thaibeachlovers

These are troubling times for Europe. The EU has suffered (and is still suffering) from the Global economic crisis, many people simply do not have the financial stability they once had and that makes people worry about their future, their jobs, keeping their homes, their children's education etc, etc.

During these times there are always far right wing politicians and people who come out of the woodwork and start trying to bury seeds of hate towards other nations. It starts by making populist statements like "we have to get the immigration crisis under control" and eventually turns into "they immigrants want to take over and they are coming in their millions".

Insecure people who would normally ignore such obvious hate mongering start to think that maybe they are right and before we know it all hell breaks lose. This is pretty much what Hitler did among others.

So, does immigration need sorting out, yes of course it does. The Western countries are being abused and the Governments are not doing enough to control it, that is for sure. This is putting huge pressure on welfare states and creating a feeling of "we can't afford to house these people right now". Make no mistake its going to get very volatile soon but I hope people will see sense and just calm down so solid, firm and effective measures can be put in place to keep people happy,, I think that is all it needs, the governments to show a firm hand and shut the door on all but the very desperate immigrants.

In addition to each country internally arguing about immigration we now have the Islamist views that Sharia Law should be obeyed in Western countries. I cannot think of anything more likely to light the powder keg then these few muslims who are walking the streets and attacking native locals about wearing a miniskirt or drinking a can of beer in the park (a video posted on here showed exactly that in London, a Muslim "patrol" walking the streets and hassling people for no reason).

I would like to believe that these people are the absolute minority and that most Muslims do not feel this way and just want to live in peace. So, I think it is time the muslim community dealt with their own problem before these minorities create a feeling if total hatred towards all Muslims and the Far Right start screamig for the removal of non European Muslims out of their country.. Some would argue the hate is already there and its just a matter of time.

So, these are very volatile times, unless the governments across Europe start to work together, close the boarders, put new measures in place, control the muslims extremists from openly attacking the Western Way of life in their own Western countries (after all it is illegal in Saudi Arabia to practice other religions) then i fear extreme measures will ensue.

Lets all hope that it does go that way..

I just watched the VDO about the Muslim patrol, and I bet the elders in the mosque are sh***** themselves as to how to deal with that situation, as if they don't the National Front guys will soon be there to sort it.

Few realize this backlash is from a small group of US servicemen who raped Japanese girls in Okinawa awhile back.

Unlike Americans, whose news memories seem almost to be a case of two weeks and then amnesia, most cultures do not forget such things. Do Americans really think that just because the US media stopped talking about it, that the Iraq slaughter is forgotten? Or the Shah of Iran? Or the 1969 bombing of the Plain of Jars in Laos and Cambodia? Or.... The list would take up more pages than a Steven King novel.

Foreign policy has been a dismal failure altogether, even with our allies. Japan is just one case in point. Dragging Britain into Iraq is another. There are dozens more of these failures on record.

How is anyone supposed to feel about their government when their government does such things? Most people in America are nice, decent people, but none of them ever get elected.

Patriotism is good. Nationalism is mindless mobs following leaders who let them down on a daily basis. The first is healthy. The second is brain death.

Yes, well, the Japanese people (who are some of the most racist people in the world even today) kind of got what they deserved after the war. need I remind YOU, with your own short memory, of the Bataan Death March, the genocide/rape of Nanjing, Nazi-style medical experiments, and much more? Now they get to relax under the umbrella of US security.

Oh, OK so because of the crimes of their forefathers it's ok then is it to go and rape Japanese school girls? They have got what they deserve have they? How long must we persecute grand children and great grand children who were never even there because of war crimes committed 75 years ago. Perhaps the USA's and UK citizens should all be persecuted and raped because of the crimes of their forefathers with Indigenous populations in North America, Australia and Canada etc etc, just how far back qualifies to be fair game for retribution for you?

May I also remind you that the Nazi and Japanese 'Doctors' who tortured , maimed and experimented on thousands of wretched souls were all given amnesty by the US in return for all their research. Many went on to be 'employed' in the US and given new identities as a reward for their collaboration.

On a more practical note can you actually imagine how many dollars go into the local economy from 25 000 servicemen each month. If the USA pulled out of the Island the local economy would plummet along with all associated Jobs and businesses.

Rape wasn't legal in the US military during the war, and it still isn't. Ergo, it's NOT OK.

Truly doubt that their economy will crumble, they are Japanese they will make out just fine. I always wondered why the Japanese put up with this base for so long. They don't need it and don't want and it is their country. They can get along without the US nonsense there just fine. I wish them God speed on moving the base out. Now if we can just work on removing the other 999 US bases worldwide that would be great. The poor US taxpayer needs a break and could use the money on a lot more really useful stuff.

The Japs LOST the war and surrendered UNCONDITIONALLY to the allies. They had no right to anything the Americans didn't want to give them. If the Americans wanted the whole of Okinawa, they could have had it.

Having said that, it is probably time the US stopped being the world's policeman and went home, leaving sovereign countries to do their own military protection. Too many countries rely on the American taxpayer to protect them. That many would be soon conquered by a certain country is no reason to force the American citizen to pay taxes to protect them.

Some extra background to my case:

the Judgement also said that we should be charged for illegally trying to get around the restrictions on foreigners owning land.

The logic of this last point was due to us subscribing collectively for 49% of the company shares. These shares were be held for the duration of the lease ( and any extension), and to be returned once the lease expired. The lease structure was prepared by a Thai law firm, which is on the list of lawyers recommended by a number of Embassies, today. It was approved by each investor's personal law firm, in 2004. It has been used by 100's if not 1000's of apartment units sold, on Phuket alone. At Appeal, the Thai business man added an extra charge, that we had tried to defraud him. The irony of this part is he is a very successful business man, selling product to major non- Thai developers on Phuket. At the time of writing, there are apartments listed for resale, with similar lease paperwork registered in place. I have asked several developers and Property agencies if, what they are selling is legal . The answer is 'no problem'.

Now that our Judgement has been public, since early 2014, a number of law firms are reversing their long- standing advice. STILL, a number of law firms continue to say that there is nothing wrong our paperwork, except "maybe you should use a different set up for protecting your lease renewal option". so, legal advice in some cases is good for today - but you had better not go to court and have it reviewed by a Judge, as he may rule that you have nothing.

I think that the lesson learned is, no matter how careful you are with investing your money, in property, here in Thailland, no matter how good the advice you obtain from a law firm and a property agency, the advice may be useless, in hindsight. Because the system of regulations are not reliable. As Bill Barnett described it, you are safe if you buy from a major developer. The problem, is that, on Phuket, the major developers account for at most, 25% of the units sold. The 75% are subject to the laws of the jungle. And, although I love the country and would never leave, I and you are second class citizens. Excuse the length of these 2 posts. I hope there is some guidance i

maybe you should use a different set up for protecting your lease renewal option

In other words, you should use a different device for circumventing Thai law.

no matter how careful you are with investing your money, in property, here in Thailland

Had you invested in your own country and use the proceedings to live in LOS, you'd be sitting pretty now.

no matter how good the advice you obtain from a law firm and a property agency, the advice may be useless, in hindsight.

Of course it is.

The 75% are subject to the laws of the jungle.

"Due diligence" would have told you that.

I and you are second class citizens

Unless you have qualified for a Thai passport you are NOT a Thai citizen, and yes, all farangs are "second class" in LOS. How many zillions of times has it been said on these pages that our money is welcome in LOS, but us less so?

The lesson I learned in LOS over many, many years is never, never, never "invest" any money in LOS that I can't afford to lose.

It is heartening to know there are people like you who are so clued up on the Thai system. Somewhat less enthralling is the contempt in which you hold those who do not have your knowledge on the subject matter. Many people are coming to Thailand believing at least some of the hype and believing they can invest their money and that a system of justice exists that will not support scammers, thieves and cheats. Unfortunately the Thai system of justice, bent, corrupt gangs of lawyers who persecute foreigners and any lawyer who dares represent them, and judges who do not even try to apply the law in favour of a foreigner almost as if it is a loss of face on the whole country that a Thai could be a cheat, corrupt or otherwise scamming foreigners. The abject racism and scale of the problem is very much not know by all and sundry though I accept if you now know how to search and pick the right keywords you will no doubt find the horror stories.

The fact is most buyers are absolutely not aware of the facts as you know them or as I know them now. They are lied to by the TAT, lied to by the property industry, lied to by propaganda encouraging them to invest in the property industry, invest in Thailand, invest, invest, invest. One might be led to believe that with all the effort put into advertising Thailand as being a wonderful place to invest that there might actually be some laws that go to protect those who benefit the country by investing.

The reality is that you are on a hiding to a racist nothing here. Do not invest is right. Do not invest and do not believe a soul here because the lies are so plentiful it is impossible to find the truth that might lie somewhere. It certainly does not lie in the justice system that deserves to lead the Phuket property market into the annihilation because as a foreigner you will be targeted, scammed, lied to and led up the garden path by lawyers who have no morals and even less ethics.

However that is the story that needs to get out and your condescending tone to a retired couple is really unnecessary and in poor taste.

Sorry to be condescending, but the point of my post is to warn other persons coming to Thailand that all is not rosy in LOS.

Frankly though, I wonder at anyone that apparently invests significant amounts of money in a foreign country without doing significant research first. Would anyone that has been caught in a Thai scam have been so willing to give away their money in Nigeria or Sudan, for instance?

If I use an agent, do they require a yellow book, bankbook update within the hour, etc etc, or is it just the form, the passport, bank letter and bank book photocopy, photos, money?

I feel obliged to use the services of an agent - waiting for n hrs - no thank you.

This year CNX I/O seek a TM 28 or TM 30 or both.

I still fail to understand this aspect although I have had communication with an agent.

I own a condo in CNX - vacant - up for sale - have a yellow book.

In Fang, MIL owns the land & wife owns the house. Wife states that my name cannot appear on the house-book until the condo is sold - per Amphur Office advice.

I/O @ Fang has accepted the document supplied & now I do 90 day reports there.

Am I confused?

Every time I have applied for a retirement extension at C M I have been required to jump through new hoops, and none of the "new" requirements have been written in the information they themselves issue to clients. Seems to me that they just want to make it harder, for no real reason that I can understand, other than they don't want us to live in LOS.

Well.....even I, with zero experience in statesmanship, can tell you that the only way this ends will be when one of them goes.

And your suggestion is..................................

Personally, I would much much rather that Israeli politicians worked out this obvious endgame scenario for themselves and avoid all this unnecessary violence.

As one who is relatively more knowledgeable of the region than most, I am quite impressed if you have come up with an "obvious endgame scenario" to the situation. I wholeheartedly agree that the expansion of settlements into the occupied territories was a major blunder, a huge political miscalculation on the part of the Likud, and simply wrong. But there still exists a sizable element within the Arab world that has long had, and still maintains but a single goal, and that is the destruction of the State of Israel. At some level, the expansion into the territories, the building of the wall of failure, the overreactions of force by the Israeli polity are all, to some degree, are but responses to the continuous existential threat that will not disappear if the Israelis withdraw to the 1967 borders. And thus, unless there is a substantial change in the Ummah of the Arab world, we would, given a withdrawal to earlier borders, to paraphrase of all people Hillary Clinton, be back here in 10 years having this same conversation. Given the miscalculations by the Israelis, given the miscalculations of the western powers throughout the region over the past century, I don't see the Arab Ummah moving towards any significant change of heart. I see no obvious endgame here. Sorry.

I agree that the Arabs are unlikely to have a change of heart, especially as they see Israel continue to steal their land ( would you accept that? ).

So, unless Israel makes a unilateral change, we will be having the same conversation in 10, 20, 30 years time.

Israel keeps doing the same thing expecting a different outcome. They never learn, its never their fault. Unable to look in the house of mirrors.

Just keep expanding settlements, need land for the chosen people. No one else matters.

What expansions of settlements is referred to in connection with the OP?

Netanyahu: Now is the time for unity government, not announcements of building in settlements

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-The-Islamist-extremism-plaguing-the-Middle-East-has-arrived-at-Israels-doorstep-421367

Not mentioned in the linked article but appearing elsewhere, a ministerial committee meeting regarding legislation of further Palestinian land appropriation was cancelled, as timing seemed extra-inflammatory.

Speaking of doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results - how is the current Palestinian violence promoting their national aspirations?

Not mentioned in the linked article but appearing elsewhere, a ministerial committee meeting regarding legislation of further Palestinian land appropriation was cancelled, as timing seemed extra-inflammatory.

You write that as if it were a good thing.

In fact it shows the Israeli government to be a bunch of crooks for even considering legislation to steal Palestinian land as though they have some right to it.

That's a very interesting question.

Israelis at the moment are worried Can we ever live with these people who want to kill us when we visit a shopping center in the Occupied Territories?.So what can they do about this?

1. Do as Netanyahu is doing..manage the status quo conflict, impose curfews and other draconian laws, but that's not a permanent solution.

2. Remove the problem. Remove 4.5 million resident Palestinians and make them other countries' problem, probably Europe's with another refugee influx crisis.That will not work either ...the world and the EU would not tolerate a 3rd round of Palestinian ethnic cleansing. besides it would not bring Israel permanent peace. the problem for Israeli security could always escalate into a world wide phenomenon.

3. Get out of the Occupied Territories to the safety of pre 67 borders. Yes I know some of the attacks have taken place there too, but with a recognized permanent peace agreement there would be no need for any attacks at all. notwithstanding there will always be disgruntled nutjobs on both sides.

Despite all the grief and tragedy on both sides, maybe the current round of violence is actuallly making something happen i.e. making Israelis realize there is no future for them in perpetuating the status quo. It has pushed forward their lackadaisical 48 year old agenda that they need to find a permanent solution.

Personally, I would much much rather that Israeli politicians worked out this obvious endgame scenario for themselves and avoid all this unnecessary violence.

Again with the same talking points?

There is no one in a position of power in Israel calling for mass deportation of Palestinians, there is no general public support for that sort of thing as well. On top, Israel simply does not have the stomach to carry out something on that scale. Basically, it's just one of your standard propaganda red herring statements.

There is currently no one in a position of power on both sides that can deliver a peace deal, and there is even more acute shortage of leaders willing to make the effort. Saying Israel "got all the cards" and similar slogans, ignores the fact that there cannot be a viable peace without either popular support or a determined strong leadership on the Palestinian side, neither in evidence. Unilaterally withdrawing does not work out all that great.

The current violence is a drop in the ocean compared with previous instances (the Intifadas, rocket attacks). Their long term effects on Israeli public opinion was to harden positions and develop a sense of fatalism regarding these bouts of violence. What can be seen now is an initial public reaction, if things will continue, more than likely people will simply adjust. Very unlikely that it would have the effect you imagine.

This ongoing presentation of the Palestinians as playing a passive role in the conflict resolution and as unaccountable for anything, is not helpful nor very respectful of the Palestinians.

Their long term effects on Israeli public opinion was to harden positions and develop a sense of fatalism regarding these bouts of violence. What can be seen now is an initial public reaction, if things will continue, more than likely people will simply adjust. Very unlikely that it would have the effect you imagine.

You seem not to take into account international pressure. Given sufficient provocation, even the US will not be able to justify unconditional support for Israel. Remember how apartheid was destroyed by international pressure forcing the US to turn against the Sth Africa clique.

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I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

I enjoy a drink, but I don't need it. I've had plenty of fun at parties etc. when I've been the driver and so not drunk any alcohol.

If one needs alcohol, one has a problem!

So that's the problem with 75% of the world. At last, we have some clarity, on how to finally get humanity sober, for once. Apparently that's what all the current Islamic State insanity is all about? Anti-Alcoholism! Wow! Thanks for your insight

I don't get your post. If one NEEDS alcohol one is an alcoholic, ergo one has a problem.

(Nested quotes removed to comply with forum software)

I think he (transam)is saying that the Saudi's (who drink alcohol in other countries) are hypocrites which they are

Cannabis is illegal in the UK.

Many Brits travel to The Netherlands where they can legally partake of cannabis.

Are they, gandalf12, in your opinion, hypocrites as well?

Those Brits don't have a religion that they claim to live by that says it is a sin to use alcohol etc.

Good point.

I guess one of my Jewish friends who enjoys the occasional bacon sandwich must be a hypocrite, too!

Depends on whether he would enforce the edict on other people. If he doesn't personally think it's a sin, he wouldn't be a hypocrite.

I wouldn't trust a Saudi in SA to look the other way on alcohol, even if they get drunk on every occasion when out of the country, which is why most of us that have been there think they are hypocrites.

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

It is awash with the stuff. Easier to get a drink there than here. However most is homemade and quality varies.

I was there and I know that. Which is why I said "if one NEEDS alcohol"

Monckton is probably one of the most discredited Climate Deniers. If he told me it was raining I would go outside to check. He has been caught out so many times.

'Denier' ... zzzz .... 'Fossil fuels' ... zzzz .... 'Koch Brothers' ... zzzz .... Wot, no Fox News this time?

On and on with the broken record .........

Monckton did the UK a signal service by backing the campaign to have Al Gore's silly sci-fi movie An Inconvenient Truth criticised in the High Court and its subsequent dissemination to schools hedged with caveats.

I can readily see why the climate Alarmists hate Monckton. He is personable, amusing, erudite and connects with audiences in a way that no Alarmist, with their shrunken personalities, could hope to emulate. He gets the Alarmists so wound up they can hardly speak.

Here he is, in fine form:

Show me one peer reviewed scientific paper that supports Monckton's view on GW / CC it really doesn't exist. I don't think even Climate Deniers take him seriously anymore. People who accept the science on GW / CC don't hate Monckton they just know what he says is foolish.

Yes Willie Soon always denied he was paid by Exxon Mobil but he got caught out. Exxon Mobil will be like the tobacco companies I think down the track they will be fined billions for knowingly funding misinformation on GW / CC as the tobacco companies were fined billions for lilieing. He is funded by the Heartland Institute as well who also funded Creationism and attempted to promote second hand smoking didn't harm anyone. When you fund this type of misinformation don't expect people to continue trusting you.

Once again, it is IRRELEVANT whether or not GW is caused by mankind or not. GW is happening as anyone with eyes can see, and it will affect people around the world. That does not mean I believe that catastrophic weather events are a result of GW, as they have been happening as long as the planet has been in existence.

The only thing that counts is what people ( worldwide, not just in the west ) will do to eliminate pollution. So far, ZIP, NADA, ZERO. Building wind turbines and inventing new taxes has done nothing so far.

I hate it when people say 'You don't need alcohol to have fun.'

You don't need shoes to run, but it <deleted!> helps..............................................

If one needs alcohol, one shouldn't work in Saudi.

But their own go to farangland to do what they can't do in their own country...Even hi-so's..........

So what's your point (if any) Transam? They go outside to partake of things illegal in their own country but LEGAL in "farangland" as you call it. Unfortunately this man was doing something ILLEGAL...does that make it clear for you?

I think he is saying that the Saudi's are hypocrites which they are

Cannabis is illegal in the UK.

Many Brits travel to The Netherlands where they can legally partake of cannabis.

Are they, gandalf12, in your opinion, hypocrites as well?

Those Brits don't have a religion that they claim to live by that says it is a sin to use alcohol etc.

Why is this a 'victory for justice'?

He is avoiding an arrest warrant.

Does this mean that everyone in the world should just walk into any embassy and say 'keep me up in your Embassy (free hotel) because I do not want to fight this legal case in a court of law because I might get extradited to another country because I have broken their laws'.

No, he was wanted for questioning. He had already been questioned in Sweden. We all know this had nothing to do with the allegations and all about Wikileaks. He would have ended up

in the next cell to Chelsea Manning for 30 years.

NO. He was not just wanted for questioning. He had an arrest warrant and fully approved extradition against him. Please see the following timeline!

2010

14 August Assange invited to Stockholm to address seminar by the Social Democrats Brotherhood Movement, staying at apartment of Miss A. The two reportedly have sex that night.

17 August Assange reportedly has sex with Miss W, a woman he met at the seminar on August 14.

17-20 August Both women share concerns over their sexual encounters.

20 August The Swedish prosecutors office issues an arrest warrant for Assange, for two separate allegations of rape and molestation.

18 November Stockholm district court approves a request to detain the WikiLeaks founder for questioning, on suspicion of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion.

20 November An international arrest warrant for Assange is issued by Swedish police via Interpol.

30 November Interpol issues a red notice for Assange.

8 December Assange presents himself to London police. He is remanded in custody after an extradition hearing.

14 December Protesters demonstrate outside Londons City of Westminster magistrates court, where Assange is appearing on an extradition warrant. He is granted bail on security of £200,000 to court and guarantee of two sureties of £20,000. Two hours later, Swedish authorities challenge decision to grant bail. Assange is kept in custody.

16 December Granted bail after supporters pay £240,000 cash and sureties.

2011

7 February An extradition hearing begins at Belmarsh magistrates court. Later in the month the court rules for extradition to Sweden.

3 March Assanges lawyers say they have lodged papers at the high court for an appeal against the ruling.

12 July Assange launches his appeal. His QC, Ben Emmerson, argues the European arrest warrant that led to his clients arrest contained fundamental misstatements of what had occurred in Stockholm last August.

13 July Judges reserve judgment on the appeal.

2 November Assange loses his appeal. He says he will consider his next steps in the days ahead.

2012

30 May UK supreme court upholds the high court decision, rules that extradition is lawful and can go ahead.

14 June The supreme court rejects a move by Assange to reopen his appeal against his extradition, saying it was without merit. He has until 28 June to ask European judges in Strasbourg to postpone extradition on the basis he has not had a fair hearing from the UK courts.

19 June Assange enters the Ecuadorian embassy in London, requesting political asylum.

Do you believe that any old Joe Bloggs would have had the UK police wasting 11 million quid on waiting around uselessly outside the embassy for years?

The supposed crimes do not warrant such, therefore there is much more to the case that we have not been informed of.

Judging by the VDO he had 4 or 5 cops hanging around outside the embassy in case he was so stupid he might wander out. Obviously the UK police have nothing important to do if they can go along with that farce.

Way to go, guy! That's how I'd like to pass away, after a marathon shagathon. Better than free falling in Pattaya.

Can't stand the place, imagine living there all those years ??? definetly not for me..

i like my freedom too much, my life , my choices, in a country where i can do what i want (within reason of course).

Depends on the job. If doing a job involving little contact with locals I could have lived there for more than 4 years, but I had too much contact with locals so left.

As a few have mentioned, he knew the law and wilfully broke it so can't complain about the consequences.

you and your failing marriage had costed you years of saving that could have been instead invested for your early retirement.

it s like guys buying brand new cars instead of second hand car and were making fun of me. I saved hundred thousand of dollars by going cheap.

they got big houses at several thousand dollars , while I saved and kept my money invested, now it brings me more money every year passing . after a few years, i can now rent a house in Thailand while the guys in farangland are still paying tax on their property of 5 bedrooms house that are filled with junks. they could have save the money instead to buy junks and invest in stocks.

now I can enjoy a relaxed life in Thailand while guys in faranglands are still paying lawyers and their Betty the bitch for child support.

10 years only.... now my life is all vacation while guys in farangland are still waiting for 5 pm to leave their dumb office.

You can't retire on $100k-$250k without touching principal. The math does not add up.

So you were making $50-80k a year before taxes and saving half?

Something feels wrong with the math.

If its in real risky stocks that somehow return a little better, your going to be wiped out in the next market downturn.

I earned about 23,000 pounds in my last year, before that a lot less, then UK tax took a large chunk, rent a large chunk, food etc the usual amount. So where does the "average" worker get 100,000 plus $ to retire on? I could have saved 50,000 quid over 10 years had I not contributed to super, the returns of which are very small.

Rick I think your personal attacks on John Cook says more about you than him.

The 'Toon of the Week' are always a bit of a laugh.

Toon.jpg

The 'Quote of the Week' goes to:

Bill Patzert, climatologist for NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in La Cañada Flintridge

“There’s no longer a possibility that El Niño wimps out at this point. It’s too big to fail,”

I suppose Climate Scientists really need a sense of humour to deal with the unwarranted personal attacks they receive from Climate Deniers.

The EXCELLENT!!! Michael Mann video 'notmyself' posted above, John Cook was the actual interviewer. So he is held in VERY high regard within the scientific community.

You and the cartoonist have no evidence that the "flood" was man made. Floods have been happening for millions of years, and most of the time without any input from mankind. More likely because of overpopulation causing people to build on a flood plain.

You can say that extreme weather is caused by man's input till you are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it true.

tbl it's a cartoon lol

I know that but it is using a false premise ie that the flood was caused by mankind. There is no evidence to prove that any extreme weather event is man made.

Of course there is a road to peace. It is the two state solution and an end to occupation.

Interesting.

So how does that work now that the terrorist organization Hamas not only controls Gaza but is massively more popular than the "moderate" faction led by Abbas in Judea/Samaria?

In case you forgot Hamas is openly against ever accepting any state of Israel with any borders and is openly genocidal towards Jewish people in general.

Dawa-Hamas.jpg

It would not be necessary to include Gaza in the two state solution. Israel leaves the occupied territories to be led by Abbas's faction. If they attack Israel, they would be punished. You obviously know that Gaza is not currently occupied.

The problem is that Israel does not want to give back enough land to allow a viable west bank state to succeed. Probably why they are not serious about that path to peace.

The Palestinian position is to reject such a differentiation between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. The usual formulation is that anything but an all inclusive agreement is a no go. There is also no popular support among Palestinians for such a notion.

Why it is assumed that following an Israeli withdrawal the West Bank will be led by "Abbas's faction"? Abbas, and the Fatah, are hugely unpopular due to many reasons, not all to do with Israel. Given a shot at free elections, more than likely Hamas will emerge victorious (again), and that the aftermath will contribute to the rise of hardliner leaders within the Fatah. Regardless, considering Abbas's age, any strategy relying on him as a linchpin is a doubtful proposition. As an aside, it is not quite clear what "Abbas's faction" was supposed to denote - the Fatah as a whole? Abbas loyalists within the Fatah?

As for "If they attack Israel, they would be punished" - doesn't work all that well with the Gaza Strip. Israeli attacks are deemed unacceptable regardless of events, and they do not actually manage to bring about even a sustainable ceasefire.

There are obstacles for peaceful resolutions from both sides, focusing exclusively on those raised by Israel paints half a picture.

So because of "MIGHT" Israel will do nothing? That is only going to continue the same failed situation. How long can Israel continue to occupy and oppress before events will overwhelm Israel- nothing lasts forever?

I think the delusion is in not realising that Israel can not continue to occupy a people, a people who, whatsmore, are recognised as a state by 70% of the world.

I think the delusion is not realising that soon the world will take a stand and slap the spoiled brat and teach it some manners and some rules.

70 years ago, the world, via the UN, gave the Zionists a state for the Jewish refugees of Europe. It was a needed step, and it was done, despite displacing the indigenous people. Since then, the Zionists have acted like a spoiled brat, taking more "because we want it", thumbing it's nose to the world, the UN, that created it, and the world has stood by, indulging the brat, afraid of it's tantrums and manipulations.

As with any spoiled brat, the screams, the tantrums, and the selfishness become too much for even the most indulgent parent. A smack, and sent to sit in the corner will be forthcoming.

There is also a certain evident delusion in not realizing that no viable solution could be reached without Israel's assent.and cooperation, international pressure notwithstanding. Attempts to force a not agreed upon resolution might end up with an agreement of sorts, but are not likely to be conductive for it holding up to reality.

As usual, there is no mention of Israel neighbors and the Palestinians rejecting that very same UN resolution. No mention of actions taken by Arab countries and the Palestinians to undo the UN resolution. No mention of two Arab countries taking over them future Palestinian territories (Egypt and Jordan).

Not that I go much for simplified analogies, but seems the spoiled brat one above could be applied for the Palestinians with ease: throwing a fit not wanting to share, then whining when reality bites.

You must be joking! You suggest that Palestinians upset at their homes being bulldozed are analogous to a spoiled brat not wanting to share?

Not at all.

That bit was referring to the partition plan and the relevant UN resolution.

Like I said, silly analogies are not a very good tool when trying to better understand complex situations.

How can you accuse the Palestinians of not wanting to share when their land OUTSIDE Israel is being stolen slowly, piece by piece? It is the Israelis that want it all, and don't want to share. Facts on the ground.

The only thing they are fighting for is the end of Israel, they could have had self determination over 60 years ago

Nailed it in 1 sentence, cause their surely not fighting for the temple when they pray with ass facing the temple

Hundreds-Muslims-Praying-At-Al-Aqsa-Mosque-Jerusalem.jpg

That's a really ignorant statement. They pray facing Mecca, regardless of where the MOSQUE is. Try learning the truth before posting garbage.