jcsmith

This is not surprising. Nor is it surprising that Trump once again has refused to condemn Putin. Not when it came out Russia was offering bounties on U.S. troops. Not two months ago when his own DHS suppressed a warning that Russia was targeting Biden. That memo was inexplicably withheld while Trump amplified the same exact message. No condemnation for interfering in our election again. Trump won't stand up to Putin. Not now, not ever. The reason for that is obvious.

29 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

And how did you protect yourself?  Did you seek safety in numbers with other whites?  how were you treated by blacks?  or south Americans?  were these gangs drawn up mainly on racial lines? did they allow you to be one of them?

As a kid half of my friends were black. Gangs were a mix. Crips and bloods (which there are many variations of) were mostly black but there were white and mexican crips and bloods as well. Mexicans mostly had their own gangs. There were really no white gangs but there were white guys in gangs. Every hood had allies and enemies. When you'd run into people on the street they'd ask you where you were from, and the answer you gave would determine how it was going to go. As a white guy in those neighborhoods I was mostly accepted. Though people did often assume that white guys were soft since they were often goth or stoners. You just toughen up. So often when we did get hit up people would go after me first. 

What I think people don't get about gangs is that it isn't a conscious decision really. How it happens is that you grow up and the older kids, like your uncles, or cousins, or friends brothers or relatives, you look up to them. They have your back, and you don't even realize as a kid that many of them are in gangs. You don't understand the whole concept. But then when you get into your teens your friends start dying or taking bad beatings. Going to jail. As that happens you just develop a hatred for other people. You blame them and nobody talks to the cops. Any justice is street justice but that is normalized. You also realize that if people ask you where your from and you dodge that question that is a sign of weakness. People wind up in gangs without ever getting jumped in a lot of times. You are there, you are guilty by association automatically, and you just become that. And for young boys you are trying to show that you are a man. But the decisions you make at those ages can ruin your life. Not to mention decisions that you don't make just because of where you live.

I'll share a story from when I was 17. This is actually what caused me to join the Navy. I wanted to join already but my mom wouldn't sign the papers and I was still a minor. One night I'm drinking with two friends on the steps in our neighborhood, near a bridge over the riverbed. We're just sitting there not bothering anyone, and a pizza delivery guy comes to the apartments there. Goes in, comes out still with his pizza. Which seemed odd. Then he goes into his car, hops out the other side of the door with a gun and cop cars swoop from all sides. We're on the steps and now we're arrested with like 4 cop cars around us, all the neighbors looking at us with what looks like some type of a sting operation. Apparently they were trying to catch some people who had jacked the pizza man there a few times. But whoever planned on doing it didn't do it probably because they saw us there. The police had this operation set up and the suspects of the previous incidents were two black males around the right age as my two friends. They threw us in jail and tried to pin 4 cases of armed robbery on us. Each of those has a mandatory 10 years. They said we were armed with 40 ounces. The cop said that as he was leaving the house that we circled him and one of us raised the 40 to hit him and he couldn't wait any longer and pulled his gun. And they were trying to pin the previous incidents on us as well. Thankfully the charges got dropped because the cop lied and said we were circling and coming after him but stumbled in his lies and admitted that we froze and nobody tried to escape. But we were arrested on the steps, about 20 yard from his car so that couldn't have been the case. But if that hadn't come out, I probably would have spent a large part of my adult like in prison for no reason other than drinking a beer with two friends a block from our homes. 

After that my mom signed my papers and I went into the navy which changed my life. The crazy thing is  that was all I really knew. I thought it was like that everyplace. Then I spent the next few years undoing the tendencies I had built up. To want to fight any time challenged. To judge people by perceived weakness. 

Now certainly I don't disagree with DBath that people can get out of those situations. But it's an uphill climb. You have to get out of the area and that is hard for a lot of people because everyone they know is there. It's not surprising that there are more crimes in these neighborhoods. Those crimes shouldn't just be given a pass. But people also need to understand the context. There are a lot of decent people who just get caught up for whatever reason. But the worst your circumstances the harder it is to find your way out of them.

Now I do realize my personal life is inconsequential here. But I did want to share my perspective. I wish there were easy solutions for these problems but they are complex issues and all you can really ask for is a progression where things are improving a little bit over a long time.

1 minute ago, DBath said:

Hey stupid, news flash: I did grow up in one of those neighborhoods and I had my share of run-ins with law enforcement. People like to make excuses. 

Yes, they do. Like making excuses for choking an unarmed person to death. Or justifying shooting unarmed people...

1 hour ago, DBath said:

Attached are latest FBI statistics by race. I’m not gonna do the analysis for you, so knock yourself out. I will point out that the data shows blacks commit 20% greater number of murders and more robberies than whites (including armed robbery). In many cases blacks commit more than half the number if crimes, yet they don’t nearly represent half the total population. How do you explain that?

table-43a.xls 40 kB · 0 downloads

What does that have to do with shooting unarmed people? As for how to explain it, densely population housing developments where gangs are rampant and violence is glorified. That is no excuse for police to kill unarmed people. 

I'm a white guy, but I grew up in poor neighborhoods with plenty of gangs in L.A.. The police treat people as the enemy. As a kid growing up the police are constantly stopping you for no reason. Searching you. Trying to pin crimes on you. That causes people in the neighborhoods to have a strong distrust for police. Growing up in those neighborhoods crime is a way of life for a lot of people, no doubt. There's a ton of it. But the police definitely do not help the situation with how they treat people. 

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

Are they shot because they are Black ?

Is that the sole reason why they get shot ?

I'd say in most cases no, that it isn't that police are targeting people to kill. But subconconsciously I think it's hard to look at the numbers and think that race isn't coming into play. I mean just take the case of Kyle R. Who shot two people, then walked to police who didn't seem at all concerned despite the fact that he just shot two people and was brandishing a rifle. It certainly plays a role. I think in general white officers just feel more intimidated by blacks and are more jumpy in those situations. But what is outrageous is that these police officers after these incidents have more often than not walked away with no significant penalty. 

Non-violent drug offenses are another example. The vast majority of black drug offenses are weed related, where whites are more often heroin or speed related. When it comes to non-violent crimes though for similar amounts of possession black guys are far more likely to earn a jail sentence. And in general the sentences for black americans on the same crimes are longer than the sentences to white convicts. 

And of course in some cases there is still pretty outrageous racism. I'd encourage people to watch this segment from John Oliver this week. It starts at the 9:53 mark but if you are impatient skip to 10:33. Why is it important? Because the Kenosha Sheriff standing behind him's rant. It was obviously a racist rant. 
 

1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The police kill more white people annually than black people...almost twice as many. How about people look at the facts and not rely on their emotions when thinking about policing in their communities.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Black Americans represent 13% of the population, white Americans are at least 60.4% and up to 72% depending on how you classify hispanics.  But let's say 60% to 13% you'd expect if all things were equal to see 4.6x more whites shot by police than blacks if all things were equal. That's not what you see:

Year on Year Number of Whites vs. Blacks killed ratio:

2017: 2.04x
2018: 1.9x
2019: 1.57x
2020: 1.96x
Average: 1.87x more whites are killed by police than blacks.
Expected ratio: 4.6x more.

That means that blacks by population are shot 247% more often than whites. And it's not just in shootings. You can see similar numbers across the board in the justice system. 
 

1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Biden’s attempt to blame the president for the violence undercuts his condemnation of that violence. Giving the rioters an excuse basically gives them a pass. And how is Trump responsible for riots that were started and continue with the goal of ending his presidency?

Circular logic at its worst. 

If Trump had simply shown any compassion or willingness to reach out, instead of saying that we needed to show strength when people were protesting peacefully, and then snatching up people in unmarked vans, shooting them with gas or rubber bullets, doing low altitude fly overs, etc this might have ended a long time ago. Instead he's given us such brilliant healing messages like, "when the looting starts the shooting starts!" Or retweeting people saying that Kyle R (the 17 year old who just killed protesters) is the reason they support Trump. And let's not forget this gem which is particularly relevant, "When you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just seen them thrown in, rough. I said, 'Please don't be too nice,'". And how could we forget him retweeting a white nationalist showing false stats that claimed 81% of white murders were at the hand of blacks... When the actual number is 15%. 

Trump's political career has been based on racism. From the birther movement. To trying to ban muslims from entering the country. Every opportunity he has had to try to bring people together he has dodged.
 

6 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

From the video I've seen...that would appear to be the case. I assume using lethal force in self-defense when one believes their life is at risk is still the law, even in Democrat run cities and states.

Well that's where the mystery comes in and we'll need to see what happens in the trial. He shot someone before the footage where everyone is chasing him. But in the only footage I've seen of that you couldn't really see much to determine what exactly happened. You could certainly argue with the skateboard guy he was defending himself, but was that after he had already shot someone? There were also reports and a video of people chastising him claiming he was aiming his gun at protesters or cars passing by before the incident. 

I think we'll need to see all the evidence unfold to really know the full extent of what happened. But even in the best case scenario here it doesn't seem like he is an innocent teen. He was there looking for trouble with a rifle. Certainly Trump shouldn't be out acting like he's this guys lawyer, while at the same time refusing to comment on the murders of people who don't fit into his narrative. 

22 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

That is irrelevant , the only relevant thing was whether he acted in self defence or not .

I think we'll find that out during the course of the trial. Conflicting reports on what happened. But what JingThing said is still very relevant. It shows that Trump will gladly condemn the black lives matter protestors, and try to blur the lines between peaceful protestors and trouble makers... But when it comes to his supporters he will call them great Americans and jump to their defense in the same situation. He'll encourage people to go out and put themselves in these situations if it benefits him.