rockyysdt

The way I internalize it, is that I'm mindful of being a cerebral person. Until practice yields a tipping point, I feel that visions of something beyond, can give impetus to those who are conditioned. Also communicating such discussions allow the meeting of other travellers, a digital mini sangha if you will, which can help to dispel negative thoughts and encourage my practice. 👍🙂

Thanks for the links. Definitely the absence of Dukkha, but the issue I wanted to address is "during which period does Dukkha become absent? While you live, if you're able to achieve Awakening, then Dhukka becomes absent. But does that continue once you die?

Thanks JT. Removal from the wheel of Samsara is agreed. But what about what happens after the quenching of Craving? It is this part of the process that I referred to as being nihilistic.

Does that leave Buddhism as a nihilistic pursuit?

Thanks C. I write to rekindle my path, but also to learn from others. Thank you for your insights. I tip my hat to you. Quite a journey you've experienced. Your words help to make sense of my life and validate what has happened to me and what I do and hope to with the remainder of my impermanence.. I laughed wholeheartedly at your Zen experiences. The Japanese know how to cut through to get to the heart, all be it with great suffering. Regarding the stance some have that Awakening is the cessation of suffering due to the quenching of craving, I suspect this might have something to do with letting go of the Self. You indicated, letting go was one of the hardest things to do in order to achieve that sublime state of being. It might be possible that believing one will exist in eternal bliss might get in the way of letting go of the Self and thus impede your practice. 👍

Yes, but many are saying that Nibbana is not a permanent blissful state. On the contrary, it is taught "that which was born is impermanent and therefore will die". Also, if you were to follow the Buddhas teachings, and that of Arahants since, it's not simply meditation, but a process of letting go of attachment to Self. Self being impermanent. Basically you detach yourself or abandon Self or Ego. If successful you Awaken to the reality that there is no self. This quenching of craving results in the cessation of rebirth. Nothing there about bliss. There are stages of meditation which result in blissful experiences, but the teaching is to observe them without attachment. Blissful feelings are impermanent and not the goal. In fact attachment to bliss is an obstacle which will hinder your progress. From where I see it there are two camps: 1. Those who believe that Awakening is simply a state in which you no longer have attachment and therefore craving is quenched. The conclusion appears to result in the cessation of rebirth. As nothing else was promised it appears to end in annihilation. 2. Others believe Awakening is again a state in which you no longer have attachment and therefore craving is quenched, but that this is a gateway to something beyond our comprehension. Because I can't see why the Buddha would teach annihilation I favour the second option. 🙂

I do view it from a Thervada perspective. Although the history goes back 2,500 years we do have recent works supporting many critical aspects of the teaching. There are a number of Arahants who have documented their teachings and experience. For this discussion I site Ajaan Maha Boowa. Quote: "So I turned my attention to investigate my own past lives. If the corpses were scattered along the length and breadth of Thailand, there would not be space left. Just this one individual. Imagine the time it took to be born and die that many times. It would be impossible to count all the births and deaths". What do we make of his words, and that of several others? Do you call them fakes, or did they experience a collective delusion? If we accept these records and what we know about Theravada then: 1. our experience of life is a continuous flow of impermanent phenomena. 2. The flow continues through our lifetime while there is craving. 3. As we were born, we are impermanent and will die. 4. But (if we accept the Arahants word), while craving remains the cycle of re birth will occur. 5. Ajaan Boowa indicates all of his past lives were unique to him and his rebirth lineage, not others. 6. Awakening results in the quenching of craving. 7. When craving is quenched re birth ceases. What can you deduce from this? a. One's past lives have a unique lineage associated with them. b. Re Birth ceases when craving is quenched. Quite clearly, according to Ajaan Boowa and others, there are countless past lives, and there is cessation of rebirth after Awakening. If there is no longer suffering because there is no one reborn to suffer, then awakening appears to lead to annihilation. Then aren't countless rebirths (virtual permanence) with good times and bad times and illusion, better than nothing? Or is there something more to the state of Nibbana than simply quenching of craving?

Hi Lamyai. If they are drawn by reasons not dissimilar to Christianity then doesn't this support my question? I have never met a Christian believer who doesn't expect an after life. And, as you describe, the end of suffering appears to be the ultimate exit ramp within Buddhism. But if the end of suffering, which results from the quenching of craving,which then results in the in the cessation of rebirth, then who would sacrifice their life/lives for perhaps countless lifetimes with the ultimate reward of being extinguished?

Why is it futile? It's already been indicated that Awakening (which results in the quenching of craving and finally cessation of rebirth) is very difficult to attain. Even the Buddha was amazed at the number of his re births "Quote: the Buddha attained the ability to recall a vast number of past lives along with numerous details about them." It maybe futile in the end but if it buys you millions of re births, that is a lot of living, before cessation catches up with you. And lets consider this more closely, yes, there is suffering, but there is also good times. Cessation is nothing. As the Led Zeppelin title "Good Times Bad Times" suggests, some days might be good, and others bad, but there is life. Isn't that better than cessation?

Thanks for your esponse Sheryl. I believe Thabo is her closest public hospital. In one of her messages, she indicated her doctor has been her prosthetic specialist for many years. She had earlier complained that it might take a year to be seen by the specialist group. She also indicated that in that system she'd likely get an inexperienced doctor and consequently a poor outcome. Are we looking at a high fee vs virtually gratis for the same leg depending on how one engages the system? Is the service vastly different between each stream.

Hi Cheryl. She indicated that the hospital she uses is King Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital. When I suggested the Sirinhorn National Hospital she got very angry. She said she had a long relationship with her specialist doctor and going the Nonthaburi hospital entails very long waiting periods. Due to her finances it's been a number of years since her last upgrade of the prosthetic which cushions her stump from the actual leg. She's not in a good state physically and pretty sore. She is quoting 80,000b for a replacement leg. Her leg had been amputated at the knee.

But given re-birth, doesn't this process guarantee continuation, subject to Awakening extinguishing it? Quote: the Buddha attained the ability to recall a vast number of past lives along with numerous details about them. Presumably these were his past lives, not your, nor mine, which is suggestive that in this procession there is something, something unique to each of us. Which raises the question: Isn't Awakening akin to annihilation?

Focusing on the continuous flow of impermanent phenomena, I see an aspect which appears to be permanent. What appears to be the permanent part of this continuous flow of impermanent phenomena? Your continuous flow of impermanent phenomena, differs from my continuous flow of impermanent phenomena, which differs from Bruce's continuous flow of impermanent phenomena. The key word is "what". What being a pronoun, adverb, or dare I say, noun. "What" appears to be permanent, unless of course Awakening occurs, in which case craving is quenched and re birth ceases (on a side note, is this akin to annihilation?) Is "what" the real you (permanent)?

Hi Vince It had been said that' "there is no permanent soul or self". But what about' "that which was never born, can never die?".

Hi Bruce. What is wrong with craving to continue to exist?