losworld

More interested whats Abhisits reaction.

Any thoughts?

Probably why did I ever take this job. This country is pretty screwed up right now. I've tried to take the peacful route but the only solution may be to remain firm and try to restore order or this country will be in total anarchy.

Publicly no comment. Privately likely "keep the pressure on the government... fight to the death... I'll pay everyone a nice chunk when I get the government back. Remember you are fighting for the democracy".

Thailand has countless dead and injured.

Countless? Which part of 'nine' don't you understand?

Thailand has about 63 million people within it's bounds. Can you count?

I find your ability to simply dismiss the dead and injured and underestimate a critical state of affairs rather odd. I think your brain must have been frying in the protests. Best to go inside and get some ice on it. A couple cubes will likely be enough to cover all areas of your brain.

Rubbish!!!

Who cares what "a few hundred or at most a thousand paid hooligans" do?

If these dolts were serious, they would have organised armed guerilla units in most parts of the country by now.

Your attempt to create histeria is ridiculous.

Thailand has countless dead and injured... the reds have rolled a gas canister into government troops, there is ak47 and grenade fire from redshirt camps and you say I am over stating the possible objectives of the reds? I think you had better take your head out of the sand and look around before you are blindsided by an unhealthy dose of reality.

This is a key turning point. If the government remains strong and continues to restore order through the army I think you will see countless reds leaving the rally as this is not what they anticipated nor desired. What will be left is a key number of Thaksin thugs who are likely armed and instructed to wage war. I would estimate a few hundred or at most a thousand paid hooligans who will likely run as their numbers dwindle.

The true color of the Redshirts is being shown... nothing but a bunch of armed thugs playing peaceful until this moment in time. Automatic rifles, hand grenade launchers and we are supposed to believe their full intent is peaceful?

Thaksin will kill thousands to get his money back. This has left a very sour impression of Thailand.

Definitely make sure she takes the drivers course as Thai driving is pretty unregulated and most will have developed habits that won't adapt well in American driving.

1) replace the Army General

2) make it clear to the redshirts that force will be used and all those not disbanding will be arrested and fined

3) inform the redshirts that the debt moratorium will be cancelled if they do not peacefully disband

OR:

4) increase the debt moratorium if they peacefully disband

5) give each of them money for transportation home plus expenses since Thak may not pay them if they disband

6) sit back and have a beer

1) Ridiculous. The problem yesterday seems to revolve around incompetence by the commanders on the ground.

2) Won't help much, but not unreasonable, and it seems they have already done this for the most part.

3) Totally inappropriate.

4) Totally inappropriate.

5) They have already done this.

6) Drunk leaders might not be such a good idea, but point taken.

Are you sure it is only "way to much coffee" and nothing else?

Care to argue the points, or do you prefer to make suggestions that I am an alcoholic or worse?

I will confess to nicotine and caffeine intake today though. Along with a caesar salad. The bacon must be doing my head in.

I was actually thinking too much sugar with a touch of MSG.

sorry, but they probably deserved it. 3 years here and Ive seen several thai/farang fights and each one the farang was asking for it. Example: Was at a nightclub and a thai man and his girlfriend were having drinks. Farang was trying to hit on the thai mans girlfriend. Thai man repeatedly and politely told the farang that it was his girlfriend and to kindly back off. Farang didn't. Beer bottle to the head and he deserved it.

I find it almost impossible to believe that the farangs didn't totally instigate the whole thing. Yes, I agree thais have a mob mentality, but in order for what you describe to ensue you would really have to do your best to piss someone off.

Yeah I've seen many tourists that were asking for it and being drunk and obnoxious. But there is definitely a different attitude in Phuket than in Pattaya and the northeast in my opinion (and Bkok for that matter). I feel much less safe in Phuket than in Pattaya and that sounds odd but I think it is true. I have seen many a surly vendor in Phuket but few in Pattaya. I am polite and respectful toward Thais but I can sense an undercurrent in the south. Don't know why but I have noticed it.

1) replace the Army General

2) make it clear to the redshirts that force will be used and all those not disbanding will be arrested and fined

3) inform the redshirts that the debt moratorium will be cancelled if they do not peacefully disband

OR:

4) increase the debt moratorium if they peacefully disband

5) give each of them money for transportation home plus expenses since Thak may not pay them if they disband

6) sit back and have a beer

1) Ridiculous. The problem yesterday seems to revolve around incompetence by the commanders on the ground.

2) Won't help much, but not unreasonable, and it seems they have already done this for the most part.

3) Totally inappropriate.

4) Totally inappropriate.

5) They have already done this.

6) Drunk leaders might not be such a good idea, but point taken.

Are you sure it is only "way to much coffee" and nothing else?

1) and who do you think is responsible for the commanders on the ground?

2) has to be repeated this is Thailand

3) this would show the true nature of the protest and the true allegiance of the protestors

4) ditto above

5) are you saying the gov has already offered this?

6) Ab can then sit back and have a beer

1) replace the Army General

2) make it clear to the redshirts that force will be used and all those not disbanding will be arrested and fined

3) inform the redshirts that the debt moratorium will be cancelled if they do not peacefully disband

OR:

4) increase the debt moratorium if they peacefully disband

5) give each of them money for transportation home plus expenses since Thak may not pay them if they disband

6) sit back and have a beer

What is an Iranian doing in a bar ? Drinking alcohol is prohibited by the Muslim faith. It always amazes me seeing Muslim's ranting and raving concerning western morals and berating their Muslim women who do not dress properly, and then we see them come from Malaysia or Iran to do exactly the opposite. Drinking and fornicating. Ridiculous !!!!

I am not against Muslims just against hypocrites.

Easy does it... you'd want a drink too if you suddenly saw so many unwrapped women.

Certainly their was vote buying...on both sides...not codoning that at all

My vote gets bought to a degree as well with promises of tax policy or tax refunds, or offsets, or foreign policy decisions etc.

Ab didn't have to do that at all.

But...the cash vote buying was not so much as to make the elections void for UN or EU purposes. You never heard anyone say that the elections which Thaksin won was a complete farce (unlike say the Mugabe). Their were problems...no doubt, same in US with Florida

But more EU and UN complaints and concerns rose out of the Ab takeover than the two Thaksin elections.

I understand what you are saying but could not support a movement forwarded by Thaksin. He is just too corrupt. However, I could easily support a real democratic movement that favors assisting the poor and disenfranchised Thais. Just don't think this redshirt movement has much to do with democracy.

The OP has lost me here.

Thinks Ab is doing a good job but that Thaksin comes first and need for democracy comes second.

As I recall Thaksin was voted in TWICE in a democratic vote, the ouctome of which has met UN and EU requirements.

Ab came in through a defacto coup.

There is a grassroots movement (and also the reds) concerned that their candidate, voted in twice, has been illegally ousted by the military and the Bangkok elite. The Reds are perhaps just the more vocal group. Grass roots people have been disenfracnhised by teh appointed of Ab.

You can despise the reds no problem, but that does not mean that Thaksin is any less legitimately elected or that a coup installed Ab is more lgitimate. If you want democracy the people have spoken...TWICE. Intersting would be what woudl happen if Thaksin was allowed to run again, desopite the negative press and court outcome. What would all the pundits be saying if he was voted in democratically again.

Thaksin is by no means squeakly clean.....but he legitimately elected, unlike Ab.

Are we including vote buying as democratically elected?

If I really thought this was a true democratic grassroots movement I would be the first to support it even though I like and think Ab is doing a pretty good job but change comes slowly in Thailand.

Someone had mentioned that the reds were being payed something like 4000 baht but that this could not be collected unless they stayed the entire length of the protest.

So do you think Thaksin has maybe promised 10 or 20,000 baht to all protesters if the gov't is overthrown and he is able to get back his money?

It could be given to a regional leader than passed along to the active protesters.

I hope not but would not surprise me in the least as I believe Thaksin is the main catalyst behind this movement and the need for democracy comes in a distant second.

Okay how about this... Ab tells the redshirts if they do not go home peacefully there will be no debt moratorium for the farmers in the northeast. That should put some pressure on the redshirts.

I think Pattaya gets an unfair rap. Sure there is a sleaze factor but you can find this in almost all major cities if you look for it. Pattaya and area are diverse enough that you can still find a quiet place along a beach and enjoy shopping, go carting, island hopping or whatever you prefer. It really is what you make of it and the prices are definitely much better than Phuket. I like Phuket but I must honestly say I find the population of Pattaya much friendlier than their southern counterparts. I think it may have a lot to do with the abundance and friendliness of the Isaan people.

A thai friend was telling me that they are trying to hire only Isaan natives to drive the taxis in Ko Samui as there are more problems with southerners. Any truth to this?

Give it a break... let the Thai people decide their own issues outside U.S. or European influence or whatever... but of course the peanut gallery can still go on debating and dissecting the issues

I suspect something may be up and that the Army may not be fully supporting Ab or is waiting until he capitulates to their liking. I think maybe the whole "bomb detector" fiasco may have caused a lot of the upper rank to lose face and serious dollars so they are angry with Ab and this may be why he has not acted. He may be waiting until he has word from the Army that they will respond as needed. Unless of course Takky has cut a deal with the Army or they want Military rule when the chaos gets out of hand.

I think Ab is an intelligent man but perhaps not savvy enough. The time to have dealt with this crisis is before the demonstrations began. I for one on this board have recommended some time ago that the Gov't set up a special Cabinet position or post to deal strictly with the issues of Northern Thailand and those who feel they have been excluded by the democratic process. The time to put forward a debt moratorium is months behind us and not in the present. If anything announcing at this time will only feed the fire that the Red Shirt demonstrators are successful and maybe by pushing the envelope they can go farther. Proactive policies sooner would not have stopped the demonstrations but would have drastically reduced their numbers and impact.

He also now risks the possibility of looking weak having attempted negotiations with the Reds. Bottom line is the Reds are firstly a front for Thaksin and secondly a loose band of protestors looking for democracy. The only way to deal with this type of movement is to act swiftly and forcefully or you cannot hold the government.

Not sure if Ab is getting bad political advise from others or simply is unable to read the situation and act according!

I'd just like to say I hope this all ends peacefully but I am not totally confident of this outcome.

The entire market is manipulated. The traders or market makers use signals all the time to signal ups and downs and to screw those not in the loop. If anyone has seriously used level II trading they will see instances of many tricks used by the MMs.

The biggest single indiactor of how easily these markets are manipulated is the current bull market going on during one of the worst recessions/depressions in history.

And like Vegas this market is in the hands of the criminal elite.

I say start Songkran early this year! Bring out the water cannons!!!!

So 100.000 republicans occupy times square NY protesting against Obama. You tell me they let them there because its a democracy. B..it they will be wacked out of the city if they don't go away. Time for Abhisit to act!

Yes this is the ironic thing. A lot of posters seem to think the Gov't should not intervene and that this would be allowed in the West. I say try this type of behavior or taking an airport in London or New York and you will first see police with tear gas and rubber bullets followed by military with real bullets. In many ways these open demonstrations illustrate just how democratic and undemocratic Thailand can be at the same time.

^^ hahaha

Funny part will be when he buys a garbage bag to put his new bag in so it doesn't get ripped off.

He'll probably cancel the trip when he doesn't have enough money left for the airline ticket.

H

I am in Thailand (moderators can see that from my ISP) but I guess that most people posting here are not as the sheer massive amount of people who do not understand Thailand and Thai's as seen by lots of the posts on this thread is staggering.

If you are not in Thailand I think really you should keep your fingers from typing on the current situation.

The Reds have transformed into an entity which encompasses lots of pressure groups, which is they the puppet Abhisit "annointed" government is having to treat them with kid gloves, which is being exploited by the reds.

This is Democracy.

Un-Democratic events leds to an "annointed" government being put into place, one where influence outside of elected politicians put together a coalition.

The people are simply asking that this un-elected coalition government put in place by "elite" behind the scenes manouvering is dissolved and allow the people to vote again.

Thats a good thing. This is Democracy and the atttitude of some poster on here against the Reds is disturbing and disgusting IMO.

I think it is you who really don't understand. This is about Thaksin. He and his leaders are using the Democracy and Class War argument as a front. Here is the evidence and it isn't hard to connect the dots.

1) Thaksin lost billions in a court decision.

2) The demonstrations started about a week after this decision was handed down.

3) The demonstrations are funded primarily by Thaksin

4) The demonstrators are being paid to attend.

5) The redshirt leaders have already declared that Thaksin's situation would be rectified if they win this war.

6) The reds are calling for elections, but have no platform that supports democratic principles.

7) Their previous (now banned) political leaders engaged in some of the largest violations of democratic principles in recent Thai history.

8) The redshirts won't allow opposition parties to campaign in their region.

9) The redshirt footsoldiers come from regions where vote buying is the most rampant.

10) The reds are calling for elections, but have no platform with specific policies to help the poor, except free cash handouts and debt forgiveness.

11) Thaksin makes almost nightly phone-ins to his followers.

So this isn't about democracy. It isn't about fair policies for to help the poor. So what is it really all about? The answer is painfully obvious.

Precisely.