rubl

Our dear TRT MP and UDD co-leader jatuporn has said this evening that run-away red shirt leader Arisman will surrender himself before March 26.

( in Thai: http://bit.ly/eBPjQB ).

The other newspaper mentioned just a moment ago that k. Nattawut complained that in the past year 'we' have suffered excruciating pain and been suppressed by the elite. On the private satellite station he invited his brothers and sisters to come to the party tonight.

(other link, same article: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gGI1ON2HVrrMxrKPKqyX0qJrpr5Q?docId=CNG.a02012aae39ef7633415c33c7bb96572.7f1 )

As mentioned in another topic the red-shirts or the UDD faction of them are not communists, but they have just copied the terminology and propaganda tactics. We certainly suffered especially those who talked their supportes into a frenzy and surrendered before any of their blood could be spilled.

Waiting for news on k. Thaksin's phone-in / video-in. He said before he would stand behind them, not know them, get me back I have the solution. At least k. Thaksin never really mentions 'elite', probably he realises he's one of them

Not for me, I worked all day.

While a bunch of red shirt-supporters here sat around and smoked Ice and drank whiskey for almost the full 11 hours I was at work.

Just a comparison.

My contract mentions Monday/Friday only. Unfortunately the no-OT-paid with 'no contractual obligation to OT' doesn't work well when there's a problem and company or customer phones me to ask to 'drop by'. Of course solving a problem and seeing smiling faces helps a lot

I work more than most Thai people, I make more money than most Thai people and I pay more taxes than most Thai people -- and yet I am supposed to have understanding when deadbeat relatives call and make the gf cry out of guilt of not sending them enough money?

Where can I sign up to protest the injustices that is *really* the issue here? Not any of this Red Shirt nonsense.

Please address your grievances to:

Whinge Department

The Ministry For TAWP's Personal Affairs

Government House

Bangkok

Don't forget to provide information in THAI with translated documents, or other material duly certified by a notary or lawyer and legalised by the MoFA. Before depositing your grievances and documentation you have to register and pay the services fee of THB 500. The registration must be done in person at the Immigration Services, Chaeng Wattana. The registration gives you a registration number which must be used on all correspondence with the Whinge Department. Failure to do so may invalidate your registration.

(PS, sorry, slow Saturday)

interesting reading, but posted over 5 years ago and not a word in it about murdered Somchai.

many more murdered since then by the government officials, not many of those murders were admitted, mostly it's the old style denial

More yes, many more, don't know. IMHO the numbers have decreased significantly over the last few years. Remember k. Somchai 'disappeared' March 2004, Krue Sae Mosque Incident April 2004, Tak Bai October 2004, War on Drugs 2003 - 2004.

Is it really necessary to describe anyone on the forum as "Red" simply because a different viewpoint is expressed?

Not really, but it happens both ways. Dear member truethailand said "Most threads are started by the anti red mob," ( http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=4275089 )

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The rice farmer, witness 41, gave a very bizarre testimony indeed. He said he'd been hired to make bamboo rockets, hid in the wat for four days, then saw five people shot by the men in black and burned in a bunker in the middle of the road outside the temple.

... end removed

And I thought the bodies had been moved by truck and some hospitals cooperated in 'getting rid' of them. Like in 2009 when hundreds disappeared. Let me check the RobertA report, my authoritative source on government atrocities and peaceful behaviour by protesters

it is not on the shelf, it is clearly being dealt with, i seem to remember you saying the yellows are being dealt with for the airport takeover but it takes a long time, just as it takes a long time to deal with this issue,

but well done, in the first post you have managed to turn a thread about the PAD into a thread about the government at that time, tedious in the extreme. Every thread is derailed by your nonsense.

i wonder if the mods can change your log in name to Cyclops, it seems you only use one eye and it is used to ignore the obvious and just try to exert your propaganda in favour of anything non red.

I am all to familiar with the notion that court cases can take a long time here, but in what way is it being dealt with? Do you have any updates since September 2009?

Do you not consider the cases related? They are, afterall, concerning the same incident.

Given that there are 16,897 threads, do you think you are hysterically exaggerating even a smidgen when you say "every thread"? Also, am I the only one guilty of your accusation or should I post the dozens of your own off-topic posts or the thousands made by others to exert their propaganda in favor of anything pro-Red?

Most threads are started by the anti red mob, 3 or 4 of you hi jack the thread and derail it. If you go back and dont be selective you will see how many times a subject is turned into anti red propoganda. By the way can you link your photos to their direct online source and not some bucket account...some of us would like to view the story it came with.. unless they are your own personal photos, in which case I apologise

My ears got itchy, almost like someone was mentioning my name

Just for the fun of it I would like someone could produce a complete list of ALL cases filed against red, yellow, black and blue, and the status of those cases. I'm not even asking about the righteousness of them, just a simply list. Must be close to a hundred by now. In Western countries that might take a decade or two to sort out.

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So that's presumably why no one in the Thai media has really questioned it. The only suspicious thing is the slightly different shaded pages that you noted, but if you read it, (according to my friend) you certainly wouldn't doubt the authenticity of it.

After all our discussions and with help of your friend I'm really prepared and willing to believe anything you post here. Call me naive if you want

They certainly made a big show about collecting blood, even off children. Did they just throw that blood away (I mean besides on the steps of government house and Abhisit's gate)? There was animal blood mixed with it, although that was denied by the red shirts at the time.

I do remember reports that the blood was actually tested and shown to be HIV+. I'll have to do some searching to find that report.

thanks, maybe I did miss something. If you find it, I would like to see it.

Somewhere on these pages, search for HIV

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/04/02/saturday’s-rally-liable-to-be-violent-and-halt-new-negotiations/

http://www.isnhotnews.com/2010/04/page/210/

From the OP:

"The wind of change that's blowing through the Arab world is re-energising the Red Shirts who are still hurting and tired from fighting last time. But the fight will go on," Nattawut Saikuar, who was among those leaders recently freed on bail, told AFP in an interview.

What k. Nattawut says is that what happens in the Arab World has a value, significance which is recognised and therefor helps red-shirts in Thailand. I don't want to sound too condescending, but I'm afraid someone has to explain to the red-shirts what the problems are about and translate it to Thai circumstances. For k. Nattawut that may simply be a recap of one of his speeches last March - May 2010 with 'Arab' thrown in every once in a while. May I suggest he also starts to refer to the 'fight for democracy' in Wisconsin, USA? Also refer to ICC please, who were asked by the UN to have a look at the 'possible crime against human rights' there

mmm can you remind us why he lost his seat in the first place? was it because of a corruption scandal?

What was the punishment for being corrupt? 2 years in prison? Nope he got promoted to deputy PM!!

Now that's what you call power!!

K. Suthep didn't loose his seat, he stepped down. Minor difference, legal, although marginally so. Legally he could stand again for MP and 80+% of the people voted for him. Unfair? Maybe, but very legal. PTP fielded a candidate who was free to walk around, but didn't get too many votes. K. Jatuporn didn't bother to show his face, down there even his mother doesn't really like him anymore it seems.

From the OP:

Red-shirt leaders who are still on the run will surrender to the authorities by the end of next month to fight legal cases against them, red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan said yesterday.

Erhm ... I vaguely remember both k. Jatuporn and k. Nattawut mentioned late March, this year as well. What happened ? Someone checked with a Mor Do and late April was better ?

You may need to get this idea out of your bonce that this is just about oiks from the farm. There is serious money being ploughed into this, the poor are just the foot soldiers.

After reading the above part and still remembering the post of truethailand before where he said

"I would disagree, local meetings up here in the NE are drawing substantial crowds...and they are not being paid."

I'm really wondering about the value of what dear member 'truethailand' writes. I mean we talk about reply #14 and #15, about 19 minutes apart. There may be value to it, but I'm afraid it does need some solid explanation

Work out how much this really is - to spend 1 billion you would need to spend about 30m a day for a whole year to lose it. In multiples, this is serious money.

Having slightly less to spent every day I might consider becoming a socialist or even a bloody communist. I don't mind some people earning or having much more, but where's the limit?

How much does that 2 minute flight in Scotland between Westray Airport and Papa Westray Airport cost?

�39.00 per person return

I don't know how long this 2-minute scheduled flight already exists, but if thrifty Scotsmen think it's worth the money it must be. Probably beats swimming over

it's funny how these selfish, greedy scoundrels of politicians always tell others "to put the country first"!!

"The country must not be damaged" What is this a choke?? Nobody could ever damage this country more then all these corrupt politicians and their backers behind the scene.

Why should the red shirt protest spiral out of control?? Is he and his military pals planning something behind the scene - there has been no violence during any of the recent protests why should there be any now?? We all know the people with the real power behind the scenes don't want elections - are they planning something??

Suthep is considered the most dishonest politician in Thailand - can't he just shut his big mouth - nobody in this country wants to hear what he has to say - he seems to be the only one who is not aware of this!

Selfish politicians, both current and ex. Like k. Thaksin who recently said to have all the answers to solve your problems, but that could wait till he was back.

Why should protests spiral out of control, why indeed? Maybe just a not to subtle reference to March - May last year. As for the government planning something, you're right. The bloody ... are planning an early election, dam_n them.

Not sure k. Suthep is considered the most dishonest politician in Thailand, looks like there are a few who could qualify. To add dishonest to politician seems a bit of a pleonasm IMHO

From the OP:

Jatuporn confirmed that a video clip to be released by the Pheu Thai Party in the censure debate, expected to discredit the government, has not been edited as accused by Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban.

Rumour has it the video clip has been extensively studied by foreign expert Joe Ray Witty, found to be true and reported to the ICC. Unfortunately the ICC is prejudiced, they like to look at African cases

"The red and yellow shirts should know it doesn't matter which side to win or lose but the country must not be damaged," he said.

All this from the man who sat in on meetings that sanctioned the shooting of hundreds of innocent people.

Pray, elaborate. I didn't think k. Suthep was in function during the 2003 - 2004 War on Drugs when hundreds thousands of innocent people were killed ?

He cites no reason for his belief. Why would it necessarily turn violent? Last year the protests went on for days until the government encited the violence and started shooting innocent people. Sounds like typical villifying of the opposition. Anyway I'm going to walk over and check it out. The protests have become quite a tourist site! Hopefully I don't get shot at by the government's men in black!

Very unlikely you will get shot even if you would deserve it. Don't worry most non-red-shirt, innocent bystanders who were killed or wounded were so by having grenades lobbed on them

Emptyset - if the red shirts reject Thaksin there will be no more finance at rallies and no more handouts from his stolen tax money IF he comes back to power. There will also be no more policies as he has the only ones. Will the red shirt movement make that brave step and TRULY campaign for democracy??? - Personally I doubt it. When a puppet cuts its own strings it usually rolls over limply.

There are other sources of finance and definitely other people quite capable of coming up with policies, I'm sure. What do you mean by "stolen tax money" anyway? This govt is giving out more-or-less the same "handouts" now, so I doubt that's the primary issue. Although I agree with your implied point that simply throwing money at people isn't going to solve things longterm.

Valid movements will always find resources like money and policy makers. Some may attract less respectable financiers who need tools for their own purpose.

The rest is a bit mixed, difficult to understand and relate. 'stolen tax money' followed by 'this government hand-outs' suggests a relation which isn't there. 'doubt it's the primary issue' doesn't say what part of an issue it is?

A rewrite with clearer structure may be in order, young master Emptyset

EDIT: Incidentally - I used to consider anyone that posted that Infowars page as anything other than a joke instantly discredited and not worth listening to again. But I suppose these days I'm willing to give even Jatuporn another chance...

Thank you for this vote of confidence. Structures nicely with the previous. To (partially) agree and oh by the way ....

Just a minor suggestion that none of the posters remarks should be taken serious, not really.

May I ask where you studied and under whome ?

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I'm just saying in this single instance, nothing has been conclusively proven. Once again, the usual straw man, trying to discredit my argument by attributing to me a position I've never held, in this case, that of a delusional foreign red shirt supporter. In fact I think Weng is perhaps lying or to some degree in denial to himself about the role of the MiB and who they were, but I don't think he's purposefully lying or manipulating people as part of some dark plot, which is what you seem to think he's doing (an opinion apparently based on the fact that he's ex-CPT).

What single instance? k. Therdpoum?

As for Dr. weng (as part of the OP) anyone who is in possible denial of himself is at least lying to himself and most likely others. That's part of the denial. Others seem to think Dr. weng may be purposefully manipulating people and I tend to agree. In my case though not because of his ex-CPT status, more because of documented statements of him and his fellow UDD leaders during the last two years. Your previous description of 'ideologically driven' also suggest even you would not be surprise by accusations of propaganda and indoctrination. Fits ex-CPT-ers amongst others.

As I pointed out before, Therdpoum, a PAD activist, would have reason to discredit the UDD and his former comrades, even though they might be well acquainted with these tactics, it doesn't mean they used them or that they were part of the team that planned the violence. I mean, you could write a similar article about the PAD, that PAD contains former CPT and some were drilled in Vietnam, and therefore PAD formed a united front, used provocative violence (or provocation at least), won over the army, etc etc. But it'd be meaningless.

Therdpoum Chaidee was a former CPT member, former TRT MP under k. Thaksin, collaborater of the UDD and PAD leader. That of course means to some he either knows nothing, or can't be trusted

I found some interesting articles not quoted yet. It gives some insight in 'propaganda' used. Read them I like to suggest.

Like 'Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party.' (2010-05-18 http://www.infowars.com/thailands-thaksin-shinwatra-marxists-and-the-nwo/ ).

Also this interesting article 'according to admissions reported in Le Figaro (May 21) from Therdpoum Chaidee, collaborator of the Red Shirt leadership and a former Thaksin-supporting MP'(2010-05-27: http://www.themarknews.com/articles/1583-restoring-hope-to-thailand )

And last but not least 'The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict.' (2010-05-20: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-446639 )

Dr. weng is also good at accepting responsibility, like when five grenades killed a Thai lady and wounded 70+ others around BTS Saladaeng

"A Red Shirt protest leader denied the group had any involvement in the blasts. 'The explosions had nothing to do with us,' said Weng Tojirakarn, who suggested the blame could lie with a variety of other groups, including the rival protesters, the government, the army or the police." ( http://en.infoanda.c...lh=AwdcV1VVVwIH )

So what's the difference between Weng and the government, who you support? Also, there's been no definitive proof it was the red shirts who fired the grenades, despite the BMA's (or was it Suthep's?) claim at the time that they had video footage that proved it was fired from the red zone. There were conflicting reports at the time and nothing was resolved.

The government already indicated (the DSI that is) that some deaths April/May 2010 are caused by army action. You're right, they should be more open and stop obfuscating. The red-shirts should do the same, till now I only heard them complain about massacres, slaughter, army firing thousands of rounds into protesters, 'it wasn't us, maybe others?'

There may be conflicting videos, mostly because it's not always clear when made, where made, how made. What is clear though is more than 10 red-shirts / guards arrested for terrorist attacks with grenades, possession of weapons, etc., etc. An apartment in Nonthaburi with remains of a failed '101 bomb making'. Of course it's pure coincidence that only non-red shirts were killed or wounded by grenade attacks. The fact that nothing is resolved in a court case doesn't mean there is no overwhelming evidence against your 'peaceful protesters, not terrorists'. Ask the Canadian reporter vanderGrift if you don't want to believe me. The most intriguing statement I've always found 'army in gunfire exchange with unarmed protesters'