificate, which thailand doesn't recognise at all.

Airline policies don't have anything to do with your entry - probably thai airways info is misleading. 

If you can't get recovery certificate from nhs, you can ask them for anything related to your infection. Surely you should have a dated copy of results with positive, which will prove your infection as much as recovery certificate. Maybe even a picture of your recent medical record from the doctor'c computer screen. 

Maybe also there is nhs smartphone application or log in to your patient account on their website which would have some info. 

I would rather not show it on arrival in thailand but kept it as a back up in case you turn positive the next day.

Than it's up to health authorities - they might tell you to isolate at home for some days, depending when your infection was first detected and when you finished isolation. 

Hi and thanks for joining in the discussion.
Unfortunately it is the Airline policies that dictate whether you can get on a flight or not.
They do not all precisely align with what governments allow. 
My airline seems to contradict the fact that their government allows recovery certificates.
The airline is stating that they follow IATA regulations.
Treetops may be able to help point out where their regulations include for the recovery certificate.
I am waiting for response to a query  sent to IATA.

The GP, NHS call line on several topics all cannot help with a recovery certificate. Taken over a day of multiple calls and no way.
They have no obligation to do so if its for international travel out of country.
There are private providers.

Thai airways requirements clearly list the relaxation of a recovery certificate according to the Thailand requirements.
So I expect that I may have to fly with them and cannot use my existing ticket.
If my PCR test is positive again. nobody will want to see me according to UK govt laws,

So I have to figure this out by the time I get the PCR test result.

8 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

Jojothai - It's great that you have come through Covid OK but respectfully, re. a 'Recovery Certificate', I think you can ignore it.

 

You don't need to consult widely . . . UK wise, I think the requirement to fly on most airlines is a clear PCR test within 72 hours of your flight departure. If you have recovered from Covid that test WILL be clear and IMO it's all you will need to fly.

 

As Phet says you can get comfort before that - why not a 'Lateral flow / ATK tests at home plus an extra pre-ticket rt-PCR test ?

 

Relax and Good Luck to you !

 

 

 

Sorry but you need to read up on this. I will not get back if i ignore the realities.

The recovery certificate may be the only way i can get back for a month or so.

Taking another PCR test carries very high risk of being positive.
As i have stated in another post. The evidence from testing is that its likely to be 14 to 30 days to test negative again.  
More likely 30 . Probably only a 1 in 5 chance that i get clear early.
LF test will not help to fly, but they will give me an indication of when the viral load is diminishing.

I do have some medication that is reported to help clear covid. 

Much debate and no certainties, but i will have to try see if it helps clear the covid more quickly.

2 hours ago, supersomchai said:

The advice given to medical staff in uk is not to do a pcr for 90 days after having covid had covid.

This is because it is possible to get a false positive up to 90 days post 

covid.

However you may test negative much sooner after catching covid.

I would get a flexible flight and keep getting weekly pcrs till i test negative.

 

 

 

The PCR advice is correct. That's why countries have the 90 days for the recovery certificate.
From the studies published on websites where they retested, Clearance is likely to be in 14 to 30 days,

Only something like a 1 in 5 chance it may be cleared early.

The Uk has just changed to allowing Lateral flow tests for day 6 and 7.

That's despite everything on NHS stating that you should not do any tests following the positive PCR.
Something does not add up. I cannot find any information on lateral flow tests that this will prove anything. There should be a PCR test.

They are desperate to keep NHS staff in work, instead of self isolating. Understood, I guess its a panic measure.

I need to get back. I have a Thai Pass approved for 27th. With validity of 72 hours I can fly up to 30th.
Just got to get my act together concerning who i can fly with if i am still positive.

1 hour ago, TorquayFan said:

Thanks Treetops - so that's how a 'Recovery certificate' fits in - i.e. plus one vaccine shot it qualifies you as fully vaxed. But the negative rt-PCR will still be needed to board and enter . . . .

So far I have only found Thai airways that accepts it for boarding.
I got nowhere contacting airlines two days and will have to go to Manchester airport to get the facts in person rom the ground staff for checkin

I can do that on 27th. I am changing my flight to 30th.
That is within the 72 hours validity of the Thai Pass i have got.
If my PCR test is positive and my airline will not accept the recovery certificate, then I will have to fly thai airways.

1 hour ago, treetops said:

Agree on what the OP should use for entry, but to clarify for others, Thailand does accept a recovery certificate for entry.  This is from IATA requirements for Sandbox entry:

 

 

 

Hi treetops. Thanks.

You are correct the recover certificate is accepted and it is  on Thai airways guidance.
Please can you clarify where you found that on IATA with the link address.
I have searched hard and not found it.