JimGant

22 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Many won't file, due to ignorance and/or disbelief that this will be enforced.

 

When they are called into TRD, they are going to be at the mercy of Somchai, and that will not end well.

Why would they be called into TRD? Is TRD going to try and identify farangs living here over 180 days per year? And if identified, that their mediocre annual remittances indicate assessable income --- rather than, in most cases, nonassessable gov't pensions, or social security (and if Canadian, private pensions)? Come on. Even TRD can do cost/benefit analyses.

22 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If Thailand imposes a worldwide income tax, Farangs will depart in droves.

Why? As an upper middle class Yank, whose only capital gains are within my IRA's (and thus taxable as ordinary income) -- my total income tax paid between Thailand and the US won't change one iota. Yes, I'll now have to file a Thai tax return, and pay taxes on that income designated by the DTA. But my US tax return will have a one-for-one reduction in taxation via the tax credits from my Thai taxation. Thus, my total tax bill between the two countries will be the same as before Thailand goes to worldwide taxation.

I mentioned capital gains, because that is the on spot where Yanks can be hurt, since Thailand's taxes on such will exceed by a lot US taxes on long term cap gains. So, yeah, maybe some Yanks, living off cap gains, will feel the pain. Just wonder how many of those types are here in Thailand.....

22 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Please explain why TRD does not monitor these remittances for tax liability.

You think TRD has the resources to parse all remittances into Thailand to determine assessable income?

23 hours ago, John Drake said:

And THEN when you move some of that money to Thailand that Thailand has already taxed you on, will they also tax the remittance?

The taxation of remittances goes away if worldwide taxation is implemented.

On 9/8/2024 at 12:24 PM, Taboo2 said:

If your 401 is taxed, which most are, it is exempt.

DTA gives Thailand primary taxation rights on your 401k. So, it's not exempt. US has to absorb a tax credit, meaning, you need to know what your Thai tax would be on this 401k before you file your US tax return, so you can deduct the credit (figure the Thai tax out on the back of an envelope, if you haven't already filed; US does not require any proof of this credit).

On 9/8/2024 at 11:45 AM, Dogmatix said:

I am know about 401K.  If no specifically exempted in the DTA, it would be taxable in Thailand.

401k, IRAs, like private pensions, are taxable primarily by Thailand. The US has secondary taxation rights, due to the saving clause in all DTAs, that allow the US taxation rights regardless of what the treaty says. Thus, Thailand gets to tax your 401k/IRA/private pension as the primary taxation authority. As such, they get to keep all the taxes collected -- and the US has to absorb a tax credit for these Thai taxes paid. Result: US may not get to keep any taxes, if Thai taxes are greater than those of the US. Or, if Thai taxes are less than US -- Thailand still gets to keep all taxes collected; and the US collects whatever is left after absorbing the credit. You, the US taxpayer, still end up paying the same overall tax bill, when you add the two countries' tax bills.

The below quote from the US-Thai Technical Explanation of the treaty:

Quote

Paragraph 1 provides that private pensions and other similar remuneration paid in
consideration of past employment are generally taxable only in the residence State of the recipient.

The phrase “pensions and other similar remuneration” is intended to encompass
payments made by private retirement plans and arrangements in consideration of past employment. In the United States, the plans encompassed by Paragraph 1 include: qualified plans under section 401(a), individual retirement plans (including individual retirement plans.....

On 9/8/2024 at 10:54 AM, Kerryd said:

Now remember - if your pension is taxed in your home country, they are not supposed to be allowed to tax it again in Thailand regardless of how much you get (dependent on the clauses in your tax treaty - if any).
But it still counts towards your "total income".

Wrong. It's total ASSESSABLE income. If your DTA says your home country pension is not assessable by Thailand, it will, then, just be a missing number on your Thai tax return. If all or most of your worldwide income is not assessable by Thailand per DTA, then you don't even need to file a tax return.

20 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

A non-US citizen Thai spouse can qualify for SS spousal and survivor benefits baseed on their US citizen spouse's record after living in the US for 5 years. The Thai spouse does not have to be a US citizen.

Plus, must be married for those five years to the spouse from whom you're deriving the spousal benefit.

On 9/1/2024 at 9:21 AM, Presnock said:

Especially since in the DTA, the Article 21 just following the SS Article 20, specifically mentions that US govt pensions could be taxed by Thailand if the recipient is a Thai tax-resident and also a Thai native.  This is one question that I am sure will be thought about by the Thai Revenue Department.

Well, if a dual citizen, the US citizenship overrides, at least for SS, tho' not for govt pensions:

Quote

......since social security benefits are taxable exclusively by the source country and so are government pensions. The result will differ only when the payment is made to a citizen and resident of the other Contracting State, who is not also a citizen of the paying State. In such a case, social security benefits continue to be taxable at source while government pensions become taxable only in the residence country.

50 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Have you given any thought about the problems you wife could face once she'll try get get hold of you overseas assets?

Huh?  The wife, a US-Thai, and me have all our US bank accounts and other bank assets as joint, with right of survivorship.  My IRA and life insurance policies all have her as sole beneficiary. Our real estate, also jointly owned, has now all been sold -- but, if not, also wouldn't have been an inheritance problem. So, not sure what you're talking about....

Our biggest problem is trying to equally divide our US financial assets between nieces and nephews in the US, and in Thailand. The US ones are POD (pay on death), thus will receive our financial assets without the need of a Will. However, unable to do a POD for Thai relatives, as no SS or ITIN possible. So, now bringing some of those financial assets over to Thailand, where our Thai Wills will suffice to provide for them.

11 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

The main reason I have USD accts in Thailand is the exchange rates at my Thai banks are much better than sending THB from my Chase Bank acct in the US

Yes, at any point in time.  But, a week, month, year after you establish that dollar account, those dollars may be worth less than what's available in your US bank for conversion to baht. You can't pretend having a USD account somehow mitigates against an FX loss, unless you've somehow placed yourself in an emergency-need-baht situation. Again, as I said, having a contingency account in baht is certainly not inferior to having one in USD.

Or, maybe I'm missing your point. Are you saying you send dollars to your USD account, then, using that as a conduit, make an immediate conversion to baht, thus appreciating the superior conversion rate doing this in-country conversion realizes?

19 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Why USD in a local bank?  It can typically be converted to THB and accessed almost immediately.   USD outside of Thailand in a bank, can take hours to days or more to transfer to Thailand -

You mean, it's a surplus fund, sitting there for a contingency, that would require baht? Why not, then, keep a surplus fund in baht, that can be assessed immediately, not almost immediately. There's no interest advantage. Makes no cents, er, sense.

As far as FX speculation, yeah, maybe a couple of days journey across the ocean by dollars, to catch a low point in the baht, may miss the absolute low point by a day or two. But, that couple day's journey might also realize an even lower point -- as speculation can be tricky.

Anyway, as you say, to each his own. Right now, my wife is briefed on how to go online and transfer my Thai account assets to her account, when I croak. Not sure she could do that with a USD account..... (please, let's not reopen the discussion about a bird in the hand vs probate).

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

My hope, like I think 95% (my figure) of others on the LTR-WP/WGC, is that no Thai tax return is needed, as it is just a bunch of extra possibly needless paper work for everyone.  Needless paperwork for us, and needless paper work for the Thai RD

 Of course.

9 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

"exempted for assessable" income may not be NOT the same as "not-assessable" income.  If it was not-assessable, why not simply state "not assessable". Instead "exempted for assessable" was translated.

You think too much. The Royal Decree allows LTR visa holders to treat otherwise "assessable income" as being the same as "not-assessable income" for taxation liability purposes.

On 8/18/2024 at 8:12 AM, Social Media said:

Meanwhile, official statements from Hamas suggest that the prospects of a ceasefire being reached during the Doha talks  are slim

Well, ok -- I guess Israel is then forced to continue turning Gaza into a parking lot. Sorry, Hamas --  that's what you get when you're stupid enough to start a fight with the world's premiere fighting force.

On 8/10/2024 at 1:44 PM, John Phuket said:

Also, I wonder what the position is if a Thai person takes out a properly documented personal loan from an overseas company - would that loan money be taxed ? Or would it even need to be declared to the Thai Tax Authorities?

Of course not -- it's not income in any form or fashion. As far as listing it on a Thai tax return -- Thailand doesn't even want income that is non assessable to be listed -- let alone non income like a loan.

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

For anyone transferring funds into a Thai bank account, once Thailand get their ducks in a row, how do you propose they avoid paying tax?  

Easy. Just show TRD all the money I wired to Thailand is non assessable: Air Force pension; Social Security; inheritiance from Aunt Martha; pre-2024 money from a savings account; loan from Chase Bank, to buy a condo; gift from daddy; whatever. TRD doesn't have the resources to interview even those farangs with large wires to Thailand. They might do random tax compliance audits from this pool of fat cat farangs. But even here they'll probably find little assessable income -- or if they do, that this assessable income doesn't rise to the level of taxable income. 

The tricky part might be -- if I've co-mingled funds -- my rationale for figuring out what part of this chunk of fungible dollars is non assessable income. If TRD finally puts out guidance on this -- well, their rules may not be to our benefit. But if no guidance, and you're free to pick and choose as you wish -- well, any discussion with TRD might be very spirited. Nevertheless, without any guidance, it's hard to imagine TRD saying, "your rationale sucks, therefore you're a tax evader." But why worry about this, when the chance of being called in by TRD for a chat is zilch.