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<br /><br />Do you have some evidence of this?<br /><br />Are you saying that the current value of UK housing stock (around 4.6 trillion Halifax or 3.96 billion Government Blue Book) is as low as any figure since 1945?<br /><br />Hyperbole is fun but if one is concerned with accumulating wealth rather than just a home; according to your toilet flushing statement, this could be the best time since 1945 to buy property. <br /><br />Pattaya will survive and prosper. Capitalist creative destruction will continue and the sun will rise again tomorrow.<br />Hello VT7, Hello Ocean 1. Hello Northpoint. Hello Hilton Towers. Farewell to the old and run down and decrepit. You served us well but now its time to embrace change and enjoy the pleasures of the new.<br />Welcome all and many more projects presently going through their birth pangs, Welcome to the real world of human creativity, endevour and progress.<br />[ the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII,There certainly is destruction. I don't know about the creative part.
http://www.realestateabc.com/outlook/overall.htm
I do know there was a huge property bust in Pattaya, in fact, in all of Asia, about ten years ago. Many buildings never got finished. A lot of happy idiots who thought they would be accumulating wealth were flushed down the toilet. Many of them probably listened to hyperbolic spinners of fantasy like you.
Hello lots of broken dreams and empty wallets. There's a sucker born every minute.
The real world of "human creativity, endeavour, and progress" has little to do with erecting tacky monstrosities by the sea.
Hello Again Prospero.
Its always a pleasure to cross quill pens with you.
Your link is very interesting but nowhere does it provide evidence to support your assertion that "the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII," I think that a closer reading of your reference will reveal it means something else.
As discussed before. One mans 'tacky monstrosity by the sea' can also be another man's awe-inspiring, spirit-lifting structure of great beauty. eg Getty Museum in LA
One mans unmade bed is another man's valuable art work.
One man's monstrous carbuncle is another man's pride and joy.
Why are you so convinced that Pattaya property faces disaster rather than a mere overdue correction to smooth out the irrational market exhuberance that has developed over the last few years?
The very things that attracted you and I and thousands of others to this area are still here. They are now attracting people from Russia and other newly cash rich countries. The sun may be setting on US or Euro expats but there are lots of others to take their place.
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A friend just went to buy an Airblade and was advised by the salesman (a friend of his fiance) to wait "a couple of weeks for the new model".
The salesman also had a Thai brochure but would not part with it.
Is this going to be something to match and compete with the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance's bigger engine and speed?
The fact that a salesman actually postponed a sale makes me think it might be true.
Has anyone heard or seen anything about this new model?
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[ the value of property in the US and UK is the lowest since WWII,
Do you have some evidence of this?
Are you saying that the current value of UK housing stock (around 4.6 trillion Halifax or 3.96 billion Government Blue Book) is as low as any figure since 1945?
Hyperbole is fun but if one is concerned with accumulating wealth rather than just a home; according to your toilet flushing statement, this could be the best time since 1945 to buy property.
Pattaya will survive and prosper. Capitalist creative destruction will continue and the sun will rise again tomorrow.
Hello VT7, Hello Ocean 1. Hello Northpoint. Hello Hilton Towers. Farewell to the old and run down and decrepit. You served us well but now its time to embrace change and enjoy the pleasures of the new.
Welcome all and many more projects presently going through their birth pangs, Welcome to the real world of human creativity, endevour and progress.
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>>Why don`t you go along to the Pattaya Expats Club? <<
Because they are a cult of lonely weirdos ,who will only make the OP feel even more lonely .
There are two main expat clubs.
The Pattaya City Expats Club also meets on Sunday mornings in Henry J Beans at the Amari Orchid Resort, Beach Road near Soi 1. See .pattayacityexpatsclub.com
Breakfast and coffee starts at 9.30am. The actual meeting with speaker starts at 10.30am. After the main speaker(s) there is an Open Forum for exchange of advice, information, jokes and local news it usually ends around noon.
Its very informal and is much more of a social club than business oriented.
I do not recognise your description of the very sociable and outgoing members.
Have you ever actually attended and taken part in any of the many subgroups? ie golfing group, fishing, breakfast discussion group. computer, photography, writers, investment, factory trips, touchy topic discussions, pool players, thai lessons, cookery lessons,book exchange, DVD library, restaurant Members Dinners, trips out in general and a cross cultural volunteer group, boat group, etc.
It doesn't suit everyone but its members are hardly 'lonely weirdos'.
You will get a warm welcome if you go along and make yourself known as a new attender.
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Has anyone ridden the New 2008 Suzuki 125 Hayake.
Is it the same bike that is referred to below as Suzuki 16.
Where are Suzuki 125 manufactured? Would you trust a Suzuki as much as a Yamaha or Honda.
Does anyone have strong views or knowledge of Suzuki versus other brands of scooter?
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I think renting is the way to go ,as long as you invest the money you would have paid for the house .eg. on line banks returning 8.5 % . But there are so many reasons to buy as well . perhaps the partner has land you can build on with a lease . or a very good loan through a company bank.
8.5%?? What online banks are these?
ASB New Zealand. try asb.co.nz look at savings rates.
Fastsaver FastSaver
Balance Rate All Credit Balances 8.00 % p.a.
You can operate the account on the internet. The biggest risk factor is the exchange rate but it has recently been quite stable against the baht.
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It seems hard to believe that anyone truly thinks the cost of housing and the cost of rent will not go up for the next 30 years. With construction cost going up 15 to 20% a year how can prices stay the same?
Maintenance costs of condos are also subject to inflation.
The current rate in Raimon's Pattaya properties is 40 baht sqm. A 100 sm unit is 4000 per month, 250 sm is 10,000.
In certain Jomtien properties, trying to get long overdue maintenance done has run into the reluctance of some owners to pay maintenance fees and they also resist all attempts to increase the fee in line with actual costs.
Some owners simply do not have the cash. They used up their resources buying and are now trapped in units that could only be sold with great difficulty and probably at an overall loss.
Prime units in prime locations are less risky but in Thailand it is a great deal easier to buy than to sell.
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Compound interest means your money just stays still in real terms; every withdrawal diminishes your wealth.
Not necessarily. It depends on the rate of inflation and the rate of interest you receive.
You can buy Index Linked Certificates from UK National Savings up to 15k per issue. Two issues are available at present which means that 30k can be saved with a guarantee of increasing in line with the old RPI not new CPI. After one complete year a rate of interest is also applied meaning that you beat inflation as measured by RPI.
Several issues are normally released each year and you can buy 15k in each one. Totally tax free. You are not required to mention your holdings on your UK tax return.
You can also get 6.25% tax free in offshore accounts such as Nationwide International. This exceeds the current rate of inflation in the UK.
Higher rates can be obtained by taking more risk.
The biggest risk to your wealth if you are an expat with income from abroad is probably exchange rate fluctuations which can make a huge difference and which are very difficult to predict and hedge against effectively.
On the rent versus buy conundrum. Some people simply feel more secure owning a condo and the financial considerations take second place. Good luck to them.
Others claim that many condos and houses can be rented for possibly 3% of the capital value. Properties in really desirable locations such as beachfront may achieve more but rarely more than the rate of interest on perfectly safe and risk free offshore bank savings accounts. So they argue, why tie up capital in an illiquid 'investment' in a very uncertain political climate?
Renters also have freedom to relocate at short notice and with minimum stress and cost. This can be quite an advantage in Thailand where the neighbours from hel_l or a noisy building site/karaoke bar can pop up nearby without warning.
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Here is a summary of Drew Noyes talk to the PCEC some time ago.
The two years grace period to comply with the law expires October 2008. What will happen then? Maybe very little or maybe lots of legal activity.
To answer the original question 'How dangerous is it to own property with a company?'. The answer seems to be that no one really knows. But you can't fall over a cliff edge if you never walk along the cliff. You can't have your house confiscated on a legal technicality if you don't buy one using legal subterfuges. A first principal of law is that you may not do by indirect means what you are unable tro do by direct means. In other words a acheme to get round the law is bound to be struck down if challenged in court.
We ended the year 2007 with the 2nd largest attendance in our Club’s history - 130 people.
Gary Hacker introduced our former Chairman and fellow member, Drew Noyes, to give us information on property ownership when it is held in the name of a Thai Company Limited and things you can do to comply with the pending amendments to the Foreign Business Act (FBA). Drew started his talk by saying don’t be afraid to own a home in Thailand. It is still possible to have and occupy a home in Thailand. The key is to structure it a way that protects the Expat’s investment, but still comply with the FBA and Land ownership laws.
Drew explained that as a result of the Asian financial crisis of 1997, the FBA was created for the purpose of encouraging foreign investors to create businesses that would employ Thai citizens. Thais could then learn from the technology and business practices brought in by the investors. The FBA allowed foreigners to own up to 49% of the shares in a Company Limited. The foreigner was expected to get a work permit to be the managing director and was required to employ at least 4 Thais. Although the companies were expected to have employees, be operating a business, and paying taxes, no Government agency or official was checking on this. Further, when the company acquired land, the Land Office did not require any documentation to show compliance with the FBA. As a result, to get around the law that foreigners could not, as a general rule, own land in Thailand, it did not take the lawyers long to start creating companies with their Thai employees becoming nominee share holders to own the required 51%. The companies were then used to purchase homes. Although the Land Act has criminal penalties for Thai citizens acting as nominees for foreigners purchasing land, who was checking?
Well, about 3 years ago, Drew said he was in the Land office where there was a big commotion among the staff. It seems that Thai ministries were joining the computer age – integrating data bases from various ministries, which would allow a them to check on compliance with the FBA. As a result of this abuse of the FBA, the proposed amendments to the FBA were drafted. As drafted, companies would have 2 years to conform to the FBA as amended.
Drew said that if a foreigner had purchased property with a Thai company formed through use of nominees, there were ways to ensure compliance with the FBA and the Land Act. One method would be to have the company actually operate a business no matter how rudimentary, employ the required number of Thais, and ensure that all taxes (employment and income) are up to date. If this is not feasible, then a Thai could be made the managing director of the company, with safeguards put in place through a lease and mortgage arrangement to ensure continued possession and use of the property. Alternatively, the company could sell the property to a Thai with similar safeguards. In Thailand, a foreigner can own the structure in their own name, but not the land. Also, a foreigner can own a leasehold interest on land and can own a mortgage for money loaned to buy land.
Drew pointed out that a foreigner can loan money to a Thai person or company for the purpose of purchasing property and hold a mortgage on the property, which prevents sale of the property unless the mortgage and interest is paid. The foreigner can then lease the property for 30 years with an option for another 20 years (if the option is greater than 20 years, the lease would not be valid). The lease and the mortgage must be registered at the Land Office and this is usually done simultaneously with the Thai purchasing the property and obtaining the title deed. If there is a mortgage, the foreigner, as the mortgage holder, usually retains physical custody of the original land title document. He also strongly recommends that the foreigner get a “power of attorney” from the Thai land owner authorizing the foreigner to act in their name to sell the property (would have to be to another Thai or a Thai company) in order to satisfy the repayment of their loan (mortgage). In the case of the lease, Drew mentioned that it should include a “right of assumption” in its provisions so that, if needed, the foreigner could transfer the lease to another party. He also recommended that the foreigner have a Thai will with provisions on who would inherit the lease and/or mortgage.
Drew concluded his talk and answered general questions from the audience.
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As to the distance from the Farside, where I too live, once you get over the psychological barrier of the traffic, it really isn't that bad. In the mornings, I can get down there in 10 mins. Returning home, even at mid-day or early afternoon, takes only 15-20. So it's really not that bad.
How far past the Darkside is the Farside?
What method of transport enables you to get to Villa in ten minutes from the farside of the darkside?
Can it be that The Space-Time Continuum of the Special Theory of Relativity doesn't apply in the Farside?
Ten minutes? Ten minutes? The force must be with you.
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Are you a reseller "Beginner" ? I do think so.// good interesting views down Pattaya Beach Road from South Side of building night and day //Great sea views and breezes....use of air con optional. Fresh clean air free.
With such big windows facing south and west, these apartments must be like an oven all the afternoon and evening. I really doubt that you can get fresh air by only openining windows...
Moreover, plans of these apartments are really "tortuous" : Too many walls and corner for so smalls apartments.
And I do not speak about price : more than 100 kBaht/sqm is ridiculous (to me) for such a condo.
Pattaya46
I am not a seller or a reseller. I am just trying to assist the OP.
You are rather cycnical Pattaya 46. I am surprised that you haven't accused the OP of being a realtor trawling for listing material.
The price of 100kbaht/sqm may be ridiculous to you but the condo market is very diverse and many other people think that it is a bargain price to live in that particular buillding in that specific location. Some of the North Shore 250 sqm tower units have been sold for considerably more than 100k/sqm as have other front units. If the buyers stick to Thailand rule number one of only buying something that they can afford to walk away from, then no harm is done.
The unit designs are not perfect but show me some that are. There is very little choice on Pattaya Beach Road and VT6 is aimed at another cheaper market altogether.
No doubt the OP will look around for something that suits his particular needs and priorities and that is why others have helpfully suggested condos in Jomtien and Naklua.
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I am moving to Pattaya. can anyone recommend a nice sea view condo in or around Jomtiem / Pattaya up to 7m baht.
You can just about buy something in North Shore with that budget.
Absolute beachfront, good interesting views down Pattaya Beach Road from South Side of building night and day.
Instant transport outside on Baht Bus main route. Active and able management committee.
Great sea views and breezes....use of air con optional. Fresh clean air free.
Noise..well its Pattaya. Not a quiet place.
People have moved out of Jomtien Grand Condotel because of noise from VT5 fitting out. Noise and Thailand go together like peaches and cream.
For peace and quiet, head up to Naklua as suggested above. The Sanctuary looks good but not finished yet.
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But do go back to your books and note that the library was a munificent edifice dedicated to the public good, not private greed. What private greed was doing, all over industrial England, was putting up dark, satanic mills.
Speaking of cliché's, your tower is an enormous one. It hasn't exactly been designed by Eero Saaranin or William Van Allen, but rather, by some third rate architect whose idea of modernism comes from a game of Sim City. Not only is it huge, it is ugly, really ugly – completely out of scale with its environment, clogged into a sliver of a plot with no surrounding landscaping to set it off, topped off with a crown lifted from some glitzy hotel in Dubai.
This cliche thing is infectious.
Dark Satanic Mills! Just look at Salts Mill in Bradford. What a beautiful, stately, noble building. In its time it had the largest room in Europe. http://www.saltsmill.org.uk/index.php?setPano=mainfloorIts still loved today and attracts visitors from all over the world to enjoy the Hockney Galleries and the structure itself.
Many mills have been retained and adapted to serve as Arts Centres, museums, heritage centres or even shopping malls. Some are still magnificent today and reflect the spirit and optimism of the developers.
Ocean 1 is best judged by its local setting and purpose. Q1 is probably its nearest equivilent.
Jomtien is a holiday resort and not an ancient spacious city with tree lined boulevards and open spaces. Q1 in Surfers Paradise is also squeezed into a skyline of high rise condos and short roads feeding onto the beach road. see http://www.q1.com.au/home.html
Eventually if visitors continue to be attracted the skyline in Jomtien will be very similar.
By then the low rent, low quality structures around it will have been redeveloped to the financial benefit of all involved. The structure will be completely in scale with the neighbourhood that its construction will help create.
Whether it is ugly or not is a matter of taste but Sim City is a wildly popular game with the younger generation.
When the much loved and now protected Georgian Terraces were built in Bath there were similar protests. It was claimed the buildings were monstrous, out of scale and reflected the developers greed not public need. Some things never change.
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you neglected to deal with the meat of my argument, which is that this is not a good time for shaky developers to hire bankrupt contractors to build gargantuan projects. Prospero, Shakespeare's prototypical real-estate tycoon, hung up his cloak when he sensed the market was turning bad .
I agree with you one hundred percent.
Can there ever be a good time for shaky developers to hire bankrupt contractors? But very few gargantuan projects are completed without political or technical problems and delays on the way. If you have no problems then you are not in business.
This project is so exciting with such a potential for creating 'face' and fame for the Jomtien area that many people are enthusiastic for its completion without any corrupt or direct financial interest.
In the current tempestuous financial climate it may be that there will be delays. Problem solving in business is what separates the winners from the rest. "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men Gang aft agley, An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain, " What's new? The dream lives on.
Back in 1882 Mrs E A Rylands and her architect Basil Champneys faced all kinds of problems but persevered for eight long years and Manchester has enjoyed the magnificent result since 1890. The John Rylands Library design, like Ocean 1 also included state of the art features and was one of the first public buildings in Manchester to be lit by electricity. Similarly it also used top quality materials such as Penrith stone and incorporated the best most aesthetically pleasing design features not merely the cheapest. It is one of the architectural jewels of England and has given pleasure to millions.
Ocean 1 will also has the potential to uplift the spirits of those who see it. It might, I concede, need a little Prosperian sorcery and luck to go to completion as currently planned. Good things are worth waiting for. (I like my cliches).
One day I hope to be able to have a drink with you in the rooftop restaurant where we will admire the stunning views of the latest Jomtien developments and remember the 'good' old days when all you could see were old fashioned cheap and nasty cereal box buildings plus scruffy fields and even scruffier shophouses and low rise condos.
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Pattaya will be hit especially hard because the untrammelled greed of the past couple of years has led to folly after folly. Ocean 1 is the biggest symbol of the excess, but there are many others. Clowns like "beginner" will continue to cling to dreams of eventual triumph, but the facts are that, while "Rome wasn't built in a day", it did decline and fall.
Hello Prospero.
I have had a variety of careers, many occupations and jobs but have never been a clown.
As you concede, Rome wasn't built in a day, several centuries in fact. The coliseum took over twelve years to get all that concrete in the right place.
Regarding Rome's decline, well that is more problematic. Some argue that despite Gibbon's Book Title, it did not decline and fall. Many scholars maintain that rather than a "fall", the changes can more accurately be described as a complex transformation. Over time many theories have been proposed on why the Empire fell, or whether indeed it fell at all.
Despite you ad hominen attack I will leave you with the words of Prospero.
Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
And what strength I have's mine own,
Which is most faint: now, 'tis true,
I look forward to the day I can wave at you from the top of Ocean 1.
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The future of Ocean 1 is GREAT.
Business is about risk and problem solving. Its not easy; if it was easy all the armchair developers and bar room businessmen would actually be out there creating things. Its a lot easier to carp and criticise and see problems where none exist.
So there is a little local difficulty. Rome wasn't built in a day.
The kind of people who have the vision and determination to put together a project like Ocean 1 will triumph eventually.
It will be a worldwide talking point when completed and help bring even more wealth and prosperity to Pattaya.
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Hi all,
I have moved the discussion regarding Thailand being dangerous for Brits to travel to into the general section.
Let's show some thought for any family members that may be reading this and keep the discussion on topic and respectful.
Thanks
Totster
THANKYOU. ITS VERY CONSIDERATE OF YOU.
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Seems very quiet on this topic.
A pattern of silence seems to be developing regarding murders of foreigners in Thailand. The authorities do not make any details public. The local (English language) press don't report anything. After a week or two, something emerges in the Teesside Chronicle or the Reno Reporter back home.
//
RSS News for you | What's this?
<h3 class="list-head-colour"> HomeNewsLocal News</h3>
Thai murder squad probe East Cleveland man’s death
Mar 11 2008 by Marie Levy, Evening Gazette
MURDER squad detectives in Thailand have launched an investigation into the death of a man from East Cleveland.Ivor Chandler, of Skelton, was found dead in the Phetchabun region of Thailand on Thursday.
Mr Chandler, who was in his mid-fifties, had been in the country visiting his girlfriend.
The retired ICI worker had been flying out to Thailand on a regular basis for more than four years and last went out there in January.
Today his shocked cousin from Middlesbrough, who is also called Ivor Chandler, told the Gazette he found out about his cousin’s death only on Sunday when Mr Chandler’s sister called to say she was flying out there to find out what had happened.
He said: “He was always flitting off to Thailand. I know he had been going out there a good few years. Then all of a sudden this happened.”
He said his cousin had lived alone for years but often visited him in between his trips to Thailand.
“We became closer when his mum died a few years ago. He’s a quiet sort of person who retired due to ill health.
“He always seemed quiet enough and was not the type to go out looking for trouble.”
He said his cousin had always loved travelling and had got to know a woman out in Thailand.
“He was always going to see his uncle in America and going to Thailand. He used to take all his favourite little nibbles and things with him. He used to take enough back to last him.
“He used to upgrade to business class because he travelled so much.”
He said Thailand police are questioning a man in connection with the death.
“That’s all I know,” he said. “We don’t even know what the motive was.”
A Foreign Office spokesman said today: “We are aware of the death of a British national in Phetchabun. We are providing consular support to the family and the Thai police are investigating the death. We have no more details surrounding the death at the moment.”
Mr Chandler lived on his own in a semi-detached bungalow in a quiet street close to Skelton town centre.
Neighbours were shocked today when told of his death.
They described him as a quiet but friendly man who had lived there for ten to 15 years and kept himself to himself.
One neighbour, who asked not to be named, said: “If he’s been murdered, that’s very shocking indeed. I’m stunned. The whole street will be very shocked and upset about this.”
Another added: “If it’s the guy I’m thinking of, he’s lived here for several years and kept himself to himself. It would shock me if he’s been murdered. He was always mild mannered, even tempered and polite.”
Another said: “He has always been a good neighbour. This is very shocking for everyone.”
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Tom Scott, "I Made Up The Title, You Make Up The Song" ...
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Thai police probe UK man's death
PHETCHABUN: -- Police in Thailand are investigating the death of a Teesside man, the Foreign Office has confirmed.
<deleted> me, is this violence getting too close to home! This is downright scary! I'm going to have to make some inquiries and see if there is any village scuttlebutt on this unfortunate event.
Are there any other details about what area of northern Phetch this unfortunate event took place in. It is a big province and there are lots of towns and villages. Lom Sak and Lom Kao are the only sizeable towns to the north of Phetch city.
RIP and condolences to the family.
I have posted more details under Thai News Clippings.
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I do not want to be in Thailand at Songran. I was thinking about going back to the UK but the cheapest fare I can find is 37,550 baht (28,765 plus taxes) on Qatar. Does anyone know of anything cheaper
Try www.kayak.com
Just put in BKK to LHR or MAN or wherever and the dates.
They list most options and show prices in $US including all taxes.
The price you have may be because of the exact dates you asked for. Try leave earlier back later etc.
Etihad and Qatar usually cheap.
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- The location is right (1350 [not 700m sorry] m by road away from the beach not 700m - Soi 6 and 900 m from road 2 where construction has now started)!
- Peter
Peter, your units appear to be in Jomtien not Pattaya.
Your title is a little misleading.
- The location is right (1350 [not 700m sorry] m by road away from the beach not 700m - Soi 6 and 900 m from road 2 where construction has now started)!
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Some people might consider it empty headed arbitrary. I'm sure you did "due diligence" just like the owners of Jomtien Complex who were told, I'm sure, that there is NO RISK WHATSOEVER in having their sea view blocked,
/quote]
Why would any reasonably intelligent person look at a high rise building in a highly attractive position some 200 metres from the beach and believe anyone who said that the space in between would not eventually be developed? In a money driven economy like this...any green space is a future building site.
Even if they wanted it to be true, a cursory look around the area would have revealed many many hi-rise buildings located much closer to the beach.
The world does not stop when someone buys a condo.
If the present prosperity continues in the various faranglands that feed Jomtien and Pattaya, they will continue to develop empty land until all the prime sites are filled and then the older buildings will be removed and re-developed. It goes on all the time. Here today, gone tomorrow.
Recently refurbished bars on Second Road are today being demolished for something more profitable.
The new builds tend to be much better designs which take into account environmentally sound practices such as water re-cycling, solar power, energy efficiency, better insulation and often better aesthetics (an area of personal preference and value judgments). VT7 for example is viewed by many as a very attractive addition to the beachfront skyline.
The general rise in prosperity also allows higher prices and better all round quality within the building. The days of ultra low cost building solutions such as.............you name them....is coming to an end. Quality will be king in the prime locations.
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I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional (hey pervs, that's used in the career sense not the Pattaya sense), who went to University in Bangkok and who abhors Pattaya and its nightlife and who hates living here partly because of the the vile foreign dregs she sees on the streets, and for the shame it brings on Thailand when we are abroad.
That's why it must change.
APMann, you can not be serious.
Are you saying that despite having a wife who abhors Pattaya and hates living here, you nevertheless continue to live here and subject her to Jomtien and Pattaya in all its glory.
Why doesn't your respect and love for your wife make you move to somewhere more suitable? Just about anywhere but here.
Something doesn't add up. What is it that really makes you live here?
On the general issue and not your own particular circumstances of which I know nothing. Some people claim that cheap housing is the reason. Where is that cheap housing? Houses on the dark side that are very nearly unsaleable on the second hand market are hardly cheap. Cheap to buy maybe but total ownership costs may turn out to anything but cheap! They will be cheap to the Thais who eventually gain them for a half or less of what the farang owners originally paid and especially cheap to the bgs (my girl is different she went to Uni etc) who will get and have already got many of them completely free.
As has been noted above, the dark side now has enough residents to support its own red light area which is expanding fast.
Will Pattaya change in the way you want? Nothing is permanent. Will it change soon....?
MURDER squad detectives in Thailand have launched an investigation into the death of a man from East Cleveland.
No Sails
in Pattaya
Posted · Edited by beginner
Sorry but Miami Beach is not for me. Not relaxed enough. If I wanted Art Deco I would go to Mumbai or Napier New Zealand.
Two better words. Surfers Paradise.
Bonne chance monsieur.