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rubl
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Posts posted by rubl
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I don't think Thaksin knows much about economics, I think he took a lot of credit for what was the work of Somkid and others in his team. Why was 'Thaksinomics' a sham, though? I don't think there was much special about it, just basic 'third way' economics... the dual track strategy of trying to make big business succesful and then some measure of redistribution to the 'grassroots'. I don't think the current government is doing much different, are they? 'Thaksinomics' is still the order of the day, it's become the new concensus, practiced by all parties, whatever their rhetoric about 'sufficiency economy' etc. Mind you, I'm merely an interested layman when it comes to economics, so perhaps you could detail how 'Thaksinomics' was a failure and what the current goverment are doing different... ? And also explain how Chavalit 'kicked off' the 97 crisis plus what measures Korn took that PPP didn't... if you could... ?
I'm not disagreeing yet, just want to know your reasoning, because it seems to me that many Thais who aren't 'red' (indeed some who are very anti-red) have told me that they respected TRT's economic team and that that was the best thing about Thaksin's government (perhaps the only redeeming factor for some). I definitely agree that Thaksin benefited from a good deal of economic luck compared to the current government though.
Just for info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinomics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinocracy
As for the defence and fall of the Thai Baht in 1997 no clear answer. Lots of money movements in the days before the Baht was floated (downwards). Lots of money movements after. The term 'insider job' comes to mind especially since the government kept saying 'we will not float (the Baht)'. They gave up when the foreign reserves were spent, $26B if I remember correctly. I also profited, but by accident. At that time salary in foreign currency but spent in Thailand, double my money
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Here we go.....Reds stole them right? gives the illegitimate government an excuse to shoot innocents again, next major protest watch the blood in the streets..... sadly.....
Maybe yellow-shirts wanting to march on Cambodia, maybe rebels from down South, maybe some enterprising businessmen, maybe etc., etc.
As for next major protest, that will be on the 11th I think. Should be really peaceful although a bit of a traffic jam around Democracy Monument. Road rage may be expected
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PM thinks will be no disruption of censure debate, by the rally. He don't think(didn't say) what might be reaction among the protesters when they hear result of censure motion(as you think).
Me, personally, have no reason to wonder. One or two members of Cabinet will fail. Not all. Someone will be sacrificed in the name of peace. Political solution.
No one will "fail". If the red shirts PTP had any evidence of anything, they couldn't keep their mouth shut about it for this long.
perhaps you are right about their "skills" in politic but however i bet some one will be out of the game. One or 2 of them. PM knows in this moment that would be very clever to do so protesters will be quenched in their "thirst of blood". Some one will be given on plate. Meaningless figures and will be replaced from the people from same parties and no big deal. We will see. If we can go on the previous censure debates, nothing will happen. With k. Chalerm wanting to be the last and stress all of k. Thaksin's achievements we have a clever politician, but Thaksinomics and Thaksinocracy are past their 'due by' date. I somehow don't think the last six hours of the debate will be a refute / re-emphasize, but more an opportunity to profile k. Thaksin, Lord and Saviour. Another reason I said before to wonder how the UDD protest will end Sunday morning. Should be very peacefully, none of the UDD leaders want to go back to that horrid jail where their health suffered so much
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He said the only chance for Pheu Thai to wrestle power from Abhisit was by showcasing the achievements of ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.
Commenting on speculation about a snap election, he said Abhisit would try to cling to power for as long as he could.
K. Chalerm should quote from the wikipedia pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinomics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinocracy
Very, very interesting.
As for snap elections, k. Thaksin knows how to do that as proven February 2006, but PM Abhisit is currently waiting for the censure debate. He wanted to give the opposition a fair chance to comment on the government's performance. Once done, we'll have a House dissolution and following new general elections. Aim for June, as far as my crystal ball tell me
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Elcent, so your flawed assertion is that 1) Peoples was flown out of Egypt 2) Most people will not be flown out of Libya 3) therefor the workers in Egypt must have been Yellow Shirts ('middle class') 4) while workers in Libya is Red Shirts ('lower class') 5) since the government choose the method of transportation out of spite and not necessity.
However since 5) is an incorrect assertion all your other assertions fall flat and your political bias is exposed.
An 'oops' situation methinks. Your reply should be aimed at 'IanPrince99'. The posts of 'elcent' are very much appreciated.
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Thai in Egypt were mostly Yellow shirt, student from rich parents; they were flown out. Thai in Libya were mostly Re-shirt poor worker, they will be ship out, if lucky. DOUBLE STANDARD. Don't lie about the air-space is close. Brit, European etc have been and is currently flying their citizen out.
I assume you can point me to a webpage where I can find these details you refer to ('mostly yellow shirt in Egypt')?
Not in the mood to wait I just add my own answer.
The situation in Egypt was hectic, but rather isolated, mostly Cairo. Planes could come/go without real problems. For Thailand some 2600 students, about 90 seem to have been flown out to Jordan. Probably the students (but don't know) are from the Southern provinces of Thailand. Neither students nor parents are likely to be yellow-shirts in the sense of PAD/NTP. Some countries sent ships and Thailand asked Malaysia/Singapore for space on them (Asian Cooperation).
Libya is a bit further away, started later and the revolt is much more violent. The Libyan Airforce is shooting. No airline is bound to risk lives, planes, insurance in such a case. Ships seem a better choice. Some seem to have made it in buses through the desert, like a six day trek. Lots of foreigners (i.e. non-Libyans) stuck in Libya. The level of violence was not expected at all I guess.
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The deputy prime minister overseeing national security vows to keep the country in order during the forthcoming no-confidence debate.The prime minister affirms the current protests by several groups have no bearing on his intention to dissolve the House early and assures the upcoming red-shirt major rally will cause no disruption to the censure debate.
Deputy PM thinks no-confidence debate might bring some problems in national security but the PM thinks rally will not disrupt censure debate. So strange way of thinking.
Strange thinking indeed. It's the duty of the deputy PM to make sure there are no problems, doesn't mean he thinks there will be. He's just making sure there won't be.
Personally I wonder how peaceful the protesters will disband Sunday morning after the result of the censure motion is known ?
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The deputy prime minister overseeing national security vows to keep the country in order during the forthcoming no-confidence debate.
He urges the Opposition and former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to stop causing political unrest. Sure, just name your wish so they will let you alone.
Deputy Prime Minister in charge of security affairs Suthep Thaugsuban has pledged to maintain peace in Bangkok as the red-shirt movement is set to stage a mass rally next week. So what? It is normal political activity of UDD. Not the first nor the last time they are making rally. So what is different now so statement looks like panic? No reason for any panic.
He said he has already talked to police and they will work together to ensure public safety during the censure debate period. Oh, THIS is what is different. Censure debate.
Suthep went on to say he really wanted leaders of the Pheu Thai Party and former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to cooperate with the government and not cause anymore political unrest as the government has already pledged to hold an election in mid-2011. Is this statement of Deputy PM some sign that the recent Government finaly accepting and recognize Mr. Taksin as influent political figure and factor? WOW!
He added the premier even agreed to face a censure debate as requested by the Opposition to ease political tension outside Parliament. Even agreed? Arrogant attitude of Deputy PM or just propaganda? It is duty of any PM in so delicate political processes as an impeachment is.
Suthep concluded by saying Pheu Thai should dedicate its time to prepare for the next election instead of taking to the streets. Pie-in- the-sky.
Well, stepenwolf, you had your fun. Now some logic to it.
It's perfectly understandable in the Thai political situation for a deputy PM to ask k. Thaksin to refrain from interference. Why shouldn't he with the history of the last year in mind? K. Thaksin is seen as the real boss of PTP, he needs to give his approval to all and sunder. It means k. Suthep recognizes k. Thaksin in still meddling in internal Thai affairs, safely from abroad 'bring me back, boys, I have the solution to all your problems. I'll tell you at the appropriate time after'.
As with the protest of the last months the government tries to ensure peace and order. That's normal again, not panic.
The censure debate is again a regular returning happening. To avoid any suggestion of fear the PM hasn't dissolved the House yet, but gives the opposition party a chance to prove their points. Mind you Pol.Cap. Chalerm doesn't seem to be too confident, but maybe he only doesn't like k. Mingkhan.
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Top red shirts to run for pheu thai in poll
By The Nation
The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday agreed to have the seven recently bailed-out red-shirt leaders as election candidates.
"The party resolved to welcome the red-shirt leaders and we don't think that fielding them as candidates will affect our political base in Bangkok," party executive Anudit Nakhonthap said.
Deputy party spokesman Jirayu Huangsup said the executive board discussed the red-shirt leaders' stated desire to contest the next election under the Pheu Thai banner and decided to accept them.
The seven leaders, who were bailed last week after nine months in detention, are seeking to prevent themselves being jailed again by becoming members of parliament.
Jirayu said the party has yet to consider the home provinces of the red-shirt leaders to determine whether they should be fielded in a constituency or placed on the party list.
The party may wait to announce the candidacies of the red-shirt leaders during the last period or after the House is dissolved, he said.
The executive board meeting, which included party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, party MPs' chairman Chalerm Yoobamrung and party leader Yongyuth Wichaidit, also resolved to introduce the direct-election candidates tomorrow.
Red-shirt leaders, including the seven recently bailed, gathered at Pathum Wanaram Temple at 10am yesterday to make merit for those killed during the May 19 crackdown on red-shirt protesters.
They included Natthawut Saikua, Kwanchai Praipana and Weng Tojirakarn as well as Thida Thawornset, acting chairwoman of the red-shirt movement.
Natthawut said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra phoned the seven leaders from abroad to congratulate them on their release.
Natthawut called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election, even if the Democrats were beaten by Pheu Thai.
-- The Nation 2011-02-28
Some questions about this newsflash:
'The executive board decided'. Is this a normal practice in a political party which presumably operates in a democratic manner? Wouldn't it be necessary to ask members, or member committees for their advise?
Similar question on constituency versus party list. Can someone be put on a constituency list without the approval of the members in that constituency?
Who decides the placing in the party list, assuming the order is important?
Why I ask? Well, in my country we have a 'Party-list proportional representation system' using the 'open list system'. Works differently, you get to vote directly. See the wikipedia page for details
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party-list_proportional_representation ).
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The deputy premier remarked that fugitive former prime minister Thakisn Shinawatra has pledged he will not incite chaos in the country as his request for the election to be held within this year has already been met.
Well, that's really grand of k. Thaksin
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Here's a better photo of the now-convicted Red Shirt with his nice friend, the personable Sae Daeng...who also with him when he was arrested:
Police arrest Youtuber K Thong
The Nation - March 7, 2010
Police yesterday arrested a man whose YouTube video had warned of bomb attacks and armed struggle in Bangkok.
Phornwat Thongthanaboon, who is also known as "K Thong", was seated inside a military van that Army expert Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol had taken to the Crime Suppression Division to ask about arranging for Phornwat's surrender.
http://www.nationmul...g-30124085.html
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Have you got any anti democrat photos on photobucket.com
Interesting question. What makes a photo anti-whoever? Just being questioned by police is not sufficient, that may happen to all of us. A photo is probably only anti-someone if doctored or presented in an incorrect or purposely incorrect environment.
PS don't ever, not even for fun let someone make a photo of you with your wife/girlfriend over your knees. We will accuse you of grievous assault
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Police Captain Chalerm said he was not confident if there would be enough evidences to support the Pheu Thai Party in the debate against the Democrat Party which was expected to last 4 days.
Strange, that has never stopped them before (when Pol.Cap. Chalerm led the censure debate). A mild case of 'not made here' and absolutely political shrewdness
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The acting chairperson stated that everyone arrested on political charges or held without clear evidence must be given justice and granted bail. She also stressed that there must be someone responsible for the people injured and died in the UDD protest last summer.
Sure someone is responsable. Might she start close at home with asking her husband Dr. weng and his bunch of innocent, peaceful UDD leaders ?
(edit: add: first time in many months I see 'UDD protest last summer')
(add: I hear the national hymn outside, must be 6PM, also thunder, rain coming soon I guess)
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I'm pretty sure we heard the same drivle this time last year. And, what exactly is the definition of a 'quality tourist' and 'quantity tourists'?
I say bring on the election and get this idiot out. Even Taksin wouldn't have come out with rubbish like this.
For your information, it started with k. Purachai Piemsomboon, a former interior minister under PM Thaksin in 2001. He said a.o. tourists came to Thailand for temples and culture. They would get up early to look around and therefor also didn't need long opening hours. It continued for years.
April,18, 2004:
"BANGKOK— THE law-and-order government of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has been trying to clean up Thailand's image as a good-time sex and entertainment center since his election in 2001. The latest effort focuses on earlier closing hours for bars, discos, massage parlors and karaoke halls across the country."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEEDB1E38F93BA25757C0A9629C8B63
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By the way, where can I get an "Elite" card?
Who wants a card if you can buy the company
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A fourth person has secretly died at a Thai hotel where last week two British pensioners were found dead in separate beds.
No cover up, the fourth died secretly
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A good start might be taking a bulldozer through places like Pattaya. Round up all the bargirls on the streets. Quality tourists don't flock to Thailand for ladyboys and the sex industry.
In these straightened times, that'd be a huge mistake though it makes sense as a long-term target. Fact is: 'Upmarket' Western tourists aren't travelling much at the mo; Sextourists always travel. It's not an ideal situation or long-term fix, I know. But tourist money is tourist money, and Thailand (like everywhere else) is desperate for said money right now.
Wasn't it seven or eight years ago that a Minister of Interior started with early closing hours and proclaimed tourists come to Thailand for temples and culture. Backpackers were not needed, quality tourists we look for.
Maybe k. Abhisit is catching up with his reading?
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Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the government and military could not evade responsibility because the shots were fired into the crowds from the "men in black", who were seen behind the riot force lines.
Oh, the MiB were helping the army? K. Worawut must have read Robert A's report
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Just to go back to the OP after some interesting detours.
A single death is already one to many.
When some protesters are armed, someone is bound to get hurt or killed. On April 10th 2010 19 killed including Japanese cameraman Hiroyuki Muramoto. May he rest in peace. Also the other 18 including five army personel killed by grenades.
Some here indicate this would never be allowed to happen in Europe, police would be able to handle the situation with water cannons and teargas. Now please tell me, when last did the police in Europe encounter protesters with arms and grenades?
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Abhisit has handled this like a genius though. Up there with Gen David Petraus, he set the trap and the reds walked right into it! Masterful.
Just read on nytimes:
< removed >
Now why didn't the UDD think of that after the April 10th massacre and slaughter ? I don't want to sound too cynical, but the red-shirt thing is largely forgotten in Europe and the USA. The Middle East unrest and real strife for democracy gets much more attention
If you are going to quote content from a source, according to fair use, you should also provide a link when doing so. Content has been removed.
My mistake, I thought just saying 'from nytimes' would be enough.
The page I quoted from I can't find anymore, too much dynamics in pages. It was about Libyan rebels debating asking the UN for (preventive) airstrikes. Maybe this CNN page is a good substitute, shows a real fight for democracy and human rights, and lots and lots of people killed:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/02/libya.conflict/index.html?hpt=T1
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Abhisit has handled this like a genius though. Up there with Gen David Petraus, he set the trap and the reds walked right into it! Masterful.
Just read on nytimes:
< content removed >
Now why didn't the UDD think of that after the April 10th massacre and slaughter ? I don't want to sound too cynical, but the red-shirt thing is largely forgotten in Europe and the USA. The Middle East unrest and real strife for democracy gets much more attention
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This was announced a while ago as a policy to be put forward. If I find the topic of that time I can probably predict what posts can be expected now
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The leaders of '76 would have a quite different mind set than those of 2006, different reasonings and also different views on what the outcomes could and should be. I would hope there is greater progress in the future to winnow out the old guard mindsets and install more modern thinkers. But equally it appears there is a pressing need to install better working checks and balances on the political classes to prevent the same sets of problems that seems to make the army move out of balance. They don't do it in a vacuum.
Quite sensible but I think you would find some startling similarities between the elite mindset (sorry I know that overused term pisses people off, but better than "amart"?) in 1976 and 2006.The objectives were pretty much the same.In some cases we are actually talking about the same people.Ironies abound not least that in 1976 the progressive forces were harassed, even murdered, by Red Gaurs/Village Scouts - uneducated peasants brought in from the country side.But who financed, supported and protected them? I do wish intelligent people like yourself would read some Thai history.
Going off topic now, but the amazing thing is that the late PM Samak of the PPP who was 'nominated' by k. Thaksin was one of the 'wrong-doers' in 1976. When he said 'only one died' in a CNN interview in February 2008 some of the real democracy fighters got very upset.
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Look if you don't want people to get shot you don't send armed police and soldiers into that situation. Northern Ireland was a completely different situation and yes there were armed IRA paramilitaries at demonstrations but never were so many unarmed civilians laid to waste using lethal force regardless of the fact troops were being shot at. How you can even try to justify so many civilian deaths and casualties is beyond me? It was a crime against humanity plain and simple. I remind you that in the suburbs of Paris recently they had riots that lasted months with huge damage to property and many attacks on police and police stations but at no point was a single live round fired by the security forces. Water cannons mounted on tanks and tear gas can be used with great success to disperse a crowd and at the very worse rubber bullets and buckshot. M-16s and AK-47s are not an option in a civilized world.
Look if you do not want people to be killed, you do not lob grenades on them. The police was unable or unwilling to cleanup, so the government asked the army which at first showed remarkable restrained. When they came under fire things started to go wrong.
People laid to waste? Army to blame? Already a few grenades were thrown before the army was even called to help out. Most protesters were unarmed, but those who were spoiled it for the others. In Europe if a protest would see armed people for sure special units would be called upon to target those. 'collateral damage' is ugly, people who got a grenade lobbed at them also don't look pretty.
Anyway the OP is 'citizenship issue'
130 M16s, Other Guns Stolen From Thai Army Depot
in Thailand News
Posted
Your opinion to which you are entitled. Sure a government / army conspiracy, like the theft a few months ago. Read Robert A.'s report, more of the same.
On the other hand maybe it was some of those military leaning redwards, K. Jatuporn mentioned the other day they have some. Maybe just usual Thai entrepeneurs seeking a profit by selling stuff. Maybe another reason.
Sorry, my crysal ball is on the blink again. Probably need to replace the batteries