4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'd often wondered why the population of a couple of countries changed their minds when the original referendum was ignored and the electorate presented with a second referendum - as they'd voted incorrectly in the first referendum!

 

Your post provides some answers as to how this happened.

Its a bit like the British we hold a referendum that decides to remain in the EU but an element don't accept it and start the fight for a second referendum until they get the result they want. 

49 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Listening to Nigel Farage endlessly droning on in the Euro Parliament in his boorish manner would be enough to turn anybody off.

Nobody has to that often he has the 2nd worst attendance record of any MEP. However I see your point, even once is too much. 

2 hours ago, trogers said:

Not really. The Cabinet has to first okay the rules written, and then passed on to the President or King/Queen.

Not really the cabinet may propose but its Parliament that disposes. Without the authority of Parliament then nothing the cabinet okays gets anywhere. 

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

dear oh dear, you've been watching too many John Wayne films. My Father was in the RN in WW2 and after visiting me for two months in Germany wanted to retire there.

I know the feeling, best 3 years of my life living in Germany.

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's only more efficient until something changes. It's a common tactic of big companies/orgs to sucker smaller companies/orgs in with sweet deals, then tie them up in knots with changes of terms. A German-dominated federal Europe will tie the rest of the EU states up in knots. They've already had their successful little experiment with Greece and their successful larger experiment with the Euro. Once the EU is federalised, it's full steam ahead.

Germany agreed to the Euro as the price for reunification so it was hardly something they were pushing. However I see that your anti German rants haven't abated.

26 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Oh no!  Don't mention the 'R' word, as it only upsets the Brexiters.  And then they start calling all everyone else a snowflake.

I think Hammond is the only realist there. At least he knows it is all about the economy. 

24 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trade-deal-with-britain-is-low-priority-us-signals-qz80pvqjb&ved=0ahUKEwjb5syHxOnUAhXIYo8KHTxyA7QQFghsMAk&usg=AFQjCNHXtnTmaed61nEO_KqCklYArdvsqw

Wilbur Ross the US Commerce Secretary is already on record saying, "Brexit is a ‘God-given opportunity’ to steal trade from UK"

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Like it,  so why didn't they let China try ?  

I think its something to do with having to pay back money you borrowed, an old fashioned concept I must admit.

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That is just the sort of thing l try to express about my EU feelings,  don't understand Greece they should of stuffed them, they weren't treated well before by them and there not being treated well again by the leader of the club.

 

l can understand the mentality of a club been thrown out of a lot of em    l just don't know why people can't see Germany's role in it,  there not far off like the English use to be " Totally Ruthless " comes to mind. 

 

 

 

 

I agree,  I really cannot understand Germans not wanting finance the Greeks with their rampant tax evasion and paying themselves generous social provisions, early retirements, pensions etc.

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Please stop quoting facts,it's very confusing for the Remoaners.

Since you are so interested in facts I will repeat an earlier post.

Philip Hammond conceded that Brexit will blow a £59bn black hole in the public finances. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) announced that there would be a cumulative £122bn of extra borrowing over the next five years, with £59bn of that as a direct result of Brexit. George Osborne was expecting to achieve a surplus of £11bn on the public finances by 2020-21; instead, the OBR is now forecasting a £21bn deficit – and public debt is expected to peak at more than 90% of GDP.

It must be terrible for the remaining 27 countries of the EU having to deal with a 20 billion Euro black hole when they could go it alone and have a 59 billion pound black hole or to compare directly 67 billion Euro black hole.

10 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Disagree Germany is very much the EU Brexit topic are young or some-mic they still would like to dominate the world as England did one time and their very jealous still,  the 1st & 2nd world war didn't go well for them so how about a financial world war so to speak, get it.  

Are you related to Khun An by any chance?

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

When the pound dropped significantly it did little to boost exports. Moreover our trading base is very low.  It takes ages to reverse these things. The main point is we don't produce much that other countries want or have the huge volume markets, except in financial services.  Unless it is fundamentally accepted that our productivity is poor, that our industry is under funded, and that we don't manage well, then nothing will change.

 

If some change is made, then that will be good, but it will also emphasise the futility of leaving the EU as these more important changes would undoubtedly also redress the trade imbalance with the EU.

 

These are moot points.  The fact is we are leaving and no doubt we will make it work somehow.  But in this instance the situation will be no different from the person that digs a hole for himself, struggles to get out of it and then spends the rest of the week filling it again.

 

To give another analogy- football haters bear with me.  England has failed to compete on a European (and world) level for some time- falling well short of peer countries. The FA ploughed resources in to an academy (St Georges). Now for the first time in decades we have actually started winning with U20s and performing much better across all age groups.  My point, it is only systemic change that brought that about.

 

 

Professor Minford (The former adviser to Margaret Thatcher) Vote Leave economist advocated Brexit while admitting Brexit would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing. 

Philip Hammond conceded that Brexit will blow a £59bn black hole in the public finances. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) announced that there would be a cumulative £122bn of extra borrowing over the next five years, with £59bn of that as a direct result of Brexit. George Osborne was expecting to achieve a surplus of £11bn on the public finances by 2020-21; instead, the OBR is now forecasting a £21bn deficit – and public debt is expected to peak at more than 90% of GDP.

It must be terrible for the remaining 27 countries of the EU having to deal with a 20 billion Euro black hole when they could go it alone and have a 59 billion pound black hole or to compare directly 67 billion Euro black hole.

16 hours ago, NoBrainer said:

I bet the majority of people they are asking are the freeloader that don't earn any money, and hence, don't pay any taxes anyway.

 

Who in their right mind, that is smart enough to earn more than a million or two a year, is going to say they are for higher taxation?

Warren Buffett calls for higher taxes for US super-rich

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

That's a good one.

 

EU referendum Bill - cost unknown

Failed court case - cost unknown

Failed appeal - cost unknown

Additional brexit ministerial posts - cost unkown

Additional dept to exit EU - cost unknown

Additional brexit advisors - cost unknown

Outstanding EU debt - estimated 50 billion Euros

EU negotiations - cost unknown

Negotiating new trade agreements - cost unknown

Establishing new entities to replace those currently operated by the EU - cost unknown

Rewriting thousands upon thousands of pieces of legislation and documents - cost phenomenal. 

 

Corbyn's proposals will seem like petty cash compared to the overall cost of brexit.

Hammond in his Autumn statement said, "over the six years from last April, Britain will borrow an extra £122bn – of which almost £58.7bn is a black hole opened up directly because of the uncertainty created by EU withdrawal." So in addition to the more than 50% increase in debt that has been incurred since the Tories returned to power lets add more. That should stop the supertanker blow a hole in it.

24 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why,  because he talks sense and has answers to all of the false statements made by Remainers?

 

He totally shot down all of the false statements made about the rise in hate crimes since the Brexit announcement. Even Jo Coburn was lost for words as she realised she had said the wrong thing.

Is that the same man who said, "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" at which point he added that also meant freedom of movement and that is when Evan Davies the interviewer on Newsnight burst out laughing.

He was knocked down by Cameron for his eccentric views on the NHS, views by the way which he keeps very quiet about when campaigning in the UK but expresses them quite openly for the benefit of Fox News.

Or perhaps his ludicrous claim that Magna Carta where our rights were won at Runnymede. I bet the Barons would have raised an eyebrow that Runnymede somehow prevented them from throwing the odd serf or two into prison without a fair trial. 

However I can quite see that you would think anyone's arguments had been shot down if the person making them agreed with you.

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

How the terms of trade are dictated depends on what each proposed trade deal is. If a particular country is keen on exporting large quantities of it's products to us as a part of the trade deal, they wont be dictating the terms.I just don't get why remainers try to put the most negative spin possible on everything brexit-related. Well, I do, actually: they're doing their bit for Project Fear.

To think it was only a short time ago you were regaling us with all sorts of conspiracy theories following May's dismal performance in the general election.

8 hours ago, Flustered said:

Watching Daniel Hannan on the Daily Politics show was great.

 

He destroyed every argument put forward by the other guests (pro EU) and also Jo Coburn. He just left them sitting there not knowing what to say. All the rubbish put forward by the remainers about an increase in hate crime....shot down in flames and disproved.

 

What an articulate well researched man he is. What a pity he is not an MP rather than an MEP.

Yeah I saw him on Fox News talking about the NHS, Hannity thought he should be prime minister and you know you are in trouble when you get that sort of recommendation.

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Why would there be loads of countries willing to give the UK replacement business? Why wouldn't the UK have that business already if it made financial sense for them to have it?  Or were you making a joke?

Apparently there are loads of countries waiting for us to escape from the EU so that they can begin doing business with us. There's .... and ... well I am sure there are lots.

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

U.K.'s Euro Clearing Business at Risk as ECB Requests More Powers

The European Central Bank lodged a formal request for greater powers to supervise euro-denominated clearing, stepping up a tug of war between European Union authorities and Britain over the future of the lucrative business line after Brexit.

 

Britain's departure from the EU has rekindled a debate about whether big U.K.-based clearing houses should decamp within the bloc, given the importance of their activities for the stability of eurozone financial markets.

 

The ECB said on Friday it had lodged a request with EU authorities for changes to its statute that would allow it to exercise "a clear legal competence in the area of central clearing."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/06/23/u-k-s-euro-clearing-business-at-risk-as-ecb-requests-more-powers.html

 

I don't know why the UK wants to hang onto this after all the Euro is going to implode anyway or so we are told. It was only a few years ago that the ECJ decided in the UK's favour that even though we were not in the Euro we were in the EU and thus entitled to have this located in London. Seems now that argument has gone out of the window. Still there must be loads of countries just waiting to give us replacement business.