JimGant

Presumably this means no requirement for 400K in the bank, or its monthly remittance equivalent, for an extension based on marriage?

Doubtful. There's no way they can parse a cash flow into Thailand, especially if its from a savings, checking, or credit union account -- to determine what's income and what's principal. The holdings in my savings account, from where my SWIFT, Wise and ATM transfers occur, has my after tax withholding direct deposits from my Air Force retirement; Social Security; and IRA RMD annual payment. Only my annual reinvested interest is not after tax payment (withholding). But, if we're going FIFO for my wire transfers, last year's interest shows up as taxed on my IRS 1040 tax return. Anyway, if I send a load of cash to Thailand from the account mentioned above, there's no way the Thai RD folks could parse what's what for income tax purposes. Stupid if they even tried. And for those arguing about ATM remittances, since these come from the same kind of accounts I'm talking about here -- same argument. So, it will be interesting to see how cash flow remittances into Thailand will be scrutinized to determine what's income taxable by Thailand -- and what's not. That's where this whole new drill breaks down. Best option is to just concentrate on income earned abroad, and identified with the new CRS, or equivalent, data reporting systems. Forget remittance.

Actually, the FATCA reporting threshold is $50K for bank reporting requirements; 10K is the FBAR threshold for individual reporting requirement. Sounds like there's something afoot in Congress about matching FBAR to the FATCA $50K threshold. Since Congress only elects idiots these days, can't see much happening with this ... not until Hunter Biden is tar and feathered.

Not for Yanks. We already pay max taxes on our worldwide income. Should Thailand decide to tax some income they haven't taxed in the past -- I'd just get a tax credit for these Thai taxes against my US taxes, with the result being same total tax paid, only Thailand now gets a bigger share than the US. No big deal. But, yeah, I can see some folks now getting a free ride on taxation becoming worried about having to pay someone taxes. So sad.

This is where it gets cloudy. First and foremost, Thailand is looking at taxing only income REMITTED to Thailand -- not identifying taxable income generated abroad, and identifiable from all the new, modern data sharing records under FATCA and CRS, and other schemes -- but not necessarily remitted to Thailand. So, how in the world is Thailand going to identify what is, and what is not, taxable cash flow from a WISE transfer from your savings account, which contains a basket of funds, mostly after-tax deposits, but also net deposits after withholding of taxes, plus, yes, taxable interest. They can't really come knock on your door and say we believe you have a taxable event here. So, if you have a firehose transfer of money from a savings or checking account, don't worry about some Thai tax authority pondering its contents. Yes, a direct deposit from a private pension to Thailand could draw more attention. But even here, I doubt there would be resources for such scrutiny. Bottom line: Don't worry about it.

But why would Thailand want to? There's nothing in the treaty hindering tax collections of US private pensions, for example. It's just that Thailand hasn't put out an order to identify all those direct deposits of private pensions -- prima facie of taxable income coming into Thailand in year paid. And I doubt Thailand would really want to rock the boat and put US gov't pensions in the taxable category -- not that the US would allow it. No, I can't understand why the treaty somehow applies to where things are now headed....

Why? I got my LTRWP based on military pension and social security. These are all untaxable by Thailand, under treaty rules. But, if Thailand did tax some of my income, I'd just get a tax credit on my US taxes -- and nothing would change.

Example: US taxpayer, who must declare all his worldwide income on his annual US tax return, including private pension income, which the tax treaty with Thailand says is "primarily taxed" by Thailand (not to be confused with gov't pensions and social security, whose taxation is the exclusive right of the US). So, Joe America, who has his Ford Motor Company pension direct deposited into a Thai bank account, knows that, per the tax treaty, Thailand has first dibs on taxing this private pension -- and, as such, he files a Thai tax return showing this income (yeah, right....). Now, say the effective Thai tax rate for his $50000 income is 10%, which amounts to baht equivalent of $5000. But when Joe files his US Form 1040 tax return, including the $50000 Ford pension, same as reported on Thai tax return -- he finds that, since his effective tax rate is 15% -- his US tax on this $50000 amounts to $7500. But, he gets a tax credit of $5000 for the Thai taxes paid, thus he only pays Uncle Sam a net $2500 in taxes for his Ford pension. Thus, total taxes paid are $7500 --$5000 to Thailand, $2500 to the US. Which, means, no tax break here -- you end up paying a total tax bill equivalent to the higher effective tax rate of whichever of the two treaty countries. [If Thailand had a 20% effective tax rate, your total taxes would have been $10000.] Anyway, we could get into semantics here about 'not expecting to pay the difference.' But, that's what happens in avoiding double taxation when you have to file with both countries (which, by the way, the US tax credit is NOT treaty driven, but is part of the US Tax Code).

Wow, what a bunch of misconceptions on this thread. First and foremost, this new rule is not about the timing of cash flow (or no cash flow) from abroad, to Thai tax residents. It's about taxing income earned abroad. Period. And before today's FATCA and CRS reporting avenues, plus similar worldwide financial reporting processes, incoming cash flow was the only method of identifying income. And if that was next year, yes, you could make a rule exempting such cash flow from taxation. No more. Now, with all this financial information sharing, you can identify income earned abroad by Thai tax residents. And it would make no difference if remitted next year, this year -- or never -- because it's in the worldwide data base as income. Period. Why care when remitted.....? So, the Thai gov't has finally gotten smart on collecting taxes, courtesy of modern data collection methods. So, no need to monitor the source of cash flows coming into Thailand -- not that this could ever be cost effective. So, farang retirees, quit worrying about the Thai gov't wondering about the source of your 65k baht monthly remittances. Not sure why countries with DTA's would be exempted..... As a Yank, my Air Force and Social Security checks are exempt from Thai taxes, per treaty. However, if I had a pension from Boeing, or even my IRA payout, the DTA says that Thailand has first dibs on taxing this income. And it would make sense, that if Thailand could discover this in the FATCA data base, that they would knock on my door and ask why I hadn't declared this income in a Thai tax return..... Today, of course, I could just say this money was sent from my savings account, co-mingled with other funds -- so it's from last year. The new rule, of course, would end this charade. But, as a Yank, if the Thais taxed my Boeing pension, and my IRA -- and since I have to also declare this income in my US tax return (due to the "saving clause" in the DTA) -- I would just take a credit for this Thai tax. And break even. Thus, nothing to worry about re additional taxes with this new proposed Thai tax law. Now, for those farangs who somehow no longer pay taxes to their mother country -- and haven't paid taxes to Thailand due to the next year remittance policy -- welcome to today's world of CRS reporting: Thai taxes may be in your future.

My LTR application included my last year's tax return, with 1099's -- so certainly I've shown my exemption as having been taxed in a foreign country. But if somehow Thailand got first dibs on taxing, say, my IRA proceeds -- I'd just get a tax credit on my US tax return -- like I do today on my Thai taxes on my Bangkok Bank interest. No extra money out of my pocket, however things evolve. But, it is nice to see that Thai fat cats may have to ante up towards paying their govt's bills.

Why? What travel event caused this -- did you move to a new address? If not, why fiddle with your current TM30 situation?

Not sure this guy's got his act together.....

Sounds like this new online procedure is just for landlords, or other property owners who might have a TM30 reporting responsibility. Or am I missing something......? For now, like with John, I'll just assume my 7 year old TM30, as a tenant of my wife's home, will suffice. Yes, when I did annual retirement extensions, they asked for my TM30. But now, I have an LTR visa -- and in that application process, the TM30 (unlike the TM6 and TM47) was never asked for. Thus, when I have to renew at the 5 year point, can't imagine a TM30 would, at last, be asked for..... Anyway, I'll just assume that, if I return to my wife's home, i.e., my permanent TM30 address, after any domestic or international travel -- I don't need to worry about registering on the TM30 online site, per past guidance on these scenarios.

Regardless of how superior Wise's FX rate is, compared to the rate received with a SWIFT transfer -- at some point the fixed cost of a SWIFT transfer will be less than the total cost of a Wise transfer, which, because its variable cost increases with every extra amount sent, will cross over the total SWIFT cost at some point. As mentioned above, this is about at the $25000 mark for US transfers. Fairly intuitive math, I would think.... Now, for SWIFT transfers from countries other than the US -- maybe some do have unlimited variable costs, akin to Wise. Then, yes, in these situations the superior Wise FX rate may rue the day forever.

Indeed. The US understood that Thailand wanted absolute verification of income (doable thru State Dept apostilles or authentication certificates, but not practical, given the nature of finances being verified, plus Embassy/Consulate resources). Other countries interpreted the Thai request as "reasonable effort certification of income." And had minimum problem going that route. The US was probably happy to get out of this sham, knowing that many (most?) income statements they were annually issuing were bogus. Thus, perfectly happy to no longer issue fraudulent income statements, as the Thais requested. But knowing legitimate US retirees had the resources to meet the Thai requirement for monthly cash flow to Thailand, or money balance kept in a Thai bank. I certainly can't fault the Thai gov't for trying to eliminate faulty income statements from foreign embassies. But, actually, the Thai gov't should have eliminated all income statements, in lieu of having all foreign residents showing a positive cash flow into Thailand of sustainable resources, either periodically or lump sum in a bank account. But, hats off to Norway, and similar others, that took the "reasonable effort certification of income" route. Sure, some extra resources required -- but it does give its citizens of character a additional option over cash flow to Thailand, periodically or in lump sum.

Why not just travel with both passports, until it's time to renew your annual extension? Why an extra step to Imm to transfer stamps, if not needed to continue traveling with two passports?

Of course, 'cause SWIFT transfer costs are fixed: I pay $45 front end, 500 baht back end (for amounts exceeding $5900). Period. Wise has a variable fee of around .63% for every dollar sent. Thus, for a SWIFT transfer, all my costs are in the first $5900. After that, every additional dollar sent has zip variable cost -- while Wise adds a variable cost of around 6 cents for every additional $10 sent. You don't have to be a math major to realize that, at some point, total fees for a Wise transfer will exceed those of a SWIFT transfer -- and there's nothing that Wise's favorable exchange rate can do to alter that math. Having said that, the cross over point -- figured out on this forum years ago -- is around $25000. And since that's the amount I usually send, I use Wise, preferring to do the action on my PC, and not with a required phone call to USAA for a SWIFT transfer. Anyway, a lot of variables with Wise, mainly depending on currency being sent, and to where. Maybe Wise does better in all situations involving Sterling transfers.... But I can't imagine how, as long as fixed and variable costs are the players....

...and also physically have to go to Immigration every year! Yes, the Elite hand holders will drive you there, and take you to the front of the line. But I never want to see CM Imm again in my lifetime -- at any point in the line. Heck, for years I paid an agent 3000 baht to drive me to Imm and jump the line; why would I want to pay 2M baht to have Elite Visa drive me to Imm once a year, for 20 years.....? So, as a non traveler, with an LTR I stay away from Imm offices for 5 years (until I have to revalidate at OSS/BoI). I only have to report once a year my address, and this appears doable by registered mail. And even if you do travel internationally, LTR has Fast Track, like Elite. Maybe no golf cart for door-to-door -- but that could be more of an annoyance than an Elite Visa "great perk." Same with free golf green fees, which might have been nice when I was younger, but not now. No, not worth it (and the Elite prices are now greater than I'm quoting, right?). So, it's a complete no brainer to go the LTR route if you're a retiree that rarely/never travels -- and meets the not-too-rigorous financials. Plus, BoI has eased up on the health insurance requirement, if you have a certifiable health insurance plan, like my US military Tricare (and, of course, the self-insuring path is probably an option for most able to meet the other financials). It's maddening when you do a Google search for LTR vs. Elite visas, and find most hits are totally biased for the Elite Visa....any skids being greased here? And, sure, if you're under 50 and income poor, the Elite may be your option. But for us geezers, the Elite looks like it sucks for what you pay, especially in light of the LTR Wealthy Pensioner option. Oh, the intial startup hiccups appear to have been eliminated, as all the online application procedure went smoothly for me, and I got my approval in 15 days (June 2023). Yeah, a couple weeks later I required a trip from Chiang Mai to Bangkok to get the LTR stamp at BoI OSS. But, treated myself to a five star stay, so it turned out fun. Plus, all interfaces were smooth and quite professional. No, if you qualify for an LTR visa, the Elite Visa is NOT a viable option.

The original story is, if you want an annual income letter from the Norwegian Embassy for your retirement extension in Thailand, you can no longer just provide a monthly income statement and have the Norwegian authorities multiply by 12 to arrive at an annual income statement. But there's nothing requiring a Norwegian to get an annual income letter from the embassy to provide to Thai Immigration. Instead, especially if they can't prove an annual income of the amount required, they can go the 800/400k baht in the bank route -- or the 65k baht per month sent to Thailand -- just like the rest of us. In the latter case, Thai authorities have no way of knowing, under current policy, what kind of "income" this is. Instead, they're completely happy to know and see that it's a "positive cash flow." They don't care if it's earned income, unearned income, money from your savings account, or a gift from Aunt Matilda. In fact, they're probably happier seeing a positive cash flow into Thailand -- than seeing an income letter that shows gross income -- but doesn't show that it's negative cash flow, after taxes, mortgage, and alimony.

You'll need to make an appointment first, as that appointment date is plugged into the TM94 and STM8 forms -- and thus they won't appear until you have a date. If you've got some wiggle room, I'd get a new passport first, cancel your current application, then start again with your new passport. Even those folks with passports that expire in less than five years should think about getting new passports before applying for an LTR visa in Thailand (otherwise you'll get a less than five year admitted until stamp). For Yanks, State Dept has no restriction on how old your passport must be in order to renew it. Getting your LTR from an Embassy/Consulate? No need to worry about when your passport expires, as you don't need to do anything when it does. Think it has to have at least 6 months validity, however, when you apply for the LTR.

Email sent today to BoI: Answer (within hours): Nobody home, I guess -- at least in the email answering department. Pib, time for you to take another trip to OSS and grab some short and curlies....

Gawd, if that would only happen to Dr Jack....

Wow, what a juvenile response. It's obvious, from other responders, like Pib, that there is a chance you'll be hit up for your TM30. Small chance, maybe. But be prepared anyway -- unless, like Pib, you want to end up in a four hour queue for a TM30. With some luck, DrJack's next extension will require a TM30, and he'll have to spend most of the day at CW getting one. Then, we can all giggle at his trip report, and his historical chutzpah. . By the way, don't throw out your TM6, as CW has suggested. Last month, getting my LTR visa at BoI OSS, the Imm at that location not only wanted a copy of my TM6, but the original. Fortunately, that dog eared original was stapled to my passport. Imm, as we all know, is a box of chocolates -- depending on location, individual personnel, and moon phase. Thus, to argue against one person's experience, is ludicrous.

Why no TIN? For 2023, unless wife earns more than $13,850 equivalent (and declarable), filing jointly would be money in your pocket over filing 'married filing separately.' Anyway, too late this year -- need to wait until you file next year to get an ITIN -- if that should be to your advantage. If you survive surgery, think about it (if you don't -- nevermind). And I mention this, because if you make your bank accounts in the US with your wife as Pay On Death (POD) beneficiary, they won't have to go through probate -- same as your IRA, which now has your wife as beneficiary, with apparently her passport number sufficing. And maybe your bank would do the same, setting up PODs for the wife with only her passport number as ID, as there's no Federal requirement PODs need an SSN attached - only a bank, and some States', requirement. Worth a try, to avoid probate in the US. You can draft a Will yourself, using one of many Will templates floating around on Thai websites (these templates cover the basic necessities required by both Thai and US Will preparation). Make it all encompassing, meaning it can cover all your world assets (in your case, just state: this covers all my assets in both Thailand and the US, including Thai bank accounts XYZ; US bank accounts ABC; and any subsequently established bank accounts; and my US IRA. Name wife as executor and sole beneficiary. Have two witnesses (yes, not your wife), of sound mind and over 18, witness your signature. Include their Thai ID numbers. Cell phone video the signing and the Will. Give the Will and thumb drive to your wife. No need to register the Will, nor in any way involve the Amphur (this is a persisting myth). Hopefully, your wife can clean out your Thai bank accounts, assuming you use online banking. Or make her a co-signatory on your accounts, allowing her to go to the bank in person, with your passbook, and remove most of your funds (can't close account). If this runs into a snag, and she must go through probate, well then she must hire a lawyer, plus have your English original Will translated into Thai. Probate is advertised to cost around 50,000 baht. [By the way, you can get a Will drafted by a Thai law firm for between 5000 - 10000 baht, at least according to reports on this forum.] And hopefully you can POD your US accounts. If not, ask the bank as to whether or not they'll honor your Thai Will as the legal designator of your beneficiary (the US is pretty flexible on ways around probate). But certainly there should be no need to prepare a separate US Will, hire a lawyer in the US as contingent to possible probate, etc. And certainly a Will you write or have prepared in Thailand, in English, that covers your worldwide assets, would be acceptable in all the US States and territories. Good luck with your surgery.