canopy

I just wonder what caused vern to crack. What would compel a person to step up to a mic on CNN and rip Elon a new one in front of the whole world at a time of rejoice? If it were true the things he said, that would be one thing but instead it was very strong words of slander. Then he was quick to get behind the CNN mic a second time to dish out a little more insults. Now should have been a time of relief, contemplation and maybe just a little satisfaction for vern, but instead he chose to do this. I am concerned vern is suffering from ptsd. I hope he gets the help he needs.

1 minute ago, Jasminetea said:

His company has been losing money for years yet these idiots still follow him. 

Yeah great logic. Amazon lost money for years. Look where that got them.

10 minutes ago, Eligius said:

I don't believe Musk ever swam all the way to that ledge where the boys were trapped - so I don't think he knows just how deep the waters were or weren't.

 I would prefer to listen to the words of brave divers than this self-publicist.

You will be happy to know that Richard Stanton, one of two british divers who first discovered the kids, encouraged elon to develop the sub and gave him the precise technical details about the requirements. The cave experts in Thailand played an important role in shaping the submarine approach. Recall before that the idea was a bouncy castle which was not deemed as practical.

3 minutes ago, Aupee said:

In some of his tweets he is calling the whole rescue operation a load of bull because in his opinion the water wasn' t deep

A strange interpretation. Besides telling Elon to stick the sub where it hurts Vern claimed in front of the entire world as his audience on CNN that the sub couldn't make it 50 meters into the cave. Elon responded by saying once full rescue footage is released Vern will be exposed as a liar because it will be plainly visible the sub would have had no problems making it. In fact elon has promised to run the sub to cave 5 to set the record straight and show people like vern were wrong saying it wouldn't work and was just a pr stunt. You just have to wonder why Vern started such a vicious personal attack on Elon because at this time it seems Vern is in the wrong on all fronts just telling porkies. For instance, there is no evidence elon was told to leave the cave quickly. Where did this come from? The opposite was the case--Elon was welcomed to the cave and treated respectfully by all there. Maybe it is ptsd and Vern will apologize at some stage.

17 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

seems to have worked pretty well

And thank goodness for that and good work to all the brave heroes and Vern that made this happen. There is no denying however the risks of this approach were high and a 100% survival rate could not be guaranteed and everyone was fully aware of this. Even the aussie doctors who came to sedate the kids pre-arranged diplomatic immunity in case things went wrong. It is also worth noting they say if the operation started just one day later it would have had to been called off on the last group probably for 4 months due to weather. The window would be gone. Had things not behaved just enough (like pump failing earlier or earlier rains) the sub might well have found a very useful role. Leaving the kids in the cave for 4 months was already ruled out as a death sentence. There had to be another way to get them out: surface drilling, sub, something. Elon understood this and offered his full support of everything from all of his companies that might help get the kids out safely.

8 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

wouldn't get me in the thing that's for sure

Oh, so you'd rather have kids dragged through underwater rock outcroppings like rag dolls in this contraption I presume? Rescuers were terrified in the near zero visibility water that the masks on the kids could become displaced and they would have no way of knowing it, thus unknowingly transporting a corpse. Visibility was so bad rescuers found themselves bumping into rocks before even seeing them. Just imagine for a moment if Elon suggested this contraption as his great idea. All the thaivisa people would get on his side, tell him what a great person he is, and support elon right? Wrong. They'd say no chance of working, just a pr stunt, stupid guy, blah blah blah. This is a great example of BIAS.

11 hours ago, Happy enough said:

sub had no chance.

Elon is going to run it through the cave route. Better have your excuses ready when he proves you wrong.

Why is everyone focused on the name calling? Doesn't anyone care about the actual disagreement at the heart of this which is whether the sub could have made it or not?

17 minutes ago, retsdon said:

What's he trying to prove? [Elon trial running the sub to cave 5]

Credibility. A better question is why did Vern lie about and mock Elon and his sub in such harsh ways? I don't understand it. I also wish to say that I strongly condemn the personal attack Elon made on Vern. It was uncalled for, unprofessional, and stooping to that level makes elon look stupid and casts shade on what up to now was sheer excellence in his involvement.

3 minutes ago, domdom said:

You just came with your little submarine made by your engineers, whithout knowing anything about the cave design and if it was usefull..

Wrong. Elon consulted the cave experts from the very beginning on the design. In fact Stanton who found the kids appears to have played the leading role in encouraging Elon to develop the sub and gave him crucial specifications on exactly what would be required for this rescue. Elon also sent engineers to thailand to help understand the factors that could only be understood by being there. When Elon runs his sub to cave 5 as he has now promised to do a lot Elon bashers like you are going to be eating more and more crow.

4 minutes ago, retsdon said:

So why was Musk so rude about Narongsak?

Easy answer. Because Elon's design was based on British cave expert diver Stanton who had dived the route, found the kids, and subsequently encouraged Elon to develop the sub.

5 minutes ago, retsdon said:

as everyone escaped safely, it was almost certainly the correct one.

And if someone died would it mean almost certainly it was the incorrect one? All we know is it was a judgement call and thankfully, it worked. Certainly it was risky and the chances of 100% survival was never guaranteed from any of the available options.

8 minutes ago, JerseytoBKK said:

Why did Musk have to visit the cave

Good question. Here is one logical reason. Musk like many of us sensed the danger and urgency the kids were in at that time. He went there because he cared. He thought maybe there was still something in the last hours he could do to help just like any respectable person would react in that situation. Imagine if he hadn't gone an emergency occurred, and he or his sub were called upon. He would have been tarred and feathered by everyone on thaivisa for not caring enough to be with the rescue sub but instead was off on other boring business ventures. And did you hear about the close calls that occurred during the rescue? Wow. Thank goodness for the brave divers and the kids all got out ok.

And by the way, I am willing to call Musk stupid in the post you quoted so I know when you are talking about MDS you are not talking about me. On the contrary, Musk simply cannot win against all of you with AMDS (anti musk derangement syndrome). Your hatred of his success blinds you from the truth that he was just doing his best to help the kids.

I too have to think the governor's statement was based on something. At this point I have to wonder if it came from Vern. Very unlikely it came from Stanton, one of the two who discovered the boys, and who encouraged Elon to develop the sub.

39 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Right. What a horrible thing to say about a man who has just risked his very life to save others.

Wrong. It was a man who just said ""He can stick his submarine where it hurts".

39 minutes ago, Eligius said:

And I feel gratified to see that this great diver has said exactly what I posted on TVF about Musk's mini-submarine: it was clearly too rigid for the (sometimes very) narrow cave chambers. That was glaringly obvious.

Wrong. Elon is going to prove people like you wrong and Vern a liar. Elon said: 

"You know what, don’t bother showing the video. We will make one of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problemo. Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it."

Shots have been fired! I'll get the popcorn.

While I have been impressed with Musk's work and believe his intentions were always genuine in the rescue, he looks stupid for calling Vern a pedo. However, Elon said something else very interesting in the latest exchange that I was secretly hoping would happen. He is going to show Vern is a liar, and at the same time will expose all the armchair thaivisa experts who claim the sub could never have worked as being stupid. So most of you here better get ready to eat some humble pie. Elon Musk said today:

"You know what, don’t bother showing the video. We will make one of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problemo. Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it."

First of all to all armchair thaivisa rescuers: please take a good look. Rescuers said the kids were too weak to even walk through the tunnels and sedation was needed to guard against panic. Sounds reasonable. However one poster Sheryl claimed it was crucial the kids bonded with their rescuers in a touchy feely kind of way during the rescue and this in her mind ruled out certain types of rescue where the kids didn't have this. Wrong. Another poster CGW believed panic was a non-issue for these kids because he believed in  power of the human being. Wrong.

This sled rescue system is interesting and has some advantages. But strapped onto these onto sleds I wonder how difficult it was to keep them from banging against outcroppings as they squeezed through tight passages exacerbated by water with as low as 5cm visibility and very strong currents.

1 hour ago, Dario said:

When he [Musk] came here just a few days ago, the Thai governmental people treated him like s**t, so did many of the TV bashers.

While the useless bashers are a normal part of threads here, the government treatment should be a wakeup call on what Elon will have to deal with here. I am happy for Bezos and Musk. As this thread attests, Bezos positively touches many in Thailand. And Elon did his very best and hats off to him too.

I believe amazon guarantees you won't pay more than the import deposit. I have ordered many times, happily at that. Had just one surprise so far when the truck showed up from DHL for extra fees I had to pay on the spot which were pretty stiff. I contacted amazon who were not happy to hear this and promptly refunded me for it, sight unseen. Their customer service is outstanding.

I remember the days before before Amazon when I would have things shipped to Thailand manually. Learned very quickly DHL/UPS/FedEx completely ream you, sometimes charging more to receive a package than it did for the person to send it to you. Huge ripoffs every single time. Immediately switched solely to use USPS which is much better. Some packages come in with no fees at all, but they sometimes add large customs fees randomly and arbitrarily, though not as bad as the others. But now with Amazon they take care of everything, there is no hassle or ripoff scams, you know the price up front, and it's smooth sailing to your door.