JimGant

16 minutes ago, stat said:

they could simply tax every satang unless YOU prove otherwise (They will however honor DBAs

And how will they determine which cash flow is exempt via DTA?

5 hours ago, Confuscious said:

So, Thailand will refer to the income in your bank account for their taxes claim?
Your income, but also every amount that is put in your bank account as a gift, donation, etc.?
Crazy

Nope, just numbers with a 1099 (US, or foreign eqivalent) delineating income. Other cash flow will not be considered income. Thailand may get final income numbers, when you do you 1040 tax return -- and include income from self-assessment. But right now, it doesn't appear FATCA reporting of US income involves reporting a 1040 tax return. Reporting worldwide income to Thailand should be similar to doing your US 1040, with exceptions for income excluded via DTA. Income not subject to 1099s or W2s could be ignored, if you'd like to cheat.

1 hour ago, stat said:

However maybe they decide to just tax every satang you transmit no matter if principal or loss.

You really thought that through before you pushed "send?" If so, I guess I won't waste any of my future time wading through your posts for any germane contributions.

36 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

So, Thailand will refer to the income in your bank account for their taxes claim?
Your income, but also every amount that is put in your bank account as a gift, donation, etc.?
Crazy

I would imagine the algorithms used by CRS and FATCA reporting are sophisticated enough to discern income from other cash flows. Otherwise, these reporting systems would be worthless.

38 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

The Belgian tax rule is that taxes are levied on the PREVIOUS YEAR.

I said tax year, not current year.

35 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

As far as I have been following this thread, Thailand would only tax residents based on the Income/transferred money into Thailand.

That's probably going to become history, because under the new CRS and FATCA reporting rules -- which don't address remittances -- it will be a lot easier for Thai RD authorities to identify foreign income -- and tax accordingly, without the added implement of needing to be remitted. That's why the remittance rule is probably going to be history.

35 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

Will Thailand claim Tax on money that is in my Savings account since 45 years?

Monies in an account, after the latest tax year, will be considered after tax (savings), and thus not subject to taxation. Thailand is looking to join the rest of the world, which taxes only current year income, regardless of remitances (with the some very minor exceptions, of no real note).

On 5/14/2024 at 11:35 AM, AcuDoc said:

So here is my question... worse case scenario if my wife dies for some reason what happens to the land, does it just go to her family... I know that as a farang I can't own land but is there a legal document that could have the land go to me or that it could be sold... I get along great with my in-laws and believe that they would let me live there until I die

As has already been said, have her accomplish a Will, with you designated as the inheritor of her house and land. Then go to the land office and record either a 30 year lease, or a usufruct, on the back of the Chanote.

Thus, the Will says you get the land. But, because you can't own it due to Thai law, you get "right of first disposition," meaning you can give it away to a relative, or sell it to a stranger. Makes no difference to you, at least for the next 30 years, as no one can remove you during that period, because of the lease (or even longer, if a usufruct). Only if you didn't want your relative to get the land would you sell it to a stranger -- and that would be at a substantial discount, since the stranger can't do much with that land, with your butt stuck on it for 30 years.

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

the 'running out of battery' argument is one of the most commonly used by those who are 'anti-digital-payment'.... 

How'd you get started on this tirade? My response was to someone who said "they never carried cash," opting to only pay by phone. I merely mentioned, it might be nice to carry some cash, in case the phone went south. Also, cash may come in handy to pay a tow truck, when your EV vehicle has run out of electrons.

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This was just someone trying to shoe-horn in an argument without thinking critically - most of the anti-digital payment arguments take this form and are devoid of critical logic in considering alternative options to their myopic 'whatiffery'... 

Stupid statement. Phones DO die, for battery, or other lesser reasons. Thus, for someone to say "they never carry cash" -- would seem to seem to say they haven't considered alternative -- and possibly necessary -- options.

On 5/15/2024 at 12:18 PM, george said:

I am not carrying cash. Never ever been a problem.

Ah, burp, just finished a nice, expensive meal. Take your bill to the cashier, turn on your phone, and -- whoops, battery's dead. No cash? I guess you get a free meal -- or go to the kitchen to wash dishes.

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

But since all visa's become equal once they have expired and the holder begins to use extensions, the only variable is the reason for the extension,  eg marriage, retirement etc

Actually, not true. To extend for retirement off of a Non Imm O-A -- you still needed to meet the medical insurance requirement -- unlike extending off of a Non Imm O. And they would only accept one of the designated Thai insurance companies. Bummer. LTR visas, however, tho' requiring health insurance, would accept my US govt Tricare insurance. Thus, a main reason for switching.

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Depending on the total taxable income amounts involved, the differences in tax rates between the U.S. and Thailand seem like those could result in many thousands of extra dollars of taxation occurring here if driven by large amount IRA to Roth conversions under the proposed new Thai taxation rules on foreign income.

Indeed. That's why I gave the "heads up" warning for those contemplating a Roth conversion -- 'cause if you wait until the worldwide tax scheme happens, you're in for a potentially big hit with a substantial conversion.

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

will the latest plan make it sensible for an American to do a single or maybe two very large amount Roth conversions, and how would doing so wash out between the U.S. and proposed Thai taxation schemes.

If you convert before the Thai implementation of worldwide taxation, there's no Thai taxation, since there' s no remittance involved with a conversion. But once Thai worldwide taxation comes into effect, if you convert at that point, the conversion is taxable by Thailand, since remittance is no longer a requirement. And the DTA says Thailand has exclusionary taxation rights on IRA taxable income events. US taxation on the conversion would be affected by any Thai taxation to the extent the US would have to absorb a Thai tax credit against its taxation on the IRA conversion.

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I think the notion above of the PROPOSED Thai tax changes being something that ought to trigger folks now to suddenly do LARGE dollar value Roth conversions is a problematic one..

My point was, if you've been thinking about doing a Roth, maybe sooner is better than later. But you'll probably have enough warning on whether or not you need to do it by the end of this year, if it looks like the new worldwide taxation will kick in in 2026.

All the other caveats and guidance on doing a Roth have been around for some time. The article I referenced does a good job of delineating these. The only real kicker -- other than the Thai worldwide income aspect -- is if Trump's tax cuts get eliminated, which I would guess, is doubtful. But, again, hey, if you've considered doing a Roth, some new ammunition to assist your decision. [I've never done one, and don't plan to do one. If my RMD gets taxed by the Thais, no big deal, as it will be a minimum amount, as it barely pokes into the taxable income level. Plus, the Thai taxation will then be a tax credit against the US tax on this same RMD. Ho hum.]

There are two events going on, neither of which have come into effect, and maybe never will. One is the Thai proposed taxing of worldwide income, regardless of remittance. The second is the possible disappearance of the Trump tax act, at the end of 2025. Both would have a tax hit, should you not convert your traditional IRA to a Roth.

For the worldwide tax event to come into effect -- which I believe it couldn't until, the earliest, Tax Year (TY) 2025 -- if you waited until 2025 (or whenever it came into effect), you'd pay Thai taxes on the total amount of the conversion (as they have exclusive taxation rights, per DTA) -- a total which could be a significant six-figure amount. And this conversion would be treated the same as taking a distribution from your traditional IRA, which, of course, it is -- only in total amount, instead of, say, a required minimum distribution (RMD). [see footnote]. Thus, if you converted this year, there would be no taxable event, at least to Thailand, since there's no remittance aspect to a conversion -- only an income aspect -- yet to come into play. Wait a few years to convert -- then you may be facing a Thai tax significantly greater than what you'd pay to the US -- meaning, your US tax would be completely wiped out by the Thai tax credit, so your overall taxation would be that huge hit by Thailand. Hmmmm.

The second event in play here is the possible canceling of the 2017 Trump tax cut, which could take affect in TY2026. The following article explains it nicely; and even 'tho aimed at Fed employees, it's mostly applicable to all.

Quote

As a refresher, a Roth conversion is when you take a distribution from your Traditional IRA, pay taxes on the total amount of the distribution, and then immediately convert the distribution into a Roth IRA, so that it can grow tax-free in the Roth IRA ever after.

https://www.fedsmith.com/2024/04/09/case-for-roth-conversions-through-2025/

So, convert before the Trump tax act is cancelled -- and pay less US tax on this early conversion. Plus, since you'll now have no RMD requirement, as you would have with a traditional IRA, then no taxes on an RMD, which would be at the new, higher rate. AND, no taxes to Thailand on any now non-existent RMD (which you would have, per DTA). Thus: Saving on the conversion; saving on no RMD to US at higher rate; and saving to Thailand, by having no RMD for Thailand to tax. Good stuff.

So, if you've considered doing a Roth conversion -- step on it. If you haven't considered it -- best do so!

[Note: The US-Thai DTA is explicit on: Thailand has exclusive taxation authority on US IRAs, 401ks, and the like -- spelled out in the technical explanation of this treaty. However, because the US has its 'savings clause', that allows them to tax everything, regardless of treaty language -- then, in effect, Thailand only has primary taxation rights, and the US secondary taxation rights. This doesn't affect Thailand any -- they still get to collect and keep all taxes. And the US has to absorb a tax credit from Thailand, which, should Thai taxes be low, means the US would keep some of their taxes against the IRA distribution. But, for a Roth conversion -- I would think any Thai tax credit would blow out any taxes to the US.

Second point here: It's totally weird that the US would allow in their tax treaties (all, not just with Thailand) that the resident country gets to keep all those taxes on IRAs -- that have sat tax deferred for years, with the US waiting to collect those taxes via avenues like RMDs -- but never does, because of some treaty language written by a dope. Oh well. Right now, if Thailand goes into worldwide taxation mode, my RMD will have to be declared on a Thai tax return. As it's around $15000/yr it will barely reach the taxable income mark -- so the big hit will still be my US taxes, with a slight dent from a Thai tax credit.]

1 hour ago, MeePeeMai said:

"If the deceased person did not file individual income tax returns for the years before their death, their surviving spouse or representative may have to file prior year returns."

 

 

Surely you don't want this burden to fall on your wife's shoulders after you die

What are you talking about? The wife and I will have filed a joint return right up to, and into, the year of my death. What "burden to fall on wife's shoulders" are you talking about?

OOPs, sorry. Double response.

1 hour ago, MeePeeMai said:

will be inheriting your IRA's and other assets in the USA and will be required to file a final year return for you (joint return?) especially if she takes distributions from your IRA's that year.

Both our IRA Required Minimum Distributions have 22% withheld, per agreement with Schwab, which completely covers any tax due on this, as we're not yet in the 24% tax category. I always take our RMDs in the first week of Jan, thus, should I die, that's out of the way for the wife -- as she needs my RMD out of the way to inherit my IRA. In any event, as previously discussed, this 22% withholding - which matches dollar for dollar the taxes due on the IRA distribution - means we've over withheld by about $400. And the wife can completely blow off having to file a tax return.

18 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

If the deceased person did not file individual income tax returns for the years before their death, their surviving spouse or representative may have to file prior year returns."

 

 

Surely you don't want this burden to fall on your wife's shoulders after you die.  Not without some solid help anyway... and yes, she will need someone in the US to help her

Huh? The wife and I will file a joint return right into the year I die. What possible "prior year returns" are you alluding to?

Hey, give it a rest. I've got this thing covered.

1 hour ago, MeePeeMai said:

THEN you are required to file a tax return (even if you overpaid your estimated taxes or withheld too much from your salary).  Poster Presnock believes that you are not required to file a tax return (at any income level) as long as you don't owe any ADDTIONAL tax to the IRS.  That is false. 

Presnock is pretty smart. And, certainly, he knows that there are minor exceptions for filing requirements, like, have self-employment income exceeding $400.

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

US taxes can be efiled

Not be a wife who can't even do email.

2 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

There are many things to consider if leaving it all to your wife and further research on "Thai or Foreign Nationals inheriting IRAs etc." and what's involved in the process.

Save your breath. Again, the wife is a US citizen, thus, none of the things you mention apply to her.

2 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

Have a look at this link (for example)

Irrelevant. Wife is US citizen.

2 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

I could be wrong about this one but I don't believe that your wife can inherent your IRA (as a beneficiary) or any other probate free assets in the USA until your Federal taxes are complete for your final year (and she'll need your death certificate).  It must be shown that there will be no final taxes due on your estate - "probate free" or not.

Again, wife is US citizen.