beginner

Decided to stop the unprotected sex with my tgf cause a friend of mine just found out hes a daddy at the ripe age of 22..... sweet. Anyway so I go to the 7/11 and buy some regular condoms for the first time and go to get ready and im like . Basically im not about to ask the 17 year old girl at the register for something bigger and I don't read Thai so im not going to stand there for 5 minutes reading the back of every box looking for something bigger than a 52. Does anyone know which brand sells a 54 in 7/11 and I already know about the bodyguard brand but someone said they only sell them on suk and i live in lamlukka. Thanks ahead of time

Durex Comfort are 54mm and stretchy too (so I am reliably informed). They are packed in a black box....do not confuse with Excita also in black box.

Bodyguard also do a 54mm but are less stretchy (so I am told).

Boots. Watsons. Familymart, Seven11 and various supermarkets and pharmacies all stock them.

If I knew that they had just come from a Rastafarian prayer meeting I would probably feel more safe. Have a good gigle with them maybe.

Other religions I am not so sure about. Too many crackpot zealots at large.

'Never trust a man who prays' wise old saying.

I never read the book and have zero intention to read it.

Well OK. I think I understand that for some reason you have some sort of hostility to it. But don't let that slight impediment stop you having an opinion on its contents.

Actually it's more a general aversion to reading those type of book: I like to gather my facts in real life and not based on what's essentially a work of fiction, never mind if it's based on a story that's perceived true by the author.

I've probabaly spent a longer time in Thailand than Steven Leather, speak better Thai than Steven Leather, and have spoken to more Thais including Sex Workers than Steven Leather, so what's left is a work of fiction, to be read for enjoyment. Those books cannot, do not, and are not intended to paint any kind of comprehensive picture of 'the way things are'. Again, I'm not saying the author intended it as such, but I do note that many people here DO tout it as offering at least a typical picture.

Exactly. I have this feeling that the book will set or reinforce a stereotype whereby the girls are cunning and scheming,

How would you know if your only knowledge of the book is through the opinions of others who may have axes to grind.

Well, that comes from trusting you when you say "the book gets down to the nitty gritty of how some ladies like Fon (with UK sponsor) actually work their falangs." That sounds like scheming to me.

Natural and truthful. What about 'the noble lie' ie face saving. Truthful?? Are you serious? Have you also not read Thailand Fever?

I haven't. I looked it up on the book's website though which includes the first chapter and it seems like a reasonable effort. I'm not however in the target audience for the book, which is, apparently: " You've met the perfect Thai woman. You're dizzy with joy as her exotic world swirls around you. You've heard so many horror stories, but your heart tells you that she's for real. You want to understand her mysterious ways, and you wish she could understand yours. Now, there's help. Thailand Fever is an astonishing, one-of-a-kind, Thai–-English bilingual exposé of the cultural secrets that are the key to a smooth Thai–Western relationship.

I still think its a book worth the effort of reading. I was once persauded to read Pride and Prejudice against my better judgment.

Ok, fair enough. I believe a friend of mine owns a copy, I may borrow it from him and start reading it, if only so I can better reply to people claiming the book is the end-all to any relationship with any Thai woman, or even any Thai bar girl.

Thats a very credible and fair minded response on your part. I bow to your extensive experience and knowledge. We must compare notes after you have whizzed through Stephen's rather unlikely and lumpy prose.

I have seen the basic story repeated many times here in Pattaya. Someone I know is picking up the financial pieces of an encounter with a Thai teelac right now. His USA house sold, his savings gone. His heart broken. His teelac now repeating her performance on another innocent falang. How did it happen despite all his experience in Asia? he is asking himself.

That's why many people suggest Private Dancer is a good primer to bar culture.

On Thailand Fever. As you know its wriiten in both english and Thai. English on one side and Thai on the other. The sections on western concepts of Privacy and independence have usually amazed my Thai partners. The sections on Thai mother-daughter relations amazed me.

I have often wondered whether the translation is actually accurate. Maybe you could read it in Thai and appreciate any subtle differences.

Your extract from the website does sound like it is targeted at men but then that is the obvious largest target market. The subtitle on the cover is more general...Thailand Fever....A road map for Thai-Western relationships.

Thanks for the pics Piker.

Its really refreshing to see someone's simple pleasures. I bet no-one predicts what the final pics will be when they read your title and start to scroll down.

Very clever. Very good fun.

Maybe you will start a trend. A day in the life of..........

Could be fascinating.

I never read the book and have zero intention to read it.

Well OK. I think I understand that for some reason you have some sort of hostility to it. But don't let that slight impediment stop you having an opinion on its contents.

Exactly. I have this feeling that the book will set or reinforce a stereotype whereby the girls are cunning and scheming,

How would you know if your only knowledge of the book is through the opinions of others who may have axes to grind.

Exactly. I have this feeling that the book will set or reinforce a stereotype whereby the girls are cunning and scheming, where in fact often all it takes is to be natural and truthful and money will flow to them just by the force of gravity alone

Natural and truthful. What about 'the noble lie' ie face saving. Truthful?? Are you serious? Have you also not read Thailand Fever?

But anyway, there's far worse stuff out there, go view it; it's probably a quicker and better overview than a fictional Steven Leather novel.

'its probably'

Again. How would you know?

Thanks for the tip. I have taken your advice.

The Brit documentary is an overview but the book gets down to the nitty gritty of how some ladies like Fon (with UK sponsor) actually work their falangs.

I still think its a book worth the effort of reading. I was once persauded to read Pride and Prejudice against my better judgment. Afterwards I was very happy that I did. It opened my eyes in many ways. Everyone on this thread agrees that Private Dancer is not a great literary novel but most people who read it seem to get something out of it and tend to read it to the end.

Agree with you all, just about.

Stephen Leather doesn't need me to defend his writing. His many excellent books and Television adaptations speak for themselves.

This particular story was originally put on the internet for free downloading and presumably didn't go through the usual editing procedures. Its still a good read.

White Knight syndrome and Thai Fever is certainly alive and well. The economy of Pattaya, and the secondary Isaan economic hinterland is partially basd on it.

Money Number One for sure. For sure.

I have to disagree with you.. it's neither a thriller nor a must read! I had never planned to read it as it is so obviously aimed at a male audience and picked it up only as there was no other reading material available. I'm glad (although wouldn't say 'grateful') I read it as I said before because I live in Thailand and like to get an insight into scenes I don't go to

Well, I'm glad that you are 'glad' you read it.

What more can you ask of a book than that you are glad you read it? I assume you finished it....many of the books about the local Thai/Farang scene are virtually unreadable! How do they get published?

And here we are, both discussing it. Stephen Leather has certainly touched a lot of lives with his book.

The strange thing is that even though many farangs have read it, male and female, they still manage to fall into the financial and emotional black hole of a Thai/farang relationship.

You would think forewarned is forearmed but various forums and books show the devastating consequences of the belief that 'my partner is different'.

Thailand Fever by Chris Pirazzi and Vitida Vasant (MSc Cultural Anthropology) gives a Thai females view of the culture gap and is no doubt more accurate. In the main it backs up Private Dancer's positions rather than contradicts them.

Just read the Pattaya local papers if you want to see self destruct mode in action.

Best Regards.

Yours,

Zaza

Zaza,

You think too mutt.

Mai pen lai.

I have had a very different experience in Nana.

This happened whilst I was waiting by the spirit house at the entrance to meet a friend at closing time one morning.

An extremely drunk, extremely fat loud mouthed and aggressive falang (Brit I think) staggered towards the exit and dropped his trousers. He then waved his equipment at all comers, making obscene gestures towards the security guards and anyone else around.

He then fell over in a heap with his trousers round his ankles.

It took three fit young security guards to get him on his feet again and pull up his trousers. They then tried to move him out into the street.

He shook them free and dropped his trousers again and fell over.

The performance was repeated several times until they had him out on the pavement.

It seemed to me that the security guys went out of their way to move him without hurting or injuring him.

In many places in the world he would have suffered a severe beating or worse.

He was last seen wandering drunkenly down the middle of Soi Nana and amazingly made it to his hotel without being hit by the taxis and bikes that went round him and waited patiently to pass safely.

When I told a bar owner nearby what I had seen and expressed amazement at the restraint shown by the guards, he said it was normal.

When you consider the abysmal, moronic behaviour by some falangs you have to admire the self control and good nature of many Thais who have to put up with it.

I have never seen any violence by Thai upon falang but have seen many altercations by pathetic drunk falangs on other pathetic drunk falangs.

[ d***s... not especialy sexy, but kind of entertaining. i always feel sorry for the guys though, even more than the girls, because several of them are straight but they still go with (gross) gay men for the cash.

Some say that 80% of male GoGo dancers are straight. Just Gay for Pay.

Why do you feel sorry for them? Up to them.

This is Thailand. I wonder if they feel sorry for you with your 'strange' western ideas about sexuality.

Never read the book or any of the similar as, being a western women the subject isn't aimed for me, would rather read a thriller. better places for me to go & I'm just not curious enough to bother.

Got some family coming over next year so might take a trip to patpong then but I wouldn't go to a male strip show let alone a female one.

You are missing out on a treat.

Private Dancer is a thriller and a good one too. It is set in Bangkok and gives a good insight into the mindset of various stereotypical characters. Its not going to get a Nobel prize for literature but most people who read it are grateful for the experience.

Stephen Leather is an accomplished writer of excellent thrillers. Its not his best thriller by any means.

Many people believe that for their own emotional and financial protection no one, male or female, should be allowed out of Bangkok airport until they have finished reading it.

Buy,borrow and enjoy. I envy you the fun of a first time read.

Totally and completely off topic, but as the planned Beach Road closure has now been postponed, maybe you could enlighten us on what Mr Noyes had to say on the subject of 'illegal arrangements' by foreigners to own houses? Did he have something new to impart?

Or maybe you could start a new thread and tell us about it?

Heres the sumary from PCEC newsletter. I hope Drew and PCEC don't mind me posting it like this. LAST WEEK'S MEETING

We ended the year 2007 with the 2nd largest attendance in our Club’s history - 130 people, which we think is pretty good since for our largest meeting, the San Miguel folks were giving out free beer! Of course we know that too much beer leads to weight problems, which then leads to New Year resolutions. Well, Jay Leno of the Tonight Show believes that America has solved that problem, when he observed, “Now there are more overweight people in America than average-weight people. So overweight people are now average… which means, you have met your New Year's resolution.”

Since we were not giving away free beer, it shows that everyone was very interested in our speaker and his topic. Gary Hacker introduced our former Chairman and fellow member, Drew Noyes, to give us information on property ownership when it is held in the name of a Thai Company Limited and things you can do to comply with the pending amendments to the Foreign Business Act (FBA). Drew started his talk by saying don’t be afraid to own a home in Thailand. It is still possible to have and occupy a home in Thailand. The key is to structure it a way that protects the Expat’s investment, but still comply with the FBA and Land ownership laws.

Drew explained that as a result of the Asian financial crisis of 1997, the FBA was created for the purpose of encouraging foreign investors to create businesses that would employ Thai citizens. Thais could then learn from the technology and business practices brought in by the investors. The FBA allowed foreigners to own up to 49% of the shares in a Company Limited. The foreigner was expected to get a work permit to be the managing director and was required to employ at least 4 Thais. Although the companies were expected to have employees, be operating a business, and paying taxes, no Government agency or official was checking on this. Further, when the company acquired land, the Land Office did not require any documentation to show compliance with the FBA. As a result, to get around the law that foreigners could not, as a general rule, own land in Thailand, it did not take the lawyers long to start creating companies with their Thai employees becoming nominee share holders to own the required 51%. The companies were then used to purchase homes. Although the Land Act has criminal penalties for Thai citizens acting as nominees for foreigners purchasing land, who was checking?

Well, about 3 years ago, Drew said he was in the Land office where there was a big commotion among the staff. It seems that Thai ministries were joining the computer age – integrating data bases from various ministries, which would allow a them to check on compliance with the FBA. As a result of this abuse of the FBA, the proposed amendments to the FBA were drafted. As drafted, companies would have 2 years to conform to the FBA as amended.

Drew said that if a foreigner had purchased property with a Thai company formed through use of nominees, there were ways to ensure compliance with the FBA and the Land Act. One method would be to have the company actually operate a business no matter how rudimentary, employ the required number of Thais, and ensure that all taxes (employment and income) are up to date. If this is not feasible, then a Thai could be made the managing director of the company, with safeguards put in place through a lease and mortgage arrangement to ensure continued possession and use of the property. Alternatively, the company could sell the property to a Thai with similar safeguards. In Thailand, a foreigner can own the structure in their own name, but not the land. Also, a foreigner can own a leasehold interest on land and can own a mortgage for money loaned to buy land.

Drew pointed out that a foreigner can loan money to a Thai person or company for the purpose of purchasing property and hold a mortgage on the property, which prevents sale of the property unless the mortgage and interest is paid. The foreigner can then lease the property for 30 years with an option for another 20 years (if the option is greater than 20 years, the lease would not be valid). The lease and the mortgage must be registered at the Land Office and this is usually done simultaneously with the Thai purchasing the property and obtaining the title deed. If there is a mortgage, the foreigner, as the mortgage holder, usually retains physical custody of the original land title document. He also strongly recommends that the foreigner get a “power of attorney” from the Thai land owner authorizing the foreigner to act in their name to sell the property (would have to be to another Thai or a Thai company) in order to satisfy the repayment of their loan (mortgage). In the case of the lease, Drew mentioned that it should include a “right of assumption” in its provisions so that, if needed, the foreigner could transfer the lease to another party. He also recommended that the foreigner have a Thai will with provisions on who would inherit the lease and/or mortgage.

Drew concluded his talk and answered general questions from the audience. However, since each case is unique with its own set of facts and circumstances, Drew offered to make himself available at his office for free consultations on individual situations. Drew is the Managing Director of PAPPA Co., Ltd. and can be reached directly at 084-111-7999 or at the main PAPPA office on 038-301-050.

Totally and completely off topic, but as the planned Beach Road closure has now been postponed, maybe you could enlighten us on what Mr Noyes had to say on the subject of 'illegal arrangements' by foreigners to own houses? Did he have something new to impart?

Or maybe you could start a new thread and tell us about it?

Sorry Mobi but I wouldn't even attempt to summarise his long talk which was received with rapt attention and great appreciation by most of those present. It was quite technical.

Here is how the City Expats newsletter promoted the talk last week.

Now, on to what is on the program for this coming Sunday. This week we will welcome back Drew Noyes for another topic of great interest to Expats. He will talk about the ways foreigners can protect their property investments such as land, houses, and condominiums (not foreign titled) here in Thailand. His talk will focus on how Expat property owners can become compliant with the new Thailand Foreign Business Act amendments, the recent and increasing Bank of Thailand restrictions and accountancy requirements, the added Department of Business Development company limited restrictions, and the new rules handed down by the Ministry of Labor regarding work permits needed to sign Company Limited documents (including land transfers). As always, we are sure Drew’s talk will be interesting and informative.

If you look on www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com later today or tomorrow there will be a summary of the talk in the newsletter.

the scheme had been postponed.

This was in response to his enquiries about access for the club meetings.

Typical PCEC. Are you really so conceited that you believe the whole scheme has been 'postponed' so you can get to your little meeting on a Sunday morning?

Pleeeaase.

Erm.... I hold no brief for PCEC, but I don't think he said that the postponement was a result of PCEC members not having access for their meeting, but merely as a result of their enquiries, they were given the good news

Or have I missed something?

Just the way I read it Mobi. He seems to be insinuating that it was postponed due to his lord and master asking how they would get to their meetings.

Hm.... Maybe you're right

In any event, difficulties experienced by farangs getting to PCEC meetings would not even register on a minus scale of factors to take into consideration when closing Beach Road.

Actually, thinking about it, the good governor may consider it a positive.

Sorry that I didn't express myself clearly enough.

What I should have said is that enquiries were made about the exact details of which roads would be closed and from where to where. In response to that enquiry it was stated that the plan had been postponed.

It was only mentioned in passing during an extremely interesting talk by Drew Noyes on the latest developments regarding the 'illegal' arrangements by which some people have set up companies solely to own houses.

You are right Mobi I was merely trying to pass on the 'good news?' as this thread seemed unaware of the postponement.

Mind you. The ways things happen here it wouldn't surprise me that much if the road closure took place anyway.

At the Pattaya City Expats Club meeting last Sunday (Henry J Beans Pub, Beach Road) the chairman Khun Richard, announced that the scheme had been postponed.

This was in response to his enquiries about access for the club meetings.

The word 'postponed' is assumed to be a face saver for 'cancelled'.

Some cynics had already suggested that the scheme would be in operation for one weekend only, at best. And most likely would never materialise like the demolition of the illegal buildings on Walking Street. 14 years so far and they are still there tonight

Happy new year.

Hi Daedalus/ Sascha,

Many congratulations to you and your girlfriend. Some people believe that having kids is the only really worthwhile thing any of us can do in our lives. All the other things like wealth, fame, career success etc. pale into insignificance compared to the joys of parenthood. I hope he brings you great love and pleasure.

Happy days!!

Regarding DNA testing. Why? He looks Farang and you are his father. Why worry? Enjoy.

Beginner

By the way, Your written english is excellent, better than some native speakers on these forums.

Beentheredonethat I was told they don't like to fly above 9 floors. It might not be scientifically accurate but the only time we ever see them high up in this building is when they follow someone up in the lifts.

Have only seen two up here in the last two years.

We live on the beachfront and I think that helps too.

The next step? Possibly the Admin Court will dismiss the case based on the fact that VT7 is too close to the sea, even under the 100 meter rule. Then what?

I can't see how a court of law can ignore the law.

Ignore. A court cannot ignore the law. Agreed, however

Interpret. Yes a court can interpret the law especially if it is in any way ambiguous or open to expert technical definition.

Sony products are exellent as long as they work without any problems.

T

An older camera from Sony, a Mavica with Floppy drive, was having problems with the floppy drive and I gave them to Sony for to repair but forget to ask for an Quotation (I was thinking a FDD couldn't be expensive!!) and after 2 month the repair was done and cost THB 9,820, THB 600 more expensive as a new same camera at that time!

Reimer, I love to read your posts. You are a real expert and a great help to everyone. I hate to disagree with you.

But...but. Wasn't the floppy drive Mavica sold back in the 1980s? Thats over 20 years ago! How many electronics firms keep parts for

obsolete products? Thats a very long time to hold a grudge against those nice people at Sony!!

The problem with repairing any electronic product is that someone, usually a highly skilled technician, in an expensivley equipped workshop, has to actually strip the product down, diagnose the fault and fix it. It all takes expensive workshop time. Repairs are often not viable. Time to buy new.

The Japanese accept this concept much better than Europeans who often think it is wasteful to discard a newish product that breaks down. Casio watches, for example, charge pretty well the original new price for most repairs. The message is, why fix?...go and buy a new and better one.

When the product is manufactured it is most likely processed on a semi-automated assembly line which is ultra efficient and low cost. I have been in a factory in Mexico where the human intervention was minimal until the products were tested and packed.

One of the benefits of buying premium brands is that they make great efforts to ensure the build quality and specification are reliable. As you say, any product can fail but the probability of failure varies from brand to brand. I have never had a Sony product fail apart from the result of my misuse and abuse. I guess I have been lucky.

Midas. I am glad you haven't taken offence at my lighthearted comments. I don't work for Sony but I do love their products but then I have always been susceptible to the image trap. As I type on my oh so stylish Sony keyboard, I sigh with pleasure and satisfaction. Thank heavens I don't have to look at a logo like ASUS (it even sounds like ???).

Then why not buy a Vaio and make someone happy?

Because it is common sense ! For how long would they be happy based on

the comments of many people on this thread e.g " junk "

Can I apply a little amateur psychology? Is it possible that you have been 'asked to buy someone a Vaio' (thats a common enough situation in LOS...at least its not a house you have been asked for).

You baulk at the Sony prices, ie 42.000 baht upwards, and you seek justification for buying something cheaper. After all you can probably buy a laptop for 15,000 somewhere.

Why not? I have been through very similar exercises when my Thai partners have developed tastes for expensive brands that have no added appeal to me apart from the label. Good luck I hope you get away with it without damage to the relationship!

But as I write this on my third Vaio I must protest the idea that Vaios are 'junk'. Sony didn't get to be the force it is today in the world of electronics by producing junk. No doubt on the way, they have launched products that were less successful and not as good as todays offerings.

I think the current Vaio range compares with any other in terms of quality and design. They are not sold as 'bargain priced' items. They are sold at a premium price for the perceived benefits of owning a Sony. You either want one or you don't. My point is that your 'someone' does want one.

Why should we care? If the staff don't like working there, they have the right to leave to find better employment...or just go back home to the province.

Have a good look at the staff of most massage places...they look quite healthy, eat plenty and don't need my sympathy.

As I said whether or not you tip is 'up to you'.

They don't need your sympathy but they do need/appreciate your tip!

Most straight massage ladies are ordinary hard working people doing their best to make a living with little education/training or skill to lift them above minimum wage jobs. Its quite a strenuous and tiring job when done properly.

When someone tips, at whatever level, from even 20 baht upwards, it is greatly appreciated and almost always ends up in the family coffers for food, rent, school fees etc.

When a bar girl is tipped there is a much bigger probability that it will go on booze and fast living in Pattaya. Up to them.

There are of course, exceptions to this but I have known many massage ladies who endure great personal hardship and lonliness to come to Pattaya to try and earn enough to get their families out of debt.

You can take the view that its their bad luck to be born here in a poor country and its not my problem. Alternatively you can believe that its our good fortune to be in a position to give a tip that is of almost no value to us but combined with other tips has the power to help improve someone's life dramatically.

I have been asked to buy a VAIO Sony notebook for someone for Christmas

but to me I cannot see the attraction of this brand

You have been asked to buy a Vaio. Then why not buy a Vaio and make someone happy? Why would you decide that something else is what is wanted?

Sony do not set out to be the 'most bells and whistles for the price product'. You can buy many other brands if that is your buying criteria.

Sony make beautiful, well thought out consumer computers that integrate well with other Sony products. Cameras, DVD players, Video recorders, phones etc which all work together seamlessly with the plentiful Sony software provided.

Whether or not they provide value for money depends on your particular needs and wants.

Its like saying a Mercedes Benz is overpriced and underspecified compared to a Ford.

True in one sense but show me the person who would rather drive a Ford.

[quote name='njpski'

A 300 baht massage for one hour, house gets 190, masseuse 110.

I am very familiar with one large and successful Spa in Pattaya.

The girls get 60 baht per Thai massage. They get no basic pay, holiday or sick pay. They work 12 hour shifts and if they have no customers then they have spent twelve hours waiting for nothing. They may not leave the premises during work time.

They buy their own uniforms, pay for training and leave a deposit or guarantee of 3,000 baht with the management when joining.

The expectation of receiving tips is the reason some of them have left children and partners at home in Chang Mai and Isaan. The basic wages hardly pay for their rent and food whilst living here in Pattaya.

Generous tippers such as an American lady who left US$20 are talked about, appreciated and celebrated. Poor tippers (often Indians) are tolerated but resented.

Why tip? Up to you.

Crack on MS Rail Simulator copy DVD eventually leads to message 'not original DVD' and 'next' button won't work.

Seller at TukCom suggests get XP Pro...Vista no good. His English and my Thai left me even more confused.

Can't find web advice anywhere as they all assume lots of computer knowledge which I don't have.