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rubl
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Adding to the thrill and excitement of the Red Shirt Rally on March 12th is today's news from Jatuporn that Thaksin will be addressing the throngs of his supporters via a video link.
Jatuporn further expounded on their Red Shirt plans for the March 12th Red Shirt Rally, the March 19th Red Shirt Rally, the March 26th Red Shirt Rally, and recently disclosed April 9th Red Shirt Rally in an article in the other paper.
Will those two fugitive red-shirts UDD leaders still surrender to police during the free concert at Bonanza Resort on Khao Yai on March 26 ?
K. Arisman could sing a song while there, like his all time favorite 'I burned it my way'
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Wrong airport, legal scam? Oh ... NotTheNation
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Dr. weng is also good at accepting responsibility, like when five grenades killed a Thai lady and wounded 70+ others around BTS Saladaeng
"A Red Shirt protest leader denied the group had any involvement in the blasts. 'The explosions had nothing to do with us,' said Weng Tojirakarn, who suggested the blame could lie with a variety of other groups, including the rival protesters, the government, the army or the police." ( http://en.infoanda.com/link.php?lh=AwdcV1VVVwIH )
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I almost forgot, Dr. weng also build up political indoctrination camps. Nothing to do with communism of course, but just using propaganda techniques, indoctrination, brainwashing ( http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=50274 )
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Dr. weng had a rather solid education in propaganda and related tricks while studying in Vietnam many years ago. He has sworn off communism, but that doesn't mean he has forgotten or sworn off all the tricks he learned. K. Jatuporn's rants are child's play compared with the semi-intellectual speeches of Dr. weng. Never ever let your left hand know what your right hand does. This applies to politicians in general and it seems UDD leaders specifically.
The link to k. Somtow saying he didn't doubt Dr. weng's integrity having worked with him on a project for children, reminds me of what people used to say about some other 'well respected' people like Stalin and Mao, etc., etc.
Assuming the article that states he was in Vietnam is correct, then yes. My point was that not everyone in the CPT was ideologically committed to Maoism (or communism in general - nor even socialism), many joined out of necessity, as even moderate leftists and liberals were being harassed or even killed. One thing about Weng is he doesn't seem very 'worldly' to me, he seems more ideologically driven than someone who places a great detail of emphasis on the empirical facts staring him in the face - the sort of ivory tower idealist that many leftist academics are typically characterized as. Though obviously Weng isn't really an academic, nor one that would ever think of staying above it all in his ivory tower, but still, he does seem a little removed from reality in many of his statements, no stickler for the empirical facts, but not deliberately trying to deceive anyone either. On the Jatuporn/CTW point specifically though, I'm fully except his video to be fake or edited, but isn't it strange that Prayuth stated the troops were there just to help fire fighters? Meaning soldiers were indeed in CTW on the 19th? Don't know what to make of that.
Stalin and Mao? I see your point but I hope you're not seriously comparing Weng to two of the most despicable mass murderers in history.
Whether or not some of the current 'protest' figure were communist is ancient history. Those who were have forsworn CPT, communism and have been pardoned. For your info though a very interesting article ( http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html )
Dr. weng can be boring ""Weng" now means "to confuse," "to bore" or even "to b***s***". If you hear a youngster say "Don't 'weng' me", it means, to put it politely, "stop talking nonsense"."( http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/03/31/politics/Doing-a-weng-30125985.html ). He can be amusing "“We are being surrounded. We are being crushed. The soldiers are closing in on us. This is not a civil war yet, but it’s very, very cruel,” Weng Tojirakarn, a protest leader, told The Associated Press." ( http://dprogram.net/tag/soldiers/ ). He also said "“Myself and a lot of people, we are not crazy about Thaksin, we don’t cling to him, but we require a good, a genuine, democratic system. It’s taken too long. It’s taken my country 78 years.”" ( http://politics.gaeatimes.com/2010/04/21/red-shirts-will-alter-thailands-political-landscape-but-protesters-true-color-yet-unknown-30359/ )
Don't know why you bring up CWT, forget it. We had numerous discussions here with photos, links to articles, etc., etc. As far as I'm concerned no new evidence has come the last two/three months, no need for further discussion, we will not agree. Some are convinced the army/government torched CTW, some think that's ridiculous (me too BTW).
As for Stalin, Mao. When you say someone says Dr. weng is a man with integrity because he's so good with children I just want to stress that's nice as a character reference, but not necessarily of any value. I'm sure you're also good with children
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What do you think he's lying about specifically? Maybe he just believes what Jatuporn says (which wouldn't be that surprising having spent so long together), so he's not lying even though what he says may be untrue, well, we'll know soon enough I suppose.
Nope, he isn't a communist anymore, if he ever was one. I doubt he's motivated by financial reward either, given the numerous similar causes he's been involved in in the past. I think he actually believes what he's saying... perhaps he's wrongheaded, but his heart is in the right place. That's also what some people that know him think, even Somtow, the fierce critic of the red shirts said he didn't doubt Weng's integrity, having worked with him on a project for children (or some such).
Dr. weng had a rather solid education in propaganda and related tricks while studying in Vietnam many years ago. He has sworn off communism, but that doesn't mean he has forgotten or sworn off all the tricks he learned. K. Jatuporn's rants are child's play compared with the semi-intellectual speeches of Dr. weng. Never ever let your left hand know what your right hand does. This applies to politicians in general and it seems UDD leaders specifically.
The link to k. Somtow saying he didn't doubt Dr. weng's integrity having worked with him on a project for children, reminds me of what people used to say about some other 'well respected' people like Stalin and Mao, etc., etc.
(edit: my heart is also in the right place, the left side that is
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It is very clear from Thaksin's half-hearted support that Mingkwan will be dumped at the first opportunity.
Thaksin knows that he has no policies for PTP and nor will he provide any that threaten the north-eastern landowners who are the cornerstone of his regional support. Vague slogans in favour of the poor will do.
Do you mean north-eastern landowners fund the party, or are they MPs? What policies do you think would threaten them? Actually PTP already announced some policies a month or so ago, if you remember... although there were only three or four policies (lifting min wage to 300 baht, increasing min paddy prices etc), not exactly a complete platform.
North-Eastern landowners as cornerstone of the party suggest a certain level of support. With the historical patriarchal system that can be position, hierarchy, money support, being MP's. A bit of overlap in all of that. The 'democracy for common people' as grass-root red-shirt issue would threaten those of course. If status and authority because of historical position of the landed elite doesn't count anymore, by Jove, that's threatening.
The PTP policies announced have all the drawbacks they accuse the current government of: how does it match government income? Of course we could wait for k. Thaksin. Recently he said he had the solutions, but that could wait till he would be able to come back
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He has numerous congenital diseases? Such as? Spots before the knees? I think they've gone OTT with that one.
Did you mean '(seeing) red spots before the eyes'
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What reason he has to don't do it so to cut it all?
Simple. All the time the opposition are flapping around like headless chickens with this pathetic load of nonsense, their purile censure debates and childish writs he just quietly gets on with ensuring he does get re-elected.
Honestly, the opposition are an insult to the people they purport to represent, they should be rounded up and charged with taking money under false pretenses.
Except, of course that he's not going to win the next election....if he was going to, he'd have called the election by now!
Even if he didn't have a British passport, he'd qualify for a Chinese passport - as would 99% of the ruling elite. so lots of options available, unlike for the average poor man.
This is moving a bit from the OP, but if posters here want that ...
Whether or not k. Abhisit will win the next general election has nothing at all to do with him calling one now. In lots of democratic countries the PM may call an early election when he feels like it (i.e. opportune). I don't know any situation where the PM called for early elections BECAUSE the opposition wanted them.
As for the starting to be boring part on Thai-Chinese, please remember there are also poor Thai-Chinese, not only Thai, Khmer, Mon, Malay, etc., etc. Also some rich Thai-Chinese, k. Thaksin comes to mind. Wondering what your point on this is though?
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begin removed, mostly statements without much value ...
Many Thais IMHO are sick of the old system and want some more of the action despite "laws" enacted by a government in office thanks to the military elite and accountable to that elite.
Social change is not always a peaceful process. Just look at the American Civil War, the French Revolution, the recent events in North Africa.
As yet another opinion I will not comment on too much, but I just happen to have a different opinion.
Many Thai are indeed looking for a more open democratic model where participation is not just a right on paper, but also in practice. Till now elite of any and many colours and old & new have been able to get their way as they used to. Change has been slow, but mostly steady. It's unfortunate that the original red-shirts have had their cause hijacked by UDD, PTP and k. Thaksin. All we hear is 'bring back Thaksin', 'accountability' (for the others), etc., etc.
To compare the Thai situation with some historical events and the current North African / Arabian changes is a bit misleading. The unrest in March - May 2010 did not lead to many changes, the protesters were seen as violent agitators rather than 'democracy fighters'. Neither UN, ICC or major countries really care, they see it as an internal struggle between two types of elite. Poor common people, shafted as usual, by both sides as well. Good as cannon fodder for the elite. Remember k. Jatuporn saying 'I'll fight on till the last drop of blood', may be he didn't mention it wouldn't be his
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UDD core leaders eye expanding support base before election
BANGKOK, 8 March 2011 (NNT) � Newly-released core leader of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) Nattawut Saikua has pledged that he will not incite violence but will instead garner more support for the group before the general election.
Mr Nattawut reaffirmed that he and other UDD core leaders, who were recently bailed out after being charged for terrorism, would make their appearance on stage during the upcoming rally on 12 March. However, he assured that they would not attempt to provoke hostility against the Government and would abide by all bail conditions prescribed by the court.
In preparation for the next general election, Mr Nattawut revealed that the core leaders would fly under the radar for the time being to focus on forming more networks and gaining more supporters.
As for which member of the Pheu Thai Party would be fielded in the election, he said the party executives would have the authority to decide.
The core leader also insisted that the UDD would carry on its bid to free up to 98 members still locked up in various prisons nationwide on terrorism charges.
-- NNT 2011-03-08
Still puzzled. How does 'more support for the group' relate to the elections? The group is most likely the UDD, but that's not a political organization. The UDD need to prepare for the next election? Because some UDD leaders try to stand for the PTP it's not automatic that all UDD members or other type of red-shirts agree with this. 'Fly under the radar'? Need time to create a few more nice video clips? Will we see more propaganda of which the UDD has shown to be masters? Dr. weng had a really relevant education in that aspect, way back in the 70's in Vietnam. Some UDD leaders may have renounced communism, but it seems not the usual tricks associated with it
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There will be a dinner party in which northern and central red-shirt members will attend.
Oh good more mama noodles for the mob, wonder what the guests of honour will get?
Missed the diner info first time. To avoid double standards a petition should be lodged with the Election Commission to investigate this political dinner. Certain donors may be promising heaven on earth.
BREAKINGNEWSPheu Thai calls for probe into Democrat dinner
The Pheu Thai Party on Tuesday lodged a petition calling for probe into the fund-raising dinner organised by the Democrat Party.
The main opposition party said the Election Commission should investigate suspicious campaign contributions solicited at the dinner party.
"Certain donors reportedly have less than Bt1 million earnings but contributed over Bt1 million to the Democrats," Pheu Thai deputy spokesman Jirayu Huangsap said.
-- The Nation The Nation
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I can see a lot of facts from Weng that may or may not be proved. The only way this will be proved is to remove the Dems from office and let somebody else hold the enquiry. I still believe that if it appears likely (and I do believe it will happen) that PT will win an election, something, someone or an event will stop them taking office. All the current cover ups will be exposed in months... They will never let that expose happen
A fact is only a fact if it can be proven, you are referring to information with unproven value. Personally I don't think to prove something about Dr. weng requires a new government, or removing Dem's from office. Just watching some of the PTV clips with broadcasts from the main stage at Ratchaprasong April-May 2010 and other speeches already give an indication of the integrity of Dr. weng. At least he (reluctantly) offered excuses and said the red-shirts had probably been a bit hasty storming a hospital. Haven't heard or read any on common guild for 90 deaths though
EDIT: add: the current and previous cover-ups are indeed being exposed. We already know a bit more about those 60+ grenade attacks, the 'burn-it-my-way' stance, the 'last drop of blood', but not my blood heroism. more to come.
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Having a Thai doctor examine Vera would seem like a slap in the face to Cambodia. It might not be a good idea.
Also, can a Thai doctor practice medicine in Cambodia? Are there licensed doctors in Cambodia?
Assuming k. Veera has a physician he normally consults, it's good practise to have the guy around. That physician may not be able to 'practice', but could accompany and assist a Cambodian doctor. Numerous face-saving possibilities
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Actually I think today's move was a good move, and they actually sent someone of rank to oversee it. In fact, even though the man in charge was police and not Army -- the guy was equal rank to Chamlong.
The main difference I assume is that the police chap is currently in rank and serving and k. Chamlong had that rank before retiring.
My thoughts were about social peers/equivalents (not that the army is likely to see the police as peers) --- I just think that had it come to higher level discussions, that it would have remained more civil and had better results than had they sent a Pol Lt Col.You're absolutely right, jd. I forgot: TiT
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Did I read somewhere that PTP would have 40hrs to speak on their motion and the Govt 20hrs to reply?
If this is true then it is clearly a case of double standards and I would expect PTP to be complaining bitterly as they are so keen on eliminating double standards.
But then again possibly not, when it works for them it would be OK.
K. Chalerm voiced his concern that the PTP might not have enough information for a three day debate. So to allocate 40 hours to PTP must clearly be a trick by the current government and maybe the PM himself, that British oppressor
EDIT: add: 40+20=60 hours in THREE days? Don't these people need sleep?
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Actually I think today's move was a good move, and they actually sent someone of rank to oversee it. In fact, even though the man in charge was police and not Army -- the guy was equal rank to Chamlong.
The main difference I assume is that the police chap is currently in rank and serving and k. Chamlong had that rank before retiring.
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now, a fourth Red Shirt Rally for the month of March....
Red-shirt Group to Stage Rally in Phichit
The red-shirt group has announced holding a mass rally in the lower northern province of Phichit next week as part of its upcountry campaign.
Red-shirt member Sunee Luangwichit stated the pro-Thaksin movement will stage a rally in Phichit province this Sunday, a day after the mass demonstration in Bangkok.
The event will center on promoting democratic principles and voicing opposition against any military coup.
It is likely to be held at Thungyai Temple in Pho Prathabchang district.
There will be a dinner party in which northern and central red-shirt members will attend.
The highlight will be the introduction of MP candidates for Phichit and nearby provinces as well as a phone-in by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.
She added the function will be broadcast live on the Asia Update Channel.
-- Tan Network 2011-03-07
MP candidates for the red-shirt group? Is this a new political party? Or is this candidates for MP of any political party? Now that would be a good move towards reconciliation
Unfortunately I'm afraid the correct answer is PTP MP candidates, the party led from afar by a person who doesn't know any red-shirts. How cynical can one get
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Mr Prompong noted that usually an embassy official would come out to accept public petitions, but in his submission of the letter today, it was a security guard to take the issue. He was afraid that embassy officials might be lobbied, and that Pheu Thai's petition might be submitted in vain.
May be the Embassy doesn't see the submission by PTP spokesman Prompong as a 'public' petition, more like national politics they should stay far away from.
Rumour has it k. Prompong will go to Newcastle himself to investigate if the British Embassy doesn't co-operate. Would be good for a new comedy series on television "Prompong, P.I"
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The trouble is that the PAD movement has the support of a number of foreign "useful fools", as Lenin called them in the context of the horrors of the Soviet Union.One wouldn't compare the two in all respects of course but for some there is no crime, no lie, no abuse that wouldn't attract support, albeit guarded, if it could be lined up against the Redshirts and the arch demon Thaksin.In the case of the elite and their mainly Sino Thai middle class hangers on this is in some ways understandable (if not entirely rational because a fairer and more peaceful Thailand benefits everybody).However for some their objectivity is long gone having been consumed by hatred and in some cases fear.Thailand desperately needs a commentator with the honesty and vision of George Orwell, someone who despises Thaksin but can see and describe the repulsiveness of the elite forces ranged against the movement Thaksin started
It's more surprising that some foreigners go down this line.There is a case to be made against "rule by the mob", but it involves conceding some ground and understanding what is meant by enlightened self interest.Again with some foreigners I have been astonished to find out how appallingly ignorant many are of recent Thai history.
The trouble is that the UDD / red-shirt movement has the support of a number of foreign "useful fools". For some indeed there has been no crime except the current government, slaughter and massacring poor peaceful protesters. Sino-Thai k. Thaksin is innocent of any and all. For some objectivity has never ever been either a goal, or even a necessary objective. Thailand really needs people who can be objective, independent of any colour; who can see the repulsiveness of all who try to profit from the ignorant, poor masses.
There is no case to accept 'rule by the mob' unless you want to promote anarchy. It is indeed appalling how ignorant lots of people are about recent Thai history and all its finesses so totally different from Western way of thinking; and therefor automatically condemned as not understood.
Way to go, jayboy
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begin removed ...
"By endorsing a plan to discredit and harass political candidates, the junta has violated its legal obligation to remain neutral in the elections," said Pearson.
http://www.prachatai3.info/english/node/446
The memo is here:
http://www.hi-thaksin.net/contentdetail.php?ParamID=74539
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The prachatai article reports on what Elaine Pearson, Asia deputy director at Human Rights Watch said 22/12/2007 and concludes with
""Although Thaksin and his allies showed contempt for human rights and democracy, it is up to the Thai voters, not the military, to decide who should govern the country.""
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Interesting that people wanted chairman for censure debate only a person(s) from opposition. Between the lines, that can tell how many of Thais believe to ruling party and their coalition.
A misunderstanding on your part I think. The chairman is k. Chai as usual (it's his function in parliament). What people like is k. Chalerm to lead the censure debate for PTP, the opposition. Can't blame them, k. Mingkwan (PTP MP, selected by the opposition to lead) is not really an inspiring speaker where as k. Chalerm is always good for fireworks and some fun.
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Could this hotel be crawling in something entomological and venomous?
One mysterious death at a location needs investigation for cause , but four at the same location over a short period of time needs to have the location closed off until a satisfactory reason/cause has been found and proven , no matter what upset is created , no matter whom owns what . The investigation should have been expedited A.S.A.P by experts in toxicological examination etc , not local " Could give a shiet ' police who have no expertise in that field .
SHAME on Thailand .
To be fair, the original article tell us "A fourth person has secretly died at a Thai hotel"
(emphasize mine)
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And the police wonder why everyone is laughing at even the possibility they could solve anything
The Thai Police couldn't find their ar*e in the dark with a torch.
The expression I think is 'couldn't find their own ar*e with both hands if they tried'
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Red-Shirt Leader Weng 'Turned Crisis Into Opportunity'
in Thailand News
Posted
The Thai public schooling system may not be perfect [sic], but not indoctrination camps. True. Thai public schools have to do with education of children, Dr. weng's schools with educating adults in things he deems knowledgable with a 'slightly' red tint to it. Why you go on about public schools I don't know, no real relation with OP or what I wrote. The red propaganda seems only aimed at discrediting this government and of course the usual stuff on k. Thaksin and his wonder-plans on economy, I'll make you rich, get me back and you will see. Red propaganda in service of democracy? Personally I don't think reds know what democracy is. Dr. weng's UDD is not the most inspiring example of democracy.
Dr. weng's schools are not camps, correct, that was a bit overdone. Attendance voluntary, 'red-shirt' ideology, 'how we see things', etc., etc. Propaganda, indoctrination, similar to 24 hours shouting slogans and halftruths as they did on the main stage April-May 2010, broadcasted on PTV and preserved for posterity. No other political party has set up these kind of schools, as you mentioned.
The Dr. Panitan speech from 23rd of March 2010 is interesting. Dr. Panitan, acting government spokesman. Apart from your quote, there's also this "The red shirts may well be confused about what they want to build, but they now have a good idea of what they are against." Mind you, that was said on the 23rd of March when most was well in the Kingdom. Makes you wonder what he would have said after the 19th of May.