JimGant

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

With respect, the Royal Decree does not state the foreign source income is not assessable.  Instead, it states it is exempt.  Is 'exempt' and 'not assessable' the same?

 

If it was the same, why does Thailand have a form specifically where one must list their 'tax exemptions'  as part of a tax return?

I believe the exemption lines on the tax return are for items -- like per diem -- to net out gross domestic income. Foreign source income is, of practicality, treated as already netted-out income. But, yeah, you could report foreign source income gross, then line item out exempt expenses. But why? The whole game is to not even report any foreign source income on the tax return -- it is -- by Royal Decree an "exempt", ergo, "not assessable" amount of income.

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Frankly, I think it's nonsense of a degree, the like of which we've not seen here before.

The only nonsense is Mike Lister's constant drumbeat about having to file a tax return if your assessable income exceeds 60000, 120000, or 220000 -- depending on your status. All my workers -- probably all the workers in my Moo Baan -- exceed these numbers. But few, if any, have income that exceeds the taxable threshold. So, why in the world would TRD want to see any filings from them -- or from farangs also without taxable income.

Quote

I will calculate if I owe any income taxes (including the use of the DTA). If I do not have to pay any income taxes, then I will not lodge a tax return.

Thanks, T&G -- for the most sane utterance to come out of this discussion. Mike, not sure why you're such a troublemaker over this issue.....? Thailand -- and TRD -- are not interested in folks with no taxable income. Only you are, apparently.

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

They stated that there is no 'rule or regulation' in the Tax Code in that regards, but that TRD had advised in the past that PIT people do not have to lodge a return, if they do not work for a company OR if they do not have to pay any income taxes.

AMEN!

23 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

My wife then noted one can apply for a tax-ID online, and we are now investigating that.

Please report "no." I've got print outs from this forum, from two different sources, who reported they were denied a TIN, because they didn't have work permits. Those are in my file, should I ever be audited about taking a tax credit against my US taxes, for the piddly amount I pay in taxes against my Bangkok Bank savings account interest.

Why? Because I'm supposedly not allowed a credit -- if I'm able to have the Thai taxes refunded. But, of course, for that refund -- I need a TIN. And, since I got advice on an upscale forum, like Asean Now -- that I can't get a TIN -- and thus can't get a refund -- well, hey Uncle Sam, there you have it.

Anyway, nitnoy credit. But minimum effort, as only an entry of the credit on one line of my US tax return (the more involved Form 1116 is only required for tax credit amounts exceeding $600 -- married, filing jointly).

So, happy not to have a TIN, nor, apparently, required to have one.

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

It reads like a lot of effort to fill in a form for no tax due ?? But maybe I am missing something??

No, you've just been brainwashed by reading too much on this forum, about having to file a tax return, because your assessable income is 60000 baht (about one/third of what my gardener is paid -- and who, of course, files no income tax form). Ludicrous. Worse that can happen is a 2000 baht fine - and the chance of that happening is zilch.

Time to grow a set -- and read the royal decree literally -- your foreign source income is NOT assessable. Yes, this was written when remitted income was the flavor of the day. But, I would bet a bundle that this will extend to worldwide income, should that come about.

Frustrating that BoI won't say: I don't know. But, have you ever gotten such an answer from a Thai? Nope. They're maddeningly adept at not losing face, by admitting they don't know. Department store clerks are the worst. But, that's part of the price we pay for living here -- and it pales in comparison to the good aspects.

2 hours ago, stat said:

Thailand stated explicitly that once income is taxed somewhere else it will not be taxed again in TH.

There were rumblings of that, early in this game, that had said something like, "If your home country has a DTA with Thailand, any you pay taxes to your home country, then Thailand will not tax same income." And a recent article in the Pattaya rag, without reference, said basically the same. Such language would make matters much easier on both you and me, as well as TRD. However, it would also cost Thailand lost tax revenue, by cutting Thailand out of the pattern, where the DTA gives it primary taxation rights.

And primary taxation rights mean Thailand keeps all the taxes, and doesn't have to absorb a credit. Only the home country absorbs a credit. Don't really believe Thailand wants to forgo a taxation windfall by saying, "pay taxes to home country, forget paying full fare taxes to Thailand, per DTA."

You can give up your Virginia residency -- for tax purposes -- but still keep your current drivers license. However, should you renew that license, that's prima facie proof that you're still a resident of Virginia -- and thus subject to Virginia income tax.

44 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

To be clear, you are suggesting that tax residents simply "hide" income such as US Social Security from a Thai tax return rather than documenting on the return that a DTA shields that US income from Thai taxation.

Exactly where on the return would you put this information? Per the DTA, this income does not exist for any Thai taxation purpose. Are you suggesting the TRD wants footnotes of all non assessable income not being reported?

15 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

And if you don't -- naughty, naughty, naughty.

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Your statement that "there will and must come more clarification from the TRD" is interesting....I'm betting not, why would there be

Yeah, why, indeed, would there be any clarification needed. Thus, as there's nothing in the Thai tax code about accounting convention for remittances -- you're then free to choose whatever convention best suits your bottom line. For me, that's FIFO.

On 7/1/2024 at 9:41 AM, Moonlover said:

do not use the  'Funds for long term stay' option. That always introduces a delay.

I don't believe purpose of transfer would affect the other parameters. But, I'm curious as to why you think so.

On 6/26/2024 at 8:33 AM, LuckyG said:

Would a will be considered invalid if not registered?

Absolutely not.

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

So If you switch Thailand for the UK then I am using an overseas credit card (from UK) in Thailand & authorising the overseas/UK credit card company to pay the bill for the goods or service & if I pay that using cash in the UK would be taxable remittance in Thailand IF they applied the same rules. 

Interesting -- kinda turns a credit card into a debit card -- and seemingly at odds with their statement I provided. Anyway, hard for me to get my head around this UK carve-out for taxing remittances, just for folks who are "non domiciled residents." Huh?

But, re Thailand -- I guess the operative word in your statement, above, is: IF

And if they don't use the UK example in any definitive guidance -- I'd be comfortable in equating a credit card loan to a loan for a condo. Certainly, this would be a logical argument -- in the unlikely event there would ever be a discussion with TRD on my credit card charges, on which they'd have little to no data.

40 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Another one - are you serious mate - sanctimonious statements like that just prove you are wrong IMO.

OK, you're right -- only the USA can tax US income. Whew. No more worries about Thai taxation, as US income is all I have.

6 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 if a USA citizen living in Thailand receives a lump sum termination payment in USA, will they be liable to pay income taxes on that amount to Thailand. My understanding is that USA Citizens only pay income taxes to USA on money earned in USA

I've already quoted the Thai-US DTA, giving primary taxation rights to Thailand on certain kinds of pensions, to include periodic payment pensions, and lump sum pensions. Believe I answered this question in my previous post.

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Other guys opinion is that a Credit Card purchase is a short term loan & loans are not considered to be assessable income, I originally thought the same but found out that the UK treats any Credit Card purchase as remitted income & as that's the only country I'm familiar with that taxes on a remittance basis changed my opinion. 

Nope. For those UK folks subject to remittance tax, here's what is said about using a UK issued credit card to make purchases, either in the UK, or abroad.

Quote

If a taxpayer who is chargeable on the remittance basis uses a UK credit card to pay for goods or services, either in the UK or overseas and he or she subsequently settles their credit card bill using foreign income or gains, the payment is a taxable remittance.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm36130

So, only if you pay off your UK credit card bill with foreign source income or gains, will it be considered a taxable remittance. Pay it off from your UK bank -- no remittance tax.

Thus, only if I pay off my US credit card bill with, say, a check from my Bangkok Bank account -- or any other foreign source money, will the credit card charges being paid off be considered the equivalent of remitted foreign source income (using the UK example, which is the only one I can find).

So, when I purchase something in Thailand with my US credit card -- and pay it off from my US checking account -- this is not the equivalent of treating the purchase value as a marker for foreign source remitted income. Even if the money I pay it off with would be considered assessable foreign source income -- had it been remitted to Thailand to make that purchase in lieu of my credit card.

Thus, a credit card loan to buy a hamburger in Bangkok is treated the same as a bank loan to buy a condo in Bangkok. Both are loans, and both are paid back from a US source -- and are thus not treated as the equivalent of foreign source remitted income.

40 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Hmmm, 200+ pages of clowns and conspiracy theorists doing their usual whining, or a Thai tax lawyer that does this for a living.  So hard to decide who to listen to.

Bingo!