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rubl
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Posts posted by rubl
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As for your Thaksin proxy thing, I'll file that under 'supposition' unless you can attach any actual facts to it.
Try wikileaks if you can access them
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We're moving off topic a bit here, but nowhere did I see an accusation of soldiers or special forces being drunk, or anyone else for what it matters. The position of a single beer can is hardly relevant and I assume you quote from the DSI report provided by k. Jatuporn ?
As I mentioned before, let's wait for MP Jatuporn's hour of fame in the censure debate. The speculation here has reached a point where it becomes a bit Kafkaesque
I was a bit disappointed the beer can, nor the sloshed soldiers were mentioned by MP Jatuporn. He did shout a lot, but if he brought up new revelations I must have missed it. He did say k. Suthep spoke the truth when he said his name, and ended with the suggestion k. Suthep visit a psychiatrist. so much for revealing the validity of a VDO as mentioned in the OP
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The former prime minister asked the lawyer to open a bank account in Montenegro Republic. However, the lawyer convinced him to open a new bank account under the suspects’ name, claiming that the European Authorities might seize the amount in case of political pressure.
Reminds me of the Shinawatra Telecom holdings sold to Temasak. Thaksin did it in a way so that the 73 billion baht (almost US $ 2 billion) sell-out was all tax free to himself and his family. It was a very complicated deal involving shares in several companies and foreign controls. Perfectly legal in the margin as they say.
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I am sure Thaksin is really stressed by this
he is probably scrabbling down the back of the couch now trying to find a few coins for his dinner
The fact is he probably richer than the whole of this forum put together, maybe that is why there are the usual snide jealous remarks from the usual snide jealous posters
"Recent Trends in the Politics of Thailand: Perspectives on Thaksin Shinawatr
Thursday, 27 April 2006 00:00 Prakirati Satasut"
"On top of this, another element that Thaksin used in his rhetoric in order to set himself apart from the old politics was the logic that he constantly brought up, which was that since his wealth was so great there was no need for him to be corrupt."
Seems some of that old rhetoric is still believed by some
(edit: add: even in Montenegro not all are happy with Mr. 'clean' Thaksin
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Anyway, for his YouTube bomb threat case... if he's alleging he didn't say the words, did he ever produce what he did say in this video?
From the OP:
"Pornwat argued that the clip was doctored by someone abroad. He said he is a DJ of community radio station and his voice was doctored along with the clip."
Without having more details is sounds like the doctored tape of PM Abhisit, various words really spoken, but in different situations, times. Just like ransom notes constructed from newspaper clippings.
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Three paragraphs:
He was accused of posing his own clip allegedly recorded during his radio program declaring that red-shirt people would create turbulence in retaliation against the government.
The court ruled that the defendant could provide a proof about the date when he recorded his radio program so he could disprove the evidences of the public prosecutors.
Emerging the courtroom smilingly, Pornwat hugged his son and told reporters that he was acquitted because he could provide an alibi. He said the date of the clip was February 26 2010 but he held a radio program on February 27 2010 so the dates were conflicting.
To me it seems the prosecution made a mistake in the accusation. The clip may have been made before and only played during a radio broadcast. Enough doubt and confusing for the court to dismiss the case. All this assuming the English translation reflects the Thai correctly.
A judicial system that works, the ICC will be interested to hear this
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From the censure debate (#terryfrd):
The only truthful statement Suthep made today was when he introduced himself as Suthep Thuagsuban, Jatuporn says.
Jatuporn denies telling upcountry reds to burn city halls -- told them to use their own discretion, he says.
More conspiracy theories from Jatuporn, suggesting AV received advanced news from const court of PPP dissolution at a Samsen restaurant
Jatuporn brings up Wikileaks, asking why nothing was done abt statements made by certain respected figures. Double standards
Jatuporn getting all past grievances off his chest, accusing Suthep of involvement w. everything from dissolution of TRT to airport seizure
Jatuporn ends by suggesting Suthep visit a psychiatrist.
Good fun
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My eyes are open, I don't for one minute thing the reds are innocent in all of this, but I would rather the blame be apportioned fairly, and what the government are to blame for then lets blame them, what the reds are to blame for then lets blame them, any ambiguity such as the torching of central world is just that, ambiguity, however I find it a little strange that the fire occurred while under control of the military and that nobody has ever been arrested or charged with this offence.
I have read reports from people that were there, I will base my opinions on those reports, which seem more feasible, and since the government are adept at putting out false propaganda then some suspicion does have to fall there.
maybe one day the truth will out, probably when the dems are no longer controlling the courts/dsi/media etc
Interestingly there is no proof for lots of things which happened during March - May 2010. This leads to massive speculation related to one's personal viewpoints.
The 'I have seen', 'I have read' reminds me of some who also said 'I've seen it with my own eyes', meaning the VDO rather than having been there. Well, I saw the pink-shirts under BTS Saladaeng a few hours before someone lobbed some grenades on them, no proof, must be government for sure, I can almost hear PM Abhisit say 'kill me some'.
Random, we will never agree on any of this I'm afraid. The future may tell who's right, but as far as I'm concerned it won't be you. IMHO of course.
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The UDD has taped for posterity all their hate speeches from the stage at Ratchaprasong, broadcasted them on PTV. And now the government is guilty of killing innocents, those lovable 'peaceful protesters, not terrorists'.
In 2009 the PTP came with a nicely doctored tape with PM Abhisit seemingly saying 'kill them all'. Even now some will have PM Abhisit 'ordered' killing, and if not he's still to blame. Some logic there escapes me, probably not present.
K. Jatuporn was in his 'Ratchaprasong stage' shouting mood last night. Maybe he thinks it will be easier for people to believe him. Lots of claims, 'everyone knows', 'original' reports, colourful pictures of dead and bloody people. Somehow only red-shirts and nurses at the Wat mentioned, nothing about army / police casualties, a few innocent bystanders.
I'm afraid this censure debate will only make people harden in their current opinion, none may be swayed. Reconciliation? Poor Thailand
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If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?
was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?
If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?
In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?
Let's have some transparency here.
As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.
I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.
As it seems very unlikely PM Abhisit ordered killings and till now it's unproven, we must assume no direct order has been given. Just a normal 'cleanup as painlessly as possible'. That includes returned gunfire to 'unarmed, peaceful protesters'. Any speculation on 'order to kill' is just that.
As for CentralWorld, correct I wasn't there, I also wasn't at CenterOne, Stock-exchange, Channel3, 7/11 RamaIV, BTS KlongTeui, BTS Ratchadamri, etc., etc. Lots of red-shirts were, watch some other VDO for a change.
Is this government without blame? Probably not. Is this government guilty of murder? No. With all grenade attacks, bloodshed became unavoidable. It's really interesting to hear k. Jatuporn call some murderers, to be executed, he who shouted day and night 'I will fight till the last drop of (your) blood'.
Be real, open your eyes.
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What will elections mean for Thailand’s red shirts?
By Dan Waites, 2011-03-14
"At Saturday’s rally at Democracy Monument, I met Sombat Boon-ngam-anong, the leader of the Red Sunday group. He conceded that Pheu Thai might not win a majority at the polls. He still thought it would be the largest party. When I suggested to him that the current coalition, or something similar, could remain in power, he said: “If Pheu Thai cannot be the government, it’s OK because we have the system of democracy. Democracy is more important than who is in government. We respect the people. We respect the people’s choice.†This may be enough for Sombat, who has always stressed the fight is more about rights than about Thaksin. Will it be enough for the rest of the UDD?"
http://asiancorrespondent.com/50264/what-will-become-of-the-red-shirts/
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Most polls asking the question 'who you vote for' show civil servants / army almost equally split over PTP and Dem's. Something you'd expect to see.
Surely he was referring to the fact that the army (or certain commanders, anyway) ordered troops to vote in a certain way. This is detailed in the ANFREL (Asian Network for Free Elections) report on the election, I'll have a look for it later!
I also remember having read the 'advise by seniors'. That includes military, police, civil servant top, any of the local men / family in a patronage position. It will take more than just a few years to get rid of this as it has been ongoing for decades if not centuries.
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Step up for your 500 baht - Thaksin Shinawatra.
The going rate in Chonburi last election was 2000 baht but that wasn't from Thaksins party
Wonder what it be this time around with inflation an all. 3000-4000?
I wonder if civil servants and army will be free to vote how they want?
Just wondering which election you're referring to. Maybe the last general election December 2007 when the "Democrats completely displaced the Khunploem faction in Chonburi."
"In the ‘loyalist areas’ (south and city for DP, upper north and core northeast for PPP, Suphan-and-around for Chat Thai), there was clearly voting by team: all two/three candidates of the winning party got very similar numbers of votes.
In the south and lower north, voting seems to have been more personal. In over half of the constituencies here, the MPs returned come from two or three different parties."
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2007/12/27/mapping-the-result/
A few elected candidates were red/yellow carded, but can't find any on Chonburi.
Most polls asking the question 'who you vote for' show civil servants / army almost equally split over PTP and Dem's. Something you'd expect to see.
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Issan Rambo reminds us why he won't be joining his fellow bailed terrorist suspects to become PTP MP's.... he's already been banned...
"Now that national reconciliation is underway, we want to surrender and enter the judicial process as some of us must register our candidacy in the upcoming general election," Mr Suporn explained.
"I cannot contest the election as I have been banned from politics for five years," Mr Suporn said.
Is this the first UDD leader to publicly confirm that "national reconciliation is underway" ?
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He's no Douglas Fairbanks, is he?
Not even a Tallulah Bankhead on his best day.
Pure ignorance on my side for sure, I had to look her up:
"Tallulah Brockman Bankhead (January 31, 1902 – December 12, 1968) was an American actress,[1] talk-show host, and bonne vivante."
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Why all the hypothetical concern about what a dictatorship Thaksin will turn Thailand into when things like this are happening right now?
Why, because lots of members like to speculate, that's why. Like on
- imminent coup
- will we have elections?
- Democrats loosing or winning the elections
- the price of important articles like beer
- etc., etc.
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From todays censure debate:
On twitter:
about 16:28 #terryfrd
Chaowarin says he will keep protesting until Suthep stops bringing up Thaksin in reference to red actions.
about 16:32 #tulsathit
Red shirts & Pheu Thai to form joint 'war room' to back PT in what promises to b heated censure debate on "men in black" tmrrw.
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1. you probably mean ICC:
On 4 March 2011, the Presidency of the International Criminal Court (ICC), noting the unanimous decision of the United Nations Security Council to refer the situation in Libya since 15 February 2011 to the ICC Prosecutor and noting the Prosecutor’s letter informing the ICC President of this referral, decided to assign the situation in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to Pre-Trial Chamber I.)
2. situation in Libya totally different. As you seem to be so set on 'Abhisit ordered protesters to be killed' a further discussion is useless.
<snip>
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it pisses me off when I read about Thailand trying to sort out other countries problems while denying help themselves in ALL matters, added to the fact that most of these reporters seem to forget what Thailand has done to its own people over the past year, one thing i will say though, since the ICJ is prepared to look at gadaffi over his use of the army to kill his own people, I guess they will also look at abhisit over his use of the army to to kill thai people. The ICJ are setting a nice little precedent for amsterdam to use, abhsit will either have to admit he gave the order or say the army did it without his order.
Must have missed this one before
In the case of Libya and Ghadaffy the ICC is asked by the UN to investigate. That's part their charter. The ICC must look at it.
Apart from that there seems to be a reference to a doctored tape 'kill them all', or just an opinion that PM Abhisit ordered the army to 'get going and kill me some protesters'. Not much of a precedent there I'm afraid. Personally I think comparing the April - May 2010 protests and casualties with what's happening in Libya at the moment a gross insult.
(edit: ICJ or ICC?
On 4 March 2011, the Presidency of the International Criminal Court (ICC), noting the unanimous decision of the United Nations Security Council to refer the situation in Libya since 15 February 2011 to the ICC Prosecutor and noting the Prosecutor’s letter informing the ICC President of this referral, decided to assign the situation in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya to Pre-Trial Chamber I.)
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If this document is raised during the censure and any part of its integrity is not disputed, I'm clearly going to have to eat my hat. Time will tell...
Obviously the government will try to dispute its integrity. They're going to do that whether the evidence is real or not. So it'll be up to the viewer to decide who's more plausible.
If / When the document is NOT real there will be no reason for the government to dispute it's integrity. In that case there's not even a good reason for the government to prove the document is a fabrication. It's up to the opposition to prove it's real -
When the courts convicted 84 PAD members last year for invading a TV station, 84 out of 85 defendants were convicted.
And immediately released on bail...
Your point here ?
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Major correction: it abandons its people to 30 baht's worth of treatment.
Bumrungrat is for tourists and rich fee paying or insurance priviledged Thais. The same is said for any major hospital in any major city [major city!] outside of Bangkok. The proletariat are left to the underfunded resources of third and fourth class hospitals that can not provide the standard of treatment required. For example, even the military or civilians are quickly transferred for further burns treatment as the local hospital manages to put a band aid on it. A 30 baht max band aid.
But it takes thye attention of the Press or Royal intervention to have better resources provided by a better equipped hospital. and that can not serve a populace.
From wikipedia:
"Healthcare policies
Thaksin initiated two key healthcare policies: subsidized universal health care and low-cost universal access to anti-retroviral HIV medication (ARVs). Thaksin's 30-baht/visit universal healthcare program won the applause of the general public, but was criticized by many doctors and officials.[18][19] Prior to the program's introduction, a large portion of the population had no health insurance and limited access to healthcare. The program helped increase access to healthcare from 76% of the population to 96% of the population.[20] The program also increased workloads for healthcare employees, and caused many doctors to switch to higher paying careers. It has been criticized for being underfunded. The program led some hospitals to seek alternative sources of income, leading to a boom in the medical tourism industry, with 1.3 million foreign patients earning Thailand 33 billion THB (approx. 800 million USD) in 2005."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Thaksin_Shinawatra
Another interesting article "Universal Coverage In The Land Of Smiles: Lessons From Thailand’s 30 Baht Health Reforms
David Hughes and Songkramchai Leethongdee, 2007"
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begin removed ...
Does this news paper also publish Red Shirt Propaganda too? or only yellow clap.
... some in the middle removed ...
But antway I will pissss myself if Dems lose the election even after changing the law to give themselves a better chance lol.
Assuming you refer to TAN, I wasn't aware they publish a newspaper in English in Thailand. Are you sure? Now the Nation, they publish a lot including yellow and red clap as you so succinctly describe, some of it you'll find in this forum.
Just in case, Foodland sells big-size pampers for "urinary incontinence" cases
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Ummm.... why do people bother posting things that are quite clearly wrong when it's so easy to check? A quick google would set you right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_legislative_election,_April_2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand_legislative_election,_October_2006
Especially the third link gives interesting information on how 'democratic' things were in the first few months of 2006. Recommended reading, also for the poster of those links
Thai Opposition Lawmakers Blame PM Abhisit For CentralWorld Fire
in Thailand News
Posted
Bit surprised about the grenades 'in' CWT, don't think I heard that before. Only about the grenade attack which seriously wounded soldiers and Canadian vanderFrift, but that was outside.