Gaccha

I am fascinated by how the various mechanisms of the neo-liberal regimes have provided you (all of you reading this topic) with a relentance fascination in these sorts of sexual crimes.

Although there was always a narrative within the working classes against such acts (and the middle classes condoning of the corrupt working class culture has gone on since Hogarth), among the middle classes, the literature until only the 1980s was essentially accepting of men with boys (but not girls).

Running through the genealogy of the criming of sex with children, we find the concern with it a very recent phenomenon. Indeed, having sex with a woman with her on top carried a 3 year sentence but a boy a mere 2 years in the post-Roman Empire Christian west europe in some jurisdictions (I read this last week but I cannot recall the exact dates or place, but you get the picture).

So I am left to wonder how the various institutions abnormalised this conduct and how it was demarcated out as the one taboo to give you all a jouissance feeling of disgust.

I came to this forum because I could not work out why there was no new posting in the ever-popular 'farang pub' forum for over an hour. Of course, you are all here. So this topic, that offers such a quick Lacanian moment of enjoyment by denial has give you all the appropriate wet dream for the moment.

it is as inevitable as the rising of the moon, that this taboo will at some point no longer be a taboo and something quite legtimiate now will take its place. I cannot imagine what or how.

But we can see the bizarre obsession with any sexual desire of violence that the Western world has in the last 2 years grabbed. The UK has just made it illegal to possess cartoons with depictions of violence that are disgusting (note the low level of obscenity) that could be reasonably be regarded as sexually gratifying. This is comedy. But it is tragic-comedy, and you are the panto dames playing along with it.

Rather than focusing in on this locus of the institutions of disgust of the neoliberal states you should be fighting for the state to leave you alone. Get off your backs and at least sign up to the CAAN fightback.

I will throw my little stick of dynamite into this.

Stuart does rate Japanese as one of those languages he has command of. Somewhere he lists in order his level of proficiency in each languages and his japanese ability is lower than Thai but still within the the 'fluent command of' level.

Problem is, his Japanese sucks. Perhaps I am being hard. What I mean is, he is like somebody who made not too much effort for a couple of years and then shunted it out the way.

But his status as a polyglot (and this is his selling point) depends on his ability with the languages below the ones like Thai that he, like anyone else learning the language, has had plenty of time to master, i.e. those mid-ranked languages.

Now I would love someone to refute me. They need to find that ordering list of his command of languages, tell me he is not claiming to be as good as I say, and come back and tell us all.

In the meantime, Stu simply adds to a long and not very distinguished list of people I meet who claim to be fluent and are anything but.

:jap:

My favorite was when they had a fake ad running for a new bar and one of the lines was "hurry up and come before all the Indians start coming and its not cool anymore" fuc_king awesome.

One must always seize the moment when one sees a humorous moment par excellence:

**the book with the crucial phrases that make dialogue possible**

For anyone above intermediate-beginner level who has the patience to translate if they cannot understand the Japanese translations. But it will take a few sentences by me to persuade you on this because of the nature of the English language, so bear with me.

’”まさか”をタイ語で言えますか？’(Publ: Technology Promotion Association)

(210 baht)

(available at Kinokuniya Central-- about 15 copies available... they must know you're coming...)

This book was written owing to the frustration of Japanese learners that they couldn't work out how to express themselves with the language guides available. The title of the book translated to English is "How can I say 'are you serious?' in Japanese?". It has the fantastic bonus of all being on audio.

When you mention a desire to learn regular spoken Thai, English speakers tend to think of slang or casual language or the like, and I think this is because English loves to not repeat itself when pushing an idea. This means English speakers can be quite unaware there is even a concept right in front of their faces. Cynically I might suggest concepts are written in Japanese with one word, in Thai with one word, and in English in 5 words.

Each chapter of this book covers a crucial dialogue tool. Chapter 15 introduces '-すればよかった'/'น่าจะ-'

Through two dialogues (one is 6 lines long) the nuances and variable meanings of these snappy phrases are introduced. Perhaps they are equivalent to the English "It would have been good if" or "wish I had got round to".

Or as another example, ask yourself, how would you say "I went out of my way to"... or "Since I came her I might as well...", the answer is in Chaper 32.

I don't think there is anything for English speakers that deals with this, although I would be happy to be disabused of this notion.

Here is the front cover:

Here are the Ch. 15 dialogues:

15 ƒgƒ‰ƒbƒN 15.mp3

Summary

A rare, possibly unique attempt, to give Thai learners the vocabulary needed for the typical tools of conversation. All on audio.

e.g. Chapter 4 "That would have been good too", Chaper 6 "Well in that case, I don't know" etc.

The book is 120 pages long with 52 very short and sharp chapters. :jap:

------

Here is a link to Part 2

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/394599-part-2-japanese-thai-language-books/

*The best lower intermediate listening book out there*

タイ語レッスン 初級〈2〉 (publisher: スリーエーネットワーク)

Thai language Lesson Beginner 2

(publisher: 3a network)

This book's name(rather comically) is "Beginner Book 2". This displays the problem of rating diffculty levels since I think if you tried to follow it by listening only then this is obviously not Beginner level. What I do know is that any level above Beginner Level results in no book sales. So the cynic within me would suggest this book should be titled "Intermediate".

It is possible for a beginner (say someone with just 90 hours of learning) to make good use of this book. They would struggle through each vocab list for each chapter, but if they were determined enough it could be useful. Personally, I found it very useful despite already knowing 95% of the "new words" in the book list for two big reasons: the Grammar sections are beautifully laid out (I hope James Higson takes note for his upcoming revised edition grammar book) and all on audio, and the dialogues are beautifully crafted and integrated into the purpose of each chapter.

The book is obviously written by experts who know exactly what they are doing. There is a a summary in Thai and in Japanese on the purpose of each chapter. This can have interesting results. One chapter has a 9 page grammar section to make sure it gets all its points across.

Let's take a look:

Chapter 15 has the word กว่า as one of a number of new grammar points. Now obviously we all know that word already. But there are 8 sample audio dialogues to show various nuances in its uses. Simply magic.

Each chapter follows the same pattern:

--Initial conversation dialogue- slow speed

--Initial conversation dialogue- regular conversation speed ( I actually think it is read faster than regular conversation)

--Pictures to help with guessing the dialogue

--New words used in conversation (around 25)

--Related words used in the chapter (around 50 words-- you can imagine how hard this would be if you were literally a beginner)

--'Coffee Corner' {in Japanese} some interesting remarks on linguistic or cultural conventions in Thailand

--Grammar (all on audio)

--Test 1: Practice of set sentence patterns (all on audio)

--Test 2: Question and Answer (all on audio)

--Test 3: Roleplay (example conversation given on audio)

--Test 4: Final dialogue with test questions (slow speed then regular speed)

Here is the front cover:

Here is a sample dialogue (first done slow and then fast):

01 Track 1.mp3

Summary

Useful either for an advanced beginner, or an intermediate learner wanting extensive listening practice.

The great selling point is the audio for everything, and the 'audio-isation' of the grammar section. Unique. :jap:

I did one chapter a day. So finished the book within about 2 weeks, but it was a great ride. I'll go back to it until I understand everything, everytime, without fail.

---

(note: I rate language proficiency levels in line with the Japanese- Thai language Exchange Organisation that rates by 5 levels for its annual exam)

Thanks Gaccha... this looks really interesting. Can you give a list of the 5 topics?

I'm planning on going to Bangkok in a few weeks to go book shopping so if you can possibly finish your recommendations by then I'd really appreciate it!

The book is sectioned as follows:

Prologue- Basic words

Part 1 Movement and feelings

Part 2 Everyday life

Part 3 Society life

Part 4 Culture

Part 5 Flora and Fauna

The books for Japanese speakers to learn Thai invariably put the books in English to shame. But among the enormous number of them there are some that are genuinely useful even if you don’t even know what ‘sayonara’ means. So, one book at a time, I’ll offer some recommendations.

These are all books I’ve used from cover-to-cover and argue that there is no equivalent among English books. They are books that you wouldn’t just buy on a whim because they are expensive (about 650 baht for this book below).

*The best vocabulary builder there is*

‘Ima sugu hanseru taigo tangoshu’ (published by Toshin Books)

[and in English it says] ‘Oral communication training series’

今すぐ話せるタイ語単語集 (東進ブックス)

(available at Kinokuniya Central World)

Under 5 sections, it introduces the basic 2,000 words. Now, other books do this, but this one, for virtually every word, offers an example sentence. …And the whole book is on CD.

Here is the front cover:

And here is a sample page from the Politics/Economics/Society section of the Thai audio:

(there is no annoying Japanese audio)

29 Track_29.mp3

You can see that the sentences offered are quite interesting, not simply “My name is Bob”. I learnt several grammar points and expressions from the book. But it’s beauty is you can learn each word in context and repeatedly hear words rarely spoken, but often read--‘ constitution’, ‘coup’, ‘civilisation’ etc.

Okay, so there is no English translation, so it will be a lot of hard work for anyone below Advanced Beginner level. But persistence would be rewarded.

It has all the professionalism that is typical of the Japanese publishers. The Thai is all written in Thai, there is a romanic transliteration for it and the sentence on the audio, so any non-Japanese/non-Thai reader can read it.

On the rare occasions where there is no sentence, a picture is used instead.

----

I will do more posts but this is my big recommendation for vocab building. My copy is well thumbed.:jap:

Why not buy a Paul Smith suit now. I just got one of their Made in Japan suits (wackier than the usual) at 50% off. Ok it was still not cheap but they have some suits on sale at 70% off.

Their tailoring is superb and the designs will last.

Fortunately though, I am not too cool to wear Paul Smith.

Hat tip to you sir.

I will be on the next boat to the shop. That is good. I can only hope they can convince me that I am not too cool after all.

A slim-fit Paul Smith suit I owned when I lived in Japan was the only suit that ever had people say 'Wow'. It's just a shame I am too cool to wear one now.

How do you navigate/manage the bus system, Mystery?

I know, if you're making a single route/trip repeatedly, that's no problem to handle...

But if you want to go somewhere, trying to figure out which bus goes where can be a bit tough...

And then, in my experience, some numbered buses that have a certain route sometimes don't follow the full route and stop short.... And trying to figure which ones go the full route vs. which ones stop short can be a problem, if you can't read the Thai language signs.

Unfortunately, the bus system doesn't do nearly as a good a job at documenting their routes and activities in English as the BTS and MRT systems do.

That, and, IMHO, there tends to be better eye candy on the BTS vs the buses...

John, don't tell your gal this but if you hang out on the lil green monsters (3.5 baht jobbies), the eye candy falls on top of you naturally.

Those "lil green monsters" are no longer anywhere visible in Bangkok. They were all on one day suddenly ordered off the road, around a year ago.

I have a soft heart for the crazy suit styles of the 'Paul Smith' brand. But I am already too painfully cool to actually wear a brand name good (as well as too aware of absurd prices on the wallet).

So I ask this: what is out there which mimicks the wacky suit styles of Paul Smith but not the 60,000 baht price tags?

I am not looking for some illegal copies, I just want another company with similar inspiration.

Strange thing about the Paul Smith suits' wacky fashion sense that you can find at their Emporium and Siam Paragon branches is that it is not discoverable on the internet. All the images on Google are the regular, conservative stuff.

So if you're not familiar then take a look in one of their shops, and come back to me.

A website describes the suits thus:"Paul Smith himself has coined the phrase “classic with a twist” to describe his own designs which he bases on traditional British men's clothing that he himself likes to wear. His “classic twist” style is reflected in the combination of the slim style suit that he has carved his own niche in and a floral shirt or a brightly coloured or kitsch printed tie. Bringing old-style tailoring up to date with a sense of British Rock ‘n’ Roll, the end result often hints toward a public school boy turned bad."-- "A suit that fits" blogspot

I want to mix the look with a tweed finish and a bow tie that I think looks good on Professor Jones.

Okay, I am all ears. :jap:

I know I could go a 'tailor' in Bangkok, but their reputation proceeds them. Hue city in Vietnam, which is crushed fall of suit shops is another option. They offered a Austin Powers suit there for 10 dollars. Smae quality as a Bangkok 'tailor'.

This works both ways.

It has often fascinated me why I get hit on by Western girls much better looking than I would get in the UK, and why it happens more often. This also is true when I lived in Japan and China.

--I think one is the supply-demand factor. There are not many Western men, and despite this forum's members proving there are exceptions, most Western women will not even consider an Asian man (*). The supply for the men is extremely favourable-- they simply stretch their arms out and grab something.

--I also think the socio-normative rules allow it. The extremely complex Western social processes that must be in place before a girl may hit on a guy simply don't come into play here. They, as outsiders, are not of course obliged to follow the Thai socio-normative regime. And becuae of a sense of alientaion towards Thailand that will be more extreme than the men, they will also not wish to re-constitute themselves as part of this new regime.

--I sense an emotional factor: women are more extreme in all the emotions than men, apart from aggression. So if they are not in a social community then they will more actively seek friendships to ward off loneliness and depression.

So, I am making a claim on how human's think, I am gendering the claim, I am adding a social positioning, and I am noting a ruthless evolutionary demand. It would be hopeless to try to back these up on a blog in a visa forum, but I think the academic literature would side with me on my desire to find insight.

I also know the intensely strong narratives in popular culture would wish to demonise me. The narrative of the strong, assertive woman in Cosmopolitan magazine would take great offense at my position on emotions. The narrative on socializing processes, runs counters to the popular narrative of striving success by the modern Western woman. Finally, the claim on supply-demand runs counter to popular notions of wholesome romance. If you do react to any of my claims with any of these narrative myths then I would ask you to reflect on the extent to wish you have really thought about these issues.

(*) there is an astonishing research of a popular dating website that was allowed access to the over 1 million users database. It did not ask women what they sought, but actually observed what they did seek. The two did not tally. Annoyingly I cannot now find it. You can choose to speculate on the reasons why women will not search for Asian men-- perhaps no role models to imagine it, perhaps blind racism, perhaps they think they get a better deal with a Western-orientated new metrosexual guy. It doesn't matter.

Gastro-Bismal (suspension and tablets)

Besmal (tablets)

bioth are local brands of bismuth subsalicylate

Thanks Sheryl. You are the best.

In most countries I would just use Bismuth Subsalicylate, which is most famously branded as Pepto-Bismol(*). But it does not seem to be available here. If I ask for anti-nausea medicine I usually get given Motillium which has a known anti-nausea effect but is frankly useless.

The Bismuth Subsalicylate works within 10 minutes and completely relieves the problem of mild food poisoning.

Does it exist in Thailand under some alternative brand name? (e.g. one similar is Kaopectate)

So to make this crystal clear, I am talking about very mild nausea, that just very slightly annoys, makes it a bit tiresome to eat and to get on with daily life. If left untreated goes within a day or two.

(*) there is a product by the same company with a very similar name with the familiar pink colour but it is not Pepto-Bismol

Thanks in advance.

Gaccha, you are saying the British were "nationally blind" to defend the Falklands. Regardless of the proximity of an island to other nations, you don't just give in to aggression from the close neighbour. It's a little bit more complicated than that.

I'm quite happy for the Union Jack to be used to represent England or Britain, it's just some Scots, Welsh and N.Irish who seem to resent it so much even when all are so closely linked in ways of life, genes and geography.

Yes, it is much more complicated than an issue of geographical proximity.

By saying "British" is to let oneself be governed by a prevailing geopolitical mode of representation and to engage in the continuation of a complex practice. The dominant statist discourse is a mode of reality-making.

The object and general grammar (i.e. "Britain", "invasion") allows a licence to forget the history of struggles in which entities ("Britain", "Argentinia") have come to be domesticated within modern international space. This forgetting is scripted or institutionalised.

The mentality of nationalism is a mentality of accepting the rusting discourse that is the privileging of nation-states.

So, you say "you don't just give in to aggression from the close neighbour. It's a little bit more complicated than that." Note how you use the domesticated grammar of everyday life-- the "close neighbour". it takes away the extraorindary violence, it ignores and places on the backwater the real issues-- these had nothing to do with "aggression". it is a cryptic mode of legitimation. You must question the rhetorics and narrative structures used to describe what happened.

When "Argentinia" moved into the smal islands close to the Falklands "Britain" did nothing. When they moved into the Falklands, Thatcher still intended to allow it to be given over to "argentinia" it was only when she was pushed into war by a long series of parliamentary speeches they used the same rhetoric of naked aggression that you enjoy that it led to the violence of 1982.

The reason that Britain did not hand Flaklands to Argentinia was because of wealthy absentee landlords didn't want it to.

Don't become a consumer of representational practices. Once you realise what you fed on is not authoritative description but just a rhetorical practice then you can better understand my position. Stop thinking of the World in terms of nation-states, and start to ask about the necessity of violence over such petty imagined communities.

Until about the time of Euro 96 it was normal fo England fans to display union flags instead of St George flags. Not surprising if a lot of people don't get it or see the point of this English nationalist nonsense.

whats the harm in being nationalistic and taking some pride in where you come from?

after all arent the other members of the union equally if not more so. some, but maybe not all would be the first to correct anyone who said that they were british. and go as far as to support anyone or team that is playing against against one of their arch enemies, when it comes to some sporting events.

take for example andy murray, wearing an argentina football shirt when england were about to play them in a major competition. what a complete and utter runt of a human being! not only for the fact that he knew it would wind people up because of the history involving the two sides in world cup football. but more importantly for the fact that he didnt take the time to use his brain and think about the about the falklands conflict. were regiments from all over the british isles fought side by side and lost their lives in defeating the argentinian forces.

You answer your own question...

"whats the harm in being nationalistic and taking some pride in where you come from?"

"wind people up"

"think about the about the falklands conflict"

There are not many things that people are prepared to die for, but blind nationalism is one of them.

nice one, cheers!

source? or did you make it yourself?

Made it myself. Took it from a newspaper article in the Thai Post yesterday, then spent hours sticking it together.

I just find learning off a computer screen annoying, and using a paper dictionary time wasteful, so I end up doing this.

I've done a few of these now (some with audio), which with enormous amount of effort you could find under my username. But I'll pretty soon probably stick them all together.

I see so many people saying "I have completed [fill in most advanced Thai learning book available] now what should I read?". Then they make the terrible supposition that they should progress to children's books since these must be basic enough for them. This is a terrible mistake. Children's books are incredibly difficult ('The troll skull of the sacred heart of emerald castle' etc...). Newspaper articles are easier, and more interesting to the adult learner. The vocab in newspapers will readily transmit into everyday life (e.g. "fomer Prime Minister" cf. "emerald skull').

Glad you like it.

I noticed a few errors but since it's over 30 pages long that is not too surprising. Anyone who completes it will actually feel an improvement in their ability level.

No problems.

.doc was already allowed. I have now added .docx

Cheers

Thanks George.

I've mucked arund with PDF until it stopped corrupting the document so I've used a PDF after all... but thanks in advance for next time.

Article by Thai Post, one of the top Thai newspapers ().

Here is a package that does all the prep. work for you:

1. Thai language- in 2 fonts

2. transliteration

3. breakdown of every single word #

4. translation of every single word #

5. awful google translation included to help you out

Thai language newspaper language practice sex swap article v4 doc.pdf

This is ideal for intermediate learners. Probably has around 50 new words.

This is what language learning is about. No short cuts in the actual learning/thinking process. But your mind will love the grammar analysis and exhilaration of getting the job done. And I've done the four hours it took me that you'd otherwise waste looking up words.

Method of study

Just go one paragraph at a time.

Read it once and then look up new words.

Then re-read each sentence until you can understand by memory without checking words.

Then when you've done a paragraph go thorugh the paragraph again.

Do for next paragrpah and so on.

After you've gone through the article like this about 3 times you will have picked up all the words.

Go back the next day and do it gain (you'll be stunned how many of the words you remember in context but would not know if you read elsewhere).

Do it again in 3 days and then again on 7 days and that just about do it. Keep the paper around for 3 months and check you have all the words still in your head.

Congratulations. You've just used a method of study that doesn't get boring, improves your reading, develops your grammar, and helps you memorise around 50 new words.

Now do the same and put it up on the Thai language forum board.

You will definitely know how to read 'sex reassignment surgery' by the end of the article. It must be mentioned about 30 times.

Key (#)

[g]= grammar (need to check in detail if not know)

[*]=mentioned before in the reader

Using

I strongly recommend downloading 'foxit reader' for reading the PDF file. Much quicker and nicer to use than the lumpy Adobe reader.

[specious photo of miss beauty girl as I am aware this sort of topic gets a lot of prurient interest from irregular visitors to the Thai Language Forum.]

Is it .doc or .docx ?

Ah, it's a docx

I take it that docx can't be handled..? I wanted to use it as I figured it would help it to be clean of metadata.

I am trying to uplaod a Word document for the Language Forum but I am told that "Error You aren't permitted to upload this kind of file".

Is this an error or is there a policy to not allow Word document uploads? (the uploading is working fro other files, e.g. JPEG)

I would indeed preder to upload as a PDF but when I ahve converted to a PDF many parts of the Thai language font sections dissolve into a mess.

My document is around 30 pages long and will be of great use to the dedicated Thai language learners.

Please assist.

Been reading that Martin Tyler is signed up with ESPN to do commentary for World Cup games for them.

Yet when I listened to ESPN radio last night (while watching Thai TV3), it was 2 other commentators - 1 American, the other Irish I think.

Anyone any idea if/when/how we can listen to the commentary by the no.1 footy commentator legend himself - Martin Tyler?

I was thinking the same thing. Except I was wondering how they found the only Irishman who appears to have not watched a game of tootball before.

I am sure the elite Englishman commentary will be TV only (i.e. not the ESPN radio on the internet). The intention is to create a sense of authenticity for the American watchers of the World Cup-- they associate soccer with English people. Just as American Football Handball Games are shown with american commentary in the UK.

David

I used your translations as an extremely handy learning tool--reading through the sentences and comparing my translation.

If in the future you translate 4 or 5 sentences of a news report please could you stick it on the language forum. It is very useful for someone at my level that need a quick dirty check for the whole meaning of the sentences.

Thank you in advance.

well, there is ESPN radio on the internet,

...but though technically English they appear to know little of soccer, and there is a one minute delay of the audio...

The BBC have just blocked their transmission, 71 minutes into the game... aaaaahhhh!

An unexpected problem:

BBC Radio 5 are allowing audio coverage in Thailand (I am listening to the first match now) but it is 3 seconds faster than the picture on the telly...

what-to-do....