Foreverford

If you are worried about a few flies,

then perhaps Thailand isn't for you.

We do have flies

just like your home country has in warm weather months.

We just have no Winter, so you can see them 365 days.

Case by case basis of course.

No one could make one call for the many slaughterhouses of the whole nation.

Mae Sot now has a brand new sparkling slaughterhouse

while the old one it replaced was a sight to behold from the street

I kill my own livestock on the farm,

so I know the potential problems.

I have to instruct the men,

and then enforce what I told them,

because if I turned my back it would be done any sloppy way they please.

If I want the cuts to be recognizable I do the butchering myself.

because they will just whack the carcase in random pieces.

Their logic is, It's food,

you are going to cut it in tiny pieces eventually,

so how could the exact appearance matter in between?

I found it funny,

after I recovered from first being furious,

that an animal could be cut in such unusual ways,

because proper butchering is done according to the logical divisions of the body.

A carcase just wants to fall apart in an orderly fashion

It's not me doing it in the difficult outlandish way.

Never mind cutting neatly at bone joints...they have a machete to break right through bones.

My farm process is not fancy, it definitely does not look pristine,

but when the meat goes onto the ice,

it's been tidy every step in spite of the farm surroundings.

If someone was to see it all from the front gate,

they might be completely put off.

I'll eat from my own sooner than from someone else's.

So it is with a slaughterhouse.

It doesn't necessarily need a shiny roof with sparkling paint on the outside

Open air works about as well.

It's the attention to detail and speed,

getting the meat on ice in the shortest possible time.

What happens after it leaves the slaughterhouse is up to the market vendor.

Some markets have a separate room for meat.

Some of them are even air conditioned with strap curtains over the doors

Others have nothing but tables on the sidewalk,

with an old fan motor spinning plastic bags to give the flies frequent exercise.

If you carry the meat home and cook it well,

everything the fly left will be quite harmless

The other side of this answer is that the places that look darling

are not necessarily more sanitary

Consider that the most formidable microbes thrive in a hospital,

so imagine a pretty market room that isn't kept truly clean EVERY day.

You will potentially get just as sick from pretty meat as from meat with fly eggs visible.

Good News is that most meat in Thailand is sold the same day that it was killed.

Sorry I can't guarantee you that meat in Thailand would not make you sick,

but I've not been food poisoned here in 6 years,

with the minor stomach rumblings from nicer places.

At the slaughterhouse, I've seen animals that died on the truck,

or during unloading.

Soft pampered sheltered animals

who had apparent heart attack in the heat noise and cramped quarters.

Just failed to unload themselves from the truck.

One day two animals died while unloading from one truck.

The truck was contracted to a big name that everyone would immediately recognize.

They aren't separated from the living animals process,

just taken in first when the night slaughter team comes to work.

Nobody outside ever seems to know exactly how long that animal has been dead.

The holding pen stock handlers were not dismayed that multiple animals died.

It was all part of their normal day.

So would I rather eat from my messy looking farm,

or from the spiffy slaughterhouse going to a brand name cellophane package?

W.E,

Any ideas where I could obtain a captive bolt stun gun here in Thailand? I assume slaughter houses here will use these as a means of dispatching their subjects?

I would very much like to obtain a stun gun, which would be used exclusively 'on farm' when the time comes to say cheerio to sows that have served us well. In my opinion the most humane, stress free method.

Have found companies in the UK & States, however, I would think getting one brought into Thailand would be a nightmare?

Any ideas / info appreciated.

Cheers

Fruity

Howdy there Fruity Toot Toot

I think I'll get the bro-in-law on it and maybe we can make one out of an air cylinder and a bike pump or tap air off an air compressor (better). I think something about the size of cherry tomatoe would ber about right size and then have some sort of safety cabling on it so it can't travel more than 3-4 inches out of the device. Don't know if blundt ended (flat) would be better than rounded ball-like but we can talk about it mybe next week.

Interesting thing about this is when i had my hogs in Monterey County in California my budddy and I did all our own slughtering and then had the carcass worked at the local farm butcher. Man could he make sausage and bacon. Still the best I have ever had. Anywho the first litter it was time to start the process and I took out the old Iver Johnson 8 shot 22 pistol my Unc had given me (what a useless thing it was, as all hand guns basically are) to drop these guys. Now I've been on the runway of a wild charging boar in the mountains of Northern California and the boar didn't win this one but it was 102% total luck that I'm still here today but that's another story, so I finished off a few wild and domestic things in my day up to a few huindred kilos in the ocean and on land and quite a few in the air. Anywhoo again, without sounding repetitive, so I babied over one of my litlle sweethearts into the far reaches of the old barn and figured what wouold be best spot and put a "long rifle" into its skull as my buddy waited with the "sticking" knife. Well there was no big boom bang and goodbye, the hog squealed and gesticulated more than when i got it high on good old homemade sourmash that I was raising them on (and truckk loadfs of brussel sprouts) and dang nab didn't stop umntil it was compleely bled out. Like you talked about good buddy I felt devestated that I had made one of my "babies" suffer so much because i couldn't place a bullet in the correct spot (I heard the stories of guys bouncing shotsof the skulls of wild charging boars because they didn't factor that long sloping snout skull). After dressng it we were going to take it to the butcher and I decided i wanted to split it and see how my bullet missed its target. The brain of a "market"hog is about the size of an egg (and probably a lot more intelligent than a humans in most cases) and when I split the skull I found that the bullet had travelled straight through the center of the brain cavity and basically bisected the brain in the longest way possible. there couldn't be a better way to put them down with the weapon we had. This s has always been an issue for me here as i am sure the fami8ly wuill have nothing to do with this process so the idea of having a stun gun that will drop them without the wild flailing and screaming will be a good thing. peace and love and an old Ford Tractor does wear out but definitely not as fast as this old Ford operator

Hello All, from the Thai bamboo telegraph I hear the the Kesetsart U Ag show in

BKK starts on 1-28-11(for non US, 28-1-11) at the same place as posted before

on this thread. The fair/show will run for 1 week.

I'm trying to find a current link for the show info and will post if found, or someone

else has, please post.

rice555

Well done getting this out there as Ireaslly needed to make a contact and was here in Bkk. Made it at about 6:30 am (golf later at the Sports Club so can't be late) and almost nobody was open on the first day of the show but miraculously my guy was there and found the info at the other place that I needed even though noone was about. Looks similar to last year so it is definitely worth going if you haven't been before.

Easiest way to get there is to take Subway or Sky Train to Mor Chit station and cab on over for about 70 baht.

Forgot to say I have sourced some Ma Rum, moringa, planted them 2 days ago, eagerly awaiting their growth.

Also made a home made biopod for black solider fly, but so far only blowfly maggots have appeared, I have read that BSF do live in TL, just need to attract them with the right food stuff, I read that mango fruit and milk are a very good initial attractant for them but have been too busy with other stuff to get around to that yet.

Hey trips any updates for us future fish farmers forever

Best thing I have found so far is a small low energy bulb over the tank.

In the rainy season it attracts hundreds of thousands of "Maleng Mau" - termites absolutely adamant on killing themselves.

Enormous quantities of free fish food, only useful for Catfish though, Bpla Nin and Tab Tim don't eat them.

Have had no luck in sourcing Duckweed, and the Nins/tab Tims don't appear to like Moringa, at least in raw form.

Maggot growing was really unsucsessful, just too hot I think, they would grow to a few mm's and then die.

If and when the rains finally come, I will try again at growing maggots.

Cheers

I found a good source of crickets near Prachon Chai and am looking to start growing worms and them, we've used the light trick and it is a good free source of food. We need to find some source of plant that can be used for organic feed. It appears, as it is, that catfish will eat anything including bananas and the banana plant also but we need to find some kind of foodstock that we can grow to be able to raise the Nin and Tim organically. thanks for the update and choke dee maggotting

Well just got down from chasing little brook and golden trout at nearly 4 kilometers high in the mountains of the eastern Sierra Nevadas of California and headed for the North Pole and managed to fill the freezer here at mom's house in California with halibut and salmon. A big fish fry tonight yum yum (no not Tom Yam just straight up fry). What does this have to do with farming in Thailand?? Well when the Cook Inlet in Alaska has these little seas of 8 or so feet, it's not much, but when they hit you from three different directions due to the bottom, the current and the winds and rain you start to wonder if this is why you spend 12-15 hour days on the tractor for weeks on end. Alaska and sunny days and halibut just jumping into the boat is what dreams are made of, especially when you start the day at about 4am and the old lady forgets about your breakfast and roams on by at 11am and asks what you want for lunch and you say breakfast and take the 3 litres of rain collected water she brings with a glaze in your eyes you knock down one with two drags from the somewhat Fanta Orange tasting litre bottle as you know you couldn't really drink the radiator water (its too hot and you just can't stop and go back, don't go back don't go back). Yes the glacier fed Kenai River and the Alaskan oceans sure seemed sweet then. They did when I was there but the halibut weren't cooperating and it was making for long days at seas in corkscrew conditions. And you ask the same question? what? what does this have to do with farming in Thailand? Bio-char!! Of course. Hey don't go back and don't stop thinking of ways to make it all better. so here's the plan. I've got the big lake (4 meters below grade 2 above) in now and a klong (a canal around three sides of the farm) connected with pipes from the lake and the electricity is in with 660. So simple, electricity,lake, klong, water and bio-char and instant fertilizer. tah dahhh. Huh? well let's dam_n the klong and create a 2x2x40 meter reservoir below the outflow of the gated pipes in the pond. We draft from this to pump water to the large bore sprinklers and we mix the bio-char (by shovel or dozer) into the water at the point of the draft pipe for the irrigation pump. Irrigation well supplies the lake, lake the klong, klong the irrigation pump, irrigation pump puts the water and the bio-char throughout the 14 rai evenly and irrigates a second green manure crop. the alternative is to mix it with manure earth and other amendments and spread it manually a bit more difficult task and one i havven't created the machinery to do effectively or evenly. I'll be going for the "sop" tonight. That's the juice and olive oil from the platter of the halibut filetes that I'll be serving my family and cousins. Good old San Francisco sour dough french bread and butter and halibut sop and keep the meat I'm in heaven. Bring on the rains of Alaska to the fields of Issan. Forever and ever in Fords

Look at the post at "Down On The "farm" Today" Topic and see.

The dry land. low tillage system. uses the disk instead of the plow. Subsequent working of land was with cultivator with sweeps. Too much disking, especially when dry, could pulverize the soil into a powder. The stubble would protect against wind, heavy rain erosion, shade the ground, thus holding moisture longer and machinery used, required less fuel to cover the land. This concept has been used for several years and they found that it is good to plow every few years (4 or 5) just to turn the soil from a deeper depth.

Local farmers chem. fertilize, poison, harvest, then let the fields remain fallow, burn, then plow and wait for fantastic rains to plant again. They don't make much of a profit if the rains are good. If there are poor rains well..... We scattter plant pah teung (sun hemp) in the muddy muck of post rice harvest and cut the stubble over it with weed wackers. That all gets disced in when the pah teung flowers. So where the average local gets a few pounds of ash per rai we are getting nearly tons (if two plantings) of organic matter into the soil along with all the nitrogen that the pah teung has fixed from the air (79% N 21%O) on its roots. We also amend with chicken manure and bio-char. Soil testing is always a great idea and can be very beneficial at start and periodically. By not plowing you never destroy the capillary structure of the soil and with good tilth the soil will be able to receive and retain and release the rain water it gets much more beneficially to help maintain good growth characteristics in your crop. Amazingly it is easy and simple and very cost effective.

Beans or peanuts are good.

Also Sun Hemp.

If you've got plenty of time just let the weeds grow & keep cutting them back when they are knee to thigh high.

Dont burn the waste or use weed killer.

Just let the stuff lay where it drops & rot into compost.

Make sure to cut it short in the dry season to reduce fire hazard.

2 to 3 years & your soil will be much improved.

Instead of letting the stuff rot on the ground, my idea was to use the discs to mix the beans (or other suitable plants) with the soil.

Contact your local Land Development Office. They have free seeds for green manuring and will work out at what rate you should be sowing.

Actually there are a lot of government departments / royal projects that give away a lot of stuff for free.

I'm in my second season of using Pah teung (sun hemp) as a green manure and this year was the best for one particular reason. When the rice crop was finished we went in with weed wackers and cut the stubble and broadcast the seeds in the rice mud and and cut straw. Application rates can be lower than 10 kilos per rai but more will facilitate more dense growth and occlude weeds from growing, a huge advantage. Remember to be sure you have some form of animal manure in your land (either by applying specifically or having cattle and kwai or chickens grazing) to introduce the micro-biotic life that is necessary for the legumes to fix nitrogen from the atmosphere, get it in once and you won't need to worry about it again. Our first planting was minimal on part of one 18 rai plot due to the lack of seeds (we now have a large stockpile). The family was planting as I was tractoring and when i asked them their application rate they couldn't say. I then had them stake off one rai perfectly square and we planted it scientifically (calculated amounts - 15 kilo per rai half in one direction over the entire plot and half the seed in the other direction). As expected that square plot shined with lush good growth as the other areas were a bit spotty with some voids. we finally got a few tons of seed and I chose to disc the entire 18 rai, though it was a bit early (no flowering). We then replanted the entire plot (half scientifically and the other haphazardly). The scientific was perfect and lush, the other not so. But... the "not so" had my original square plot and to the locals and family's amazement, the pah teung in the old square plot was growing much faster and was much more green and lush. there was no comparison throughout the entire plot, the square area that had the first planting produced much bigger and healthier plants than anywhere else on the plot. It all was disced in when it flowered and eventually we planted rice on it this year. The story is the same the square plot shows much vibrant healthier and bigger plants, a very true success story. Also note that we didn't burn any straw and it was incorporated into the soil to add tons of organic matter. the soil was a white clay that had been chem'd for a while before and all the plots around it have that white hard clay structure, this plot has started turning a lovely brown color and the tilth is improving nicely.

Of note: SESBANIA ROSTRATA known as Sanoh Africa or snow africa has been mentioned as a good green manure. It can be, but it is very long germinating like weeks or months and if introduced to a rice setting it can thrive if allowed to seed. There is a green manure section in the "Organic" section of "Farming" at the top section of "Pinned" subjects it is extremely helpful and thorough. choke dee and forever with a Ford

We're near the Surin-Cambodian border of Buriram and usually it is very very dry compared to all the other areas but this year there has been enough rain to facilitate our rice crop. We have abandoned the transplant method of growing rice and removed the small levees and levelled the land and scatter seeds and till with the tractor. In a good rain year this is much more profitable due to the lack of labor costs. In a bad year (with no late rains) the loses are minimal compared to the transplant method for the same reason. I've been away for a while but the wife has said so far decent rains but nothing like everybody wants with good flooding of the lands. Our farms are in varying stages of going organic and the most advanced is thriving while others nearby are not doing as well in the non-ideal conditions. We do not plow anymore, just disc and that allows the earth to accept all the rain that we are getting much much better. Choke dee

You can't please all the people all the time or something like that... but really you may not be able to get 8 rai perfect the first year or two but we are suggesting a way that you can eliminate your problem and improve the land (the alternative to spraying lots of poison). The hemp grows very fast at it appears the jack beans do also (I have no experience with the jacks). If you can clear a small area and plant the seeds I think you will be better off, as the cover crop will grow quickly and occlude some of the nasty plant seeds from germinating. Discing can be the preferred method of incorporating the green material into the soil as it will help increase tilth and give you another seed bed to continue green manure planting. When you cut you will give some weeds an opening to thrive. Plant your entire plot with the cover and each time try to concentrate on a small area to experiment in different methods of the process. If you can till (by any manner) some of your orchard you will see if this is an effective way to eliminate your unwanted weeds. The best solution will probably be a combination of methods, mulch, green manure and manual weeding or tilling in problem areas. The key, as you know, will be to keep the most pernacious of the nasties from seeding so be attentive to the plants cycles and probably invest in a good weed wacker and don't give up the hoe. Choke Dee

Use sun hemp (pah teung) as a ground cover. It will help occlude other weeds from growing up and then seeding. Disc it back into the ground when then flowers start to appear and plant it again. To benefit the most scatter some manure in the area (if there haven't been cattle or kwai on the land before you planted your trees) so then the hemp will take the nitrogen from the atmosphere and fix it on its roots. when you disc it in you will have a terrific source of necessary nitrogen for your trees. It grows extremely fast and germinates very easily. Depending on different factors you will need to cut it or put it under in a few months time. been using it on the rice farm and it has eliminates a bunch of unwanted guests. Rice straw is a very inexpensive and abundant form of mulch that you could use to mulch with but probably won't be available until after harvest now. Choke Dee

ok. i am now deleting the tirade between both of u (token and foreverford)... please act like adults... keep the discussion, which could be interesting, to facts, figures and information from both sides of the coin: organic or not...

namecalling, flaming, derailing the thread will result in suspensions and warnings.

bina

the gist of deleted response was that I think we have been conned as i don't believe that Token is real but someone's idea to play jokes on people just to get reactions from hard working farmers. I finally got it and it made me laugh to know I had been made the fool and i can laugh at myself with no problems. As i said in my deleted post previously, I'm not going to waste my time responding to any more posts in this link as it is obvious now with the repetitive nature of the token poster that we have been played as fools for a joke. I don't feel my post was offensive and also thought that it was somewhat witty at times but one's person's joke is another's....The "namecalling" was an interesting twist on words and I felt I responded very much like an adult but definitely like one who needed to make his point in no uncertain terms. I don't take kindly to being censored or called a liar and to delete my response when the post accuses our entire way of life of being "Lie And A Con"

is quite inflammatory in its essence. If the entire post was reread you will see that I have responded with helpful and detailed facts throughout and it was by these that i felt that we were all being played for a jokle. In that spirit I finished a somewhat lengthy response with some levity now it is gone forever as I didn't save it. I will agree with Bina in that I don't approve of namecalling especially when I am being accused of being a liar and a thief and even childish with my time. I am none of these and will continue to take offense to anyone who feels such. as stated before i was played the fool once too often here and i will not be the fool again and respond to this link. I think the regular contributors to this may somewhat understand my position. as I said in my previous post and this is a quote " Ayukka yuk yuk" It doesn't sound as funny as my previous post.

You can't beat Pah teung. It will start to germinate in about 6 hours if you put a bag of it in warm water (make sure it is only a half bag as it will swell a bunch and don't pre-germinate it too long or it will split). It should be planted in soil that has had manure in it previously or get some manure into the soil when you plant it. That will ensure that you will have the microbiotic life to guarantee that it will be able to fix nitrogen from the atmosphere (79% of air is N) on its roots. By incorporating it into the soil at the flowering stage means you will get the benefits of the green manure from the plant and also the highly available nitrogen from the root nodules. It is so satisfying to grow because even without any pre-germination you can just scatter the seeds and it germinates fast, grows fast, occludes weeds, is easily incorporated into the soil and is very beneficial to the soil. You can see much more info on this if you go to our pinned topic in the organic section (click on the top of the page on the farming forum) and look for "green manures". I have about a ton of seed or so if you need a bit and can't find any. Hopefully next year I'll be able to supply more quantity. As CM4ME said it can be available for free from the Ag dept in some quantities (Like almost 20 - 50 kilos) if they have some, many times they don't but is worth a try.

Mr. Ford, I actually do grow habanero peppers & tomatoes year around because I like to eat them year around. The stuff from the market does not do it for me.

I was in India & Nepal a couple of month ago, picked up some interesting seeds including real spinach that actually grew in the hot Buriram weather !

We will see how the Nepalese & Indian tomatoes do on the taste scale, Plants are now about a foot or so tall.

As for future projects, not much room for expansion. I am looking to build a new "wood burning" pizza oven. I have some interesting blueprints but I can never find the time to do it. ( wife bakes bread and makes a real mean thin crust pizza )

In addition to the gardening you guys know about we are actually real farmers growing mostly cassava and rice on about 160 rai.

I have a small mango farm ( 300 trees ) which I tend myself. I do all the pruning and spraying, pick & sell in the season.

Other than that, we grow a little avocado, grapes, dragon fruit, dates, sweet star fruit,

oranges, lemons, limes and yes figs.

Recently I picked up a couple of seedless tangerines trees like the ones on sale around the Chinese New Year.

All this and much more keeps me busy, weeks just fly by and that is how I like it.

Best regards.

right on dogger guy it sounds like you have created a bit of paradise with the variety of goodies you have growing. I've also got some of those tangerines (oops I don't think they are seedless) to plant this year, I think they should be called "thirties" because that is about how many fruity and I eat daily when in season. I'll get you some of the Pasilla Chile seeds when I get back in Sept and would love to see your place. Choke Dee

The topic is a philosophical one that intrigues me. The meaning of life may well be the number 42, but I'm way past that hence personally irrelevant. What are we doing here and what are we attempting to prove? So lets leave our Thai and probably better halves to one side for a moment.

If I go back in time, back to when I was just another comfortable member of "my" society. No cultural differences for me, just for all the immigrants in Australia, learn English you freeloaders. I attended a lecture from an American guy in maybe 85.This guy said there are only two ways people are motivated. Fear of Failure or Thrill of Success.

So what is each of us trying to change, ourselves so we can enjoy our dreams, or Thailand so we can realise our dreams? Maybe some of us just enjoy dreaming.

This ultimately makes my brain hurt and I hopeful can revert to FEF to lead us to the path of enlightenment.

A tired and emotional

Isaanaussie

Let it flow good man. tired and emotional is the opposite of dead and lazy. I know what you like. The wind has picked up at Pebble Beach down the coast and the bad boys are trying to put the US Open jug on their mantle. Hit em low and watch them go. never fear unless your loathsome on the way to Vegas. Plenty of thrills will create a few spills never go back never go back Forever Forward Fords never go back

The topic is a philosophical one that intrigues me. The meaning of life may well be the number 42, but I'm way past that hence personally irrelevant. What are we doing here and what are we attempting to prove? So lets leave our Thai and probably better halves to one side for a moment.

If I go back in time, back to when I was just another comfortable member of "my" society. No cultural differences for me, just for all the immigrants in Australia, learn English you freeloaders. I attended a lecture from an American guy in maybe 85.This guy said there are only two ways people are motivated. Fear of Failure or Thrill of Success.

So what is each of us trying to change, ourselves so we can enjoy our dreams, or Thailand so we can realise our dreams? Maybe some of us just enjoy dreaming.

This ultimately makes my brain hurt and I hopeful can revert to FEF to lead us to the path of enlightenment.

A tired and emotional

Isaanaussie

I believe that what motivates me is "learning and understanding" so in the context of the two reasons above that would probably fit into "Thrill of success" . Learning and improving oneself, I believe is a key element of Bhuddism, so maybe that is what I like about Thailand. The fact that out in the countryside I am not "regulated by government rules" ,such as over here, and that allows me to do things to enhance my understanding. Not only practical and physical aspects of our everyday life but also how people interact in a society that is not the same as what I am used to so that frees me from learned and ingrained biases.

One of the main things I learned when I returned to school and University as an "old" man was that what I intuitively thought was not always correct and at times I needed to let the numbers and physics do the talking. This then leads to having the practical understanding to be able to apply the theoretical solutions

One of the most interesting things I was involved with was working on measuring the energy contained in an explosion using variations of material within the explosive. This was done by measuring the bubble energy created when the bomb was detonated underwater. So some people might describe what we were doing as "blowing bubbles" absolutely great fun. Over many years I used explosives as an underground miner but then to be able to learn the theory behind explosives was fantastic.

If I am able to live in Thailand for the rest of my life without having to work for someone else then to me it means that I will be free to explore what interests me not my boss. That to me is "living the dream".

Wow and Yeehaa "One of the main things I learned when I returned to school and University as an "old" man was that what I intuitively thought was not always correct and at times I needed to let the numbers and physics do the talking. This then leads to having the practical understanding to be able to apply the theoretical solutions" You got to love it. Right on and left off. too too good never go back never go back

Just a thought for Mr. Ford,

Around here we have this mango trees called " mamuang galon", older very large trees .

The fruit is about the size of a soap bar, the odd thing is, we eat them together with the skin.

It's deliciously sweet & sour. The skin has light vegetable flavor, blends nice with actual fruit.

You will be hard pressed to find it in any market unless some grandma needs pocket money.

We just wait for the fruit to fall down, than collect it & eat it.

Older people eat it with rice, no ill-effects whatsoever !

Best

Thanks Doggeroo but for me a monster Kent from my Baja farm was as fine or even finer than the home grown apricots I grew up on. Bigger than a grapefruit and golden glory with the fragrance of the gods. All just memories now but enough so that I don't want to eat or try to eat any others. I don't think I would have problems with that variety as i have eaten some green mango before by mistake with no bad results. hey a little side line, in California you can buy organic Baja Mexico cherry tomatoes year round and they won't compare to some of your heirloom varieties of beefstakes but wow each little critter is a explosion of flavor off the vine from your back yard. we need to get some new varieties going here that could eventually be a new commercial variety in the country. I'll be bringing back a bunch of seeds this trip and have my scouts out in Mexico for seeds for the monster Pasilla Chiles that we use to make chile rellenos the good variety goes for nearly $1000 a pound. I'll try to mail them out to as many folks as need them when I get them and get back. Boy would i love to see them easily grown here.

With the Ford out to pasture and my golf bag over the shoulder and filled with clubs and fishing gear sure as your born, natural, I'm on the road again.

Broad spectrum weedkiller:

Hey Doc

You definitely posted the oldest broad spectrum killer and proven for most plants. For the pernacious nasty bad boys a friend has had great success with a natural herbicide made with cloves and vinegar. I'll have to get the formula but I'm sure it is something like put a bunch of cloves in vinegar and wait a while and then go kick butt. Though that appears slightly vague, so let me get the formula and post it in a day or two. He says it is extremely effective and even kills that nasty bermuda grass.

good luck Liker I am in the US for a week now and my nose has dried up and my skin is starting to crack also and dry out. really didn't realize how much the humidity helps the ol human body. Hopefully someone will be able to dial you in for your plant request as it would be good knowledge to have and good n your house. Good luck with the rains we have been lucky throughout issan to have the little bit that we got as they were predicting a very late and poor rain season due to the El Nino in the mid Pacific Ocean. Mid June was the prediction of the first good rains originally. sooooooo Choke dee

Hey Brahm buddy was it is? It really sounds like chopping time out your way. I'm in the US at the moment but there is a fellow that has nearly wine size avo's from some Hawaiian seeeds via Samui. I'm sure we could get some cutting and get those monster avo's grafted and starting to fruit. Are your trees all from the same seed source, same variety of avo. Do you have any hass? any hass from the US? Let's get it together in late Sept. later got to go FFFFFFFFFFords forever

Thanks lads....

I think I am actually in farming nursery !!!

There is im sure a massive difference as you described between renting and buying. Im not sure If I would have ever actually spent the million baht it was more just a figure thrown out there. But for sure now Ill rent for the first 2-3+ years until I am comfortable.

I paid 35k/rai. Is this reasonable ? The land borders a river which runs throughout the year, I saw it in March/April there was around 3-5 ft of water flowing. There is also 3 of those large fish dams which am not sure if id ever use. From what I was told by the thai;s who were farming the land was that I would get 9,000baht/rai from the Sweetcorn which isnt too bad. Figure in the cost of planting/ploughing/fertiliser/harvest etc you might get 5-6000baht/rai profit.

Seems ok. It does seem expensive at 25% for repairs. Good to know this. Plus I would am guessing have to build a shed to store it and yes I can see the list going on and on and on. So for sure renting seems like the way.

Cheers

Joker

Just as a little joke in deference to your name, well maybe not a joke, but anywho and how here we go.

My tractor in Monterey County California (late 1970's) was just like a mule or my goats it stayed on the farm in the rain or shine no shelter. I was picking up an old 8N in San Jose when I found another guy who asked what I paid. I told him 2000 and he said hel_l I'll sell you my 5000 for $2,500 and it's got a loader. My 8N was a 1949 and i eventually sold it for what I paid for it and it still today is worth between $2-3000. I bought the 5000 in the wettest year ever there (almost). this guy had a farm outside Pescadero near the Pacific Ocean and the middle of his farm washed away with the over-flowing creek. When he found his barn and outbuilding and all his tractors half way down in the creek one morning the only thing that he could get started was that old 5000 and with the loader he was able to pull all the rest of his tractors and mess out of the creek .

end of story that tractor stayed out in the elements, no roll bar no canopy, and every time i got on it and hit that start button it would fire up on the first crank, you would never have it turn over once or even two or three times like a Dodge car. BANG like a good gun when you pulled the trigger or hit the starter it was boom baby boom shakala. Forever For Fords

Hey thanks for the comments Mr Ford. The land is in phetchabun but we live in Pattaya. Im thinking the 90 HP Ford should be enough. The land is not really suitable for Rice and apparenlty Sweetcorn is there thing up there.

I was thinking of buying more due to the costs in renting and long term it would be more suitable to buy instead of wasting money on rental, though at least with rental you have no spare parts to buy I guess.

Do you know how much they would charge per Rai to plough/plant etc...? Vague estimate's would be good.

Am thinking a used 2nd hand Ford would be good enough as long as it passes an inspection plus I would need a few 2nd hand ploughs etc to do the work.

I was thinking that you would or could actually make money on renting your tractor out.

Thanks for you help.

Joker

Joker,

I strongly advise that you start by hiring, for two reasons. Firstly look at the tractors being used, their fuel usage and implements used, time taken to achieve each step etc... then do your maths for the work on your own land. How many days/hours would the machine be used for your own stuff? Don't forget FEF's R&M budget of 25%. Your need to justify the purchase and ROI with that information IMHO.

As far as hiring it out I have nothing to add to FEF's comments on multiple drivers etc... other than don't! Just look at how most Thai farmers treat everything they use, wrong tool for the wrong job in too many cases. If it doesn't belong to them, Mai Pen Rai, which means Stiff Manure for your tractor.

Real example from two days ago, my Iseki used borrowed by the BIL. I had just had it serviced and some work done on the hydraulics. The hydraulic pump failed within a hour. "Mai Pen Rai, tractor old already!" said BIL who had started the day pulling down a tree with a chain connected to the rear of my plough.

I was going to plough in my rice yesterday so I had to hire a local guy to do it. 13 Rai Done in a day total cost, tractor (plough then rake), three guys broadcast sowing seeds plus supervisor, breakfast and lunch supplied was 3,750 baht.

I will get the tractor fixed but will limit the usage. Based on experience of the last few years would I do it again? No, watch and learn more first. Currently the hiring price is tumbling as more Thai farmers are buying tractors. Here ploughing costs 200THB/Rai. In 2008 that figure was 300 Baht.

Isaanaussie

Well dare you go Scotty as someone said earlier in regards to a Tata truck. He said never ever buy one and said why and you won't see me making that mistake. This link will probably go dead as ol' Issan Aussie dialed you in as perfect as it could be said. You have to love this site. A guy like you could blow a million on a tractor and be in a situation in less than a year to need to put another 1/3 of a million to get it in shape to sell for 3/4 of a million before you dump further money into it. this is a game (farming) that 50 year veterans lose at time and again because it is so difficyult (rise prices down 25% and probably going lower). tractors have been the downfall of so many farmers it is amazing buying the big turbo-charged 300 horsepower 8 wheel drive bad boys and missing a bunch of rain and someone getting hurt and med bills and then the monthly pAYMENTS TO THE TRACTOR shop and no crop for another year and more payments to the tractor shop and a busted axle on the old one with the hydraulic pump just a bout gone. This happens to people who lived with tractors and their use and repair.

Hire out for at least two years and ddon't worry what the in laws say just study the machine the implements the time and cost and then if you want to buy do so with the knowledge that at least you are out of farming kindergarden and are going to apply to farming high school, you'll know the names of the tools to maintain the machine learn the implements names aand uses and see what you find out about the different tractors. Remember same tractor different operator and a world of difference. Also a too small of a tractor will never even come close to the efficiency and quality of using a tractor at least big enough or bigger. Forget what I have just written and reread Issan Aussie he's got it spelled out for you perfectly. don't make a mistke way too many have done before. Do you mandatory homework and study the operation then make your choices. Choke dee watching a Ford work Forever.

FEF,

Man you are amazing.

I have a solar furnace hooked up for hot water to the bathroom. If I'd known it was going to be so efficient I wouldn't have bothered with the demand HW unit which is now almost permanently off. It consists of a 1" PVC feed pipe on an external wall pointing due west.

Isaanaussie

How many feet of pvc do you have exposed to the sun. I really don't think there is enough uses for the amount of hot water my simple and small system will create, especially if I put a 50 gallon collection tank that can be operated daily with manual valves.

Trying to find out what are the next projects for everyone's future dreams. This is not like "Down on the Farm" as that is dreams accomplished and moving on.

I guess everyone would like to find Jandtaa back on the Forum. Choke Dee to you wherever you are.

I'm looking to start to raise and use worms and crickets for organic fish and frog and duck food.

At the family home build an area for the worms, crickets, compost, tomatoes and other rain delicate plants and an outside kitchen and bar-b-que that is under permanent cover made with steel supports and clear fiberglass roofing. Above the roof in one section (for below shading also) will be the solar water heater. (come on Soidog the time has come for you too, year round tomatoes!! you are the inspiration for this one) approximately 15x10 meters and 4 high.

Build a solar hot water heater with a steel box and a single roll of 3/4" HDPE black plastic water pipe with two male 1" ends heat welded on inside of the box and covered in a sheet of glass. Eventually a storage tank will be added.

Water system on the farm with a 4" mainline bisecting the 14 rai. A large approx 40 horse pump for irrigation and flood control for the farm's pond and Klong.

Get the waterways infested with fish, frogs and ducks.

off season corn, pumpkins and beans in the rice fields.

These are for the coming year

Thinking of buying a tractor / parts for the wife help her with the Sweetcorn we plan to grow...

More than likely will be hiring out the tractor while im away at work...

If you had a million baht to spend would you go for a brand new one or good 2nd hand one plus all the spare parts etc knowing that there will more than likely be a high turnover of people driving it...

We have around 70 Rai.

Any thoughts would be good.

hey jokerman it's always good to say where you are from in regards to your farm. Having only sweetcorn to grow on 70 rai could require a cultivating tractor but if you forego this and only use a tractor to prepare for planting and then use hand labor for the cultivation then you will b e able to have many tractors to choose from. If you are having "many " people" driving it then I, and many others, would recommend that you hire out and have someone else do your work until you could be able to be hands-on observing your tractor doing its work. There are a million reasons that have repeated themselves a million times here and I'm not going into them. that said, a used Ford 6610 is probably your best buy. Nowhere are parts and qualified repairmen available like in Thailand with a Ford. they are cheap also, very very cheap for parts. If you are needing a tractor when the big rice preparation for planting isn't going on you will be able to find plenty of folks in Fords or most probably Kubotas that will be available to prepare your soil. In the long run you will be miles ahead as far as money is coincerned (yes, the family won't have the status of having a fine old Ford sitting in the front yard but you will still have 990,000 baht on hand to assist them in other ways. Again, if you hire you tractor out for outside work you will be quaranteed, new or old tractor, to start losing money and buying tons of spare parts big time, especially with multiple drivers.

When you get settled here semi-permantly and have seen the process for tractor work then you can inquire again as to what is a good buy for a tractor for your situation (and try to be specific in the use that you have used your rented tractors). who knows by then India might be making something to rival the old Fords. the Tata trucks I've seen look mighty nice and I've seen some very complete basic tractors to 60 horse that look like they could do the job (just not for a long time) for very low prices, maybe they will get it together to have the dependability and endurance that Fords have shown over the last 75 years. I've owned 4 different ones and they are all still truckin' with a total lifetime of well over 200 years. I know for sure that in that time that they have operated that there has been less than 25% of their total cost spent on repair parts excluding normal maintenance things. For ex: the entire front wheel bearing assembly, inner and outer bearings, races, seals and grease, take out old,back in with the new, I delivered the entire front "hub and spindle" to the shop and the cost was about 25 Euros for a Ford 6610 wich is a very big 90 hp tractor. when it is time to sell you will always get what you paid for the tractor or more if you keep it in good shape and buy it right. choke dee and you surely know it is Fords Forever

Thinking of buying a tractor / parts for the wife help her with the Sweetcorn we plan to grow...

More than likely will be hiring out the tractor while im away at work...

If you had a million baht to spend would you go for a brand new one or good 2nd hand one plus all the spare parts etc knowing that there will more than likely be a high turnover of people driving it...

We have around 70 Rai.

Any thoughts would be good.

hey jokerman it's always good to say where you are from in regards to your farm. Having only sweetcorn to grow on 70 rai could require a cultivating tractor but if you forego this and only use a tractor to prepare for planting and then use hand labor for the cultivation then you will b e able to have many tractors to choose from. If you are having "many " people" driving it then I, and many others, would recommend that you hire out and have someone else do your work until you could be able to be hands-on observing your tractor doing its work. There are a million reasons that have repeated themselves a million times here and I'm not going into them. that said, a used Ford 6610 is probably your best buy. Nowhere are parts and qualified repairmen available like in Thailand with a Ford. they are cheap also, very very cheap for parts. If you are needing a tractor when the big rice preparation for planting isn't going on you will be able to find plenty of folks in Fords or most probably Kubotas that will be available to prepare your soil. In the long run you will be miles ahead as far as money is coincerned (yes, the family won't have the status of having a fine old Ford sitting in the front yard but you will still have 990,000 baht on hand to assist them in other ways. Again, if you hire you tractor out for outside work you will be quaranteed, new or old tractor, to start losing money and buying tons of spare parts big time, especially with multiple drivers.

When you get settled here semi-permantly and have seen the process for tractor work then you can inquire again as to what is a good buy for a tractor for your situation (and try to be specific in the use that you have used your rented tractors). who knows by then India might be making something to rival the old Fords. the Tata trucks I've seen look mighty nice and I've seen some very complete basic tractors to 60 horse that look like they could do the job (just not for a long time) for very low prices, maybe they will get it together to have the dependability and endurance that Fords have shown over the last 75 years. I've owned 4 different ones and they are all still truckin' with a total lifetime of well over 200 years. I know for sure that in that time that they have operated that there has been less than 25% of their total cost spent on repair parts excluding normal maintenance things. For ex: the entire front wheel bearing assembly, inner and outer bearings, races, seals and grease, take out old,back in with the new, I delivered the entire front "hub and spindle" to the shop and the cost was about 25 Euros for a Ford 6610 wich is a very big 90 hp tractor. when it is time to sell you will always get what you paid for the tractor or more if you keep it in good shape and buy it right. choke dee and you surely know it is Fords Forever