StreetCowboy

Thanks all for your contributions to my thread, I've been reading all along. As you may know Thai isn't good at English and I'm one of them so I think I'd better read you guys post. I'm not sure I understand all of them

By the way I like the idea of burning down Pattaya including all the sex tourists

Good to see you paricipate here.

Personally I very much dislike Pattaya, for many reasons.

Question for you, have you been there?

I don't like Newark New Jersey either. I just don't go there and don't usually (until right now) broadcast that personal feeling to the world. It works for me. No need to make a religion over bashing the place and the people that like it, nor to advocate mass murder of its inhabitants. This epidemic of Pattaya Derangement Syndrome^TM (PDS) is really getting serious.

Why do people not like Pattaya?

My family and I have been there a few times, and it seems like a nice enough place for a quick getaway. The beach is pretty grubby, I suppose, but there are some slightly nicer parts, I believe. And it is very convenient. Obviously, not as nice as Whitby, and the beach is not as attractive as Hartelpool, but the weather's better. Besides, Whitby and Hartlepool are not so convenient for a weekend away...

Are there any more attractive places closer in to Bangkok? Some of the old victorian places just beyond the suburbs looked attractive on the way through, but I didn't have time to do the research to find out detailed information? I suppose the trouble is that people are just obsessed with sex and moaning - whinging, sorry, to avoid ambiguity - and focus on that which titillates them, while pretending to disapprove. Such people are not really interested in what Thailand has to offer - only in the opportunity to feel holier than thou and look down on people who enjoy more earthly pleasures.

SC

By the way, I didn't like Newark either, and I think it does have a bad reputation; although, I didn't see enough to justify its reputation; I just thought it was dull, boring; but I was just passing through in any case. Thanks to its reputation, I had no inclination to stop.

Why Does Thailand Have Such A Bad Reputation ?

when it comes to women

I think the OP has dropped a genuine question on the Thaivisa table, being a Thai him/herself.

But...the topic is completely derailing with discussions about Israel, Dubai, China, Alaska, Oman and other countries; even discussion about Christians and Jews are passing the lines.

I think we should pay a little more respect to the newcomer OP and get back on topic and discuss the OP's question - above- and -below- since I'm sure he's not in the least interested about the reputation of Israel, China and Dubai, to name a few.

"Why Does Thailand Have Such A Bad Reputation ?"

"When it comes to women"

LaoPo

I suppose the point is that it does not have a bad reputation.

It has a good reputation as a sex tourism destination, and other places have a similar reputation for being unable to go out for a quiet drink without being mobbed by hookers - though again, in every case, there are places to go where that does not happen - in my humble and limited experience.

It also has a good reputation as a place for families, cultural tourists, beach-lovers, hikers - and the point was that many more tourists cme here than many other countries.

If Thailand did have a bad reputation, it would not be thanks to the sex industry, but thanks to the many other hazards and inconveniences that could affect tourists during their stay here.

SC

Because farangs will email, call and tell (there gullible friends) what there "version" of a vacation in thailand was, and then the word of mouth spreads and there you have it ... Everyone thinks thailand is a pool of Thai hookers ... Just like everyone thinks Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work ...

So are you saying that people believe Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work because of the emails that we receive from our friends that have been there?

Or are you saying that people believe that there are hookers standing three deep on the side of Sukhumvit Road because I made that up based on stereotypes, and my friends that believed that were gullible?

SC

So SC, are you suggesting that all Thai women are hookers?

I'm speculating that the ladies lined three deep on Sukhumvit Road flashing smiles at the passers-by and saying "I go with you..." might be. I've never asked, to make sure. I'm speculating that the ladies in the coffee shop, in the office, in Robinson's etc. are not, but again, I've never asked.

Personally, I think SSS' point was complete nonsense, and inconsistent. He seemed to be implying that people overseas believe your premise because we tell them so, based on our experience, and we also believe that Alaskans live in igloos, because that is a stereotype. I don't see any linkage or correlation in those two points.

Personally, I very much doubt that Alaskans live in igloos, though I have never been there, nor do I recall any news from any of my friends on that - other than that Anchorage is rank with hookers as an oil town and transit spot for international air freight - but again, that is not say that all ladies in Alaska are hookers, only that the places that my acquaintances visit - thirsty transit air crew, in this case, tend to drink in the same places as those ladies. Anyway, Anchorage is probably not typical of towns in Alaska, and probably has more in common with Dubai than its near neighbours.

SC

WAKE UP sunshine, this is what sells papers. Just about anywhere you go in the world, when you wake up and read the papers you will see similar headlines, some worse, some not as bad.

Good news doesnt sell newspapers.

I wouldnt get too hung up on it.

So what is all that good news in Thailand that you feel balances it out. Be specific.

We've moved into a new apartment.

The kids are back at school.

The water drained away from the soi in a matter of hours.

Its turned out nice again.

The airport railway will be opening soon.

How much good news do you want? Its a sad day when you have to go trawling the newspapers looking for good news

SC

Because farangs will email, call and tell (there gullible friends) what there "version" of a vacation in thailand was, and then the word of mouth spreads and there you have it ... Everyone thinks thailand is a pool of Thai hookers ... Just like everyone thinks Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work ...

So are you saying that people believe Alaskans live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work because of the emails that we receive from our friends that have been there?

Or are you saying that people believe that there are hookers standing three deep on the side of Sukhumvit Road because I made that up based on stereotypes, and my friends that believed that were gullible?

SC

two of us were wearing suits

Where was your suit tailored, Savile Row London or Patels in Pattaya?

He got it for his birthday

SC

chinese thai have thicker pubic hair, the latter have finer and lesser hair

At last ! some helpful and constructive advice.

Thank you

SC

I concur. The Russian ladies are especially well represented. In Oman, I saw quite a few Chinese prostitutes hanging around the bars.

I think we are drifting away from the OP's worries about Thailand's reputation BECAUSE of prostitution and the fact that normal women are often considered to be prostitutes.

Dubai and Oman, as well as the other countries, mentioned, do not have a bad name abroad for being a holiday destination for sex tourists. Do they ?

LaoPo

Sex tourists don't go where it costs ten times as much as Thailand (as it is in Dubai). So maybe the reputation of Thailand will improve if they raise their prices.

Dubai's a pretty good destination for sex tourism, and I can recommend it. Accomodation is expensive, though, and you need to avoid the "family" hotels.

Its not just about the money. (I'm goig th right way for a smacked bottom - apologies to the mods, I'll leave it there...).

I would be very surprised if Oman even came close... if the money runs out when you're in Dubai, you could move a few kilometres up the road to Ajman...though I've never been there...ha ha - AjMan, the Bangkok of the West - only with mosques instead of temples... They are actually really quite different, and I really wouldn't recommend a holiday in Ajman except if you'd run out of money in Dubai.

Anyway, I've never really been one for holidays.

SC

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So anyway, I think a brief summary of findings to date is in order:

1. Thailand does not have a bad reputation, and it doesn't put tourists off.

2. To a large extent, the reputation that it has does not deter visitors, despite the country having some faults.

3. To a large extent, its perceived bad reputation amongst prudes is based on prurient and salacious humour, combined with a desire to divert attention from the vice, eniquity and inequity within our own countries.

4. In fact, Thailand is no worse than many other countries in that respect.

Now that the topic is complete, we can concentrate on the slagfest - oh, that takes me back to my weekends in Newcastle!

SC

In my experience Thailand has a very bad reputation. Whenever I mention it I get the usual comments about young girls and dirty old men (which apparently I am). Of course these comments come from people that have never been to Thailand but this doesn't alter the fact that whenever I mention Thailand it gets negative comments.

I think that's just the company you keep - only interested in prurient and salacious rumour and gossip. I get the same when I talk about Newcastle. And as for Middlesbrough - woah, steady there - more risky than risque...

I've never known anyone that has spoken of it (Thailand) in anything but the most glowing terms.

My dear old mother, who visited Thailand several times before I came here, never once mentioned that sort of nonsense. In fact, she was really quite positive - although she did mention that her aunt struggled with the plumbing. She was a trifle aged, even then, though (the aunt; my dear old mother was substantially less aged at the time).

Anyway, in the interests of countering the poor image that countries may have, and encouraging tourism, does anyone fancy a trip to Iran to watch Thailand in Division Two of the HSBC Five Nations rugby tournament, if indeed it is being played in Iran next year? The visa requirements are a bit convoluted, I'm afraid, unless its being played in Kish (which seems a bit unlikely)...

SC

EDIT: Paragraph break moved and (Thailand) added in brackets to avoid misleading ambiguity

The Hollywood script writers will stop writing the Thailand sex jokes when they no longer get big laughs. In other words, not in our lifetimes.

But the laughs are all canned. They only put the laugh in so that the rest of us can tell where the joke is, and what is supposed to be funny.

On the hollowwood comedies that i see, anyway. Its like the 'boing' on Thai shows.

So anyway, I think a brief summary of findings to date is in order:

1. Thailand does not have a bad reputation, and it doesn't put tourists off.

2. To a large extent, the reputation that it has does not deter visitors, despite the country having some faults.

3. To a large extent, its perceived bad reputation amongst prudes is based on prurient and salacious humour, combined with a desire to divert attention from the vice, eniquity and inequity within our own countries.

4. In fact, Thailand is no worse than many other countries in that respect.

Now that the topic is complete, we can concentrate on the slagfest - oh, that takes me back to my weekends in Newcastle!

SC

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Not a subject, passing jokes. There are MANY! Typical example, a passing reference (for a cheap laugh) about a characters uncle in Thailand who married a 12 year old boy. It is ALWAYS Thailand. It's pop culture, these jokes are very common in Hollywood comedies.

Must just be the shows you watch. I am lucky to have led a sheltered life.

Anyway, you appear to have hit the nail on the head. In order to address the OP's issue, we should be discouraging people from watching Hollywood Comedies or better still, banning them as libellous, or alternatively developing more appropriate lines for them - and doing everyone a favour.

What is the correct term for grafting a sense of humour on to someone? And could it be done to an entire nation?

We'll have the eugenics crusaders on our backs now...

No thanks JT, I'm not that way inclined.

SC

Let's not delude ourselves, Thailand DOES have a bad reputation. That's not something that can be changed overnight. Thais can change things by first dealing with corruption. It is one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, and polls have said most Thais just accept that. That basically means it is hopeless. So the answer isn't on an expat board, now is it?

Bad reputation amongst who? The echo chamber of western expats who vent at each other daily? That's not the mainstream.

Thailand's mainstream reputation is mostly a safe fun holiday destination with beach resorts, sun, and women for single men.

A country with a bad reputation? Look at Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or even Israel. Now that's a real bad international reputation.

He is the prototype of a grumpy old expat. Lost the ability to enjoy his life and just want share his misery. Cries fascism if the t-shirt seller hasn't a tee for his obese body. And that bad reputation myth is just shared between him and other old grumpy foreign men. Someone should send them home for their own sake.

That's a really good effort at a flame, but sadly, you'll need to learn a good deal more about your target. I imagine your vitriol will wash away like water off a duck's back. I'm very impressed with your ability to be rude and obnoxious in any thread, and deeply offensive, switching viewpoints with a magnanimity that displays a great breadth of mind and catholic (not meant religously) outlook. Actually, I can see some consistency in your outlook, but I'm not going to go there - as I have said earlier in this thread...

Anyway, carry on your baiting - you appear to be a master at it

SC

I can think of very few people who have been to any of the countries that you listed for reasons other than work or family.

China tourism --

China is the world's fourth largest country for inbound tourism. The number of overseas tourists was 55 million in 2007.

wiki

Israel tourism --

Tourism in Israel is one of the country's major sources of income, with 2.7 million tourists in 2009.[1] Israel offers a plethora of historical and religious sites, beach resorts, archaeological tourism, heritage tourism and ecotourism. Israel has the highest number of museums per capita in the world.[2] The most popular paid site is Masada.[3] The largest groups of tourists visit from the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, France, and Germany.[4]

According to Tourism Ministry figures, 280,000 people visited Israel in July 2010, marking an all-time record for the month.[5]

wiki

You're absolutely right - I should have added in religion, as well as family or work. Saudi Arabia benefits greatly from religous tourism. And you are right, China was, in my opinion, incorrectly on that list, since I have myself been there as a tourist, and I have acquaintances that have gone there on shagging-trips, I believe. Of course, if we subscribe to the People's Republic's classification of China, it is a great place to visit - the gambling and vice dens of Macau, the outrageous extravegance and libertarian debauchery of Hong Kong, the culture and open friendliess, as well as the scenery, in the Republic - although to be sure, I still wouldn't go there (the Republic) but to visit friends.

And similarly Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Maybe part of the poor reputation relates to a perceived lack of separation between church and state? And also fractious hypersensitivity and xenophobia.

SC

Let's not delude ourselves, Thailand DOES have a bad reputation. That's not something that can be changed overnight. Thais can change things by first dealing with corruption. It is one of the most corrupt countries on the planet, and polls have said most Thais just accept that. That basically means it is hopeless. So the answer isn't on an expat board, now is it?

Bad reputation amongst who? The echo chamber of western expats who vent at each other daily? That's not the mainstream.

Thailand's mainstream reputation is mostly a safe fun holiday destination with beach resorts, sun, and women for single men.

A country with a bad reputation? Look at Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or even Israel. Now that's a real bad international reputation.

I wanted to commend your post but sadly the crusader got there first.

He's forever trying to divert threads into his crusade. Anyway, having never been to Saudi Arabia, Iran or Israel, it is quite clear that their reputation is sufficient to keep tourists away. I have been to Thailand, and do not believe it has a bad reputation. I can think of very few people who have been to any of the countries that you listed for reasons other than work or family. On the other hand, countless people choose to come to Thailand,. Again and Again and Again. And many people come here for a first time. Therefore, no bad reputation.

The OP focussed on the ladies. I have met very many pleasant thai ladies of all walks of life, and to stereotype them as hookers, or even to suggest that they have a reputation as such, is simply to promulgate that lie. Therefore, perhaps if people would stop saying two things:

"All thai ladies are hookers" and

"Everyone thinks that all thai ladies are hookers"

then perhaps fewer people would think it.

While I may dislike English lager louts, I don't go around stereotyping all English as such, nor saying 'everyone believes the English are all alcoholic thugs'; it is a cruel slur on the respectable English.

SC

I thought women in Thailand had a very positive image. I don''t know any other country where the ladies are such a tourist attraction in their own right.

I thought it was the police, and the riots, and the Tourist Authority of Thailand, and the cheats and fraudsters that people complain about who gave Thailand a bad reputation.

I certainly don't know anyone that comes here because of them...

SC

The vast majority of Thais do not identify with EITHER the red shirts OR the yellow shirts.

The vast majority of Thais identify with apathy towards politics.

Maybe they're a bit red, a bit yellow....

A nation of orangemen, God forbid...

Oh I do like to air my bigotries - it keeps them fresh

SC

Thai Chinese are natives too. I think you mean aboriginal Thais v Thais of Chinese descent.

I met a half-thai, half-chinese lady once, and she was quite differentiable from a Thai-Chinese.

I'm glad its racial profiling season again.

Wishing you a long and acrimonious thread,

SC

Thanks everyone for your advice and input. At the moment it is really not a case of trying to "put things right so I can stay", but I don't want to move on with such bad feeling towards me. It's all very well trying to ignore things but I've still got 4 weeks left here and I really don't want those 4 weeks to be miserable.

I know some people have commented how can he come in and change people's perceptions after only been at the school a short time (since beginning of June). What I will say is he's very charming, speaks Thai and has been in Thailand 2 1/2 years so knows how things work and is good at brown nosing. I'm very reserved and I'm not very good at putting a "face" on things or charming people. This situation has made me go into my shell more, whereas he's on a charm offensive around school.

Mike - It maybe the case that they did want me out but never had a reason before. This happened to a friend at another school. The first semester went great and then in the second semester they went into full nit picking mode to get him out. I would say that the school do seem to want farang men over women, so I always knew that would count against me. However, I always felt that it has always been the assumption with the other teachers that I would be staying and they've been very concerned about trying to keep the young farang.

As for my previous post about wanting to date the teacher, that never happened but we get on well. He's actually one of the only teachers who is still friendly to me and wants to come out with me (and the other nice farang) socially. I actually met someone else in the village (no connections to school and surprisingly not married and no gf) but he's away at the moment.

As for the baseless rumours... I know exactly why he's started them and it is because of an inadequacy. He is not a Native English speaker, whereas the other guy and I are. Therefore his position has always been very tenuous (the school were desperate at the time). He's on a good salary and has managed to pester the school to pay more and for extra things (like getting his visa paid directly by the school which wasn't in his contract).

Sarahsbloke - I'll try that tact, but the problem is that The most annoying thing is that I don't think the school has ever checked his paperwork (the other guy and I are hired through an agency, the school hired him directly) or got a reference (he told me he's been through quite a lot of jobs in the past 2 years). The other guy is the "goldenboy" (very young, very handsome) so is untouchable and is maybe leaving at the endof the semester anyway. If he gets me out, then he can take my position of being the longest serving farang and therefore has more control over how long he stays there.

Bina... great advice as always. I had the golden opportunity to gossip about him, but didn't feel that I could at the time because I'm not very good at playing games. It now feels as if it has gone on for too long that if I do start "fighting back", it will only serve to make me look even worse. I fear it will be a case of having to learn from this experience and not let it happen to me again.

I love the small community and I've got used to the gossip about things that I do and have taken an "I don't care" attitude. However, eventually you find out what the gossip is, the problem with this is I have no idea what has actually been said. There are other aspects to the small community, which I really appreciate and I would never have had that in a larger town.

Street Cowboy - I absolutely love the school. I was the first farang to teach here and therefore felt very accepted by the school, the students and the whole community. I still have a lot of students who graduated last semester still in touch with me and they come and visit if they are back in town. So to now be "pushed" out at school feels like a real rejection.

I love the small community and I've been very very happy here. I have good friends out of school and the thought of having to move and start all over again (moving, settling in, making friends) is overwhelming me.

Anyway, thanks again for all your input.

I hope things work out for the best, and let's hope that in a few months you can look back and laugh about it.

I don't think there's any point in trying to out-brown-nose or out-bitch, or out-gossip anyone, because that's what they're good at, whereas you wouldn't want to walk around with a nose smelling like that.

You could just try laying your cards on the table and explaining exactly how you feel; I very much doubt it would do any good, but it might be a far more satisfying thing to do than any machiavellian skullduggery

SC

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.....

These threads can be interesting because, I guess, many want to know what The Joneses are spending. But I wonder (without meaning any disrespect to the OP) how reliable the information is. Besides, such threads invariably degenerate into pissing contests on both sides: those who live on 10k/month and are proud of it as it bolsters their 'nativeness' bona fide and those who spend various multiples of that and are disdainful of others that live on less.

Since Time is the currency of life, perhaps our real cost of living should be measured as how much time we spend NOT doing the things we enjoy.

I find it easier to maximise the time I spend enjoying the things that I do...I find if I maximise the time I spend doing the things that I enjoy, I don't enjoy them.

Anyway, fun is like work - its better to get it finished as quick as possible, so you can move on to something more important....

Sorry - I don't have much time to plan out this email, on a fairly important topic. My apologies, but at least its bumped back to the top of the pile for our more philosophical members to address

SC

No coaching suggestions but I did stare at the screen for ten minutes incredulous that True could broadcast this live with Thai commentary while not managing to show one other bit of rugby for the last 5 years!

Rugby? What competition? Asian Games Sevens?

They'll both be in Division Two this year for the HSBC Five Nations, I believe - my prediction is that will be held in Iran, so unlikely to gather much travelling support...

I don't know if there is a stadium on Kish - no need for a visa -

SC

SC

Regardless, what I stated still applies, learning is an individualized process. What suits you, may not suit others. I also do not agree that Mandarin Chinese has phonemes that are the same in spoken English. For example the word for fish.... match that phonetic structure to English and I would be very surprised, then the word, for "to change or to become" = BYAN again another phonetic structure or "blend" that for the life of me would not match any English phonetic blend. I "picked up" Chinese too, but I certainly do not read Chinese. (and yes I learned Chinese in my adult years)

Sorry if I seem crass, I have a low tolerance for self proclaimed experts. It is great that you "picked up" several languages. Even so, you are not Noam Chompsky or B.F. Skinner.

I never once said I was an expert on this, I was just posting what I have experienced. It was you who felt the need to post all of your qualifications and are TELLING people what is right and wrong on this subject but I still do not agree with you. If what you are are saying is true then why are there such a low number of Thais speaking fluent or even proficient English, or expats speaking Thai? Of course everyone learns languages differently and education and effort play a bit part, but there is a level of difficulty of a language based on the languages you already know. Some languages are much easier to learn based on your native tongue which is why anyone speaking fluent English could learn French much easier than learning a non-latin based language.

My point is that Thai and English do not transfer very easily. The biggest reason for me is because the Thai alphabet contains a lot of sounds and tones we do not use in English. For example you cannot reproduce a lot of the Thai 32 vowels with our alphabet. This is why when Thai is transliterated into English it can be spelt a number of different ways because there are no letters or sounds in English that completely represents the Thai letter/sound.

It's a fact that children learn languages far easier than adults, and I guess this is because they are not translating from their native tongue into another system, they are learning it in the same way you and I learned English so your examples still do not apply here.

And you may not read Chinese but I bet you read pinyin and used it to learn with. This is not possible in Thai which is why most learners try to learn Thai script to make it much easier.

Also, tell me why Indonesians, Malays and Filipinas can speak English much more proficiently than Thais or Chinese? Do you think it's because they have a different language base and also that they use a roman alphabet which makes learning English much easier for them?

I can't comment on Indonesians, but Malays and Filippinos are universally educated with English as a second language and use it amongst themselves as a lingua franca (that always makes me laugh) because they are blessed by several completely diverse languages, or many hundreds of quite diverse dialects. Thais are fortunate in having a quite distinct national language, while the Chinese imposed Putonghua as their national dialect and lingua franca. You'll also find that Malaysia and Philippines are much more internationally outward-looking than and less parochial than Thailand or China.

A lot of us like alphabetic representation of words, which is why we use pinyin. We could use the Republic's phonetic alphabet, but since no-one actually uses it in practice, its a bit of a waste of time. However, if you are learning a language which is already alphabetic, like Thai, or Greek, or Khmer, or Sanskrit, or Russian, or whatever, then it would be churlish to insist on romanising everything. Bearing in mind that pinyin does not represent the same vowel or consonant sounds that the same letters represent in English. Perhaps it would make sense to develop a 'pinyin' for Thai - a consistent romanisation that used roman letters to represent the Thai sounds

I don't want to bicker for the sake of bickering, but there are very many Thais that speak good English, and very many ex-pats that speak Thai - I can't comment on its adequacy - I haven't noticed a particular penchant for foreigners to speak Malay despite its simplicity and use of the roman alphabet. Of course, in Thailand there is little need for foreigners to learn Thai, as English is so widely spoken to an adequate level.

SC

Run forest,run.

Is a job out in the sticks with petty people who are so easily swayed by the gossip of a total stranger that important to you?

Maybe its the best job she's got...

We none of us like the upheaval of changing jobs and moving to a new place and shifting the piano and putting the camels into new stables and finding a new mistress and all the other upheaval that a move entails.

Maybe there's other things she likes about the job? Some people like living in the boondocks (there's a couple of threads on the topic).

Anyway, my sympathies are with the OP. I don't have the sensitivity to offer any constructive advice other than to be prepared to move on at short notice if anyone else actually starts taking gossip seriously.

Normally, for my part, I only resort to starting baseless rumours to denigrate people if I am hopelessly out of my depth and need to divert attention from my own inadequacies.

SC

I WONDERED what was wrong with their eyes. Thanks for clarifying it. It's larger than normal contact lenses for effect only. Messing around with perfectly adequate eyes seems silly to me.

Like shaving off perfectly good hair...

Numbers added for cross-referencing:

Mommy, my guess is you are a raging alchy. Don't worry.....you have plenty of company on this board.

Probably:D.

Raging? well most of the time I'm quite jolly on the stuff.

(2) Alchy?, yes I think so and in all honesty I don't want to change, just moderate.

(1) The rage mostly arises watching a certain bunch of overpaid tosspxts masquerade as a football team, and I hope this was behind SC's reference to expectations.

(3) Some of the exploits on this board, make me feel green at the gills even when I haven't been drinking. All I can say is the human body can take an awful lot of punishment.

I do have a certain respect for these people though.

1) Correct. They're only human. I think what really makes you angry is the amount they get paid, not their mediocrity - and maybe that's just jealousy... A lot of people feel that way about me, too...

2) If you are an alcoholic, then it doesn't really matter what you want... the best you can hope for is to be able to decide when you're going to lose control... (In my opinion)

3) It goes to show that things can always get worse - reminds me of when I broke all my front teeth...

SC

I meant to say you will encounter barely-suppressed or overt hostility.

I wish I was as sensitive to other people's feelings as you are; I've never noticed that.

But then, I was happy to drink in the Bongo Club in Middlesbrough...

SC