canopy

20 hours ago, Artisi said:

Would you like to point out where "people" have ridiculed the cave experts

ANYONE who claims the sub was a bad idea, flawed from the start, or had no chance of working is insulting the cave experts who came up with the concept, set the design requirements, believed in it, and encouraged its development because they saw a practical use for it in this mission.These are experts that demonstrated excellent judgement and pulled off a successful mission. For someone who wasn't there to act like they know better is simply nonsense. Stanton envisioned a scenario where the sub in his words "may well be used". So please tell us how Stanton went wrong and stop trying to hide behind elon, it isn't working.
 

Just now, AYJAYDEE said:

lol..divers racing the monsoons...lol

I find it in poor taste to hear people ridicule the cave experts. I believe they did their very best. Exploring many different solutions in parallel was exemplary. In fact not many may know, but many other great efforts were underway like drilling down to the kids astonishing distances and scaling down crevices nearly a kilometer  In my book they are heroes. Even the women who went out and volunteered to fix free meals for the rescuers.

50 minutes ago, Artisi said:

So how about you justifying your continual defence of Musk and his sub-marine that was a flawed design from the start and nothing you say will change this. 

The idea and design of the sub came from cave experts in Thailand. So actually it is you who must explain why you feel you can ridicule these heroes and experts because it is your worthless opinion that it was "a flawed design from the start".

Avoiding the question is not a satisfactory response. I repeat, tell us how Stanton was wrong to encourage development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission.

9 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

as much as possible does not equal as much as necessary  

Stanton, one of two divers that discovered the kids, encouraged development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission. Nothing you can say will ever change this. So it is time you justify to us why it is you know better than this great hero and cave expert and why he was so wrong and you are so right about everything. We are all waiting.

2 hours ago, jspill said:

Looks like polite encouragement to me

Which might explain Elon's response to Stanton:

"Right now, I have one of the world's best engineering teams who normally designs spaceships and spacesuits working on this thing 24 hours a day. We are trying to get it right in a very short period of time."

"If it isn't needed or won't help, that would be great to know. Otherwise, it would be very helpful to have as much design direction as possible".

And guess what happened next?

No surprises there. The rescue team at that point had made the decision and were totally focused on executing what was an extremely difficult and risky plan as they should have been.

43 minutes ago, Belzybob said:

Have you considered that Stanton might have just been giving him 'polite encouragement' in the hope that he would just go away.

Stanton said to Elon by email: "It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible. If the rain holds out it may well be used."

43 minutes ago, Belzybob said:

You're starting to sound like a paid lobbyist.

You mean because I slammed elon and called him stupid numerous times?

34 minutes ago, domdom said:

now require Musk to apologize to the british diver

Check the wire, elon has now publicly apologized. Please do not shoot me, I am just the messenger.

LOl. not true. First, seeing the map is not for "trying to second guess" and second you know nothing of my experience nor does it even matter. Making up BS about other people makes you look bad and someone has to say it. A map would be an excellent visual aid 100% relevant to this topic. Just because you may personally not wish to see one is no reason to post nonsense about other people.

I just listened to the video again and see I had missed a crucial part of what Vern said: "it wouldn't have made the first 50 meters into the cave...from the dive start point." Does anyone have a map showing cave 5 and the dive start point? That would add a lot of clarity on what these two are on about.

8 minutes ago, carmine said:

Please explain to me how a rigid structure, nearly 6 foot in length was ever in a million years going to be able to negotiate its way through 15 inch gaps which bend into right angles?

 

Sorry to snap at you because I can now see you are genuine and raise a good question. Elon was made aware by the experts of the narrow passages and knowledge of these intricacies resulted in choosing to make a number of different submarines suitable for each unique stretch of the cave. I think this one was for the area you refer to:

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

There is a line of thought that whilst all the divers were in the cave , working strenuously and risking their lives to save the kids without any publicity , , Musk was on Television , doing interviews and showing off his toys and drilling machines and taking all the credit

Ok fair point. So when offering one's support, make sure to keep absolute secrecy. I can see this as a good lesson learned.

34 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It would seem that investors are not as forgiving as you.

The problem with your statement is I am not forgiving Elon and have criticized him here for what he said. Unlike others, I am capable of seeing when someone does something right, and when they do something wrong. 

2 hours ago, AdamBernau said:

How about this for a short answer: Musk said he (his team) could make a pod going all the way to cave 5, meaning he did not trust the one he brought to make it there. Meanwhile the boys where in chamber 9.

The "cave 5" reference was a response to show vern was telling porkies on CNN that it couldn't make it 50 meters. Elon could probably make it orbit the earth if he wanted to.

Just now, carmine said:

The whole concept of an object like that going through those tunnels is totally ludicrous!!!

  

And frankly, anyone that would believe it could is displaying a complete lack of knowledge of the situation within that cave complex.  

Development of the mini-sub concept was encouraged by Richard Stanton, British diver, cave expert, and one of two that found the kids. So "frankly" the non believer in the sub have far less credibility than Stanton who was there and made the dive himself and went on to give crucial information and encouragement for the mini-sub. So how is the humble pie tasting?

35 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

 

the kids wernt in cave 5 and doing it weeks later means nuttin

Getting to cave 5 means doesn't mean "nuttin" it means vern was telling porkies on CNN.

39 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

they only had a few days

This is crucial. Do not forget if conditions outside their control had deteriorated just a hair earlier than they did (pumps failed, rain arrival) we know the diving rescue would have been called off for good and leaving them there for 4 months was considered a death sentence. Now what? Maybe we'd have found out real quickly if the sub could have made it.

15 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Musk never showed up with his sub until the end,

Of course this is true, but why phrase it like that? Where is the hatred coming from? Musk showed up with what he could, when he could and offered everything he had to throw at the mission including having the care for the kids to show up personally. It's uncalled for to ridicule him for trying his very best after all what he achieved in such a short time. Vern is a hero and proved to be one of the crucial people in pulling off a successful mission. I am proud of both of their contributions and they both make me think better of humanity. I just don't get it why some people, including vern himself oddly, feel the need to go out of their way to spout insults at elon. I mean there were people feverishly drilling holes into the mountain to find an alternate way to get to the kids out and just because that method didn't work out didn't cause everyone to slam the drillers for thinking of this idea and trying their best did it?

Just now, Artisi said:

not sure if you are being factious, thick, or trying to be funny.   

Don't listen to me. Do your own research. What I have said is out there plain as day for everyone to see.

4 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

all of which has nothing to do with slandering vern

True, but It's been hashed enough hasn't it? I've certainly condemned elon plenty of times for it already, not need to put it in every single post. But the sub making it to cave 5 would be such a sweet video. Just the threat of it is making all the thaivisa armchair experts balking at the sub squirm with discomfort. I say game on!

26 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

I guess I am as close minded as Musk. I did not have plans to buy his products, and

after today, Tesla will be the last choice for me.

Good point. And how many people are going to invite Vern to future rescues after what he said? Up to then he was a hero, but stepping up to the mic for no apparent reason and uttering such slander is not likely to win him a lot of friends in search and rescue. I am afraid he may be the last choice for rescue bids in the future. And that's a shame because I believe he has a lot of good heroism and experience.

21 minutes ago, Artisi said:

caves are probably refilled again, maybe Musk would be willing to put himself in the toy sub and take a trip well into the cave -- what did he say " sorry I'm too busy at the moment"  -  Ok any excuse is better than none.  

Get with the program, Musk already said he will do this! "we will make (a video) of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problemo". Wouldn't that be cool to see? Elon has also called for release of footage of the rescue because he believes it will prove Vern lied when he claimed the sub wouldn't make it 50 meters. So it's just a matter of time before vern is eating humble pie. I really hope Elon does not press too hard on Vern in the courts with all his money behind it over Vern's words strong words of slander. Setting the truth straight should be satisfaction enough.

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Shares of Tesla Inc fell over 3.5 percent on Monday after Chief Executive Elon Musk directed abuse on Twitter at one of the British cavers

That was yesterday. Today:

Shares of Tesla Inc rose over 4 percent on Tuesday after British caver says he was approached by U.S., British lawyers over Musk's comments. The stock buy up added over $2 billion to the company’s market value.