Felt 35

On 10/17/2023 at 10:35 AM, Goat said:

You like to whine and complain.

I doubt anyone will drive more, they will just pay less.

If they put it up would you still be bitchin?

No, just stating the fact.

Felt

5 hours ago, stat said:

Many people no longer have a "home country" in a DTA sense as they are living full time in Thailand and do not have an abode abroad (with the exceptiosn of the US guys).

I have a home country and a DTA but not a address there so please not tell me savings abroad and a small interest on that and never remitted to Thailand (Living expenses is covered by monthly pension) have to be declared here??

Felt

25 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

I think it is pretty clear the which way Thailand is headed. Not a secret anymore IMO.

Nja... we will see where heading when winning team is more clear..... 

https://fortune.com/2023/10/13/ray-dalio-says-world-war-50-50-israel-palestine-gaza-hamas-russia-ukraine/

Fantastic then we can drive more during the 7 dangerous days and not only that, the treasury will be filled according to the budget even with reduced liter prices. Amazing New Year gift and sound economical planning...forget the 7 days its nearly free..????

This below is translated (hmm.. think I seen similar earlier????) from Q & A on Rd`s website. It does not cover all situations but roughly its a indication of what's coming.

Revenue Department Order No. P.161/2023 regarding personal income tax payment according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code
Dated 15 September 2023

Question: Revenue Department Order No. P. 161/2023 dated September 15, 2023. What are the principles?
Answer: Revenue Department Order No. P. 161/2023 explains the legal principles according to Section 41, paragraph two, a person will have a duty to pay personal income tax from foreign sources of income when entering the following elements
A person has assessable income from foreign sources in the tax year of being in Thailand for 180 days or more, and
 that person brought such assessable income into Thailand in that tax year or in subsequent tax years.
If both elements above are complete, that person has a duty to include that assessable income in calculating personal income tax in the tax year in which the assessable income was brought into Thailand.
Example: In 2023, Mr. A was in Thailand for a total of 200 days. Mr. A had assessable income from renting property located abroad by receiving the rental money into a bank account located abroad. Later in the year 2027 Mr. A transferred the said money into a bank account in Thailand. Mr. A must use the said assessable income brought in Thailand to calculate personal income tax for the tax year 2027.

Question: When does the Revenue Department Order No. P.161/2023 dated September 15, 2023 come into effect?
Answer: It applies to assessable income no matter what year it occurred that bring money into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards

Question: People who live in Thailand means what?
Answer: Any person who is present in Thailand for a total of 180 days or more within a tax year. Whether staying in Thailand for a single consecutive period or staying in Thailand for several periods combined, regardless of the nationality or ethnicity of that person.
Example: 
**Mr. A. is in Thailand every day from January to December 2024, a total of 366 days. Mr. A. is a resident of Thailand in tax year 2024.
**Ms. B. is in Thailand only on odd months in 2024, for a total of 184 days. Ms. B. is a resident of Thailand in tax year 2024.
**Mr. C. was in Thailand from January to December 2024, a total of 179 days. Mr. C. is not a resident of Thailand in tax year 2024.
**Mrs. D. has been in Thailand continuously for a total of 250 days, with the first 100 days being in 2024 and the last 150 days being in 2025. As such, Mrs. D. is not a resident of Thailand in both tax years 2024 and Tax year 2025 because Mrs. D was in Thailand for less than 180 days in that tax year.

Question: What types of assessable income are subject to income tax according to Section 41, paragraph two, of the Revenue Code?
Answer: Assessable income from foreign sources that is subject to income tax including assessable income according to Section 40 (1) to (8) of the Revenue Code.
However, if it is assessable income that is exempt from tax according to the taxpayer law. There is no need to bring that assessable income to pay taxes in Thailand. Such as receiving an inheritance or income received from the support of parents. Descendants or spouse. Only income that does not exceed twenty million baht throughout the tax year, etc.

Question: If you use the money to buy bonds overseas and earn interest on holding those bonds. Later, the principal and interest were brought back to Thailand. Do I have to add principal and interest to calculate personal income tax?
Answer: No. Income tax will be paid only on interest that is assessable income under Section 40 (4) (a) of the Revenue Code that is brought back into Thailand. If in the tax year such interest is received and that person staying in Thailand for more than 180 days

Question: If it is assessable income received before 2024 but the money is brought into Thailand in 2024, will it have to be taxed?
Answer: Tax must be paid if it is income that occurs in the tax year in which the income earner resident in Thailand from 180 days or more in that tax year and bring in that assessable income from 1 January 2024 onwards. Those with income must bring such assessable income must be included in the calculation for personal income tax in tax year 2024 by March 2025.

Question: If it is assessable income received in 2023 and brought back into Thailand in 2023, will it have to be taxed?
Answer: Tax is payable if it is income that occurs in the tax year in which the income earner is in Thailand 180 days or more in that tax year and bring that assessable income into the year 2023. The income earner must include the said assessable income in calculating personal income tax in the tax year 2023 and submit the form within March 2024.

Question: If you are not in Thailand for 180 days or more in the tax year but have assessable income from foreign sources in that tax year, you must pay income tax when brings assessable income back into Thailand or not?
Answer: No personal income tax is required. Even if the assessable income is brought back into Thailand.
Example: In 2028, Mr. A is in Thailand for a total of 65 days. Mr. A has assessable income from renting property located abroad by receiving the rental money into a bank account located abroad and in the same year, Mr. A. transferred the said income to a bank account in Thailand, Mr. A. did not have to pay personal income tax on the said rental money because you were not a resident of Thailand when the money was generated.

Question: If a person lives and works or operates the business in a foreign country for a long time. Later, wanted to return to live in Thailand. Therefore, he brought back money accumulated from working or operating a business abroad. Will this person have to pay taxes on bringing the savings into Thailand?
Answer: No tax is required in the case of bringing savings from working or operating a business abroad into Thailand because savings are derived from assessable income that occurred in the tax year in which the person was not in Thailand over 180 days
Example: Mrs. D. is of Thai nationality and has been living in China since 2007 But in 2024, Mrs. D. wants to return to live in Thailand permanently. Therefore, all accumulated funds from operations in China were brought back into Thailand. As such, Mrs. D. is not obliged to pay personal income tax on money brought into Thailand in 2024 Because the said accumulated money comes from assessable income arising in the tax year in which Mrs. D. is not a resident of Thailand.

Question: If assessable income is brought in Thailand, It is income that has already been taxed abroad, do I have to pay taxes again? Is it double taxation? 
Answer: There is no double taxation. In the case of being a tax resident of Thailand (staying in Thailand for more than 180 days), the tax paid abroad can be credited against the tax paid in Thailand in the tax year that brings assessable income into Thailand according to the provisions of the double tax treaty that Thailand is a contracting party with that country.

Question: Revenue Department Order No. P.161/2023 is not a law. Must taxpayers comply with the Revenue Department's orders?
Answer: It is not a law, but it is an explanation of law section 41. paragraph two of the Revenue Code Taxpayers still has a duty to comply with the law when paying taxes. The Revenue Department order, type P., is an order given by the Director-General. as commander Instruct revenue officials to consider this as a practice guideline. to provide advice to taxpayers to be able to comply with the law correctly.

They are well paid to say the above and then.....

On 10/4/2023 at 5:05 AM, Stargeezr said:

Military and police

????Maybe when a military exercise with soldiers loaded up on trucks passing by and likewise with police unless guards at a special event or in the police boxes in centre of town ???? However I see and hear a lot of ambulances 24/7 .

Felt

29 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

That is the first I am hearing about that?? Has it happened to anyone yet? 

Yes, and I think for most of they who already are a resident for tax purposes. Now I aware the masses are not affected yet but following the new rules coming next year I have problems to se how it can be different for anyone else as long as money is remitted / brought into Thailand. 

Felt 

I wonder how this will unfold for those of us who already pay tax here on pensions as tax residents and are under a tax treaty with Thailand. (I guess more forms and personal confirmations????) Personally, I only transfer 60-70% of the pension annually via Bangkok Bank the rest is taxed back home. I never transfer interest or other amounts from savings accounts as larger investments have never been of interest here. Regardless, the way up to now has been paid here and checked here is that annually I get a statement for the taxable year from Bangkok Bank showing transfers to Thailand where each International transfer must be underlined, signed and delivered together with PND 91, plus a copy of all pages of passport, as well as a personal statement with count of days with all the periods written down that I have stayed in Thailand in total in the tax year. I fill in the sum from the Bank's total sum of international transfers and when filling in PND 91 deducts the same amount that a Thai citizen is entitled to do. After payment, all documents must be copied and a new application must be made to the regional head office of Thai Rd., for and to be issued the Tax payment certificate and Certificate of Residence in English. These certificates take some time and 2-3 weeks must be expected before you receive them in the post sent by EMS from Rd. I am then obliged to send these forms to the home country either by post or electronically together with the tax return to the home country. Will also add that "TIN" according to new rules from about 2018 (I think worldwide) now required by the Banks in the home country, so with that they, and the home country's tax authority have full access to all transactions and accounts. It's usually been no big problems, but I still think it's a lot of paperwork for elderly people but fortunately and at least for now its been allowed to have an authorized other party to take care of the practical payment at the tax office.

Felt

On 9/26/2023 at 11:25 AM, Dogmatix said:

I feel that looking at gifts is a dead end, if the money doesn't come from already taxed income in Thailand. Anyway the limit is 20 mil for family members and 10 mil for others, not 100 mil, which is inheritance tax.

Hmm????...well, I'm planning to buy a new (used) car so was just thinking about transfer to the better half before New year, to me, no I will be taxed and Rd, will see that next year on the bank statement I provide annually when paying tax for this year.

Felt

Just now, freeworld said:

No, if you do not bring the interest to Thailand it will not be taxed.

????

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

If you bring that passive income dividends or interest into Thailand and it has not been taxed abroad then it will be taxable according to Thai tax law but as it is income if it is below the marginal tax rate and minus the deductions it may not be taxable.

What if you are a tax resident already and on a DTA. Pay tax on pension here but keep savings which generate interest abroad! The interest is following the DTA not taxed. However, it's also never brought to Thailand. Will Thailand still have the right to demand to tax the interest?

Felt

1 hour ago, sathornlover said:

How should this “gift” be made by a foreigner in Thailand as a “tax resident” to his Thai spouse without the Revenue Department deeming this gift as tax avoidance. These monetary gifts can also be transferred from the donor's foreign account to the spouse's Thai bank account on a regular basis every 1-12 months? Are these types of donations subject to reporting and if so, by whom and in what form?

 

I'm a bit skeptical...

So am I and best to get that gift away before New Year is my thinking.????

Felt 

Seems thankfully its only money from whatever brought into Thailand so then assets /interest abroad should stay clear from being taxable in Thailand.

Thailand Foreign Source Income Personal Tax - SHERRINGS

I don't think we get any more detailed information from Rd, until we pay tax for 2024 otherwise that should be on their webpage by now. Hmm....part of the plan???? Below is googles translation of the new regulation.

Felt

Revenue Department orders
No. P.161/2023
Subject: Payment of income tax according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code.
In order for revenue officials to consider this as a practice guideline for inspecting and giving advice to those residing in Thailand.
which has assessable income according to Section 40 of the Revenue Code In the past tax year Due to work duties
or business conducted abroad or because of assets located abroad according to Section 41, paragraph two
of the Revenue Code The Revenue Department has ordered the following:
Clause 1: Persons who are residing in Thailand according to Section 41, paragraph three, of the Revenue Code.
who have assessable income due to work duties or activities conducted abroad or because the property is in
Foreign countries according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Revenue Code In the said tax year and brought the assessable income
Entering Thailand in any tax year That person has a duty to include that assessable income in the calculation.
To pay income tax according to Section 48 of the Revenue Code In the tax year in which the assessable income was brought in
in Thailand
Article 2: All rules, regulations, orders, letters of response to consultations. or any practice that is contrary to or inconsistent with
This order shall be cancelled.
Article 3 This order shall come into force for assessable income imported into Thailand from the date
1 January 2024 onwards
Ordered on 15 September 2023
  Lawan Saengsanit
(Mr. Lawan Saengsanit)
Director General of the Revenue Department

Just now, beammeup said:

I think I read gifts are tax free up to 20 million baht or something like that

Well I don't know but if inheritance or gifts to spouses not are taxable in peoples home country shall they add that  on income (pension) to Thailand and tell Rd that I gave my spouse 500K last year but that was savings or was it a gift, or inheritance, or interest or was it saved pension income??????

Felt

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The new rule applies only to funds brought into Thailand. 

Thanks Sheryl. I hope you are absolutely right and that interest on savings (inherited many moons ago) that has never been touched and as mentioned placed in the home country will not be affected, but the tax man is IMO a trickster so I will keep myself updated in the coming months.

Felt

I pay tax here and in my home country, which has a tax agreement with Thailand, but the tax I pay here is on what is annually transferred of the pension the amount I not transfer is taxed in home country, but does this new regulation possible also mean that we have to pay tax on interest of savings placed in the home country and are savings that have never been near Thailand and will never come near Thailand? 

Thanks

Felt

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

I thought you had to pay tax in Thiland if you stay more than 180 days a year out of everything you transfer of salary, pension, or social security? 

 

Someone know the exact rules? I am still paying tax to Norway solely, and only transfer founds from my bank account more than one year old.

Following a link from my retired and emigrated Norwegian neighbor https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf

22 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Pure BS. Misunderstandings does not exist. The case you describe, is based on laziness to not find out what needs to be done for stay without problem in a foreign country. I call that stupidity. My opinion stands. If you can´t find out how to take care of, and take care of, your permission to stay in a country, you should be arrested and deported.

Well with your statements, if I were an Immigration officer I would send you out first. Judgment without knowing the background for the overstay should not be used by someone with the nickname "God - peace".

Felt

Is this Asean Now, tripAdvisor`s section for tourist?

Felt