beginner

1/. I don't believe in enriching landlords and I'm not scared of the dark.

2/. But of all the people I know here that rent, I haven't met one yet (honestly) who is renting because of concern over the ownership laws, they all rent because they can't afford to buy.

3/. Only one of the above is certain, that a landlord will take your money and it will never be yours again.

Burgernev

About 1. The average return on property, as far as you can tell in this land of half-truths, outright lies and dodgy statistics , is probably less than the return on bank deposited money in safe offshore accounts.

Averages are just that and include some properties that have exceeded the average and done very well but many others that have failed to achieve a reasonable rate of return.

As you mention 'afford to buy' I assume you are talking about small scale landlords and investors and not mega corporations with large financial resources.

Landlords often claim that they have made good returns but this is not really true unless they have actually sold the property and received the capital appreciation they claim.

The East side of Pattaya is littered with unfinished projects, completed but unsaleable houses and also village estates with a large proportion of houses for re-sale. Most of them are unsaleable at the asking prices. The owners do not want to sell at the market price as this will actually capitalise their losses. As long as the house remains unsold they can claim they have lost nothing and have made a capital gain.

About 2. Pattaya and district must have hundreds, if not thousands of farangs who could buy property at the blink of an eye if they wanted to. They do not for many reasons including the sheer convenience of being able to move from one rental to another with minimum hassle and inconvenience if they want to. A year at the beach, followed by a year at a golf course followed by city centre location etc.

Do you really think that the kind of people who happily pay 60, 70 or even 100,000 baht and more monthly rent can't afford to buy?

They do not "all rent bacause they can't afford to buy".

About 3. You can say the same about developers who have developed wonderfully effective marketing strategies to part the innocent from their money. They may eventually get some or even all of it back again but if they rented and kept their capital intact then they could access it at will.

The article by William Jarvis includes the advice '3. enough cash not to worry about the money you just invested in the Thai property. It is the last of these you should keep in the forefront of your mind: never invest in Thai property more than you are willing to walk away from'.

That is another reason some people do not buy. Its also the reason why some people do buy. The loss of a few million baht will not give them any sleepless nights should it ever happen and in the meantime they have the Thai version of 'property ownership'.

I bought one from Indochine, something I will regret for the rest of my life

Why is that?

Do you mean that you wished you had bought a house? Surely not?

Or do you mean that you will regret buying (rather than renting) a condo?

That is a common enough scenario. Condos can be very easy to buy but very hard to sell again.

Or do you mean that something happened between you and Indochine that you regret?

Why don't you sell it cheap? Take your loss as a lesson learned and move on. Regretting something for the rest of your life seems like a huge waste of emotional energy.

Rent somewhere pleasant that suits your particular needs and enjoy life. If it fails to please, rent somewhere else.

Until now, I had no idea you were a Justice on the Supreme Administrative Court

Ho ho Very good.

I am glad that you have a sense of humour. One of us is going to need it before this saga is over.

Property Plus was ordered by the court to remove floors from eleven buildings that breached height limits. The deconstruction is taking place.

Yes agreed. But Proprty Plus did not have a building permit for high rise buildings. They changed the design after receiving their low rise permit.

He said the excess height was the result of new designs,...........

the building heights exceed the 23-metre maximum for low-rises under the Building Control Act. Buildings higher than 23 metres need high-rise building construction permits. But Plus could not change the permits easily since high-rise permits require a different setback distance, the space from a building to the boundary of a plot, which varies depending on its height, of at least six metres.

VT7 have not changed the design and they have permisiion to build a high rise which is progressing rapidly.

The VT7 building is 100% legal.

Dear prospero

Your question "the history of Thai courts in removing illegal portions of builds?" When I asked our Bangkok attorneys a seemlier question they sight three samples. Since their been one example talked about in the news paper. I had a meeting with one of are Bangkok Thai advisors who was involved in removing a illegal building in Bangkok.

So which buildings are you referring to?

Surely not the New World Department store? (after partial collapse of illegal extension).

It doesn't offer much encouragement for those hoping VT7 will be removed. see below

BMA compromises on New World demolition order - The Nation, October 22, 2003

[Even after the decades of stalling and the death of a tenant, the city still could not make the New World Department store comply with demolition orders.]

The demolition of the New World building, which partially collapsed in June, has been delayed due to a dispute between the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and Kaewfa Shopping Arcade Co Ltd over who should do the work, a Civil Court source said yesterday.

But, the BMA in court compromised by asking the company to demolish the building in Bang Lumphu themselves with the agency in a supervisory role to ensure safety, the source said...

It would be a great help to us all if you could give the exact details of when, where and why they were deemed illegal and exactly what was removed.

What do you suggest should be done with surplus cash at the present inflationary time?

buy buy buy.

Ok. Egg6447. But what what what?

Property is too illiquid and most people living here probably have enough already both in Farangland and here in our guest location.

Stocks and shares need too much micro management and RBOS may be correct about the downward trajectory.

The ideal situation for a typical Thailand retiree is security and ease of access to take instant advantage of any 'too good to miss situations' that may crop up.

There will be lots if there really is a calamitous financial shakeout around the world as some are predicting.

So, what what what would you buy buy buy?

If the court does so rule, it may come as a surprise in places like Phuket, where you never see tall buildings closer that 200 meters from the shore. Hua Hin the same.

Really?

So the Hilton Hotel at Hua Hin is 200 meters from the shore is it?

A quick look at Google Earth will show you that there are many high rise building closer than 200 meters to the beach around Hua Hin.

I agree William Osbourne, anyone with half a brain and an internet connection would be better of doing their own research and investing. No-ones ever gonna care about your money as much as you do! regardless of what those commission based financial advisors say!

Hill Billy you wrote "A question to all you financial experts out there--in view of this topic, and with regard to the advice that has been given for some time , is it now time to reduce all UK savings accounts to a sum no greater than 35K sterling--or, as some advisors say, is this paranoid overkill? Any views?"

If anyone has 35k in a UK savings account you must have far less than the half a brain requisite required for personal wealth managament :-)

UK Offshore Bank Sterling Savings accounts offer around 6.3% instant access and are as risky as the institution that offers that rate. (Nationwide International).

Why would Hill Billy only have far less than half a brain if he is using such accounts?

What do you suggest should be done with surplus cash at the present inflationary time?

<br />It doesn't look very promising for Lehman Brothers after having read this item <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7444185.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7444185.stm</a><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Raimon Land is also having a tough go.

http://www.bangkokpost.net/Business/11Jun2008_biz49.php

But hold on. Beginner is warming up to sing another chorus of "The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow"!

Yes, interesting times indeed.

As the sage said, if you haven't got problems, you're not in business. I have no inside knowledge whatsoever of Raimon Land but one has to wonder about a company that needs to refinance in the middle of a selling/ building frenzy as they did last year.

I wish them well.

OK I'll sing

The sun'll come out

Tomorrow

Bet your bottom dollar

That tomorrow

There'll be sun!

Just thinkin' about

Tomorrow

Clears away the cobwebs,

And the sorrow

'Til there's none!

When I'm stuck a day

That's gray,

And lonely,

I just stick out my chin

And Grin,

And Say,

Oh

The sun'll come out

Tomorrow

If you will sing another Annie song. Its A Hard Knock Life

It's the hard-knock life for us

It's the hard-knock life for us

No one cares for you a smidge

When your in an orphanage

It's the hard-knock life

It's the hard-knock life

It's the hard-knock life!

According to today's Nation, there seems to be quite a bit of creative destruction going on in Bangkok. The failure rate for condos is nearing 50%.

Maybe the developer of Ocean 1 can chop off 45 stories or so.

What do you think, Beginner?

I'm afraid that I had never heard of Aquarius and knew nothing of their expertise or track record.

But if I were in the Project Management Business as is Aquarius Estate Co I would be very satisfied with the publicity generated by the article you refer to. Maybe it will generate a little more work for their three year old business and help it over its initial growing pains.

Here is some of its 'wisdom'.

After conducting a study during the past five months, the building consultant said even inner Sukhumvit, an area once deemed immune to downturns, "no longer guarantees success". "The average take-up rate for Bangkok condominiums is now 54 per cent," he said. "That is considerably lower than about 70 per cent for last year." "Of the 50,000 units that are expected to be launched this year, about 46 per cent won't be sold," he deduced from recent statistics. "One out of every two developments could fail."

So you ask. What do I think?

My answer. Not a lot...about such a journalistic piece of extrapolation and un-referenced, in house statistics.

Fortunately Ocean 1 is not being built in Bangkok but in a fine general location, soon to be dramatically improved and developed, near the sea. It will be a lasting joy to all those lucky enough to be able to buy a unit, (and lucky enough to be in a position to risk losing their capital without any great financial trauma should it fail).

As I have said before. No large scale project is completed without problems and difficulties. Ocean 1 will be no different.

My view/experience of risk taking is that for every two or three failures, the one winner takes care of all the other losses.

If someone is totally risk averse then the best course of action for them is to do nothing.

Why would anyone expect 'a guaranteed success' in any risky free market business environment? In Thailand of all places!!

The only certain way to succeed is to do nothing. As Homer Simpson once said, Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

Are you related to Homer Prospero? Just kidding.

More information on the 'new model'. How reliable is this source? I am not sure.

It seems that it is just a revamped Air Blade.

The difference is the paint job which will be called Phoenix Edition to retain its designation as King of Cool. Everything else remains the same.

[ but nowhere does it provide evidence to support your assertion that "the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII," I think that a closer reading of your reference will reveal it means something else. <br /><br />As discussed before. One

I can't remember where I read the reference to World War II. I do a lot of reading and I haven't been able to retrieve the source. So let's forget that one.

Was this it? Its not the same thing as your statement

NEW YORK--Americans' percentage of equity in their homes has fallen below 50% for the first time on record since 1945, the Federal Reserve said Thursday.

Homeowners' percentage of equity slipped to a revised lower 49.6% in the second quarter of 2007, the central bank reported in its quarterly U.S. Flow of Funds Accounts, and declined further to 47.9% in the fourth quarter -- the third straight quarter it was under 50%. That marks the first time homeowners' debt on their houses exceeds their equity since the Fed started tracking the data in 1945.

Page 13 of yesterday's International Herald Tribune is the source for my quotation, and I stand by it. It is accompanied by a graph which shows that the decline in the median value of US homes is BY FAR greater than at any time since 1968. That period takes in our adult lifetimes. Perhaps you can reveal to me what a closer reading of the reference might reveal. I think it speaks for itself.

No problem here. My only comment is, So what? Values go up, values go down. Median value was $20,100 in 1968. $185,200 2004 and $229,100 2007 but now falling as you point out.

I really don't understand your paragraph on aesthetics. Are you saying that there are no standards whatsoever for what is pleasing in architecture and what is ugly? Is it really as simplistic as chaq'on a son gout ? Does that mean that council flats in Basingstoke or a strip mall in Kansas are in the same league as the Rockefeller Center or Salisbury Cathedral?

And the Getty. Are you talking about the neo-classical museum or Richard Meir's Getty Center? In either case, you are comparing a set of buildings created as a trust to posterity by architects with a money-is-no-object brief to clichéd boxes designed by hack architects with little but short-term profit in mind.

Three words. Function and form.

Ah, yes, the Russians! They and their rubles will be our salvation! That might explain why the View Talay blocks look so much like Moscow housing projects.

Very good. Very funny. But aren't they mainly buying in Northpoint and other upmarket buildings?

I'm glad you agree with me about irrational exuberance and market corrections. The great thing about creative destruction is that it rids us of frivolous ideas like 91 story condo towers on postage-stamp pieces of land. The more money is awash in the system, the more stupidity.

I, for one, didn't come to the East Coast of Thailand to gaze up at oversize condominiums that block the sun. If that's why you came here, I have two words for you: Miami Beach.

Sorry but Miami Beach is not for me. Not relaxed enough. If I wanted Art Deco I would go to Mumbai or Napier New Zealand.

Two better words. Surfers Paradise.

Bonne chance monsieur.

<br />

[ the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII,

<br /><br />Do you have some evidence of this?<br /><br />Are you saying that the current value of UK housing stock (around 4.6 trillion Halifax or 3.96 billion Government Blue Book) is as low as any figure since 1945?<br /><br />Hyperbole is fun but if one is concerned with accumulating wealth rather than just a home; according to your toilet flushing statement, this could be the best time since 1945 to buy property. <br /><br />Pattaya will survive and prosper. Capitalist creative destruction will continue and the sun will rise again tomorrow.<br />Hello VT7, Hello Ocean 1. Hello Northpoint. Hello Hilton Towers. Farewell to the old and run down and decrepit. You served us well but now its time to embrace change and enjoy the pleasures of the new.<br />Welcome all and many more projects presently going through their birth pangs, Welcome to the real world of human creativity, endevour and progress.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

There certainly is destruction. I don't know about the creative part.

http://www.realestateabc.com/outlook/overall.htm

I do know there was a huge property bust in Pattaya, in fact, in all of Asia, about ten years ago. Many buildings never got finished. A lot of happy idiots who thought they would be accumulating wealth were flushed down the toilet. Many of them probably listened to hyperbolic spinners of fantasy like you.

Hello lots of broken dreams and empty wallets. There's a sucker born every minute.

The real world of "human creativity, endeavour, and progress" has little to do with erecting tacky monstrosities by the sea.

Hello Again Prospero.

Its always a pleasure to cross quill pens with you.

Your link is very interesting but nowhere does it provide evidence to support your assertion that "the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII," I think that a closer reading of your reference will reveal it means something else.

As discussed before. One mans 'tacky monstrosity by the sea' can also be another man's awe-inspiring, spirit-lifting structure of great beauty. eg Getty Museum in LA

One mans unmade bed is another man's valuable art work.

One man's monstrous carbuncle is another man's pride and joy.

Why are you so convinced that Pattaya property faces disaster rather than a mere overdue correction to smooth out the irrational market exhuberance that has developed over the last few years?

The very things that attracted you and I and thousands of others to this area are still here. They are now attracting people from Russia and other newly cash rich countries. The sun may be setting on US or Euro expats but there are lots of others to take their place.

A friend just went to buy an Airblade and was advised by the salesman (a friend of his fiance) to wait "a couple of weeks for the new model".

The salesman also had a Thai brochure but would not part with it.

Is this going to be something to match and compete with the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance's bigger engine and speed?

The fact that a salesman actually postponed a sale makes me think it might be true.

Has anyone heard or seen anything about this new model?

[ the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII,

Do you have some evidence of this?

Are you saying that the current value of UK housing stock (around 4.6 trillion Halifax or 3.96 billion Government Blue Book) is as low as any figure since 1945?

Hyperbole is fun but if one is concerned with accumulating wealth rather than just a home; according to your toilet flushing statement, this could be the best time since 1945 to buy property.

Pattaya will survive and prosper. Capitalist creative destruction will continue and the sun will rise again tomorrow.

Hello VT7, Hello Ocean 1. Hello Northpoint. Hello Hilton Towers. Farewell to the old and run down and decrepit. You served us well but now its time to embrace change and enjoy the pleasures of the new.

Welcome all and many more projects presently going through their birth pangs, Welcome to the real world of human creativity, endevour and progress.

>>Why don`t you go along to the Pattaya Expats Club? <<

Because they are a cult of lonely weirdos ,who will only make the OP feel even more lonely .

There are two main expat clubs.

The Pattaya City Expats Club also meets on Sunday mornings in Henry J Beans at the Amari Orchid Resort, Beach Road near Soi 1. See .pattayacityexpatsclub.com

Breakfast and coffee starts at 9.30am. The actual meeting with speaker starts at 10.30am. After the main speaker(s) there is an Open Forum for exchange of advice, information, jokes and local news it usually ends around noon.

Its very informal and is much more of a social club than business oriented.

I do not recognise your description of the very sociable and outgoing members.

Have you ever actually attended and taken part in any of the many subgroups? ie golfing group, fishing, breakfast discussion group. computer, photography, writers, investment, factory trips, touchy topic discussions, pool players, thai lessons, cookery lessons,book exchange, DVD library, restaurant Members Dinners, trips out in general and a cross cultural volunteer group, boat group, etc.

It doesn't suit everyone but its members are hardly 'lonely weirdos'.

You will get a warm welcome if you go along and make yourself known as a new attender.

Has anyone ridden the New 2008 Suzuki 125 Hayake.

Is it the same bike that is referred to below as Suzuki 16.

Where are Suzuki 125 manufactured? Would you trust a Suzuki as much as a Yamaha or Honda.

Does anyone have strong views or knowledge of Suzuki versus other brands of scooter?

I think renting is the way to go ,as long as you invest the money you would have paid for the house .eg. on line banks returning 8.5 % . But there are so many reasons to buy as well . perhaps the partner has land you can build on with a lease . or a very good loan through a company bank.

8.5%?? What online banks are these?

ASB New Zealand. try asb.co.nz look at savings rates.

Fastsaver FastSaver

Balance Rate All Credit Balances 8.00 % p.a.

You can operate the account on the internet. The biggest risk factor is the exchange rate but it has recently been quite stable against the baht.

It seems hard to believe that anyone truly thinks the cost of housing and the cost of rent will not go up for the next 30 years. With construction cost going up 15 to 20% a year how can prices stay the same?

Maintenance costs of condos are also subject to inflation.

The current rate in Raimon's Pattaya properties is 40 baht sqm. A 100 sm unit is 4000 per month, 250 sm is 10,000.

In certain Jomtien properties, trying to get long overdue maintenance done has run into the reluctance of some owners to pay maintenance fees and they also resist all attempts to increase the fee in line with actual costs.

Some owners simply do not have the cash. They used up their resources buying and are now trapped in units that could only be sold with great difficulty and probably at an overall loss.

Prime units in prime locations are less risky but in Thailand it is a great deal easier to buy than to sell.

Compound interest means your money just stays still in real terms; every withdrawal diminishes your wealth.

Not necessarily. It depends on the rate of inflation and the rate of interest you receive.

You can buy Index Linked Certificates from UK National Savings up to 15k per issue. Two issues are available at present which means that 30k can be saved with a guarantee of increasing in line with the old RPI not new CPI. After one complete year a rate of interest is also applied meaning that you beat inflation as measured by RPI.

Several issues are normally released each year and you can buy 15k in each one. Totally tax free. You are not required to mention your holdings on your UK tax return.

You can also get 6.25% tax free in offshore accounts such as Nationwide International. This exceeds the current rate of inflation in the UK.

Higher rates can be obtained by taking more risk.

The biggest risk to your wealth if you are an expat with income from abroad is probably exchange rate fluctuations which can make a huge difference and which are very difficult to predict and hedge against effectively.

On the rent versus buy conundrum. Some people simply feel more secure owning a condo and the financial considerations take second place. Good luck to them.

Others claim that many condos and houses can be rented for possibly 3% of the capital value. Properties in really desirable locations such as beachfront may achieve more but rarely more than the rate of interest on perfectly safe and risk free offshore bank savings accounts. So they argue, why tie up capital in an illiquid 'investment' in a very uncertain political climate?

Renters also have freedom to relocate at short notice and with minimum stress and cost. This can be quite an advantage in Thailand where the neighbours from hel_l or a noisy building site/karaoke bar can pop up nearby without warning.

Here is a summary of Drew Noyes talk to the PCEC some time ago.

The two years grace period to comply with the law expires October 2008. What will happen then? Maybe very little or maybe lots of legal activity.

To answer the original question 'How dangerous is it to own property with a company?'. The answer seems to be that no one really knows. But you can't fall over a cliff edge if you never walk along the cliff. You can't have your house confiscated on a legal technicality if you don't buy one using legal subterfuges. A first principal of law is that you may not do by indirect means what you are unable tro do by direct means. In other words a acheme to get round the law is bound to be struck down if challenged in court.

We ended the year 2007 with the 2nd largest attendance in our Club’s history - 130 people.

Gary Hacker introduced our former Chairman and fellow member, Drew Noyes, to give us information on property ownership when it is held in the name of a Thai Company Limited and things you can do to comply with the pending amendments to the Foreign Business Act (FBA). Drew started his talk by saying don’t be afraid to own a home in Thailand. It is still possible to have and occupy a home in Thailand. The key is to structure it a way that protects the Expat’s investment, but still comply with the FBA and Land ownership laws.

Drew explained that as a result of the Asian financial crisis of 1997, the FBA was created for the purpose of encouraging foreign investors to create businesses that would employ Thai citizens. Thais could then learn from the technology and business practices brought in by the investors. The FBA allowed foreigners to own up to 49% of the shares in a Company Limited. The foreigner was expected to get a work permit to be the managing director and was required to employ at least 4 Thais. Although the companies were expected to have employees, be operating a business, and paying taxes, no Government agency or official was checking on this. Further, when the company acquired land, the Land Office did not require any documentation to show compliance with the FBA. As a result, to get around the law that foreigners could not, as a general rule, own land in Thailand, it did not take the lawyers long to start creating companies with their Thai employees becoming nominee share holders to own the required 51%. The companies were then used to purchase homes. Although the Land Act has criminal penalties for Thai citizens acting as nominees for foreigners purchasing land, who was checking?

Well, about 3 years ago, Drew said he was in the Land office where there was a big commotion among the staff. It seems that Thai ministries were joining the computer age – integrating data bases from various ministries, which would allow a them to check on compliance with the FBA. As a result of this abuse of the FBA, the proposed amendments to the FBA were drafted. As drafted, companies would have 2 years to conform to the FBA as amended.

Drew said that if a foreigner had purchased property with a Thai company formed through use of nominees, there were ways to ensure compliance with the FBA and the Land Act. One method would be to have the company actually operate a business no matter how rudimentary, employ the required number of Thais, and ensure that all taxes (employment and income) are up to date. If this is not feasible, then a Thai could be made the managing director of the company, with safeguards put in place through a lease and mortgage arrangement to ensure continued possession and use of the property. Alternatively, the company could sell the property to a Thai with similar safeguards. In Thailand, a foreigner can own the structure in their own name, but not the land. Also, a foreigner can own a leasehold interest on land and can own a mortgage for money loaned to buy land.

Drew pointed out that a foreigner can loan money to a Thai person or company for the purpose of purchasing property and hold a mortgage on the property, which prevents sale of the property unless the mortgage and interest is paid. The foreigner can then lease the property for 30 years with an option for another 20 years (if the option is greater than 20 years, the lease would not be valid). The lease and the mortgage must be registered at the Land Office and this is usually done simultaneously with the Thai purchasing the property and obtaining the title deed. If there is a mortgage, the foreigner, as the mortgage holder, usually retains physical custody of the original land title document. He also strongly recommends that the foreigner get a “power of attorney” from the Thai land owner authorizing the foreigner to act in their name to sell the property (would have to be to another Thai or a Thai company) in order to satisfy the repayment of their loan (mortgage). In the case of the lease, Drew mentioned that it should include a “right of assumption” in its provisions so that, if needed, the foreigner could transfer the lease to another party. He also recommended that the foreigner have a Thai will with provisions on who would inherit the lease and/or mortgage.

Drew concluded his talk and answered general questions from the audience.

As to the distance from the Farside, where I too live, once you get over the psychological barrier of the traffic, it really isn't that bad. In the mornings, I can get down there in 10 mins. Returning home, even at mid-day or early afternoon, takes only 15-20. So it's really not that bad.

How far past the Darkside is the Farside?

What method of transport enables you to get to Villa in ten minutes from the farside of the darkside?

Can it be that The Space-Time Continuum of the Special Theory of Relativity doesn't apply in the Farside?

Ten minutes? Ten minutes? The force must be with you.

// good interesting views down Pattaya Beach Road from South Side of building night and day //

Great sea views and breezes....use of air con optional. Fresh clean air free.

Are you a reseller "Beginner" ? I do think so.

With such big windows facing south and west, these apartments must be like an oven all the afternoon and evening. I really doubt that you can get fresh air by only openining windows...

Moreover, plans of these apartments are really "tortuous" : Too many walls and corner for so smalls apartments.

And I do not speak about price : more than 100 kBaht/sqm is ridiculous (to me) for such a condo.

Pattaya46

I am not a seller or a reseller. I am just trying to assist the OP.

You are rather cycnical Pattaya 46. I am surprised that you haven't accused the OP of being a realtor trawling for listing material.

The price of 100kbaht/sqm may be ridiculous to you but the condo market is very diverse and many other people think that it is a bargain price to live in that particular buillding in that specific location. Some of the North Shore 250 sqm tower units have been sold for considerably more than 100k/sqm as have other front units. If the buyers stick to Thailand rule number one of only buying something that they can afford to walk away from, then no harm is done.

The unit designs are not perfect but show me some that are. There is very little choice on Pattaya Beach Road and VT6 is aimed at another cheaper market altogether.

No doubt the OP will look around for something that suits his particular needs and priorities and that is why others have helpfully suggested condos in Jomtien and Naklua.

I am moving to Pattaya. can anyone recommend a nice sea view condo in or around Jomtiem / Pattaya up to 7m baht.

You can just about buy something in North Shore with that budget.

Absolute beachfront, good interesting views down Pattaya Beach Road from South Side of building night and day.

Instant transport outside on Baht Bus main route. Active and able management committee.

Great sea views and breezes....use of air con optional. Fresh clean air free.

Noise..well its Pattaya. Not a quiet place.

People have moved out of Jomtien Grand Condotel because of noise from VT5 fitting out. Noise and Thailand go together like peaches and cream.

For peace and quiet, head up to Naklua as suggested above. The Sanctuary looks good but not finished yet.