drtreelove

On 6/14/2021 at 2:01 AM, CLW said:

Autos are the way for hobby growers here, but not for commercial or semi-commercial operations since you always need to buy new seeds which over the time gets expensive.

Seeds should be considered over vegetative propagation which is a primary means of disease transmission.

I just had a discussion with a master plant pathologist who is doing research on cannabis diseases and the hop latent viroid specifically; he emphasized that poor sanitation and vegetative introductions are the primary modes of transmission. So far an insect vector has not been identified. 

Other hazards exist that fencing the property won't prevent:

drone-assist pollen drops executed by competitors, activists or neighboing farmers protecting water resources from the heavily irrigated grows. Adios sinsemilla.

Beautiful!  Please share info on any significant soil and water management practices you use.  

IMHO, your love and attention is felt by the trees, as much and other inputs.  My little white magic 'yipsee' wife would be making offerings of flowers and fruit for the spirit of the tree. 

My two satang:  Don't let your guard down, it will take adequate water and fertility to carry this abundant fruit crop to a tasty maturity.

Its rainy season so water management will be only to keep vigilant with a deep watering program during a dry spell,  two weeks or more. You can dig down a few inches to a foot to monitor soil moisture content, or to avoid root damage, use a soil moisture meter or soil sampling tube. 

Leaching of nutrients can be significant during monsoon season. Vegetative growth and fruit development uses up certain nutrients.  Keep up the soil fertility and plant nutrition with a good COF input,  (complete organic fertilizer) or composted chicken manure like CP's "maw din", available at Kamtieng plant market.  Best Garden State is close to getting their fertilizer blends up and running on FB, Lazada and website. Otherwise, OrganicTotto's bokashi is still the best COF I've found in Thailand. 

I hope that helps, Don

14 hours ago, huuwi said:

 

Ok, thats it. lot's of sweat and elbow grease is coming my direction. as you mention earlier, dont use it for vegy or fruit, i have to do it myself, no shortcut. damn clay. rice husk mixed with pig <deleted> is available to losen up the clay. is sawdust a option or will it attrack termites. parts of sand or small gravel? straw?

thx.

Rice husks, straw, sawdust or other "raw" cellulose material should not be incorporated into planting soil without aging or preferrably composting first.  Because the decomposition process will draw nutrients away from plant nutrition. .  For organic ingredients, stick with the composted or mined materials, real compost, peat moss, worm castings.  BTW, Termites go to solid wood and not sawdust, as far as I know

You don't state which province, but if you are referring to Amphur Mae Taeng northeast of Chiang Mai city then PM me or email to my user name at g mail. I have a referral.  

It is rather expensive to make a quality potting soil, so commercial mixes will cut corners and have a lot of cheap filler material. You can never know or completely trust the quality or amount of listed ingredients in the bagged commercial products. 

https://www.planetnatural.com/potting-mix-recipes/

Commercial Mixes

Most commercial potting mixes are the seller’s best attempt to provide for aeration, water retention and nutrients. Of course, not all commercial soils are the same. The old adage “you get what you pay for” can really come into play here. Avoid inexpensive soils that just say “topsoil” or “compost” on the label. That mysterious topsoil may be anything and could very well be old, tired soil that comes from land that’s been farmed to death. Poor topsoil can be completely depleted of nutrients, but rich in nasty chemical pesticides and herbicides, another leftover from life down on the farm. Something merely labeled “compost” could very well be made from toxic sludge (often called biosolids) or just ground up wood chips and nothing else. Play it safe and buy quality organic potting soil.

So what should you look for? “Certified Organic,” that’s what. Beyond that, look for specific ingredients. Don’t buy mystery soil. Remember the old sci/fi classic, Soylent Green? It pays to know the contents of your food or the food of your plants.

4 hours ago, connda said:

I mix the bag soil with sand and native red soil plus aged compost if I have any ready. 

If you have the clayey soil available, and a fine, washed mason's sand, and real compost, then why use the sack soil with unknown ingredients.

Make your own potting soil.  Here's a base mix suggestion, there are other recipies online:

Base Mix, by volume:

12 parts sphagnum peat

4 parts high-quality worm castings

8 parts pumice (or 6 pumice and 2 sharp mason’s sand)

2 parts Calcium bentonite 

1-2 parts high-quality compost (Biodynamic if available)

The clay component is usually missing from commercial potting mixes, but in my opinion it is important. Whether your native soil or a purchased sack calcium bentonite, it is essential for nutrient holding capacity, (CEC, cation exchange capacity).  Otherwise some vital nutrients are leached out rapidly with the frequent watering that container plantings usually get. 

https://www.tiannam.com/product/other/bentonite/

To this mix, add a mineralized, slow release COF (complete organic fertilizer) like OrganicTotto bokashi, or hopefully the BGS fertilizer blend coming out soon.  And then recharge the containers or raised beds annually with COF, or after each harvest, before the next planting. 

Attached is a COF recipe published by Michael Astera, author of The Ideal Soil.

The amounts are for 1000 sq feet = approx 100 sq meters.

BGS will have most of these bulk materials for sale, I hope. 

Michael's 1000sqft mix.docx

12 hours ago, huuwi said:

 

drtreelove, is this (humic acid from leonardite, like AgroLig) available in garden shops? is there a thai name for it? can you recomment some soil in bags.

thx.

https://agrolig-thailand.com/

I've been trying for years to find quality potting soil and organic fertilizer materials, but information on ingredients and processing is hard to come by.  Vendors usually don't know much about the product and BS is the norm.  So unfortunately I don't yet have a recommendation for sack potting soil, but Best Garden State is close to launching their organic materials product line on FB, Lazada and website.  I am not directly involved in the product development or sales at this time, but I trust they will have good products. 

Its always best to make your own blend, if you have the resources. 

"Are they any good or is this some cheap toxic waste, mean from dumping grounds or so?"

Assume that if you buy the cheapest material, that you are buying sacks of mixed waste sludge from 'dumping grounds', with heavy metals and all.  Unless you know the source or have it analysed. I wouldn't use it blindly for food producing plants, maybe ok for ornamentals.  If that's all you have or have already purchased it, add EM and a 'stable humus product' (humic acid from leonardite, like AgroLig), to neutralize some of the toxicity. 

On 4/28/2021 at 5:36 PM, djayz said:

1. Make sure there is good fencing all around the land.

2. Where are you going to get the water from? Mains? Well? Canal? How reliable is that water resource? 

3. Who's the boss/running the show? Personally, I never do business with friends or family. Things can (often do) get complicated, which can make things awkward. 

4. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.

Good luck and keep us posted. I for one would be interested in knowing more. 

 

 

Good advise.  Especially #4. 

It may be more risky than you think. Plant diseases are showing up that may not be entirely predictable or preventable. 

Put this in your pipe and smoke it: 

https://www.medicinalgenomics.com/applications/hop-latent-viroid-in-cannabis/

"...the viroid creates dud cannabis plants and often doesn’t show itself until the end of the growing process. For growers, Roach says this means a lot of money is wasted on the cultivation of impotent crops."https://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/cannabis-plants-in-monterey-county-are-dying-resulting-in-millions-of-dollars-in-damage/article_1d65f11c-be69-11eb-9db5-b784138d919c.html

This disease is not in Thailand as far as I know, - yet.

But will you be ready for the possibilities of insect pests, molds, mites, viruses, and viroids, including powdery mildew, botrytis, russet mites, fusarium, hops latent viroid, and lettuce chlorosis virus ?

I hate to be pessimistic, but in my opinion there are problems with the way cannabis is grown, whether for health or a high.

In spite of all the experts, sophisticated genetics, intensive management and product inputs, there are factors with basic growing conditions, soil and water management that can predispose the plants to pest and disease issues: 

Strains that are developed for marketable properties, but maybe without enough attention to disease resistance.

Intensive, closely spaced mono-cropping where pests and pathogens can run rampant, forced vegetative growth and flowering that weakens resistance, porous container substrates with low nutrient holding capacity, copious watering and leaching of nutrients, little or no mature beneficial soil biology. 

more info

Hop Latent Viroid in Cannabis | Medicinal Genomics

12 hours ago, covidiot said:

get those cannabis plants masked up, socially distanced, and vaccinated asap!

That's one of the problems.  Distancing isn't going to happen in an intense plant mono-cropping.  Pathogens just travel on down the row. 

A viroid disease is showing up in California cannabis grows, and in my opinion is demonstrating the weakness in plant health with current popular growing conditions and inadequate soil managment. 

https://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/local_news/cannabis-plants-in-monterey-county-are-dying-resulting-in-millions-of-dollars-in-damage/article_1d65f11c-be69-11eb-9db5-b784138d919c.html

On 5/25/2021 at 8:19 AM, tifino said:

speaking of the various Citrus tree related diseases/infestations etc

- does LOS have the Citrus Gall Wasp problem at all?  

 

I today after reading the OP went outside to check on my own Pomelo, Orange, Mandarin, and Meyer Lemon trees, to look out for the sap; but found the above generic scenario instead... 

 At first light I reckon tomorrow will be taken up half shaving one side of each of the larvae nests - my Meyer is full of that problem ???? 

Google has a lot on all these various problems, and suggested solutions...   

- For MY job, mrs will be finding out she's been sacrificed one of her vege peelers for the task

 

 

Interesting! But I'm not clear on your tree location, in LOS or Down Under?  I deal with gall wasps on other trees, but I haven't encounted it on citrus in Thailand.  Other growers may have more information.

You have identified a good IPM mechanical control method that is non chemical.  Although for large commercial plantings this may not be practical.

Peel and Reveal - Citrus Gall Wasp - Fact Sheets - Gardening Australia - GARDENING AUSTRALIA (abc.net.au)

Azadirachtin neem concentrate applications with the right timing and frequency may help. Its a potent insect pest repellent, anti-feedant and reproductive disruptor. Other botanicals are also repellents, rosemary, clove and other aromatic oils.

I hate to hear growers categorize any spraying as harmful pesticide use and ignore these options and say that they don't use pesticides. Hard chemistry pesticides okay, I agree. but "soft chemistry" biopestices like botanicals are useful and are non-toxic, and organic program compatible. But they have to be combined in a comprehensive program with good growing conditons, soil and water management, in order to be most effective.

Certis USA - Biopesticides for Crop Protection 

On 5/25/2021 at 8:08 AM, Saraburi121 said:

Much appreciated taking the time to give a detailed response for a post which I did not give enough information. 

Never had a soil test done which we need to. Have a Ph meter and the soil is 6.9 consistently.   Soil here is worn out I think from years of growing cassava and corn.  Just past my second year living here and persuaded the wife to plant a cover crop to rotate through the land we plant corn/cassava in.  Used the available soil fro the land along with some dried cow poop and left it set for a few months before planting the lime trees in concrete rings as a test bed.  High west exposure to sun, minimal east.  Its a tough place here weather wise,  lot of the rains miss and long dry spells. Temps in April near 40 and many days over 32.  Fertilize is pelletized chicken poop about every 6 months worked into the soil.  Deep water every week if needed. Tree health is ok right now and one tree has a lot of small limes.  Try to keep ground coconut husks on top of the soil but the damn chickens love scratching it off.   Do walk the land every morning.  Seems like the only thing that thrives here is Noi Na (custard apple) and cassava.   Noi Na love it here. We live in the mountains northwest of Pak Chong with well a red semi clay soil that drains well and leaves your feet stained red. 

 

Examined the branches and no boring holes nor has it been pruned since the dry season except for cutting off the dying limbs recently.  Even put alcohol on the snippers and let dry before going to the next tree.  Now same problem is affecting the kaffir limes and a flowering bush that I don't know the name of.  

 

I have not treated the lime trees with neem oil for a few weeks until the problem, had a few rains and should have. 

 

Its a rough environment here with the hot, rains then lack of rains.  Had no success growing chili peppers here as they get brown spots just before ripening.  Tried everything with chili peppers. My jalapeño, habanero and tomatoes get the same internal brown spots just before ripening.  Have beautiful healthy chili pepper plants but never get the ripened fruit.   

 

Not a professional farmer but love to grow things and trying to figure out why they don't.  Will not use pesticides which I am starting to think maybe you have to on some things where I live. 

 

 

That's better information.

My two satang: 

Without evidence of borer activity, (holes, galleries, larvae that can be chased out like DF suggested), then we are looking at a pathogen or environmental damage like drying and sunburn.

A pathogen would be a disease organism like bacterial gummosis, or a fungal canker disease. Phytophthora water mold is unlikely in this situation in my opinion.  Without the ability to get a positive indentification on a pest or a pathogen, I would treat it as physiological stress, (probably also compromised with nutrient deficiencies), which can be responsible for susceptibility to various pests or pathogens and abiotic disorders. 

Direct sun exposure is what citrus need, as long as they are adequately hydrated, but your climate and exposure may be extreme. Exposed woody parts, especially on young trees, can result in sun-scald of bark and underlying live tissues. The drying and burning can impair uptake of water and nutrients. Before the trees develop a full foliar canopy, you may consider filtered shade cloth for direct afternoon sun.  

In your extreme environment you really need to get the watering right (soil moisture meter reading wet 6" deep after watering, then allowed to dry to the lower moist range before watering again, not allowed to get completely dry) and to progressively improve the soil as best you can.  If you can find agricultural gypsum, that would be my first input. A couple of handfuls spread on the soil surface and watered in. This will add calcium and sulfur in a ration that will not raise the soil pH like ag lime will do.  Gypsum has multiple benefits for soil improvement, and Calcium is a major factor in building plant cell wall strength and resistance to disease and pest damage. Sulfur is another important nutrient and almost always deficient in soil tests that I do. Organic matter inputs, preferrably real compost, will help in lowering pH a little, and enhance the beneficial soil biological activity. EM or AACT (actively aerated compost tea) at least quarterly, would be a bonus for soil and plant health.  

Without soil testing and Rx amendments, the next best thing is a general purpose organic fertilizer program. Your aged chicken manure pellets should be okay, but don't dig too deep to work it in and damage surface absorbing roots, light scratching it into the soil surface is okay. Mulch is essential, but the chickens are scratching it up looking for bugs and worms, so you may consider fencing until the soil improvements can take effect and the plant health stabilizes. 

I recommend fertilizing with a COF (complete organic fertilizer ).  My friends at bestgardenstate.com are just about to launch their new line of organic fertizer products on the website, FB and Lazada, so keep watching.  Until then I recommend the bokashi fertilizer product from OrganicTotto.  I've used it and done trials with positive results. 

I haven't seen it. Where's Fruitman, or SoiDog2, or other fruit tree collectors?

But even if you could grow the tree, it doesn't mean that you will get a good crop of fruit. 

Temperature and Chill Requirements

Like other deciduous fruit trees, including apples, pears and peaches, cherry trees need a certain number of cold nights in order to produce maximum yield. Sweet cherry varieties need approximately 700 to 900 total hours of chill, or temperatures of 45 degrees Fahrenheit or less.

What about longan or lychee , although they need some chill days too, but not as much, Lychee more so. like 100 hours below 12 C. 

On 5/16/2021 at 3:35 AM, Tropposurfer said:

Don't put wood in the bottom you might just get a bacterial disease called phytophera introduced through the breakdown of the cellulose in the wood (which is bad bad bad for root systems even in veggies and if it develops will work through the ground and kill trees all around).

May I offer a clarification.  Although "wood in the bottom" would be a questionable practice in termite country, I don't believe that  wood as a building material would likely introduce Phytophthora root and crown rot.  This is a soil borne pathogen, which is not a bacterial disease, but a fungus-like organism called a "water mold".  Phytophthoras are there, waiting for the right conditions to proliferate in over-wet soil, so over-watering or anything that impairs drainage could be a causal factor in the development of root rot.

On 5/14/2021 at 3:28 PM, jeffandgop said:

I set up a reply yesterday to thank you but don't see it...so, thank you for your response and advice...I had read many of your posts and was hoping you'd might chime in....my first thoughts were birds, but when I saw the insects  in 2 instances on the fruit I wasn't sure that it is bird damage...now I believe that's what it is...I'll keep my eyes tuned and may bag as you suggested...the 2 years in which I was able to enjoy mature fruit from one of the two trees was all I had hoped for- creamy and buttery taste and made great guacamole......I'll post more photos as the fruit grows larger...

Sometimes we don't know which comes first, the bug or the bird.  Did the bugs start the feeding on the fruit and the bird came along to eat the bugs, or did the bird taste the fruit and the bugs came along to feed on the exposed fruit?  Bagging is a pain, but it may protect against both.  "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".  

Holes in Avocados and Avocado Tree Pests (sfgate.com)

You are assuming that an insect is doing the damage, but I suspect that the insects you see on the fruit are not the cause of the holes, but rather secondary opportunistic feeders attracted to the exposed tissues from what appears to be rodent or bird damage. 

But without an ID or photo of the pest actually present or feeding in the wound, then we are just guessing.

Exact pest ID and treatment may not be possible or practical.  Bag the fruit as it starts to develop.

If you really want to pursue possibilities for an ID, there is a pomology department at MaeJo university ag sciences where I have received good info in the past when we lived and farmed near there, but I forget names.  CMU ag dept is also a good resource.  There was a woman PhD pomology professor who headed the HLB - citrus greening research project who was very friendly and informative when I inquired about that disease . 

Take the damaged fruit itself as a sample. You may get a bit of a run around at first but if you are patient and lucky you will eventually get to see a knowledgeable, English-fluent  professor. 

4 hours ago, cooked said:

It doesn't really work anywhere, maybe in the first springtime (what's the equivalent to that here?), but after that many flowers disappear. Some are annuals, so you have to mow after their seeding, which in its turn will disturb other flowers that are not yet matured. Maintenance free? I got quite cynical about the natural garden movement selling themselves as maintenance free to individuals that were too lazy to mow their lawns.  That tangle of grasses, flowers etc certainly couldn't be cut with a normal lawn mower and often I would use a scythe. . The material then had to be gathered up and disposed of, maybe waiting a few days for the seeds to ripen and sow themselves out.

Maybe I'm a rotten gardener but I never got this stuff to work for more than one season.

It depends on what you plant.  There are durable, low maintenance, perennial flowering ground covers that squeeze out weeds once established.  Ask at a local garden center or a landscape designer.  

Plant Lists - Thai Garden Design - The Thai Landscaping Experts

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. The US embassy along with others stopped doing a income affidavit at the end of 2018. Now you need to prove your income by way of monthly transfers of 65k baht into a Thai bank account from abroad. Some offices will accept 2 or 3 months of transfers for a new extension application instead of 12 months of transfers.

2. Your best option may be to transfer 800k baht into a Thai bank. 

If you enter visa exempt or on a tourist visa visa you could apply for a 90 day non-o visa entry at immigration. At that time you would need 800k baht in the bank on the day you apply. The latest list of requirements for the visa application does not show the 65k baht of transfers on it and only shows proof from a embassy that you can no longer get.

When you apply for the one year extension you will need to show 800k baht in a Thai bank for 2 months on the day you apply.

3. I suggest you have proof you have been vaccinated. If they reinstate it you would only need 7 days of quarantine after entering the country instead of 10 or 14 days.

 

I'm confused.  I thought that the 7 and 10 days quarantine was nixed and we are back to 14 days for all. 

I'm in the same boat, in California and away from Thai home and wife for two years with hip replacement surgeries.  I just booked an airline flight for July and applied for e-visa.  The LA consulate website indicates that there is no current option for 7 or 10 day ASQ.  Or has this changed in the last couple of days? 

BTW UbonJoe, thanks for years of dedicated service on this forum and clear, intelligent information.  

3 hours ago, Daffy D said:

All the weed killers I've used had Glyphosate in them.

 

If you read the article https://lazygardens.blogspot.com/2015/06/how-to-kill-bermuda-grass-in-10-easy.html as in my original post even with Glyphosate this Bermuda Grass is almost impossible to get rid of.

That's a good article with some important points.

Also, to improve the efficacy of glyphosate products, use ammonium sulfate 21-0-0. Add to the water and agitate before you add the glyphosate product. 

(17 lbs of 21-0-0 per 100 gals water = 20 grams per liter if my math is correct) 

I am not advocating the widespread use of glyphosate, but it is in fact the most effective and least toxic herbicide for unwanted grasses, if used responsibly and conservatively.  If applied in excess where soil is drenched, glyphosate will affect the soil chemistry and growing conditions for subsequent cropping. So best to use only in areas that will not be planted.

Read the label and mix according to directions. A 48% glyphosate active ingredient can be mixed to a 2% to 4% maximum solution and be very effective on burmuda.  That's 2.5 to 5 liquid ounces per gallon of water.

Spray mist the foliage only and don't drench the soil. Saturating the soil will not help and will only increase environmental contamination. 

But before you use an herbicide, consider other options:

Black plastic tarping of the area to exclude sunlight to the grass until it dies. 

Digging it out, and repeat until eradicated. 

In order for Glyphosate to be effective
it needs to be absorbed into the plant.
In soft water Glyphosate has no problems in being absorbed,
however; in hard water Glyphosate will be "tied up"
and not be absorbed as readily.
This is known as "hard water antagonism".
Hard water contains high concentrations of the soluble salts, calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++).
When these are present in your spray water
the Glyphosate, which is negatively charged,
will combine with them to form Glyphosate-Magnesium
and Glyphosate-Calcium compounds.
These compounds are not as easily absorbed by the plant
and the result is poor uptake and poor weed control.

So how can growers increase the efficacy of
their Glyphosate treatments?
A common practice has been
to add a surfactant to the spray tank,
this allows the Glyphosate spray solution
to spread across the leaf surface better
and the result is greater absorption into the leaf.
Some Glyphosate products
now have the surfactant in them such as "Roundup Ultra".
Roundup Ultra does not solve the hard water antagonism problem by the addition of a surfactant though,
as the surfactant alone does not address this problem.

The hard water problem is best solved by
adding 17 pounds of ammonium sulfate per 100 gallons
to the spray water before the Glyphosate is added.

Urea - Ammonium Nitrate (28% liquid nitrogen)
will also improve the efficacy of Glyphosate,
but not as well a the Ammonium sulfate.

The addition of this compound to the spray water does two things.
First, the sulfate ions tie up the calcium and magnesium ions
by forming conjugate salts and
secondly, some of the Glyphosate ends up as
a Glyphosate-Ammonium compound
which some species of weeds preferentially absorb
into their leaf tissue over Glyphosate alone.

Reduced gallons of spray solution per acre will also have the effect of increasing the efficacy of the Glyphosate.
Fewer gallons of water equals fewer calcium and magnesium ions to tie up the Glyphosate.

So, if you have had less than ideal performance from your glyphosate product and you think your water is on the hard side, then consider addressing the problem using ammoniun sulfate.

http://www.maes.msu....rt/roundup.html
Jim Johnson, Emeritus Professor, Entomology, MSU
Gary E. Thornton
District Fruit IPM Agent
Michigan State University