WinnieTheKhwai

Ha, I know what you're saying.

Drive the beast a couple kms up Doi Suthep mountain until you get to the first area with a stream/waterfall. Note that this is before the 'main' waterfall where admission is charged (and where dogs aren't allowed).

There are two stops, the first one is called Bang Bua Ban or some such (and usually with the most people) and then Pha Ngoeb a little further up. The two are connected though, you can walk between them on a foot path / trail through the forest.

Best of all, there's a stream and water fall. She'll think she died and went to Lab Heaven.

There are loads more opportunities on Doi Suthep / Doi Pui mountain, also way near the summit where the road seems closed but you can just walk in.

Also Huay Tueng Thao lake is an excellent area. LOTS of space there once you're past the dam. There's a road that goes all the way around the lake.

And then there's Ob Khan National Park, I believe they don't mind dogs there (not sure though). But again it's Lab Heaven

"Nothing to see here!" [sticks head back in sand]

Yup. I think the automatic assumption is that it must have been better in the old days, and of course the human mind does spin that way "back in the old days... " but objectively Thailand has come a heck of a long way, and the things that were attractive then are still attractive now.

I mean, as for the 'in my days everything used to be better' mind set of older people is often factually just untrue. Some people actually manage 'the girls were far prettier', but then when you look at some of the old pictures that are around you can see they're the same bumpkins, just with Sixties hair.

Yes they have general Chinese food as well. Don't miss the roasted duck as well, it's very good. (Regular duck dish, so not Peking Duck style)

Yeah, nothing wrong with the food at the President Hotel.. Maybe it should make the top list of best resto's in Asia.

( Oopss.. )

Um, he's NOT a tourist. Said so himself in the OP:

> I was on a non-imm B visa

That's not a tourist. Tourists are either on a visa exemption or tourist visa.

The Indian food at the Chedi is interesting, but perhaps a little bit overly fussed and arty.. I bet many people would prefer their Indian food to be a lot more basic and homey. Nothing wrong with the ambience though, and you can mix and match with other types of cuisine. It's rather nice actually.

Also Fujian at the Oriental really isn't THAT expensive, they even do a lunchtime Dim Sum deal that I think is about 500 baht or so.

I never visited the other restaurants at the Oriental (well, the bakery of course ) I think those are way more expensive.. Also I'm not sure I'd enjoy paying top dollar for Thai food. (Or pseudo Thai food, like Salmon Chae Nam Pla instead of Kung Chae Nam Pla.. )

The last conversation I had with a more recent convert to the female persuasion was about raising kids, schools, etc. (She's a new step-mum; the kid's a similar age as mine)

No broken English, or broken Thai for that matter.

Sorry.

I don't live in Bangkok but all I can say is GO FOR IT.. My daughter is at a pre-school in Chiang Mai and it's just amazing what they do and how much they learn about all kinds of things. And its fun; my daughter loves 'going to school'.

And yes there's a daily notebook that the teacher fills in and writes what went well and what not, if she was naughty, if she generally joined in, etc. etc. And they supply things like the lyrics to the songs they learned as well as other stuff.

My daughter started in pre-school when she was about 2 years old, she's now three and a half and is in K1. It's a small class with 15 other kids, a great blend of full Western kids, full Thai kids and mixed Thai/Western. And then some Korean kids as well. They have Western teachers assited by some Thai teachers.

This one's in Chiang Mai, it's about 7000 baht a month. Pricey, but worth every satang.

Falling Birth rates in India , Africa , Thailand ?

Don't know about India, and Africa is a big place, but the Thai birth rate is now so low that it doesn't sustain the population at the current level. It's actually lower than the birth rate in the USA.

Big Thai families with lots of siblings are a thing of the past.

I have another favorite Japanese place, but someone on Thai Visa PMed me the name and swore me to secrecy.

LOL, I think that's *SO* cute, when people want to keep places virgin and to themselves.

All they're achieving though is stifling word of mouth, meaning the place will probably just disappear.

Pfff. Temperature.

There's only one threat to our existence here in 15-20 years and that's the sharply falling birth rate we see at the moment. Too many people with only one kid. It's the end of life as we know it.

20. Aroon Rai

wot?!

Are you serious?

I thought huan Pen was aleady iffy to have in there, but Aroon Rai?!

Also The House went down a lot over the past 2 years. And I'm not sure about Jia Tong Heng as well; no argument about Fujian though.

Its all about roots. Roots can take hold quickly or slowly.

To stay with the horticultural theme, rooting is helped by dipping in some rooting hormone to speed up the process. Farang rooting hormone would be labeled Viagra I believe.

What we have here is a restaurant.

Does the Meridien, the Shangri La, the Holiday Inn, the Chedi, the Oriental. the Riverside, Gallery, (the list is endless), have a play pen for uncontrollable little monsters?? (and monsters is being extremely kind)

You need to distinguish between the 5 star places which by and large are absolutely awesome with kids due to having enough staff, and regular restaurants. Last time I showed up at the Oriental with a kid they did a free horse carriage trip around their grounds. Then went for ice cream at their bakery where the staff is of course completely magnificent.. The Riverside on the other hand is a big and busy place, and nobody would expect them to actively entertain kids, or keep horses around.

If you have children you have a responsibillity to keep the little monsters under some form of control.

Obviously. I think a lot of the confusion in this topic comes from not everyone being on the exact same page, with some people thinking that any kid is like the absolute worst case they've ever encountered, whereas other people who are parents know that their kids tend to behave a lot better than you average Chiang Mai Farang.. The topic of kids on planes is similarly heated, where some people seem to think that every kid will scream its head off for the duration of a flight. In fact it's only the noisy exceptions that you notice at all.

And what will they want next?? Milk formula and to have it heated to tittie temperature.............

Well, YES of course! It's probably been a while since you had small kids, but just about EVERY restaurant will assist here. You may remember that formula is a powder that's easily transported, so that the only thing you're asking is to have them serve a luke-warm glass of water. Just about all restaurants do this free of charge.

fuc_k, if you walk into some restaurants as a young single male parent the (female) staff will click into the usual mode that men can't be expected to do anything in relation to kids and will do just about anything, up to and including changing diapers! 'Thai culture & people' is the ONE redeeming feature that makes raising kids in Thailand bearable.

And finally, all of those recommendations aren't things I or anyone else would expect any restaurant to comply with; remember, with young families being on the increase relative to traditional groups such as backpackers and sex tourists, it is an OPPORTUNITY for any business to cater to a market that's becoming more varied and more mature. You see it with the tour companies as well; 10 years ago you just had a pick up with some benches in the back to truck backpackers off to the mountains. You see a lot more sophistication now, geared more to the individual needs of the guest/customer.

It's an opportunity even for a (used) book store.. It's pretty hard to find fun English language children's books in this town. DK for sure never have anything new. Again, it's an opportunity, and it's a Good Thing.

It is on Loi Kroh Road, very close to McDonald's and is supposed to have pretty good fish and chips.

Ah.. that scarlet feline I presume..

In that case it's even more likely to get kids; it's the night bazar area of course, and if there's one group of tourism to chiang mai that's on the rise (relatively speaking in relation to other groups that are declining) then it's young families.

If the parents are trying to keep the kids quiet, my opinion is to not say anything. Restaurants could be pro-active and some are great at it. Here are a few things that I have seen in Chiang Mai that really help....

1. Have colouring sheets.

2. Have a fish tank (my kids go in a trance watching it)

3. Seat the families near the doors (so that parents can quickly take them out the door if they start screaming). In the least, put them away from the other older guests.

4. Have a small toy section (Pizzamania has a small basket of toys and it shuts my son up for the entire meal).

5. Have a swing set outside (if you have space).

6. SERVE THE KIDS' FOOD FIRST (Most restaurants seem to serve their food last which I never understood).

7. Serve drinks in plastic cups. (This is not really to keep them quiet but I don't understand why a waitress would ever hand a 2 year old a glass drink. They're asking for trouble).

Excellent list. The only thing I could add is probably having tall children's chairs around, preferably in good and safe condition.

Probably a nice kid's menu would be good too, including a dessert section so the kids know there's a potential ice cream opportunity if they behave.

Some restaurants really take the 'playing area' to the next level.. Like that very big and very busy place on the Canal Road near the intersection with the Middle Ring. They have a full kids play cage similar to the ones you see at Big C and all those. They've actually contracted that out, so they charge a fee for it. Result is that everyone wins: the restaurant, the parents, the kids, the play pen operator, and all other restaurant guests...

You see the thing is, with the local tourism economy the way it is, I would think of 'kids & restaurants' as an OPPORTUNITY first and foremost on decent loyal repeat business, not as a problem. Because parents WILL return to a place that's kid friendly.

Anyway, where is the pub in the OP located? Is it on Moon Muang? Loi Kroh? You can just state the location I think and not be deported to a detention center.. ( I think )

I'm an old hand. Been here since August last year. As you can all see I know it all.

Restaurants in this country tend to have plenty staff who will fuss over kids and keep them entertained.

Mine is a model child when among people she doesn't know and enjoys it when people play with her. (At home she turns into the Return of Chucky's Bride II but that's another matter. )

I have to say we do (subconsciously?) gravitate towards places with staff who like kids.

Number #1 bar is a great example, so is/was Queen Victoria though haven't been there in ages, and the Duke's is good too actually.

(Only in Thailand where you pick a bar with plenty hookers because they're good with kids. )

It changes of course because often it depends on one or two staff members who happen to like kids. As for the OP, having a toy of some kind around does wonders sometimes. Or a 'present', some super cheapo toy that kids unwrap. Kids dig that. (Thai Airways does this for example, that's another environment where it's worth having a 10 baht toy around if it means kids don't scream their little heads off) And Dentaland the dentist does it.. Kids know they're going to get some 2 baht plastic ring or bracelet or whatever after treatment so they behave VERY well.

Duangtawan is much better generally.

And fits this description exactly: "a large hotel with a good swimming pool and close to the night market."

( Why someone would want to be near the nigh market is anyone's guess though. )

Ajarn-all-mighty, the all knowing Farang deity of Chiang Mai.

as a matter of interest why did you move from Phuket to Chiang mai ?

Probably related to WWII that was raging at the time.

Chiang Mai Pantip Plaza, top floor I believe.

What about kuay teow luk chin pla, fish ball noodle soup? Ok, Ok, I know, You didn't know fish had balls. They do and it beats pork blood. But where are the best shops in town? I like the one on Charoen Prathet, at about ChangKlan soi 3?, between the photo shop on the corner and the mini-mart /pharmacy. Any other favorites?

Well, Ong Thipparot comes to mind. They're the shop that opens in the evening and does booming business all through the night. They have miniature fish balls. It's on Phrapokklao Road, just South of Chang Phuak Gate on the right hand side when coming from the gate.

And of course the place at the Three Kings Monument. Yentafo Sa-Aad. (which is open only during the day, so complinents Ongฯ nicely) They do very good regular noodles soup with various types of fish balls as well. Yentafo Sa-Aad is probably the Mother of all Fish Ball Soups.. Can't go wrong bringing Thais there for a noodle lunch.

if you live in the Hang Dong / Canal Road area then the noodle shop near the corner of the Outer Ring and Canal Road does a decent fish ball noodle soup as well.

Personlly I'm not a huge fan of any kind of look chin, I prefer the pork stew with real meat in it. (The closer to Malaysian Bak Kut Teh, the better, so with the Chinese spices)

So anyway, that's at least two recommended places on the list right there.

Nak tok? Waterfall is blood?

Waterfall is also nam tok yes. Not sure if there's a relation, I wasn't in charge of naming when God created Thai noodles. It probably just means 'murky' (as in 'not clear') in this case though but I'm guessing.

So that juicy beef dish called Neua Yang Nam Tok has fresh blood in it?

I googled it for you because that's the kind of guy I am, and it doesn't appear so:

http://www.maeban.co.th/show_topic.php?id=2085&forum=8

No blood.