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Foreverford
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Sorry to get a bit nerdy, but you did ask! The Mango is related to Cashew, Pistacio and poison ivy. The sap of Mango is an irritant, some people more than others like with most irritants. Whey you pick a mango if you let the sap get on the fruit it will leave a mark known as sap burn. These properties don't continue to the fruit, its just the sap. The fruit is like a giant vitamin pill. The shell of cashews is toxic with the same chemical as poison ivy, but the nut is OK if properly prepared to make sure there are no traces of the toxin.
There are over 70 identified species of the genus mangifera, and the normal mango is Mangifera indica which is highly cultivated ( for around 4000 yrs). All of the others or even the primitive form of common mango could be called wild mango and the type of fruit and characteristics varies a lot. It is considered that if you started with any of a number of these wild mangos and did the amount of breeding that M.indica has had then the cultivated mango we have today could easily be from one of the other species.
The reason I'm interested is that I'd like to try to see what I can do with a wild mango from the cooler highland areas and see it it crosses with the normal mango to get a mango that will grow better in cooler places. There are a few species adapted to highland areas over 1200 metres, so I'm interested in any that come from that sort of country. I'm not concerned that they are not good fruiting types.
Choke Dee There was a man by the name of Olmos who lived in the Sacramento area of California who took an oriental rug and a few items and threw them over his shoulder and trekked the mountains of Afghanistan and surrounding nations in seazrch of grape stock. He found one that produced about 150 grapes on a cluster tinier than the last digit of your baby finger. It proved to be the savior of the modern wine grape industry as most great vines all have this as their rootstock. Maybe and hopefully we will hear of you on foot and elephant back searching the high country for cuttings to create a new "London Fog" strain of the "apricot of the tropics" your friend the mango. thanks for the info and be advised there definitely is a bit of the "oak" in the skin and the fruit of all those delicious fruit. I was highly allergic to poison oak as a youth and was always able to eat the semi-native mexican baja type and the hybridized Kent variety. One day,25 years ago, my lips started to be irritated and eventually i associated the irritation to mangos and then read a bit about it. i was smart and ended up deep peeling the Kents and then just got big chunks of the deep near the pit meat and then would put it into the back of my mouth by-passing the lips for an easy solution. hah The next day I had a patch of poison appear on my stomach just below the rib cage. You know I couldn't go forever without eating another mango so I eventually tried it again (oh they taste so sweet) and dang if I didn't get the poision oak looking reaction in nearly the exact same place on my body. i had to go up and chop the heck out the interior of an old big boy tree of the family's this year and I ended up swelling up a bunch in a bunch of places, such it is for me, but we still planted more than a half a dozen more and hope to be able to plant plenty more soon with good rains. Choke dee in your searches and i will keep an eye pealed and maybe just head out that way before the winter smog rolls in and see if I can itch something up. I'll also tell my old Ford tractor to keep an air filter open for any info
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Well, FEF,
You win, I cant instill the mental energy to keep up. But, I do give you a jealous byline in the attached
Regards to all, keep your tinder dry and your powder high
Isaanaussie
I left some info out of my last "farm" report a few posts back so I thought I'd add them here before watching the Aussie's put a wump on the germans. So I found that bio-char from sugar cane meets USDA standards for organic soil amendments and will be looking to try to secure a dozen loads or more after the rain season. My experiments in creating bio-char out of the straw was a compplete and total failure and I am abandoning it. The reason as I found it was due to the fact that all the straw holds air inside so it is impossible to slow the burn process to allow the proper carbonization of the matter. I tried a bunch of ways to try to contain the burn but just got 4th of July fireworks everytime. I used water tons of dirt and you name it too much air inherent in the structure of the straw. my method was based on a design that Jahndta had posted from tthe Phillipines theat used the rice husks. It is easy to see how that works as the husks will "stack" and occlude all the air and allow for a slow "charcoaling" burn of the matter as more of the husks work to occlude the circulation of too much air that would allow a hotter fire and free burning combustion that destroys the carbonization process that creates the bio-char. Other than composting it appears that the only use I know for it now will be to build walls I guess. Good rains on and around the farms so the rice is nearly knee high and screaming green and dat's too keen to been seen. peace
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Hey new buddy can you tell us why you want to do this? Do you know that in the skin of a mango (and even in the meat too) are toxins similar to what is found in poison oak and poison ivy. I used to be able to eat them and now i get a real bad rash if I do ( from most varieties). From what I have heard here in Buri Ram is the wild mangoes have similar effects on the locals so they shy away from the wild ones around this area. Maybe you or someone else could dial us in on what the story is. choke dee
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I have grown several lemon trees from seed, but many grow the root stock, usually the slower the growth the nearer to the fruit the new plant will be, also planting the seed fresh from the fruit is quicker than drying it.
I have had imported trees flourish well and these are easy to air graft for new plants
wouldn't know how rootstock would come from the seed but definitely can see bhow many seeds will not produce the original fruit. Reason is that they are super-hybrids that finally started producing fruit for the reason of the breeders that were hybridizing. that is why the all come grafed as it is true to the characteristics of the desired hybrid. that said I grew up on "Myers" lemons a beautiful sweet/sour flesh that was not acrid in the least and the finest lemon-ade under the sun; my wifee brought seeds back from California planted them and we are a few years into seeing what will happen but I don't think we'll end up with anything close to a Meyer but it's part of the fun and life on the farm. I'm going to bring in some stock to graft to some wild stuff she has growing at the house and hopefully in the future I'll be able to pass some onto others if it survives and proves to be a great producer here as it is in the states. yum yum and choke dee
Ford,
Mark me down for a few trees once you, sorry, your wife has done all the hard "graft". Glad it appears to be normally aspirated FEF this morning, as it had appeared a very much supercharged FEF waiting for the world cup last night?
Isaanaussie
hey good buddy will do and have some other ideas for similar things but it appears I'll be the grafting teacher but would love to be a student. We didn't get together fruity included but at least we tried. I should be up your way after i return if the fish don't haul me away as we will be hopefully purchasing a half of truck full of earth worms to work on the farm. Also got a source for quantity of crickets so organic fish food is in the works, slowly but surely as you have so beautifully shown. Big game in a few hours as the brits and the boys get it on. good refereeing has made the first few games very enjoyable as no hands on or diving is making it a pleasurable game again. go South Africa on a big Ford Truck
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Hello FF, I see the OP has not reposted to say more about his thoughts, however you bring up other things
that have no case against his opinion. Case in point, growing apples in the "LA area", what's that got to do with anything he said, or OG farming? They do grow veges in Antarctica, but no dirt. Same with your 2 comments on tomatoes, way off base. There is a difference buying from a store(one that doesn't advertise as OG) and out of your garden. If the same verity of seed was used from the non-OG farm and the OG farm, there's going to be little difference, except the price, no?
What you
It's not that the poster, "can be educated" as you say, by the regs., that's not what he's talking about the way I read his post, you might reread it with a half open mind instead, and reply with a positive rebut.
Also, Quoting you:
"I'd like somebody to tell me that chem produced tomatoes could ever come close to Soidogs in Buri Ram'."
All of my toms are grown with chemical fertilizer, no dirt, just ground up organic matter, and I try not to use chems to spray for bugs/fungi's, only as a last ditch effort. In a blind taste testing of the "same verity", same seed, from the same seedman, you couldn't tell the difference!
Again, just because it says "OG" doesn't make it taste better. To go further on that, I bought at "The Hyper
Mart", The Mall Korat, two different tom's, again, "not the same verity", but to see how they tasted.
You can see them in the two pictures. No you can't beat homegrown, but if you've read the TV threads about tom's and the problems people have growing them, so it's either buy at the hyper mart or do without for some.
Both are from the CM/ north area of LOS. The hydro was B.43.50 for see the picture for weight. The OG were B.41.25 for .358Kg.(109@K hydro - 115@K OG).
I don't mind if the hydro tom's were sprayed at a time in their growing cycle if needed, I doubt that they were over sprayed, I've met the grower, he's a Pro, he's set up most of the biggest hydro farms in LOS.
This picture is my old hydro bags from last season with I think, a Black Cherry, that I walked by(not seen)
till I took the pic. Coir and rice hulls, it got it's first nutes a few minutes later, now taller and doing great.
Since you brought up the reg's. pdf, would Soidogs be tom's be OG under this reg or not?
§ 205.204 Seeds and planting stock practice standard.
(a) The producer must use organically grown seeds, annual seedlings, and planting stock: Except, That,
(1) Nonorganically produced, untreated seeds and planting stock may be used to produce an organic crop when an equivalent organically produced variety is not commercially available, Except, That, organically produced seed must be used for the production of edible sprouts;
(2) Nonorganically produced seeds and planting stock that have been treated with a substance included on the National List of synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production may be used to produce an organic crop when an equivalent organically produced or untreated variety is not commercially available;
(3) Nonorganically produced annual seedlings may be used to produce an organic crop when a temporary variance has been granted in accordance with § 205.290(a)(2);
(4) Nonorganically produced planting stock to be used to produce a perennial crop may be sold, labeled, or represented as organically produced only after the planting stock has been maintained under a system of organic management for a period of no less than 1 year; and
(5) Seeds, annual seedlings, and planting stock treated with prohibited substances may be used to produce an organic crop when the application of the materials is a requirement of Federal or State phytosanitary regulations.
The last question I have is what is the LA area? I'm from Nor Cal, to me every thing S. of the top of The Grapevine is the LA area.
Rice555
Southern California
The Southern California coast extends from San Diego to San Luis Obispo and includes Santa Barbara, Ventura, western portions of Los Angeles County and Orange County and San Diego. The Southern California coast is influenced by the Pacific Ocean and has a mild climate due to the marine air. Summers are moderate in temperature and coastal fog is common. Hot, dry winds, known as 'Santa Ana's' can be damaging here and in the inland areas of Southern California. Inland Southern California includes Riverside, San Bernardino, Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, the San Fernando Valley, Ojai Valley, and Santa Paula. The interior is more subject to hot, dry desert air than the coast and is considerably warmer. Annual rainfall along the northern coast can be as high as 16 inches in Santa Barbara and as low as 9 inches in San Diego. Droughts are not uncommon, and all crops are irrigated. The main temperate fruit and nut crops grown commercially in this region are apple, macadamia, olive, peach, persimmon, and English walnut. Since winters along the Southern California coast and interior are usually mild and often frost-free, temperate tree fruit varieties with low winter chill requirements are usually chosen because the low latitudes in this region receives a more limited number of total hours at 45℉, which are necessary to mature fruit, than other regions in the state.
Hi 555 I am truly a fool as i hadn't read the other posts before I posted my last one and i really should have addressed the issue you had brought up. I spent over an hour and a half doing it and was probably two minutes from sending it and as i was resting with my handsnowhere near the keyboard the entire site was wiped off the computer. I'm in the Us on a personal computer not in a thai internet cafe. This is the third time this has happend to me and i will never respond here agin without putting it in another format and then transferring it to here. It is ugly to see that much time and effort just dissolve and be gone. so sorry for not responding properly originally to your questions as i really spelled out what i was trying to convey in a rather complete and i felt positive way. ugly what this site has been doing, this really hurt because it wasn't really fun to have to spell all this out but was definitely educational. I don't know when I'll have the want or desire to try it again but hopefully soon maybe. good on you to try to reduce your 'cides to a minimum.
Wow 555 here i go again to put it all down in words but I'm doing it offsite and will never type directly again on thaivisa as I'm not a big fan of the keyboard and I can't take Thaivisa swallowing it up.
Let's get clear about "organic". It appears most people truly do need to be educated and it is obvious that you are extremely willing to do so as you took the time to read and study the info I put out there. fortunately the laws nowdays are rather voluminous and that protects the consumers (the original poster included). You can ascertain from the laws that to sum up what organic truly is, in a simple form, is that it is sustainable agriculture. It really isn't about not using chems and poisons. Organic basically could be defined as the never-ending process of improving soil quality. If you had land that you grew nothing but corn and cotton on for ten years and never used any chems or poisons it wouldn't qualify as an "organic" farm becuse you would be making the soil into a death patch depletely it of all its fertility. My other text, that was deleted, was a bit more involved but that is what we'll look at for now as the definig of organic and hopefully it is clear. Organic isn't about just pesticide free it is a philosophy of continual improvement of the soil and sustainability. This just can't be accomplished with modern chemical farming techniques as salts and poisons have no place in the process of revitalizing and improving the mother we call earth.
Your point of taste of tomatoes from identical seeds is what I'll try to address now. i would like to see if anyone would even think that the farm next to mine that is a sticky grey colored soil that has been chem'd and poisoned for more than the last ten years is going to produce tomatoes that taste as good as my adjacent plot that has been improved with chicken and kwai manure, multiple crops of green manure, bio-char and compost annually and is a lovely brown color with nice structure and tilth. The test could be done but with the same seeds or seedlings and exactly the same growing conditions I don't think there would be a chance that the depleted heavy sticky soil is going to produce anything that is going to come near what will come from our organic sustainable farm. It is conjecture but by looking at rice yields and health of the plants through all stages of growth their is no comparison between the farms and the difference is getting more and more as time goes on.
I will have to agree with you in regards to a planting and taste test on a neutral site with organic and non-organic methods employed that in the first year you might not be able to notice a difference in the two tomatoes. the point is that in organic you are going to have a farm that is constantly improving it's fertility where the chem is going in the other direction so in the long term you will get better food for you (quaranteed better for you because no chems and poisons) and consistently better tasting over the long term due to the improving soil conditions. My family's farm has been doing it for over a thousand years in Italy and the wine and olive oil is superb.
thanks for the geography/climate analysis of LA as i feel like you do that south of the Grapevine is definitely LA. My point was this, organic farming does best in areas where the climate is suited to the crops you are trying to grow (especially if you are trying to be a profit making farmer and not just having a truck farm). So if you don't farm and want to buy organic apples, LA ain't the place to look for farmers that are growing them. Watsonville in Santa Cruz county is home to Matinelli's famous apple cider but it isn't great apple country either and they are dependent on using at least a half dozen applications of oils and pesticides to get their crop in. If you go further north and near the snow-line you start to come to good apple country and people who try to grow organically have had much better luck growing organic apples. the reason being is that the many pests that apples have also have the many predators that prey on them and so when all those miserable aphids that constantly harass apples start to go crazy and atttack, you have a bazillion ladybugs hatching and smiling and gobbling them up and the apples thrive (sometimes, it's a tough crop to grow).
Sooo the point is the educated consumer who knows where the better climatic and geographic places are that grow the foods he desires, it can help him be able to hopefully search out organic farms in that area and be able to find a place to purchase their crops. If you can develop some kind of relationship (even a web-site) with farmers it will help find what you may want. If someone asked me to name three places and crops to grow organically in California maybe I could say apples in Placerville,El Dorado County, artichokes in Monterey county and Avocadoes in San Diego County. Those should all be well suited for the areas. Don't go looking for apple farms in the San Fernando Valley. I've grown great organic tomatoes,carrots, spices and tropical fuits down on the tip of the baja. In every major market in California you can get the lovliest organic cherrry tomatoes you can find from an organic farm at the tip of the Baja. They don't sell their beefstakes though because they are not as profitable and definitely they don't have any apples coming out of that area. I know what I say is a bit convoluted at times and i definitely didn't express myself properly with my first LA remark and that is where your question was derived from.
Please don't think I'm some pie in the sky space child as I have definitely purchased fungicide varieties that run in the hundreds of dollars a quart and have had to get them mixed right and applied immediately with the correct application equipment to fight pytheum and fusariumm attacks on golfing greens and without a few thousand dollars worth of chems and their corect and timely application you could be talking about multiple tens of thousands of dollars worth of loss so i UNDErstand chems (and maybe lived in a bit of a paradox) and their uses in many ways but never would I be putting any fungicides on the foods I eat or in the ground that I grow it in. People will possibly call me two face but such it is, i will definitely fill my body with chems if it is a matter of life or death and can say i am alive because of man made chems but now is not the time to discuss modern medicines. the phylloxera (sp) and nematodes that destroyed Europe and started to destroy American grapes was not over-come by the myriad of chems that they went underground with to go after it. It took one man and a blanket and good soles on his shoes to trek the mountains of afghanistan and Pakistan to find a wild grape that he was in searrch of. He did and now almost all the great vineyards use the stock this great fellow by the name of Olmos. I saw the stock from his original stock when it had a fruit set on, the clustur of grapes was much much smaller than the last digit of your baby finger and there were about 150 teeny tiny grapes in the cluster quite an outrageous looking cane also. There are alternatives to chems many times it is just a matter of design.
Wow again good old 555 this is 55 minutes and counting but hopefully I am addressing your questions and you can understand a bit more about the organic movement I know just putting this together has helped educate me a bit more and you can never be to old to be educated or too ignorant (as in my case). You can dang near grow anything anywhere it just becomes a point of practicality and cconvenience and in too many cases chems. Know your land and climates (as you show with your info on southern cal) is the best advice I can give the original fellow then educate yourself on the crops that do the best then search out your organic sources there visit on-site if opossible or get info any way you can then make intelligent educated decision on what you want to consume.
to address the organic in Thailand thing and who do you trust when reading a label. I would have to give the same advice don't buy your brocoli from Pattani, know what grows best where in Thailand. Try to get as close to the source and develop a relationship with your growers, if not, try to research them as the checks and balances in this country are very difficult when it comes to the law and its enforcement in every and anyway of life here.
Oh PS Mr original poster don't ever meet me on the street unless you have a big big apology because nobody and i do mean you calls me a liar because i am categorically going to call you a complete buffoon to have posted such an innflammatory statement but it obviously goes with your useless and spineless demeanor of not giving anyone a decent response for their help in trying to educate you in a field that you are completely clueless. I won't put you in the class of guys like Idi Amin, Dickie Nixon, Danny Moi and Taksin but I wouldn't be surprised if you felt that they, along maybe with another of their ilk, Mugabe, are people to look up to and emulate because if you had any bit of style you would have been able to use different words to convey a similar thought to start this topic, but don't worry you won and made me call you a name like buffoon so i stepped down to your level and that should make you proud.
Hey hey hey rice555 looks like I'm going to get this one through. hopefully I answered some of the voids I left in my other posting and sure do enjoy your input on a variety of issue. Enjoy a BL&T for me. peace and love and a warm ford tractor
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Hello FF, I see the OP has not reposted to say more about his thoughts, however you bring up other things
that have no case against his opinion. Case in point, growing apples in the "LA area", what's that got to do with anything he said, or OG farming? They do grow veges in Antarctica, but no dirt. Same with your 2 comments on tomatoes, way off base. There is a difference buying from a store(one that doesn't advertise as OG) and out of your garden. If the same verity of seed was used from the non-OG farm and the OG farm, there's going to be little difference, except the price, no?
What you
It's not that the poster, "can be educated" as you say, by the regs., that's not what he's talking about the way I read his post, you might reread it with a half open mind instead, and reply with a positive rebut.
Also, Quoting you:
"I'd like somebody to tell me that chem produced tomatoes could ever come close to Soidogs in Buri Ram'."
All of my toms are grown with chemical fertilizer, no dirt, just ground up organic matter, and I try not to use chems to spray for bugs/fungi's, only as a last ditch effort. In a blind taste testing of the "same verity", same seed, from the same seedman, you couldn't tell the difference!
Again, just because it says "OG" doesn't make it taste better. To go further on that, I bought at "The Hyper
Mart", The Mall Korat, two different tom's, again, "not the same verity", but to see how they tasted.
You can see them in the two pictures. No you can't beat homegrown, but if you've read the TV threads about tom's and the problems people have growing them, so it's either buy at the hyper mart or do without for some.
Both are from the CM/ north area of LOS. The hydro was B.43.50 for see the picture for weight. The OG were B.41.25 for .358Kg.(109@K hydro - 115@K OG).
I don't mind if the hydro tom's were sprayed at a time in their growing cycle if needed, I doubt that they were over sprayed, I've met the grower, he's a Pro, he's set up most of the biggest hydro farms in LOS.
This picture is my old hydro bags from last season with I think, a Black Cherry, that I walked by(not seen)
till I took the pic. Coir and rice hulls, it got it's first nutes a few minutes later, now taller and doing great.
Since you brought up the reg's. pdf, would Soidogs be tom's be OG under this reg or not?
§ 205.204 Seeds and planting stock practice standard.
(a) The producer must use organically grown seeds, annual seedlings, and planting stock: Except, That,
(1) Nonorganically produced, untreated seeds and planting stock may be used to produce an organic crop when an equivalent organically produced variety is not commercially available, Except, That, organically produced seed must be used for the production of edible sprouts;
(2) Nonorganically produced seeds and planting stock that have been treated with a substance included on the National List of synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production may be used to produce an organic crop when an equivalent organically produced or untreated variety is not commercially available;
(3) Nonorganically produced annual seedlings may be used to produce an organic crop when a temporary variance has been granted in accordance with § 205.290(a)(2);
(4) Nonorganically produced planting stock to be used to produce a perennial crop may be sold, labeled, or represented as organically produced only after the planting stock has been maintained under a system of organic management for a period of no less than 1 year; and
(5) Seeds, annual seedlings, and planting stock treated with prohibited substances may be used to produce an organic crop when the application of the materials is a requirement of Federal or State phytosanitary regulations.
The last question I have is what is the LA area? I'm from Nor Cal, to me every thing S. of the top of The Grapevine is the LA area.
Rice555
Southern California
The Southern California coast extends from San Diego to San Luis Obispo and includes Santa Barbara, Ventura, western portions of Los Angeles County and Orange County and San Diego. The Southern California coast is influenced by the Pacific Ocean and has a mild climate due to the marine air. Summers are moderate in temperature and coastal fog is common. Hot, dry winds, known as 'Santa Ana's' can be damaging here and in the inland areas of Southern California. Inland Southern California includes Riverside, San Bernardino, Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, the San Fernando Valley, Ojai Valley, and Santa Paula. The interior is more subject to hot, dry desert air than the coast and is considerably warmer. Annual rainfall along the northern coast can be as high as 16 inches in Santa Barbara and as low as 9 inches in San Diego. Droughts are not uncommon, and all crops are irrigated. The main temperate fruit and nut crops grown commercially in this region are apple, macadamia, olive, peach, persimmon, and English walnut. Since winters along the Southern California coast and interior are usually mild and often frost-free, temperate tree fruit varieties with low winter chill requirements are usually chosen because the low latitudes in this region receives a more limited number of total hours at 45℉, which are necessary to mature fruit, than other regions in the state.
Hi 555 I am truly a fool as i hadn't read the other posts before I posted my last one and i really should have addressed the issue you had brought up. I spent over an hour and a half doing it and was probably two minutes from sending it and as i was resting with my handsnowhere near the keyboard the entire site was wiped off the computer. I'm in the Us on a personal computer not in a thai internet cafe. This is the third time this has happend to me and i will never respond here agin without putting it in another format and then transferring it to here. It is ugly to see that much time and effort just dissolve and be gone. so sorry for not responding properly originally to your questions as i really spelled out what i was trying to convey in a rather complete and i felt positive way. ugly what this site has been doing, this really hurt because it wasn't really fun to have to spell all this out but was definitely educational. I don't know when I'll have the want or desire to try it again but hopefully soon maybe. good on you to try to reduce your 'cides to a minimum.
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Hello Samuian, was that live trees or cut up trees he was spraying or going to spray? If this was a non-farm incident, it can be very misleading statement. The use and handling of any chemical or hazards material, people need to be properly trained. One item I see here in LOS, we had restriction of it's use back in 1967,
later in the 80's, the use got more restricted, even the used rags had a special fireproof wast can and the guy that picked up the used rags, had to have haz-maz training, and they had to go to a special dump site You can buy it here in most home improvement/paint stores by the gal. (MEK)
When I was in Cub Scouts way back then(1954), we went on a field trip to SJO airport,(San Jose) and met a crop duster and got to see his plane. He crashed a couple of times before, that I know about, one time not far from my house. He was spraying strawberry's and lost power and crashed into a stack of 50Lb. lugs (wood fruit box's) from a prune orchard. When I was in high school, he fell over dead next to his plane at San Jose airport. Too much exposure over the years with NO PROTECTION, he had just tried to unclog a valve in the chem tank on the plane, his bare arm almost up to the shoulder, I wonder how many times this happened?
Education and training in the use of anything, is a must. Just look at moto's in LOS for an example.
rice555
My next door neighbor, where I grew up, had family with farms in Idaho. All the crop duster pilots became very ill there and died young from pesticide related problems, they knew about it and just were unfortunate enough to think that this was part of their trade. It surely was. Eyes are one of the major issue with most applications. Everybody usually uses some form of breathing protection, but it is very very common to not see any or bare minimal eye protection throughout time. I was licencsed by the State of California as an applicator of pesticides out of necessity when I was building and rebuilding golf courses and it was so common to have the guys who were experienced in applying the 'cides to have a little mask and no eye-gear. They never worked with me without a long lecture on the use and need of proper eye care. Try to remember that whatever you are spraying or dusting into the air, organic, or not, to try to keep the eyes shielded as you are much much more susceptible to intake through the eyes than you are of getting it through your mouth and down into the lungs. As a young kid not even in my teens I used to drive my grandma's old Cletrac track laying tractor through the apples and walnuts as my dad would be spraying from our old wooden spray rig. It seemed like no matter how early in the am we started the wind would always pick up the day we sprayed and I can remember the sweet smells of Diazanon and using 2-4-D now because it was the legal version of the same thing that got outlawed just before. My dad dropped dead at 50 as his heart just shrivelled up to nothing and I'm sure it wwas due to the pesticides that he had been exposed to over his life, I can remember him dripping in the stuff when the winds were strong the hose was too short and we had to finish today because he was back in school to teach the next day for a week and we couldn't miss this one of way too many sprays for the year. Fortunately for the original poster of this topic he can get his daily dose of what he thinks is the benefits of all this modern use of pesticides by buying shiny bright mega-corporate apples in any of the big mega-super-markets. I'm sure Dutch Shell and Exxon must own 100's of thousands, if not millions, of acres of US farm land so he will always have many sources to get his fill of his life sustaining 'cides. Oh and just in case he reads this (he hasn't had the courtesy to respond to any of our responses) were just writing these responses because we base our life on lies and conning folks that what's what organic is all about, so thanks buddy for keeping us doing what we do best
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I have grown several lemon trees from seed, but many grow the root stock, usually the slower the growth the nearer to the fruit the new plant will be, also planting the seed fresh from the fruit is quicker than drying it.
I have had imported trees flourish well and these are easy to air graft for new plants
wouldn't know how rootstock would come from the seed but definitely can see bhow many seeds will not produce the original fruit. Reason is that they are super-hybrids that finally started producing fruit for the reason of the breeders that were hybridizing. that is why the all come grafed as it is true to the characteristics of the desired hybrid. that said I grew up on "Myers" lemons a beautiful sweet/sour flesh that was not acrid in the least and the finest lemon-ade under the sun; my wifee brought seeds back from California planted them and we are a few years into seeing what will happen but I don't think we'll end up with anything close to a Meyer but it's part of the fun and life on the farm. I'm going to bring in some stock to graft to some wild stuff she has growing at the house and hopefully in the future I'll be able to pass some onto others if it survives and proves to be a great producer here as it is in the states. yum yum and choke dee
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Streetlights,hosepipes? you were lucky, we lived in cardboard box in middle of road ,,,,,,,,
Honestly though, we didnt have tap water or electricity untill 1965, and thats East Anglia UK, it was a well, and the water was so sweet, [pre fertilizer/chemical days] light was by pixee parrafin lamps, and tilly lamps while eating or playing cards or some game, entertainment was a valve/catswhisker radio, which the batteries would be taken away and charged once a week, [another set left for use] ,,
From age 6 and 8 [older brother] dad gave us a bit of garden on the 1 acre home land, about 40sq yds each i would reckon, he used to say, dont do as i do boy, but do as i tell you, the ses pit would be ladled onto the whole plot, then a trailer load of hot pig/cowshit from the local farm spread allover, then dad would plough it in with his BMB plowmate, leave for 2 weeks and then get planting, We never did question dad why he done this next step, because he always done it like that, he planted a row of onions then carrots, then more onions,marigolds,spuds,gooseberrys,turnips,more flowers,radishes, chrysanthemums,spuds, and so on, as we got into our early teens, of course, cycle tracks,gang huts,tree climbing,motorbikes, slug guns, and girls, and still we helped dad & mum with the garden and still had a teaspoon of cod liver oil and a tsb of malt before bed, i still maintain the cod oil, wish i could find the malt!!
It wasnt untill i moved to Thai that i started my gardening and farming thingy again, just over 2 years ago, we got the mealy bugs in the papaya ect, i was asking for help on here, Ozzydom sent me a site called companion planting, after reading this, i only then realized what dad was up to 45years previous, the plants produce different chemicals to keep bugs away from each other, it could be a bit labourious to put a garlic bulb in between every plant in a 9 rai field, but if it will save your crop, what the hel_l,, garlic or oinion bulbs are cheaper than sprays!
IA, how long have you been here mate? fancy taking the family when you have deadlines to meet!! what you describe is a daily occurence hear, and thats why i dont have a pick-up, i like to keep my sanity, well, i try hard,
Keep plugging along together all, Cheers, Lickey,,
Hey you old Issan Aussies and Lickeys (or not Lickeys, me I likey) and Soidoggerdoo in America at home with mom, her folks have been farmers on cliffs for the last 1500 years as far as i can figure. My sister said she was up on a ledge a few days ago with a cousin duing religious rituals on one of our cousins, the mediterranean a long way in the distance (yeah i see they just stopped murdering some of the last of the bluefin tuna, why let them be there aren't no more). My father's family has been doing it for longer than there were even rocks and at this moment they have been so good at it for the last few millenia that all the small rocks that they have been planting have gotten even bigger. I couldn't believe how successful they were as i have never seen a farm like that. yeah lickey no juice at that house either it was about 1/4 kilometer walk from the nearest rock road. It's great country for building rock roads though. Now where did we start here it was something about onion or garlic or Pigpen (the dead one) or feeding pigs or was it how good marigolds are for companion planting. Oh I forget, wait maybe it was IA that invisible help. I know of a bit of a different one than Issan was talking about and fortunately not so "helpful". It is really tough dealing with the family as most Thais have told me they are all very very hardheaded. I used the poitically correct term independent. we all know what i AM TALKING ABOUT And others will get it in time or misery if they don't or aren't mai pen rai enough. Anywho....... I'm talking of the "spirit" that all farmers have to have, you're out at 3 in the morning trying to rap it up the lighting firing everywhere but on top of you and still the dust comes up when you gather the mother of us the earth and yet you move on you can't go b ack there is no yesgterday it is the living theater in its essenc e (dang it's world cup soon ansd these fingers don't dance like i wish they wou8ld). So we keep on keeping on, it's Truckin and we got ALL the chips c ashed in but the spirit is there the spirit that being one with the land has given everyone that has it. You don't poison that spirit with greed and salt and poison and monsanto and exxon and that is why we have chosen the path wee atre following. the site has been dead for a while because there was just too dang much stuff to be done for some and others the soirit maybe was laying low but its always there and more and more folks will find the old ways the ways of the spirit of the youth of the 50's and the ancient forms of man living in harmony with the land will blossom again. IfNOT? well we'll have a lot of "friends" on the doorstep asking for a bowl of soup and you what that means............. all are welcvome come peace and love and the high flying top of the tranny iof a ford 6610 in 8th gear flyig east towards the cambodia border at a sun firing at the sky because it'll be a little too late to be seeing that lucky old sun coming up over the Filmore distric of SF after getting out of a late late night at Winterland.
PS I have a great Arfrican American golf buddy here who says when he was young the only toys that he got to play with were dirt and rocks. You know definitely it was most a joke but so true at times. Yeah he's got 3 Cat 12 and 14 motorgraders, a couple water trucks paddle wheels excavators and a dozer and other tractors for his business. All public schools he attended and the sucker is even with me on our match we have been [laying ffor the last couple years so this time it is the final. He'll be off to the Ryder Cup in Wales to participate in a preliminary amateur competition in Oct. Oh yeah he was in his teens when he crashed his motorcycle and the doctors decided to take off his leg. Of course his dad then oproceeded to inform the physician that he would do a headectomy on him if they even thought of not being able to save the leg. He walks with a limp but can wiggle dem toos fine when he hears " The Golden road to Unlimited devotion". Goalllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
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Hello Finlaco, try the 'western food forum' or foodland, villa or makro. I think most people on any of the OG/ farming forum don't live in BKK.
This is more about starting a bay tree farm, not buying the leaf.
Did you try looking first?, I can find them at Big C, The Mall, Lotus, Makro and several other stores here in Korat.
rice555
Hey Finlaco guy why in the heck did you dial into our trip. Are you really looking for organic fresh bay leaf grown here in Thailand then we are the ones to try to turn you on to them otherwise it is probably time to delete you and let us not cluster up our site. So if you need organic then you have the right site and just be abit more descriptive because we're all here to help you and others but time is a precious thing....except when there stillis 45 minutes til the world cup begins. Ps bay grows wild many places in the world and maybe even here if you had doen asearch on our site i bet you would have found thye subject discuss but anywho I'm not too sure if yu know Fords are Forever
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Been close to central region could be the reason for the price per kg which you are getting (pellet feed transportation cost) you really need to check those prices, Mellow. Up north in Chiang Rai, farmgate price currently at 40 THB/kg. the further you are the better the price due to higher pellet feed cost, but sadly...retailer price of a kg of fishes remain the same, not that the wholesalers are getting more profit, the price discrepancy work out to be their gas money.
King of the Pla Mr. Red bull on the horn this is the first time to thank you but so many thanks ofor all your previous nd continuing help and info.with your info you can make a brainless dolt into a fish farmer (actually the reason I'm going to try is i feel I AM QUAlified) (also my typing proves it). How much worth of fingerlings (weight and baht) do you think it takes to getr their attention and then be able to acquire a few legitimate wholesaler's phone numbers.
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s
Hi.
I miss some posts here
.Did it die or something?
I really enjoy the guys posting here. Please keep up the good work
Great well I tried, I spent close to an hour typing up my final report for the year, pressed the reply button and got a thing saying they were shutting down the site at 6pm to make the mess they have made of it yesterday. It was 5:30 pm and there was no way to retrieve my script so it was all for nought and I hate to type and doubt I'll do it all over again so you probably won't hear from me for a few months here. It was shear stupidity that they did it that way but what else is new in this land of ineptitude, you bet your horse's a..s that I am p'd off big time. May all your fresh manure smell like the fools that did this without warning or recourse for the people on site without a sensible warning, what a complete joke.
FEF,
How completely a-typical of you, sounds more like my reaction to wasted effort. Jai Yen Yen my friend. I too was surprised by the earlier than announced closure, but hey, Mai pen Rai TIT after all. There are no doubtedly more species of Pla in the pond and co-ordination isnt a Thai strength. When I looked this morning the old PMs were missing and I was pleasantly surprised by the almost immediate reaction by the support staff. Most things take a little longer here than where we all come from.
Give it another crack please, we all appreciate your input.
IA
Just take a deep breathe, and realise that just occessionaly we dont get our vinegar strokes aligned, after all isn't your motto FORD Fix or Repair Daily
too too good with the "kids" you are starting to be the heart and soul of this forum. Maybe time for you to take over as moderater and just let the hogs take care of themselves. You're a whirling dervish in many ways. You know we all love as much as you love your hogs too too good with the "kids" you are starting to be the heart and soul of this forum. Maybe time for you to take over as moderater and just let the hogs take care of themselves. You're a whirling dervish in many ways. You know we all love as much as you love your hogs too too good with the "kids" you are starting to be the heart and soul of this forum. Maybe time for you to take over as moderater and just let the hogs take care of themselves. You're a whirling dervish in many ways. You know we all love as much as you love your hogs Oh my oh my oh my oh my you won't believe this one but somehow I am here again with this response that i sent into another post of yours IA. I just had spent almost 45 minutes (after taking your deep breath advice) and typed up my final report on the farm again to add to the posts and my entire posting disappeared and the other response above "oh my oh....", that i had already posted, showed up. Well that is twice and I can't seem to recover what i typed and it was rather lengthy and so it is. I can't seem to motivate myself to do it again and I do have a plane to catch. Man that was a tough one to lose it again but never fear somewhere and sometime again I will attempt it but I can't say when as it seems that some force is keeping me away from doing it. Sorry Soidog i even had a quote from the Dead's "New Speedway Boogie" on it. Like you might say on this one "what a long strange trip it's been" Sort of like a "Box of Rain" believe it if you need it or delete if you dare.... and yes it appears as if something or one dared. Such it is, I have my health (well at least my physical part, the mental part has always been a bit dodgy but most folks standards). so anywho who would ever think an old dirt farmer could write and type on the computer anyway. I guess I'll sit back have a Campari and soda and watch my fingernails grow. peace and love to all
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Well not wishing to suffer the time out issues or whatever of Foreverford and Lickey. I wrote mine contribution offline. Please find and get a laugh from the attachment.
Isaanaussie
Bloody marvelous mate goodonya...can just picture it.....'stop little bit for me", "Go straight"...love it..same same here mate..made my day ..keep it up
Thanks Dave,
Arh a Milligan fan! Man after my own heart... ' "Great little woman your mother" said Milligans father as the two of them stood watching her dig the air-raid shelter. Milligan responded, "Yes and getting smaller all the time" ' Cracks me up. Even the poetry, "Thought I saw Jesus on a tram, I asked "Are you Jesus?" He said "Yes I am."
OK. A few days ago I made a statement about living in Thailand gave the same sort of freedom that I had as a child. Of course I was promptly reminded that was only possible because of my hardworking parents. Well in order to explain what I really meant, I attach something that a friend sent me some time ago.
Isaanaussie
too too good with the "kids" you are starting to be the heart and soul of this forum. Maybe time for you to take over as moderater and just let the hogs take care of themselves. a yuk a yuk. You're a whirling dervish in many ways. You know we all love you as much as you love your hogs. You know on that subject if you can't understand how easy it is to fall in love with your hogs then you have never really been a farmer and lived the life. It is truly an amazing thing how fine a beast those things are. Yeah I know many are thinking of rude jokes etc but I am serious and I know you and fruity understan what i mean (now what have i DONE TO make this wild font, oh well onward). Others who have raised hogs I'm sure understand it. There just isn't any other type of beast that is so enjoyable to have around. keep on trucking with a 65 Ford pick up.
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Yes there is only a small window for planting rice in my area Sisaket. The harvest is set by when the rice has reached its peak, earlier the yield is down and the drier it gets still in the paddy the more broken rice you will get, hence lowering the price. The correct question should be when do you sell it, that you can control.
Answers on other crops are abundant of the thread. My point of view is I am better off growing things I can add value to or utilise as feed. I don't have the capacity to fill a transport with enough to deal with the major merchants in Bangkok and the local markets and merchants are virtually a lockdown. You really "have no choice" their way or the highway. Good luck with that one, I have a feeling that will be harder to realise than you think.
IA
Cheers for this. it is actually quite intereting. So if I hang on to the rice till the price goes up i can make more profit?? How would I keep a check on when best to sell, and how long could I keep the rice? Also would i be better off buying rice off others willing to sell when the price is low, storing the rice and selling when the price is high, rather than investing in land myself when cash is spare?? and any idea of the proit i could make if I did this. I am thinking I would need to invest a lot of money into doing this though as the mark up would be small
Many people try to do what you are doing but as you are gambling you can take a big loss in more ways than one. You can find rice prices on a topic I have started and will see that the price of rice dropped nearly 25% in the last few months so if you had invested a lot of money you would have made a huge loss. Our first harvest of 29 tons netted us a 1/4 million baht loss. It is a tough game and you sound as if you haven't done a lot of research yet. try to read as many posts as you can and then come back with other questions and try to give some hard facts (how much land what kind of water and application systems) and we'll try to put you on the right path to some kind of sustainable agricultural practice that hopefully will make you a bit of profit. being a rice trader is similar to the stock market except a ton more work and risks in so many ways. If you have land get some manure on it and plant cover crops so that when you decide what you are going to grow you will have improved soil and your yields will be much improved. I believe Pah Teung (sun Hemp) is one of the best cover crops you can plant in Thailand
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Well not wishing to suffer the time out issues or whatever of Foreverford and Lickey. I wrote mine contribution offline. Please find and get a laugh from the attachment.
Isaanaussie
well well done put a big smile on my face
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Hi.
I miss some posts here
.Did it die or something?
I really enjoy the guys posting here. Please keep up the good work
Great well I tried, I spent close to an hour typing up my final report for the year, pressed the reply button and got a thing saying they were shutting down the site at 6pm to make the mess they have made of it yesterday. It was 5:30 pm and there was no way to retrieve my script so it was all for nought and I hate to type and doubt I'll do it all over again so you probably won't hear from me for a few months here. It was shear stupidity that they did it that way but what else is new in this land of ineptitude, you bet your horse's a..s that I am p'd off big time. May all your fresh manure smell like the fools that did this without warning or recourse for the people on site without a sensible warning, what a complete joke.
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be very careful if you acquire and apply any of this as it can contain pathogens that can cause illness be sure to have proper breathing and eye protection when applying. choke dee
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LOL. Nice type of mine.
cucumber?
typO - dam_n, what's wrong with me!?
I was going to jump in long ago but I guess now is the time. The original post was not really about pesticides it was some fellow stating categorically the örganics" is a sham.
But first to address the entire pesticide thing. The use of them are in many areas that a marginal growing areas for the crops that they are asttempting. Organics definitely does best in the areas where the crops are grown do very well. For example apples do much better in an area that is just touched by an occasional snow. If you try to grow them in the Los Angeles California area you are going to have real problems. To get optimum organic foods know your foods and the areas that they grow best and then search out your organic sources from there and enjoy. Unless you are the original poster or should I say Imposter, as it may be, as he can go to any hyper-mart and satisfy his food and taste requirements with perfect looking tasteless tomatoes.
The original poster can be educated by just looking at this link( http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dD...=STELDEV3003507 ) Just to read this specific info, let alone the entire text from the USDA will take a bit of time because quite a few people understand the need for organics and obviously so does the USDA, as this link shows. Just like your medicines and other things that are critical your your well-being the organic industry is highly highly regulated now. I helped to write the first legislation for the State Of California in the late 70's as everyone was using the word organics to try to cash in on something they had no concept of except that it could possibly help them make an extra buck. Organically raised foods are critical for some peoples lives and they now have many many more assurances that foods from organically "certified" farmer organisations meet all US and International standards based on their certifying bodies.
I'd like somebody to tell me that chem produced tomatoes could ever come close to Soidogs in Buri Ram'. Well a bit of Choke dee, we all can use a bit of good luck, for the guy who started this as he is a real dreamer but unfiortunately it appears that his view is going to create a bit of nightmares for his health. Forever Fords
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foreverford, we havent seen jandtaa for three months on any forum and i sent u a pm asking if u had phone number etc... so i guess u dont either...
i will try to ask around here in isreal if there is a list that would be useful but it will take time (i have to ask someone to ask my ex since he doesnt speak to me)he was an organics certifier blabla for field crops in israel a few years ago...
and if anyone has info about jandtaa, pm me or other mods... or have him pm us if he doesnt want to be public....
bina
currently modding for jandtaa in this forum......
Hi Bina sorry I didn't get your PM or I would have responded even if I didn't have the info you needed but I don't own a computer so it may have been lost in space. I hope Jandtaa surfaces soon as he is a very fine fellow. Hopefully everything is alright and he just needs some time. Thanks for your offer of help I have my sis -in-law in California also asking some folks as I think that the bio-char from the sugar cane should qualify for organic but i need to kn9ow before i introduce it into my farms because I can't gamble with going basck to day one in regards to my organic status.
I look at it as if you have manure from animals that are eating things that are not organic. the manure is still able to be used on organic farms but I will still wait to see what I find out. thanks again
I got this from the USDA (US dept of Ag) and it appears there is no problem using the bio-char from the sugar cane. This is a good source for everyone as it will answer a lot of questions on what we have legislated in the US to qualify for organics http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dD...=STELDEV3003507 choke dee and Fords forever
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Forgot to say I have sourced some Ma Rum, moringa, planted them 2 days ago, eagerly awaiting their growth.
Also made a home made biopod for black solider fly, but so far only blowfly maggots have appeared, I have read that BSF do live in TL, just need to attract them with the right food stuff, I read that mango fruit and milk are a very good initial attractant for them but have been too busy with other stuff to get around to that yet.
Hey trips any updates for us future fish farmers forever
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"its sweet and from our farm its totally organic, Cheers Lickey"
"As things are at the moment the salad beds are still bare due to overuse of cides,"
Excuse me, but is this the same farm?
Yes Dr, its the same farm, the salad beds take up about 1/2 rai, 4 trees border on this, they are the thick curled tamarind that isnt very sweet and normally used in cooking, these trees dont have many pods this year, again, perhaps due to cides? the other 50+ trees are dotted round the 40rai farm and there is never a need to spray cides under such a tree, its the same as bamboo, nothing grows under it, so no need to use cides,
Its also possible to argue about or discuss run-off from rain ect, no real problem there either, the farm is hilside, and the old gulleys the rain has made are still there, excess water runs 50 mtrs to the access road, and off the farm, past another curly pod tree,orange tree, coconut palm,
80% of the trees are the straight pod type,and in my 3 years here, i know no cides have been near them, there is no need, they look after themselves,
There was a thread on the farming forum many months ago about getting an Organic Farm Certificate, after many posts, it seems that if one could give a big enough bribe to the inspector, then they would get the certificate, this to me is a pointless procedure, but money talks as usual,
So to be on the safe side, i will close my offer to send organic tamarind pulp, because i cant garantee its tottaly organic.
The other fruit trees we have far away from the salad beds are Lychee 3, Lamyai 10, Kanoon 2, Mango 8, banana 1600, papaya 400, makua 150, The banana and papaya are water lovers, and i just cant get enough water to them, but the others are full with flower, mango & kanoon have good fruit already, the others are full with flower which the locals say is a sign of a long early wet season, which of course will leech the soil of all the crap that has been applied in the past.
The last time any cide was used on the farm was october last year, mr poo took in his own hands to spray the cucumber for aphids, they are all dead now, that was a month ago, [cucumber dead] and the aphids,.
Dr treelove, you posed a good question and i hope ive anserwed it fully, my main reason for starting this thread is because i want to learn more about natural/organic farming, all off the posters have given good links and im learning all the time,so perhaps in January next year i can garantee chemical free fruits? today there were birds singing and twittering on the farm, now thats what i want to hear, nature/natural, cant beat it!
Happy Farming, Lickey..
In general I believe to have a "certified" organic farm and products it takes three years to accomplish this in America now. My last organic farming venture for profit was in the late 70's in California so I am far from a currently updated expert on the laws worldwide or in Thailand. It is always the best to try to associate your farm with an existing society or group that certifies its members. They will have affiliation with people and groups that are current with regulations in the process. The need for three years was necessitated by farmers getting big problems with their farms and they ultimately would chem them and then try to bring them back to organic one year from the date of their application (when one year used to be the criterion).
Good on everyone that is growing organic as you are an organic grower and your product is an organic product even if you are in your first or second year. The key to this is that it is not a "certified" organic product and older buyers will understand and question the source of the products. I believe everyone that isn't certified should state how long they have been farming their plots and that will give buyers the ability to chose if they think your goods may be viable for them. I am having a very difficult time in Buri Ram trying to certify our rice farms as rthere is no government ability to do this in this province or at least that is what we were told by Buri Ram Ag Dept. Surin has an excellent organization to certify its rice growers and many floks are becoming very wealthy there do to it. They also require new members to go to a certain amount of new schooling that they have and then all members are required to do additional schooliong each year to maintain their standards. It sounds like a very good organization and hopefully they will be able to expand similar programs into other provincews. Time will tell.
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foreverford, we havent seen jandtaa for three months on any forum and i sent u a pm asking if u had phone number etc... so i guess u dont either...
i will try to ask around here in isreal if there is a list that would be useful but it will take time (i have to ask someone to ask my ex since he doesnt speak to me)he was an organics certifier blabla for field crops in israel a few years ago...
and if anyone has info about jandtaa, pm me or other mods... or have him pm us if he doesnt want to be public....
bina
currently modding for jandtaa in this forum......
Hi Bina sorry I didn't get your PM or I would have responded even if I didn't have the info you needed but I don't own a computer so it may have been lost in space. I hope Jandtaa surfaces soon as he is a very fine fellow. Hopefully everything is alright and he just needs some time. Thanks for your offer of help I have my sis -in-law in California also asking some folks as I think that the bio-char from the sugar cane should qualify for organic but i need to kn9ow before i introduce it into my farms because I can't gamble with going basck to day one in regards to my organic status.
I look at it as if you have manure from animals that are eating things that are not organic. the manure is still able to be used on organic farms but I will still wait to see what I find out. thanks again
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I would like to get some info from some international sources in regards to amendments that are added to the soil. I purchased a 10 wheel truck full of the burnoff from sugar cane production. It is an excellent source of bio-char but I had my wife purchase it when i was in the US and ended up not putting it into my 14 raI FARM and hauled it off to use for other purposes. The reason I eventually didn't use it was I wasn't sure what the people who certify for organic would consider this amendment and i couldn't afford to put it on the farm and lose my status (self controlled) of organic on the big plot. I had to take out a small section of the farm from organic where i dumped it originally.
Sooooo the big question does anyone have any definitive answer to the poossibility that this bio-char may qualify as organic due to the fact that the crop has been burned and the chaR IS ALL THAT I AM USING. yES IF YOU WATER WITH GLACIER MELT OFF FROM THE NORTh pole you are going to get DDT into your farm as it is everywhere on the earth. So have any certifying agencies had to deal with something similar to this and what was their decision and basis for it?
I will try to contact the CCOF (Certified Califoria Organic Farmers) for an answer in regards to this but I haven't been active in their organisation for nearly 30 years but helped write up the first health and Safety laws for the State of California to legislate the use of the word organic in reference to agriculture in California. Buri Ram still has no program to certify farmers (we are currently doing rice and looking to do aqua-culture and many different types of fruit and veggies also) in this area and if anyone has any info to assist in this we would be happy for some info. The big co-op in Surin does not want any outsiders due to logistics of using their mnachinery in harvesting and organising their meetings and and and .....so that was a dead end a few years back.
So big queston again, is the sugar cane bio-char which is beautiful, will it pass current organic standards and laws as you have seen them used or interpreted. thanks and Fords Forever Choke Dee Hey jandtaaa I'm hoping you can set me right on this one.
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This week we had some good rain; people are planting things.
Foreverford , you are the real star and most enthusiastic member of this board.
The ripe tomatoes picture is for you, In the US it will set you back around $ 4.00 a pound or so.
I did fish for salmon around Juno and its certainly nice, you enjoy.
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Too too good Soi Dog and i was just thinking of some great BL&T sandwiches boy would i love to get my knife in those beauties in the photo. Keep on keepin on super star!
Well as you say the rains came and so did I. We got word of the rains and with a remodel of the condo just starting I grabbed a brother-in-law and loaded up an old fridge and new hydraulic cylinder for the Ford and we put it on the road at 3am and headed for the land of rain. Out your way in looked good and wet but you always get more than we do in Lavia. Got the tractor tore apart and put back together by luch time and filled it full of diesel and headed out to the small farm to disc it for planting o0f rice shortly. Puff the magic dragon as they might say as the ground was still dust and just floated away with the wind so I was finished with all i could do in less than a minute and headed back to the family home. I was then advised that it had rained much harder over at the big farm about 5 kilometers away so I left the "18" disc (2 gang adjustable 3 point disc set up) on the Ford and put it in eighth gear and heade towards the Cambodian border as the skies were trying to drop some rain. The rain didn't come and but there was a bunch more moisture in the ground (still not enough to do all I need to do as far as levelling certain areas) and I was able to get the 19 rai ready for seeding (ideally I'll be able to level more before we plant) and the earth is just magnificent and soft and fluffy. I'm sure the pops-in-law is amazed because i told him the farms would never see a "3" or a "7" (they are basically Thai plows that they use unendingly here) again as we would only be using the disc to break the ground and work in the organic amendments that we are adding to the soil. He has to be very impressed because of the use o0f covwer crops and the tilling of them into the soil has made the fields basically weed free and in the past this farm was a big problem with weeds. We4 have a bunch of huge trees growing out in thuis farm and it is truly a beautiful place as it isn't just a big field of cropland. Under the trees the ground was very moist and fertile as is the way with nature. I finished with a glorious sunset and the day turning to night and knowing that the full moon was working its way through the clouds to greet me. I was able to buy some dried fish from a village a few kilometers from the big farm and put it in eighth gear again and hit the highway with all the lights blazing away. Got home and dumped the 18 and put on the box scraper and grabbed a few of the ripping teeth and turned it around filled it up to the top with diesel again and went back to fix the road to the big farm with enough moisture in it to start to make it take form and the next rains to come. Sure as your born and natural all again dang if i didn't find something new to do with that old sweetheart of a Ford tractor. the moon was full and getting high in the sky it had been a long ,long day that started over 700 kilometers away and i need to get done sometime and head back to Ratchaburi with the bro-in-law (since there wasn't enough rain to do all the work i needed to do on the farms and roads). So i looked at the old mule and decided to turn the ripping teeth around backwards and point the teeth forward and reverse the pins and sure as you're born I've got the box draging behind me picking up and laying down the spoils from the two right ripping teeth. I rolled back into the barn at just before 3am and the road was now crowned and wating for more rain but had finally taken on the shape of a properly graded road. It was a partial waer bog previoulsly and a roller coaster of ponds and bumps otherwise. Sleep felt good and i was up with the sun to look at the old mule's hooves and realized that the hundreds and hundreds of hours of work had proved that my design for the ripping teeth would last a life-time... but only if I ripped ion reverse as i had designed them. They were a bit mangled from ripping and grading with box at the same time yet they didn't fail me and i did finish what I needed to do but after i took a sledge hammer and a bit of hydraulic advantage to get them off the dozer blade the main weld on the dozer blade let loose (This is a Somboon Tractor part from out your way Soi Dog and the old man was a great tractor man but his son has taken over the business and they won't see me doing any more business with them due to things such as this blade and other things that were not professional on their part). So leaving for Hua Hin via Ratchaburi in a half hour and i get the blade to a relative to weld it back up together again and just another day "down on the farm" as we put it on the road and head south and wait again til we get any news of good rainfall so we can get the crop in the ground. In three weeks I will start o consider using my mojo to try create some rain in a way that has been unfallible before so I'll be in touch and about the only thing i don't think a Ford tractor can do is make it rain..... but then again maybe...........
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My Coconut Juice Isn't Organice Yet?
in Organic Farming, Smallholding and Kitchen Gardening
Posted
Hey cateaway I should have got this link to you sooner so you can choose your path in growing organically. By looking at your post I think you would have no problem being certified for organic internationally but as you see this is USDA (dept of ag US) spec's. Your instincts led you to make the right moves and in reality if you were (I don't think you are) looking to be certified by an organization it is a three year process. If you are doing what I think you are doing then you wouldn't have a problem being certified. Look at our pinned info for fertilizers and cover crops and you will start to see that you can control all sources of your soils amendments thru many simple and not so simple ways. Imagine farmers and organic growers not having a worm farm. I don't!!!! but I am in contact with a huge grower that sells the compost throughout thailand and I hope to buy a half of truckful of his three kinds of worms. Obvio0usly you don't have to buy worms as they will pop up in your compost eventually but i want the african night crawlers and whatever he is using for the other two as I am familiar with the africans and they are also going to be used for organic feed along with composting and possibly for sale also. Here's the link before i forget ( http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dD...=STELDEV3003507 it's nice to get some quick info with a post sikmilar to yours but we have covvered it many times over and you have it very easily at hand in our pinned section. Check it out and then get back to us because no matter how many times the same question may be asked there aloways are times when it initiates a new twist on the same old thing and we come up with a wonderful innovation that makes everybody's life better and simpler. i just didn't want to see you go off on a wild goose (elephant) chase when you probably don't need to. choke dee and in golf we say Fore but in farming we say Fordddddddddddddddd.