losworld

Were you wearing your bright colored "security" outfit?

Looks like a "spitting Thaksin" to me.

Looks like Photoshop to me!

I think what is happening is the police have never really been supportive of the Dem gov't and are quietly supporting Thak and the redshirts through inaction. Don't forget that Thak was once a policeman and I think he had the machine pretty greased when he was in charge. The Army I believe has put itself in a difficult situation. I believe they are still angered over the "bomb finding machine" and "air balloon" scandals that really made them lose face and look silly. I think they believe Ab stepped over the line criticizing these formerly "untouchable" types of programs designed to pad their pockets. So the Army is punishing Ab and the Dems through their inaction. No one seems to know which way to go. The easy way out for the Army would be to allow the protesters to clash among themselves and they can break it up like a good referee proving their worth and demonstrating to be apolitical. The whole problem with this is the Army is a tool of the state designed to protect the state in extraordinary circumstances and to act at the call of the Government. If you cannot control your machinery of government you cannot control your state. Not Abs fault but the problem lies in the Army itself. Best to reorganize the Army at first chance. You cannot have an Army that acts independently and on its own authority. In essence then you have military rule. Perhaps the true lesson in all of this will be that regardless of actions by protesters to create a more democratic government (not that this is happening at present to any significant extent) does it really matter if the Army is really in control in the end?

Frightening thing is the Army may very well be negotiating with both the Reds and the Dems. As per what is in it for them if they stop the uprising? What is in it for them if they create a military coup due to what they will call mitigating circumstance then stating that they will demand elections in say three months which will give them even more time to parlay a nice deal for themselves and at the same time appearing to be the protectorate of the people and the Democratic process. The big winner in the end could very well be the Army and not the Democratic process.

Sad thing is that I really believe Ab is a reformer. He has taken on various elements of corruption in Thailand and this may be his undoing. The wheels of change move slowly in Thailand but I think if Ab is given a chance he can make positive change. If anyone thinks that the status quo can or will be changed overnight by a series of demonstrations and violence, with our without Thak's guidance, they are sadly mistaken. It will take a lot of time, effort and the right combination of courageous and dedicated leaders to do this.

Most go-go's now charge 120 B for a bottled beer.

Any comment would be superfluous. Tell them, if they really want to drink out, and no problem with that I rarely drink at home myself, a bottle of Singha at Wonderful bar (corner of soi Yamato and 2nd) is 45 Bahr daytime.

Prices are going up the world over, it's called inflation. No country is immune so why should the Thais put up with lower income just so foreign retirees can enjoy living the high life on the cheap?

I spent the better part of the past 6 years looking for a place to retire. When I met people in, say, Costa Rica...Panama...Argentina...USA...etc...they all said "you shoulda been here 15 years ago!". I can't tell you how many times I have heard that. Inflation is killing everybody. Prices are up world wide. And mostly due to higher energy and commodity prices (thanks, China!!!!). And people are traveling more...especially those from the developing countries (Eastern Europe, India, Brazil, China, etc). This drives up prices for sure...

Check out these sites for cost of living comparisons:

http://www.numbeo.com/common/

http://www.prosperity.com/default.aspx

Thailand is still among the cheaper places to live. And IMHO, much better than anywhere else in Asia....

It actually has very little to do with China but rather the change a few years ago to allow unregulated offshore trading of oil requiring no delivery of the actual product (Wall Street benefiting) plus couple this with a ridiculous speculative market in commodities and a declining US dollar. Commodities and oil should not be allowed to be played in the Casinos of Wall Street. People die when these prices go wild.

I agree with what smokie said. Many times I've often been treated as a guest in Thai company and not asked to pay anything. However, on a so called "date" I always pay. But, if the woman asks me on a so called "date" then I may or may not pay depending on the situation. I never want to come across as a "cheap charlie". I've shared expenses when traveling with a Thai woman who had money and there was no problem. It is pretty easy to assess the situation once you are in it. I've also been scammed into paying for all the drinks for several girls when they were together as a group, but it only happens once with the same crowd. After that they are on their own and it doesn't happen again. I never run up a tab, but pay as I go. A few times I know I'm being scammed, but it is worth the ride and I can always say no at any point.

So, in reply to the OP's question it is really hard to say. Every situation is different and unless you know all the details it's hard to give a definitive answer.

Time to loosen up and start buying bar rounds as your Canadian dollar is on a roll!!

Interesting take on things. I'm not sure how they would get yet another genie back in the bottle afterwards though. What I don't understand is how it all was allowed to escalate to where it is today. In fact, the police alone could have thrown a barbed wire cordon around any of the protests - yellow or red - and put a stop to them in a couple of days if they'd had the will to do it. But I think the army and police are terrified of sparking a split in their own ranks if they take decisive action - so they sit on the side and hope the politicians can sort it out. I'm getting more pessimistic by the day that this whole thing is going to slide utterly out of control.

I think what is happening is the police have never really been supportive of the Dem gov't and are quietly supporting Thak and the redshirts through inaction. Don't forget that Thak was once a policeman and I think he had the machine pretty greased when he was in charge. The Army I believe has put itself in a difficult situation. I believe they are still angered over the "bomb finding machine" and "air balloon" scandals that really made them lose face and look silly. I think they believe Ab stepped over the line criticizing these formerly "untouchable" types of programs designed to pad their pockets. So the Army is punishing Ab and the Dems through their inaction. No one seems to know which way to go. The easy way out for the Army would be to allow the protesters to clash among themselves and they can break it up like a good referee proving their worth and demonstrating to be apolitical. The whole problem with this is the Army is a tool of the state designed to protect the state in extraordinary circumstances and to act at the call of the Government. If you cannot control your machinery of government you cannot control your state. Not Abs fault but the problem lies in the Army itself. Best to reorganize the Army at first chance. You cannot have an Army that acts independently and on its own authority. In essence then you have military rule. Perhaps the true lesson in all of this will be that regardless of actions by protesters to create a more democratic government (not that this is happening at present to any significant extent) does it really matter if the Army is really in control in the end?

Frightening thing is the Army may very well be negotiating with both the Reds and the Dems. As per what is in it for them if they stop the uprising? What is in it for them if they create a military coup due to what they will call mitigating circumstance then stating that they will demand elections in say three months which will give them even more time to parlay a nice deal for themselves and at the same time appearing to be the protectorate of the people and the Democratic process. The big winner in the end could very well be the Army and not the Democratic process.

Sad thing is that I really believe Ab is a reformer. He has taken on various elements of corruption in Thailand and this may be his undoing. The wheels of change move slowly in Thailand but I think if Ab is given a chance he can make positive change. If anyone thinks that the status quo can or will be changed overnight by a series of demonstrations and violence, with our without Thak's guidance, they are sadly mistaken. It will take a lot of time, effort and the right combination of courageous and dedicated leaders to do this.

I am beginning to think the Thai army is sitting back and waiting for the colored shirt groups to confront each other in a violent manner. The Army can then step in and say they are preserving peace with no favoritism toward one group or the other. They can then arrest individuals from both sides.

It's really a cop out and a show of a lack of order in Thailand but it may be a more politically viable solution for the Army and the government.

If the Army does not take action in the next few days then you can almost bet there will be a confrontation between the various groups next week and this scenario may unfold.

The next question is will this result in a temporary coup?

I think Ab has to force the Army to act and if not there must be a way for him to completely dismantle and reassemble the Army so it serves the Government in power. In many ways this could lead to a real shake up in the military ranks which is likely long overdue. Thoughts?

First and foremost let me explain I fully support any sincere and meaningful movement designed to bring greater democracy or equality to Thailand. However, I do think this is a movement inspired, financed and delivered by Thak and his cronies in order to get back the money and power stripped by the government.

Now I would like to know what the readers think is the demographic profile of the demonstrators. I would say the vast majority are unemployed or underemployed from northern Thailand. Really how hard would it be to gather 50 - 100 thousand unemployed in today's economy and offer them three or four thousand baht per month to hang around and create trouble with other underemployed and bored individuals. Hel_l you wouldn't even have to bus them in as there are likely more than this amount of unemployed from norther Thailand living in Bangkok. So the number turnout is rather pathetic.

Now if there was a March of five hundred thousand to one million this could be taken seriously. For now it is nothing more than "rent a crowd" in my opinion.

Thoughts?

Nothing like being a victim and having a "press conference" and news release announcing your adventure worldwide. No wonder so many things go unreported. I do like the idea of media coverage but surely the victim should get a choice as to whether his name is included or not.

I wonder if he received his 10,000 baht back for his next threesome?

Ship from Bkok via Thai Postal Service. Sounds funny but my friend bought a bike from a guy in Chiang Mai who had originally had the bike in Phuket. Apparently he shipped the motorcycle via the Thai postal service and it was incredibly cheap!!!

There is no Thailand if the government can't disperse a mob of 6000 armed rebels occupying an important district of the capital. No, it is not a game. It is about the very existence of Thailand as a nation. This is civilization vs. anarchy. Would the red thugs be tolerated for weeks in your country? You say yes? I don't believe you.

Good Point Jingthing, how would this be handled in let's say Holland?

It would never be necessary in Holland- people are enfranchised, well-educated, they have removed the priviledges of title and inheritance, they receive sufficient pay for their work, have more than adequate health care and welfare provision and have plenty of Heineken.

I can say in the US they would simply have labeled the insurrection as terrorism and opened fire at the airport, the inner city and wherever. Anyone doubting this should not forget what happened on American campuses at an earlier time.

I've said all along the Army General should be replaced. Secondly form two lines of soldiers/police. One line with rubber bullets and tear gas. If this line is broken or fire is returned then it may be time for real bullets.

I mentioned earlier that the events in Thailand are fairly unique and this type of behavior would not be tolerated for an instance in the West. Surprisingly some members stated that the West would tolerate mass protests and insurrection. I highly doubt it.

Although this is a testament to the patience of the Thais it is getting ridiculous. Sad fact is that its all fueled by Thaksin's desire to simply get money and power back. Additionally, its not even large contingents anymore but most likely local thugs and bored and unemployed youth acting.

I hope the reds come to their senses before the Army is forced to act.

Jerome Allaim, a 34-year-old expatriate Frenchman, still reckons Patpong is "certainly the nicest place to find girls in Bangkok" even though troop deployment "doesn't impress".

Imagine putting your name to that call .

Seriously, it takes all types

His family must be very proud. If only he provided us a photo surrounded by teen girls in school girl outfits.

work on your english... a lot of the dudes outside the 7-11 can probably spell

Getting to the question you asked...What will happen if the Reds win...my opinion is probably not much.

I agree there is a serious economic/political devide between classes in Thailand, which mostly pits the poorer farmer/agrarian class in Issan against the more urban class in Bangkok. If I really believed that the Reds winning would make changes in that situation, I would probably be pro Reds. But I don't believe that, I believe that whatever happens it will be only exchanging one wealthy group in power for another wealthy group that wants that power. So I am forced to say when asked what will change is...not very much.

I've had a personal experience in my Thai family on how poor Thais are controlled. Some years ago when my Thai G/F's daughter took her school exams (she had been quite a good student in school) my Thai G/F was visted by one of the teachers from the daughters school. She made it clear to my Thai G/F that if she could come up with XXXXXXX Baht (the number of Xs doesn't indicate the numer of figures, so don't ask) then her daughter could "do well" in the exams. That would mean the possibility of university for the daughter. My G/F's Thai family isn't rich, and she couldn't meet the figure suggested. Therefore, no university for the daughter. Now that was some years ago, and I've been told by Thais that "that kind of thing" doesn't happen anymore. I don't believe it.

All I see in the struggle between the government and the Reds so far is a struggle between two groups for dominance over the economic/political/and social class in Thailand. I know many of the rank and file Reds truely believe they are working for Democracy and to help their fellow poor and farmers. I'm afraid if they do win, they will be sorely disapointed.

But I hope I'm wrong...and some real change will come out of this political struggle for the average Thai. If I am wrong, and some real change does come, I'll be happy.

I just don't think I will be wrong. Yes, change will come sometime to Thailand. The middle class Pandora's box has been opened some years ago, and you can't put all the demons back into the box.

As for the love of Democracy, that some people seem to be so enthusiastic for on this forum, you need only to look at the U.S. for a lesson on how Democracy can be manipulated. Elections in the U.S. now are such a long and expensive process that no politician can have a hope of winning unless they have a source of money. For that reason now in the U.S. the only viable candidates are those who are supported by a party organization. And both parties, Republican and Democratic, are controlled by those who have access to and can disburse large sums of money.

Most Americans don't realise that it is totally legal to write in a name on a Federal ballot, whether that person has been nominated by any party or not...just as long as that person is a U.S. citizen who is not a convict or in prison. Most Americans seem to think they have to vote for one of he two main parties. The political system wants all Americans to believe that, because the two parties can then control the candidates selected.

Democracy, in Thailand, would be he same thing...only more blantent.

Very good analysis. The bottom line is control and if the masses can be controlled through blatant vote buying than this will be the route. If not a more sophisticated system is put in place similar to the two part closed system of the United States. The same elite pull the strings but they just do it in different ways. In America leaders do not get elected as much as they get defeated so you see silly infighting and creative differences around election time to make the Dems stand out from the Repubs and vice versa. After the elections you can see buddy buddy and they've suddenly put all animosity aside to work for the better of the country (what a bunch of b.s.). Anyone notice how close the Clintons and Bush family have become and weren't they supposed to be bitter enemies at one point? Didn't anyone notice Obama sounded like the polar opposite of Bush during the election? But now Obama has expanded America's roll in Afghanistan, Iran, health care reform is a watered down joke, nothing has changed on Wall Street, the Fed has more power, etc. So what has really changed?

So when Obama is eventually thrown out or gets his second term there will be a need for a new look unless of course he has done so terribly that people think a return to Conservative policies would be the answer and maybe the Repubs can be packaged accordingly. If not perhaps a Latino President or a female President? All options will be called on before there is nothing "new and improved" to satisfy the voters. Then it will be time to either create a crisis or some sort of Draconian measures to control the population.

Its interesting to contrast what is going on in Thailand with Democracy in the West. What happened in Thailand would never have happened in the West. This demonstration would have been put down in its infancy and by force if necessary. Democracy in the West is really an illusion. It sounds really good until it is called to deliver. And if it is not in the interests of the ruling elite than it won't be delivered. Its like an insurance policy that sounds really good until you try to collect on your claim.

quote:

It's this attitude amongst the Thais that I do really appreciate. A certain go with the flow type of outlook or "don't think too much" type of existence. Live for the day.

Yes, the majority of Thais have this attitude, my wife included, but remember at times this "attitude" can be a double edged sword.

Yes I do understand.

Yes the symptom is called 'happy go lucky ignorance'

Yes and no. I think there is a happy medium somewhere between their attitude and ours. When I look at all my friends here who are quite successful not many are truly happy in my opinion. So the balance lies between the two extremes?

you have to do things to make things work out!

ps. ive never seen an attractive thai girl living in the usa. i thought attractive girls werent given visa to leave!

This one was quite attractive... and I think from an well to do Thai family from the north. She is merely here to work and improve her english language skills for one year prior to returning.

quote:

It's this attitude amongst the Thais that I do really appreciate. A certain go with the flow type of outlook or "don't think too much" type of existence. Live for the day.

Yes, the majority of Thais have this attitude, my wife included, but remember at times this "attitude" can be a double edged sword.

Yes I do understand.

Being as how I am consdering relocating to Thailand and the current political upheaval I had a very uplifting experience tonight. I went down to a local Irish bar here in Los Angeles and saw an attractive young woman who appeared to be Thai to me. I approached her and asked her if she was Thai and we had a very nice conversation. Not only was she quite attractive but she had that certain Thai demeanor that exudes an easy going outlook on life. We discussed the current situation in Thailand and she believed all would work out. It's this attitude amongst the Thais that I do really appreciate. A certain go with the flow type of outlook or "don't think too much" type of existence. Live for the day.

I also spoke with a Thai friend from a well established Thai family and he seemed quite calm. Amazing given the sequence of events.

Am I missing something here?

Just a side note the Thai woman is eagerly anticipating her return to Thailand.

Life goes on.

Why take a <deleted> tuk tuk. They are all mafia controlled and create problems in other areas besides Phuket as well. Go to Bkok and take one and you'll be at every jewelry or tailor shop they get kickbacks from. What I find interesting is that the motorcycle taxis are also mafia but not nearly as extortionist as the tuk tuk drivers. Is this some type of long held tradition - "we are honorable tuk tuk drivers and we will ripoff all foreigners"?

Simply rent a motorcycle - cheaper and more fun. If you are too drunk to drive employ a lovely young female driver available at most bars and night time establishments. She may also supply a post drive massage.

No but I think you are smoking something.

You seem hel_l bent on starting threads about all this political crap when there are already one thousand & twelve threads running. You must be bored or trying to increase your 'post count'.

For dog's sake, can you at least post something 'different' or 'worthwhile' instead of regurgitating the crap that is already circulating?

Then why do you keep reading and replying to all the posts?

Yeah rolling a lit gas cylinder into soldiers, firing ak47 rounds, throwing grenades about town and threatening to break into and burn buildings down... yeah that is showing a trememdous amount of restraint and understanding by the red protestors. Nice try.

What I find strange is that people are more interested in politics than water. If the water situation is truly as the Thai media describes, there will be a severe shortage in the coming months. In this case, politics will take a temporary backseat until some 'smart thinkers' decide to do something about this situation NOW.

?????? Are you smoking the wacky tobaccy?

As anticipated Thaksin is prepared to send Thailand back to the stone age if necessary to reach his goals. So how does this bode for other neighboring countries in terms of tourism and industrial development? Seems to me anyone seriously considering relocating on a personal or business basis would be giving serious thoughts to options besides Thailand. Rather ironic that the neighboring communist/socialist stamped governments appear to be much more stable than Thailand's fledgling democracy.