canopy

6 minutes ago, tangcoral said:

Submarine video from Elon

The simulation of making it through the narrowest 70cm corridor in the caves was fascinating. They mocked up the space, added a realistic guide line, and verified it could work with divers. This was no hasty build and slap it out the door for publicity. They really did their homework and testing in their best efforts to save the kids. I have nothing but admiration and respect for all of these people.

Imagine it would have been used here if one of the kids faithful dogs was with them or any of the kids were incapacitated.

8 minutes ago, sead said:

It only needs to be leak proof. They aren't going 100m under water.

Nope, in fact depths along the cave route can be about a half bar of pressure. The reason the tube may appear over designed is it is an existing part taken from one of Elon's rockets. A very robust and off the shelf component at the heart that facilitated the rapid build.

Here is the submarine Elon sent out. To go from brainstorming to product in such a short time is fascinating and shows just what can be achieved. Even though it won't be used in this cave rescue it's an idea and a pre-made product that may come in handy in future operations.

I am afraid you just scored an own goal once again. First of all telling me I am wrong won't work because unlike you I focus on reporting what I see the experts doing so trying to drag me into the discussion will do you no good. I am not wrong for doing this and you already discredited yourself by griping at me and becoming annoyed for posting relevant, completely on topic information directly from Elon.

Meanwhile you post what? It should be clear to most people the experts pursued new options specifically because they were onto a safer, faster method to get the kids out, not to add complexity and time issues as you believe would happen in your opinion (yawn). From the guesses and incorrect information in your posts you are no expert at anything, just someone posting useless offshore memoirs of nonsense. Sorry, but it's true and it's high time someone called you out on this. Do you want a specific example or 10 to defend or is this enough?

And I can't believe you are still here picking arguments with people. For what exactly? I for one think it's time to get behind the rescuers doing a tough job today and hope for the best possible outcome for everyone.

22 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Proven and tested equipment

Proven and tested alone are not enough. We are talking about weak kids who can't swim. Experts in the field who have listened to the approach are horrified by it.

do you know...And explain how you can  

There are experts working on it that are miles ahead of you in considering these things. Listen to them, not me. I am no mister know it all, but I do know how to defer to the judgement of others when warranted.

how many people they need to operate that sub? How many more people are you willing to put on risk?

There are many brave people in this world who if called upon could safely escort these kids out they'd give their lives to try to do just that. That is what we are talking about. Safe passage for the kids.

put the whole rescue operation on hold for such a new device

When it's just hours away. More like "let's hurry up and do this now before we get shown up".

You just trying to make a fight with me

No. Just saying I fail to see how you have offered anything useful to the discussion.

contribute with nothing else than you read in some crappy newsfeed. 

You might be the only one that doesn't see the irony in you being annoyed that I posted information on what Elon is doing in a subject exploring what Elon is doing.

I read about pockets on the sub you can put waights?

There's a bit about it in the sketch.

If it was a sub, you would have ballast chambers for filling water making it even more complexed to operate!  

Off you go again.

No offenses here at all, just don't get what you are about here.

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Very important detail as you mention the buoyancy challenge with the sub. 

Important to perhaps you only. The experts are miles ahead of you on this--as usual. I am sorry if I come off impolite. It's just tiring reading post after post of meandering and speculation. It's like someone posting "hey they are making a wheel. They should make a round shape because in my caveman artifact company experiences that would work better"

Just now, KKr said:

due to out-of-air; bad air; bad health; equipment failure ?

Exactly. Could be any of the above. Which makes it even scarier for the kids.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

...I guess...Im guessing now...

And that's exactly why it's a good thing you aren't involved in this operation in any way, shape or form. I trust what the best brains from all walks of life and countries and relevant experiences coming together are saying more than anything your offshore drivel which honestly has added absolutely no substance to this thread. Expert divers from all over the world have condemned the scuba approach. It's due time some people start listening just a little bit to what the experts are saying about it. And by the way, the reported cause of death of the expert diver was asphyxiation. You never know what emergency will come up dunking those weakened kids in the water and expecting them all to behave and react a certain way.

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Risky!

Risky? So are you feeling good about strapping scuba equipment on weakened children who have never swam before and expecting them to do something that has already killed one expert diver?

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

So now you have just decided to start makig things up [Elon consulting cave experts in Thailand]

I have made up nothing. Elon has been saying and doing exactly the right things all along. Here are a few things he has said:

There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person.

Some good feedback from cave experts in Thailand. Iterating with them on an escape pod design that might be safe enough to try.

Elon has been in direct consultation with the experts in Thailand from the very start and has taken their good advice. The experts in Thailand are in fact the reason for the submarine approach. Sorry but I give the experts in Thailand a lot more weight than your nay saying. Hats off to Elon for getting their involvement and listening to them from the get go.

What don't you understand about Elon carefully consulting the experts in Thailand and then building a submarine in 8 hours and delivering it 17 hours later?

2 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

8 pages almost all of it is the typical Thaivisa bickering...

No different than any other thread. Just ignore the garbage people that become miserable when they see a good thing happen.

What has the government done since the kids were found? Pump water day after day praying for no rains in the rainy season, get  an expert diver killed doing what they expect of the kids to do to exit the cave, move in 4 months of food, hog all the oxygen with hoards of helpers creating an almost catastrophe, and praise the monks saying the outcome is not in doubt and pray to the mountain spirits.This is simply appalling to watch. It's Elon who has emerged as the first rational person that really cares about the kids and understands they desperately need to get out of there immediately with safety being the highest priority.

Elon is now building a mini submarine:

"Got more great feedback from Thailand. Primary path is basically a tiny, kid-size submarine using the liquid oxygen transfer tube of Falcon rocket as hull. Light enough to be carried by 2 divers, small enough to get through narrow gaps. Extremely robust," he tweeted Saturday.

Musk said the construction will be "complete in about 8 hours, then 17-hour flight to Thailand."

23 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Without arable land, some villagers are forced to sneak into the forest and clear it to farm.

They are not forced to do anything. It's time to stop sugar coating the truth and call it what it is: these people are deliberately destroying national forests and they won't stop and they don't care. Look at that map that shows new encroachment spots in just two years. These are not old lands. Before long they may succeed in having burned down everything. Then what? What is worse, killing a black panther or destroying the last remaining habitats of such great creatures so they will never be able to exist in the wild again? This is the tragedy unfolding right in front of us.

It is fantastic that Elon has stepped up to the team; what a heavy hitter to have on your side. The kids just got a major and much needed boost of hope for a safe return. Here is Elon's latest:

Some good feedback from cave experts in Thailand. Iterating with them on an escape pod design that might be safe enough to try. Also building an inflatable tube with airlocks. Less likely to work, given tricky contours, but great if it does.

I've been in your exact situation. Hardware stores don't have long bits. I ordered ones from lazada--when these cheap bits start to bite the wood the drill bit bends and twists into a knot and goes into the garbage. Ones ordered from amazon work very well.

2 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Then governments provide accessible and similar priced alternatives, show by example the results are equal regarding crop output and quality.....are farmers experiencing this approach in Thailand?

 

So is it the farmers 'attitude' to blame....I think not.

You seem to be a bit out of touch. You can't just lead by example/education and it all magically disappears as farmers have a change of heart, do an about face, and suddenly all at once become good shepherds of the earth harmonizing with nature and doing yoga in their spare time no matter how good it is for health and environment.  Get real. Even so called developed countries had to resort to legal actions to stop farmers from using these poisons.

57 minutes ago, Anak Nakal said:

It poor farmer.

Thailand not care about poor farmer.

Like anything cheap and easy poor farmers love the stuff. If you were to tell them they can't poison, burn, or use chemicals anymore they will fight against it. Their opinion is it's their land and they do as they please and they don't care about the environment, health, or what the rich folks think. All you have to do is look around and see them all happily poisoning everything they can. The rich are not touching this with a 10 foot pole. All I see is some minuscule protests by a few organic farmers who are just easily trampled over.

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

provision should be made for non destructive exploitation ie by collecting fruit or other renewable foodstuffs

Completely disagree. Nothing in national forest habitat should be harvested by humans. Any fruits and other renewable foodstuffs should be undisturbed for the plants and animals that live there. Imagine a bear that wants honey for its cubs but some fools goes into the national forest taking all the honey out and the bear family starves to death. Humans need to leave nature alone in the national forests instead of treating it as a free for all as is the case today.

If people want a few bamboo shoots and bananas, try planting some instead of sickening poisoning and clear cutting of all owned lands.

13 hours ago, YetAnother said:

what is the problem having these few people live there ?

If you get to know them as I have or the foresty department does you will not need to ask this question. They aren't in the forests to water the flowers or find some sort of a peaceful coexistence with nature. They destroy everything--cut down all the trees, kill all the wildlife including every endangered species (they can kill all the black panthers they want and nobody cares since they are poor), and burn the place down. This can be seen all over the north of Thailand either in news stories or just looking around. This case is a very small though significant victory for the forests. Much more enforcement is needed to protect the forests from being completely destroyed and consumed.

Foam weatherstripping applied as a sticker is not a long lasting solution. The foam will form a memory and no longer seal as well over time. The sticker can loosen and fall off. If you want that type of cheap solution it's fine. But if you want a tight, long lasting seal then get rubber seals that fit into a saw kerf. These are generally not available in hardware stores and must be special ordered from the likes of hafele, online from alibaba, etc.

Make sure the frames and hardware can support the extra weight if going double glazing.

I presume you are trying to eliminate noise. Don't forget to seal the doors. Walls and roof also need sound proofing. The result will only be as good as the weakest link.

Mr. mogandave I don't feel an M5 or Porsche are middle class cars. Does this disturb you in any way that you wish to share? Come on, we wouldn't expect any less from you so go ahead an make your case against this. It's always good for a laugh. Now I did say you might be surprised to know there are middle class people in the US that are able to buy such cars and I know a few and that's something much less likely to be the case with Thailand's middle class due to tariffs. In case you haven't noticed, there is no one but you that finds these things to be controversial and condescending and bickers about it. And it's strange how this can happen with you so frequently. So maybe you need to think about the root causes of this. And also maybe why you are here. Finally, I have brief lesson for you today. When you switch to making personal attacks it means you've lost the technical argument. And that's something others know and understand and will notice when they see it. You lost today, but hopefully you've learned this one important thing in the process. I won't report your posts despite that they are against forum rules since I think it's even better for everyone to be able to judge you by your own posts.