Hawkman

Could be good progress. Let's see the Reds do the same and the Government tear up the thing that caused all this mess (Amnesty bill) once and for good. Over to you PTP.

I think Suthep and Yingluck's pre demands are pathetic. Just both of them do the live debate, get them to discuss all topics; let's hear it from the horse's mouth on live tv that the Bill won't resurface and that the Government will learn from it's mistakes and rid the corruption and change the rice scheme. Likewise, let's hear your reforms, Suthep! Then come next election time we have video evidence.

The only reason she wants the election is to pass the bill through so she and her brother can get off scott free, she doesn't give one monkeys about democracy.

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Suthep did not offer 'open' talks he offered a TRAP and Yingluck was wise to avoid it

The Thai people are not stupid and they see what this 'Dear Leader" is offering

Crush him is the cry from almost every Thai I know

What Trap? If she ain't got nothing to hide there's nothing to fear surely?

You need to cut out all the "bro", "dude" talk, it sounds like you're 16 or younger or something and it won't help you getting any other support from the dwindling reds on here. Keep up the debate but keep it mature.

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If she has charges to face, she should face them, like any democratic Government would. Why is she running away from them? Only the guilty do that! If she has nothing to hide, then what has she to fear?

She is the Prime Minster, she needs to start acting like one and take on her responsibilities, and stop blaming everyone else, stop acting if their are conspiracies against her. No wonder, her Government wanted a bill to select their own family members for senate, so they can select their own NACC committees, they want everything to go their own way.

By running away from the hearing, she is only making herself look incompetent, cowardly, corrupt and guilty. But, no, like her supporters on here, she's not to blame, someone else always is.

Does this mean falangs dont have to appear in court if charged with a crime in thailand?

If you are ever charged with murder, you may use the excuse that you are currently busy with something, just like Suthep does.

Or just hide and run away and avoid all criminal charges and still use thugs and bribes to run a country, just like Thaksin does.

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Its a smart move, expose these pathetic old yellow judges for the bias fools that they are.

When the government implements reforms, cleaning up this elite serving trash should be first on the list.

So, what you're basically saying is that a Government, should be allowed to do what the hell it likes, whether it's corrupt, evil or against the law, without no meddling from the courts or anti-corruption offices? Any kind of criticism against the Government by official offices is always met with "it's the Elite!!!!". So, basically, their supporters want them and think they should do anything they like.

Wow, democracy Thaksin style, indeed. No wonder, there are people protesting, when you have Government's supporters with these morals. Sad indeed.

Out of 120 words in your completely off target post, you managed to get only one right: "meddling". Maybe you just got lucky, I don't know, but whatever perceived wrongs you think the government may or may not have done, its not solved by bias rulings from a bias judiciary, its solved by a judiciary committed to upholding the law, not upholding the interests of some elites.

So, if another judiciary finds the same cases against the Government, then what? Will you call them, "the Elites!" too. This Red Propaganda machine sure works at convincing you lot that that it's only the Elites working against the Shins (who happen to be Elites too and have many Elites supporting them as well). Next you'll be saying Thaksin is innocent of corruption and "it's all just Politically Motivated" and this is all about Rich vs Poor.

The Red side were only moaning about Bias, AFTER the Anti Corruption went after the Shins. If they haven't got anything to hide, then there's no need for them to worry, is there?

" I am here to protect democracy. If I resign, there will be a vacuum which paves the way for an abolition of the Constitution and [bringing in] an undemocratic system. I have to protect democracy in my capacity as leader of the government. "

Nonsense from beginning to end. A vacuum is what we have right here and right now. And the constitution is the very instrument that will deal with it. The constitution states that if a parliamentary quorum is not achieved by March 4, the administration folds, and the constitution takes over with the process that follows. Either she steps down now or on March 4 is entirely up to her, but after that the constitution doesn't give her a choice. What she is protecting first and foremost is Thaksin. Thaksin is the only reason she is prime minister, and Thaksin is the only reason she is staying. And instead of going to the province of Saraburi today, why didn't she go to Trat ? Why didn't she go to Ratchaprason ? Is this the example she is setting as prime minister ? Is this how she bonds with the Thai people after such unspeakable crimes against humanity ?

Great post. This is all about Thaksin. Anyone who thinks it isn't, is fooling themselves.

Yes in a sense you are correct.

Thaksin sought to modernize the economy. This involved financially empowering the farmers-- but the real goal (if the history of other countries emerging from the stranglehold of feudal economics is anything to go by) he threatened to open the playing field for 'new capitalists' (you recall of course, the hatred of the PAD for 'capitalism'- which seems strange considering that many of its supporters were very wealthy- but it was the wealth of the hereditary monopoly- not the dog eat dog darwinian struggle that modern capitalism entails.

Back in the 80s it was said that about 12 families controlled the entire economy of the country- More than any one person- Thaksin threatened that system. And in so doing brought the farmers along in order to obtain the votes needed to bring Thailand into the twentieth century.

All the crap about his corruption (do you honestly think Thais hate corruption? That suthep hates corruption?) is pablum tossed to people who can't understand t he bigger picture (like many on this board) the real issue is a marked change in the economic and political power structures of the country- the old is being challenged by the new- and that never goes down easily.

You've fallen for the red propaganda too then? If what you are saying is true, that Thais aren't bothered about corruption, why are there so many fed up to the back teeth of it and thinking enough is enough. If Thaksin wants to distribute the wealth to the poor folk, why are they still poor and he is a multi billionaire?

Why have their been so many deals to benefit the poor folk in Isaan, where the goods and money don't appear but end up with the middle men and higher? He might be battling the ruling Elite but he doesn't give one monkey's about the poor and their needs, only their votes, to fuel his power and ego. If not, why doesn't he pay the farmers out of his own pocket? Why doesn't he pull himself away from this power trip? He has his riches now, he could just walk away, but he doesn't. It's all about power and money, can't you see that? This isn't about democracy, this is about power. Open your eyes. If he really cared about democracy why did he try and force through the Amnesty bill which benefits him and prevents his party getting done for the rice scam.

A government democratically voted into power.

What is it you Yellow farangs don't understand?

If in the western world we don't like the government, we vote against them, or abstain.

Can you give me an example of a 'western' government where the elected leader evaded paying tax of billions of dollars on the sale of the country's telecom monopoly?

Just because Thailand has glitzy shopping malls and the BTS, the odd Ferrari dealership, and 5 star hotels and resorts, doesn't mean it isn't a 3rd world country.

And how often do we see democratic elections in 3rd world countries?

Also, a Western Government wouldn't produce a Bill to whitewash hideous corruption crimes, so they can get off scot free and continue to load themselves with billions.

They also wouldn't do a pledging scheme (yes, they'd do pledging schemes but not on this scale) that could potentially destroy the country's finances by robbing the taxpayers money and giving it all to corrupt officials and Governers.

Western Governments produce many bills which are voted on, some succeed, some fail. Some succeed and are challenged in subsequent bills, some successful bills are reviewed by the courts and can be altered depending on legal precedent.

Sorry, these facts don't conform to your shriveled ideas about governing and democracy. But here at TVF you have plenty of dullard company. Not surprising, just another weed.

The Amnesty bill is quite a different bill to let's say a new Housing development bill. Ok, give me an example, where a Western Government produced the same type of bill whitewashing Politicians and by doing so, all the people, just sat back and let it happen?

You really think that a Government should be allowed to do what they want and wish just because they got voted in? What about if a Government wished to start a Genocide, should people just sit back and let it happen?

I guess this conforms to your "shriveled ideas about governing and democracy".

A government democratically voted into power.

What is it you Yellow farangs don't understand?

If in the western world we don't like the government, we vote against them, or abstain.

Can you give me an example of a 'western' government where the elected leader evaded paying tax of billions of dollars on the sale of the country's telecom monopoly?

Just because Thailand has glitzy shopping malls and the BTS, the odd Ferrari dealership, and 5 star hotels and resorts, doesn't mean it isn't a 3rd world country.

And how often do we see democratic elections in 3rd world countries?

Also, a Western Government wouldn't produce a Bill to whitewash hideous corruption crimes, so they can get off scot free and continue to load themselves with billions.

They also wouldn't do a pledging scheme (yes, they'd do pledging schemes but not on this scale) that could potentially destroy the country's finances by robbing the taxpayers money and giving it all to corrupt officials and Governers.

Why on earth would she stand down...? To set the worst possible precedent ever...? To sanction blatant insurrection...? If she abandons the fragile Democracy which still actually keeps this place going.. it would be the worst thing possible...

An excellent post that puts this whole saga into perspective. The pros and cons of the PTP or the Democrats as rulers do not matter. What matters is preserving the democratic system because once that is lost it could take decades to regain it.

The farang posters in this thread and many others who blindly cheer the abolition of democracy in Thailand have hardly any good arguments to justify the judicial coup in the making - instead they rely on soundbites, a few old quips about corruption and endless tirades of name-calling. All in all their arguments are totally devoid of any intellectual or rational content. And the international media has seen right through that which is why if you want a non-biased view of what is happening in Thailand you need to read foreign media.

The farangs who live in Thailand and cheer on the return of an aristocratic/oligarchic rule to the country do so because they think they are somehow part of the elite that ought to run Thailand. They see themselves as some neo-colonial force on a par with the Thai-Chinese elite. Sadly, the Thai-Chinese elite do not quite see their farang allies like that but are happy to let the farangs stay ignorant about that. The Thai-Chinese know that the pitiful farangs ready to dirty themselves by cheering on the destruction of democracy do so only because of petty self-interest - the farangs are scared that democracy in Thailand will mean an increase to their taxes, they are scared that the great mass of Thai people will increase their lot in life which will make life more expensive for your average expat farang.

Hope you have eliminated yourself and I from those who cheer on the abolition of democracy. I would suggest that most farangs as you like to call us, would opt for a democratic, transparent and honest government elected by the majority of Thais for the betterment of Thailand. Not a government filled with corrupt vote buying scum-bags only interested in creaming off as much money as they can for themselves.

Exactly. Though I'm against what Suthep is doing the majority of the time; how anyone with any care for Thais and their country could stick up for this Government is beyond me. The money and care isn't going to the Poor folk, wake up! A huge amount is disappearing into the pockets of over rich, scared of losing face, corrupt parasites. The Amnesty Bill and Rice Scheme are all evidence of this, what other evidence do they need?

At last .... !!!

This interview will help the international media realize that in Abisit they have someone who can actually make a complete sentence and speak intelligently abut Thai politics.

This will be the first of many interviews.

You think ?Speaking english has nothing to do with being credible. I think he comes across pretty badly and weak with reasoning, any political editor or decent hard talk will rip him to shreds.get him on hard talk RT or Jeremy Paxman he would get chewed to bits.

Hes out giving interviews atm to try to deflect the huge criticism the Democrats are getting being tied at the hip with the PDRC and defending them wont help him. Had to laugh when he went into his why other countries blah blah and democracy bit.

Some viewers will like it no doubt politically astute ones will laugh at it.

I agree with your comments re the line of questioning, but, can you Imagine Yingluck on Paxman? Oh I'd pay to watch that. If he digs further into questions regarding the Rice Scheme, Amnesty Bill, Corruption and if Thaksin is really running the country. Would love to see how she'd handle the questions.

Would she cry crocodile tears? I bet. Then all you Red Shirts would lash out at Paxman. And then as you put it "Some viewers will like it no doubt politically astute ones will laugh at it" and see through her lies and deceit.

On a side note, Hard Talk, is great isn't it?

The election had to take place, otherwise democracy would have lost. However the election itself solves nothing.

There is a lot of hard work ahead; corruption needs to be tackled, the moronic rice scheme has to be ended, the abuse of the law either as a weapon against opponents or something to be ignored at convenience cannot continue, the ridiculous idea of a blanket amnesty that includes fugitive and in country criminals has to be seen for the farce it is, there needs to be a serious attempt to find a resolution of the war in the south, PT needs to create an education policy that focuses upon education not flashy gimmicks, govt policies that involve economists and not populists who understand little or nothing about economic policy are essential, all of these and more need to be dealt with a manner that benefits Thailand and not just those parts that are behind any particular party.

If not, this will just start again. The last few weeks have shown where the misuse of power leads. An election gives you the right to govern, it also obliges you to govern for all and to govern in a legitimate inclusive manner. I hope PT have learned that lesson if nothing else.

I have my doubts but I still do have hope.

Probably the most accurate and true post posted on this forum since all the trouble started.

Some good comments here. It appears the government has been the only group in this impasse to offer any concessions, and as others have already pointed out, is an elected government. Suthep and his elite backers hold all the cards because the military would never touch them, nor will the courts. If the government sends in the police, the Thais system will hold them liable for any damage, death, or carnage.

Suthep realizes it's not how many people you know but who those few people are.

When the corrupt ones are rooted out of the Govt and the criminal in Dubai either returns to serve his time or gets out of politics .... this Govt can be taken seriously.

When you say corrupt ones you mean EVERYBODY, right, including that jackass Suthep.

He is corrupt yes, most probably. Not on the scale as PTP (go speak to business owners who have had dealings with both and see which side always insists on a "cut"), but corrupt yes I expect.

Not just Suthep or PTP, the Governors, the police - it's deep rooted.

The problem here is PTP just have gone a little too far the last couple of years, some of the stories you hear, where they have completely shafted their own red shirt support for their own greed, is sickening. Anyone notice that the Amnesty Bill also covered from 2011 to now? Hmmm, what do they want to hide, I wonder.

^Same thing the Democratic Yellow masters do with their minions.

Can you give us an example?

Or have you just plucked this from the sky.

Lol at all these broken record yellow shirt trolls derailing the thread by bringing up thaksin again.and again. And again. In. Every. Single.thread.

Well it's because of the red shirts obsession with this man that we find ourselves all in this mess.

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The thing is, Thaksin does far worse things but is too much of a coward to even be in the country when he sells his peasants to the slaughter. At least Suthep has the cojones to lead the people in person. Thaksin is hiding in his peasant funded castle in a sandy land, counting his blood money and yelling to his minions on Skype.

That's because Suthep has some powerful men who sees to it he does not get arrested. Thaksin on the other hand, is fighting these powerful people. That's why he was sentenced on trumped up charges by a kangaroo court in the first place. I would say Thaksin has a lot more cojones than Suthep for challenging the status quo.

If Thaksin is innocent why did he try to push through an amnesty bill to clear his name then?

Why not get an independent / international court to look at his case? If he's innocent he ain't got a thing to worry about .