drtreelove

Thank God, NO.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION

Miracle-Gro Evergreen Natural 4 in 1 Lawn Food will not work on mature weeds already present in the lawn, it will only prevent the growth of new weeds.

Since Miracle-Gro Evergreen Natural 4 in 1 Lawn Food impacts the establishment of new weeds, the effects may not be visible the first 3 months after spreading.

Avoid mowing the lawn 2-3 days before and after treatment. Do not use the first 4 mowings after treatment for mulching. They will be safe to use after being thoroughly composted for 6 months.

Staining

Apply this product very carefully as it will cause brown stains on any surface it comes into contact with, e.g., clothing, tarmac drives, paving, decking and kitchen floors. Note this list is not exhaustive. Do not walk on the treated area and keep children and pets away from the area until the product is thoroughly watered in, the granules have dissolved completely and the grass is dry; otherwise, it will stick to shoes or pets’ feet and be spread outside the treated area. Clean up any spillages.

Miracle-Gro EverGreen Natural 4 in 1 can be used around trees in the lawn, but avoid contact with foliage. Avoid drift onto nearby flowers, shrubs, fruit trees, vegetables, ponds or streams.

Cautions

Do not apply to lawns less than 6 months old. Do not apply during prolonged dry periods (drought), frosty weather or when temperatures exceed 25°C.

Try Nong Nooch nursery and landscaping division. 

One of the most beautiful Garden in the world - Nong Nooch Tropical Garden & Cultural Village Largest botanical garden in South East Asia

4 minutes ago, drtreelove said:

Yes, glyphosate would be my product of choice but with considerations. It can and will translocate thought root grafts into nearby trees, so use with caution.  And no need to drill holes. re-cut the stump surface if possible and paint or spray the outer circumference (cambium growing layer and sapwood) with a 20-25% active ingredient solution (48% glyphosate diluted with equal part water).  Don't waste drilling or spraying the interior inactive heartwood. Only the outer circumference can absorb and translocate the chemistry. 

 

If there is no access to re-cut the stump, then spray the foliage that is sprouting from the stump. This may take repeated applications until the stump no longer resprouts. 

 

If you can't get to the stump to spray it all the way around, then maybe reach under the deck with a pole saw and cut off the sprouts. Repeat this until it no longer re-sprouts.  

 

If none of this is possible due to tight access restrictions, then follow the other advisors in removing the deck surface for access. 

FYI, worth the mention, there is another chemical herbicide that is highly effective and doesn't require a fresh cut for absorption. But I haven't seen it in Thailand.   In managing a highly researched cut-stump treatment program for a large public utilities company, besides the glyphosate, I have also used Garlon 4 Ultra (Triclopyr-ester).  This can be sprayed on the bark of the lower stump and root collar for penetration through the bark to kill the growing layer, best with a surfactant like MSO methylated seed oil or diesel oil (yes smelly). 

The use of herbicides in this type of treatment should not include application to the soil surface, so environmental contamination is minimal. But be aware that the active ingredients as well as the surfactants can volitalize into a gaseous drift and contaminate nearby plantings. 

Yes, glyphosate would be my product of choice but with considerations. It can and will translocate thought root grafts into nearby trees, so use with caution.  And no need to drill holes. re-cut the stump surface if possible and paint or spray the outer circumference (cambium growing layer and sapwood) with a 20-25% active ingredient solution (48% glyphosate diluted with equal part water).  Don't waste drilling or spraying the interior inactive heartwood. Only the outer circumference can absorb and translocate the chemistry. 

If there is no access to re-cut the stump, then spray the foliage that is sprouting from the stump. This may take repeated applications until the stump no longer resprouts. 

If you can't get to the stump to spray it all the way around, then maybe reach under the deck with a pole saw and cut off the sprouts. Repeat this until it no longer re-sprouts.  

If none of this is possible due to tight access restrictions, then follow the other advisors in removing the deck surface for access. 

18 hours ago, notrub said:

BTW.  Be aware.  A saber saw is a powerful tool.  It is not some toy electric screwdriver.  When you are using it be careful.  Not only about cutting off your thumb or something.  If the blade is pinched all the power going to the blade quickly transfers to your hand/arm and jerks it with the same power.  If your fingers are exposed to, say, a branch or a bit of a cement wall or whatever they could be badly scraped or crushed.  Or you could be thrown off balance and fall off a ladder.  All those pictures illustrating smiling people trimming trees with one hand are misleading.  This is a tool that must be treated with respect.

And what about the danger to the poor trees.  As a tree surgeon, people talking about crude pruning with sawzalls and bow saws makes me cringe. I realize that most people think of trees and property and not as living things.  Demolition is one thing, but if anyone cares, there are best managment practices for pruning. Chose a sharp tri-cut blade pruning saw and cut just outside the branch collar, to promote wound closure and to minimize damage and fungal infection. 

I've nothing against the bananas, I planted some Gluai Nam Wa offshoots from our friend's farm, at our home yesterday .  Mosquitoes and knats? I didn't think about it but I'll deal with it when the time comes, sanitation, botanical insect repellent is easy enough for a small planting.  

But when I saw the post about having 1 rai and not knowing what to do with it, I remembered this old post that I saved, from Tim, CNXPAT - Growing Makua (attached).  I wish there were more posts like this, on this fading forum. 

I used this information for a garden planting in Santa Cruz California. My wife Bee brought Thai makua seeds to the US, (she can't live without her geng keow wan,  and the Thai restaurants weren't quite up to her green curry standards).  We planted a couple of rows. 

The heads up about susceptibility to fungal pathogens was useful, but I converted the whole concept of soil fertility and pest/disease control to a 'high nutrient density', organic methods and materials approach, with soil testing, Rx mineral and biological amendments, and preventive botanicals and biologicals.  We had healthy, pest and disease free makua and other veggies, and lots of good geng keow wan. 

Makua growing instructions (2018_05_25 14_55_25 UTC).pdf

4 hours ago, Carrbhoy said:

I hope flights will be an option early Nov and will of course track the situation closely.

 

Just trying to establish what the current rules / guidelines are for leaving ASQ Bangkok and travelling to CM. Hoping to avoid the need for doing quarantine twice - even self isolation in CM after ASQ 15 days doesn’t appeal.

I was released from Bangkok ASQ on July 23rd.  My Thai step-daughter and husband, Samut Prakan residents (license plates) picked me up at the hotel and drove me to Chiang Mai. There were two or three standard illegal immigrant checkpoints along the way but we were waved through. At the primary Chiang Mai Covid checkpoint on the 11 SuperHwy, we had to stop and show paperwork.  (It appeared that we could have exited at the 121 ring road or other and avoided it, but we chose to do the right thing and comply).

My daughter who is quite savvy on all things medical and technical had pre-registered our trip online and had everything together for the three of us. We were checked and ordered to proceed to Arcade bus station where there was a Covid screening/testing facility set up. Due to my US vaccination and ASQ documents, I didn't even have to get out of the car.  She and husband had current negative Covid test results and were cleared after filling out forms. 

The day after arriving at home in Sansai, the pooyai baan and wife, who are quite friendly with my wife, came around to document my paperwork and request that I stay at home for two weeks. There was no formal order or further follow up. 

That was almost a month ago, but I hope that helps, Don

The short answer is, I haven't seen Milky Spore or nematodes offered for sale in Thailand, even at an ag shop I use near MaeJo University, which carries more organic program materials than most, but that doesn't mean they are not out there, search the online retailers.

Try "green maskaradine fungus"  Metarhizium anisopliae, for biological control of the grubs.  

The longer answer, excuse my preaching, is try to look at the bigger picture and how to promote condtions that will naturally control pests and build resistance.  A biologically active soil already has a multitude of beneficial bacteria and fungi, nematodes, micro arthropods, etc that keep things in balance. Read "Teaming With Microbes" or see the wealth of YouTube videos, especially Soil-Food-Web subject.  

Raised beds don't always have the benefit of established soil biology, depending on what kind of soil or engineered substrate that you have used as a growing medium.  Raised bed and container growers often use sterile medium due to poor drainage with native clayey soils, and fear of soil borne pathogens, but in so doing they set up a situation where you have to introduce/inoculate with beneficials, or suffer the consequences of trying to keep up with the deficiencies and imblances with guess work, always searching for a curative product.  Soil-less, clay-deficient substrates usually do not have good nutrient holding capacity and often drain too fast and leach nutrients.  High NPK chemical fertilizers are harmful to the soil biology. 

1 minute ago, tonray said:

Ok...I heard you the first two times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, sending malfunction. 

On 8/3/2021 at 9:31 AM, tonray said:

First off....I'll try to convince you to get rid of the grass and go with a lower maintenance/better for the environment solution..(btw...I am planning the same...grass and shrubs out, pavers and stones in...with container grown drought resistant plants for greenery and color).

 

If you insist on having a lawn....first step you need to assess is soil PH and adjust that. Normally you would apply lime to the lawn once or twice a year to keep that PH in the optimum level for grass, which is around 6-7. When the lawn gets too acidic...it limits availability of nutrients and allows weeds which are much more opportunistic to thrive.

 

Second step after you've adjusted PH is to get a good conbination fertilizer/selective weed killer and apply per manufacturer's directions. Most larger garden centers can provide...or even ask around at HomePro/ThaiWatsadu. 

 

But the key is creating and maintaining the proper growing environment first before you start anything else.

I agree with the objective of finding alternatives to turf.  But regarding the advice to focus on soil pH and liming is misguided and obsolete, in my opinion. Calcium is a vital plant nutrient, but lime is not always appropriate or needed. Soil pH will self-adjust to optimum balance with good soil fertility and water management. 

Modern soil management science and practices are based on soil testing and not guess work.  The focus is on nutrient management, mineral balancing and promoting good condtions for the all-important soil biology to thrive. Micro-organisms do most of the work in maintaining plant health, resistance to pests and diseases, and also weed control if you let them.  The vicious cycle of chemical dependency is a losing battle. With high NPK chemical fertilizers and herbicides, you will kill off the soil biology and the lawn will degrade in time. Go with organic lawn care. 

Organic Lawn Care 101 - Maintaining a Chemical-Free Lawn | Planet Natural

The broad-leaf weed control products that are used in turf can be risky for your other plantings, (as well as for people and pets).  The some of the active ingredients and surfactants in common weed control products can be taken up by tree and shrub roots, or volatilize into a gaseous drift and damage or kill nearby plantings of sensitive species, especially in high ambient temperature (over 27C, 80F).  As a consulting arborist I have seen this time and again, mysterious leaf patterns of discoloration, shriveling, decline and die-back. I have confirmed diagnosis with plant pathology and toxicity lab reports. 

During a transition period, as you build soil health with organic matter and complete organic fertilizer, you can spot spray weeds as well as mechanical removal.  

A Healthy Lawn Is A Weed-Free Lawn

The key to maintaining a weed-free lawn without relying heavily on chemical herbicide is two-fold: A) Keep your lawn as healthy as possible, so weeds don’t stand a chance, and B) reduce the number of herbicides to the barest necessity.

How To Get Organic Lawn Care And Zap Weeds At The Same Time (pureprairieorganics.com)

On 8/3/2021 at 9:31 AM, tonray said:

First off....I'll try to convince you to get rid of the grass and go with a lower maintenance/better for the environment solution..(btw...I am planning the same...grass and shrubs out, pavers and stones in...with container grown drought resistant plants for greenery and color).

 

If you insist on having a lawn....first step you need to assess is soil PH and adjust that. Normally you would apply lime to the lawn once or twice a year to keep that PH in the optimum level for grass, which is around 6-7. When the lawn gets too acidic...it limits availability of nutrients and allows weeds which are much more opportunistic to thrive.

 

Second step after you've adjusted PH is to get a good conbination fertilizer/selective weed killer and apply per manufacturer's directions. Most larger garden centers can provide...or even ask around at HomePro/ThaiWatsadu. 

 

But the key is creating and maintaining the proper growing environment first before you start anything else.

I agree with the objective of finding alternatives to turf.  But regarding the advice to focus on soil pH and liming is misguided and obsolete, in my opinion. Calcium is a vital plant nutrient, but lime is not always appropriate or needed. Soil pH will self-adjust to optimum balance with good soil fertility and water management. 

Modern soil management science and practices are based on soil testing and not guess work.  The focus is on nutrient management, mineral balancing and promoting good condtions for the all-important soil biology to thrive. Micro-organisms do most of the work in maintaining plant health, resistance to pests and diseases, and also weed control if you let them.  The vicious cycle of chemical dependency is a losing battle. With high NPK chemical fertilizers and herbicides, you will kill off the soil biology and the lawn will degrade in time. Go with organic lawn care. 

Organic Lawn Care 101 - Maintaining a Chemical-Free Lawn | Planet Natural

The broad-leaf weed control products that are used in turf can be risky for your other plantings, (as well as for people and pets).  The some of the active ingredients and surfactants in common weed control products can be taken up by tree and shrub roots, or volatilize into a gaseous drift and damage or kill nearby plantings of sensitive species, especially in high ambient temperature (over 27C, 80F).  As a consulting arborist I have seen this time and again, mysterious leaf patterns of discoloration, shriveling, decline and die-back. I have confirmed diagnosis with plant pathology and toxicity lab reports. 

During a transition period, as you build soil health with organic matter and complete organic fertilizer, you can spot spray weeds as well as mechanical removal.  

A Healthy Lawn Is A Weed-Free Lawn

The key to maintaining a weed-free lawn without relying heavily on chemical herbicide is two-fold: A) Keep your lawn as healthy as possible, so weeds don’t stand a chance, and B) reduce the number of herbicides to the barest necessity.

How To Get Organic Lawn Care And Zap Weeds At The Same Time (pureprairieorganics.com)

On 8/3/2021 at 9:31 AM, tonray said:

First off....I'll try to convince you to get rid of the grass and go with a lower maintenance/better for the environment solution..(btw...I am planning the same...grass and shrubs out, pavers and stones in...with container grown drought resistant plants for greenery and color).

 

If you insist on having a lawn....first step you need to assess is soil PH and adjust that. Normally you would apply lime to the lawn once or twice a year to keep that PH in the optimum level for grass, which is around 6-7. When the lawn gets too acidic...it limits availability of nutrients and allows weeds which are much more opportunistic to thrive.

 

Second step after you've adjusted PH is to get a good conbination fertilizer/selective weed killer and apply per manufacturer's directions. Most larger garden centers can provide...or even ask around at HomePro/ThaiWatsadu. 

 

But the key is creating and maintaining the proper growing environment first before you start anything else.

I agree with the objective of finding alternatives to turf.  But regarding the advice to focus on soil pH and liming is misguided and obsolete, in my opinion. Calcium is a vital plant nutrient, but lime is not always appropriate or needed. Soil pH will self-adjust to optimum balance with good soil fertility and water management. 

Modern soil management science and practices are based on soil testing and not guess work.  The focus is on nutrient management, mineral balancing and promoting good condtions for the all-important soil biology to thrive. Micro-organisms do most of the work in maintaining plant health, resistance to pests and diseases, and also weed control if you let them.  The vicious cycle of chemical dependency is a losing battle. With high NPK chemical fertilizers and herbicides, you will kill off the soil biology and the lawn will degrade in time. Go with organic lawn care. 

Organic Lawn Care 101 - Maintaining a Chemical-Free Lawn | Planet Natural

The broad-leaf weed control products that are used in turf can be risky for your other plantings, (as well as for people and pets).  The some of the active ingredients and surfactants in common weed control products can be taken up by tree and shrub roots, or volatilize into a gaseous drift and damage or kill nearby plantings of sensitive species, especially in high ambient temperature (over 27C, 80F).  As a consulting arborist I have seen this time and again, mysterious leaf patterns of discoloration, shriveling, decline and die-back. I have confirmed diagnosis with plant pathology and toxicity lab reports. 

During a transition period, as you build soil health with organic matter and complete organic fertilizer, you can spot spray weeds as well as mechanical removal.  

A Healthy Lawn Is A Weed-Free Lawn

The key to maintaining a weed-free lawn without relying heavily on chemical herbicide is two-fold: A) Keep your lawn as healthy as possible, so weeds don’t stand a chance, and B) reduce the number of herbicides to the barest necessity.

How To Get Organic Lawn Care And Zap Weeds At The Same Time (pureprairieorganics.com)

On 8/3/2021 at 9:31 AM, tonray said:

First off....I'll try to convince you to get rid of the grass and go with a lower maintenance/better for the environment solution..(btw...I am planning the same...grass and shrubs out, pavers and stones in...with container grown drought resistant plants for greenery and color).

 

If you insist on having a lawn....first step you need to assess is soil PH and adjust that. Normally you would apply lime to the lawn once or twice a year to keep that PH in the optimum level for grass, which is around 6-7. When the lawn gets too acidic...it limits availability of nutrients and allows weeds which are much more opportunistic to thrive.

 

Second step after you've adjusted PH is to get a good conbination fertilizer/selective weed killer and apply per manufacturer's directions. Most larger garden centers can provide...or even ask around at HomePro/ThaiWatsadu. 

 

But the key is creating and maintaining the proper growing environment first before you start anything else.

I agree with the objective of finding alternatives to turf.  But regarding the advice to focus on soil pH and liming is misguided and obsolete, in my opinion. Calcium is a vital plant nutrient, but lime is not always appropriate or needed. Soil pH will self-adjust to optimum balance with good soil fertility and water management. 

Modern soil management science and practices are based on soil testing and not guess work.  The focus is on nutrient management, mineral balancing and promoting good condtions for the all-important soil biology to thrive. Micro-organisms do most of the work in maintaining plant health, resistance to pests and diseases, and also weed control if you let them.  The vicious cycle of chemical dependency is a losing battle. With high NPK chemical fertilizers and herbicides, you will kill off the soil biology and the lawn will degrade in time. Go with organic lawn care. 

Organic Lawn Care 101 - Maintaining a Chemical-Free Lawn | Planet Natural

The broad-leaf weed control products that are used in turf can be risky for your other plantings, (as well as for people and pets).  The some of the active ingredients and surfactants in common weed control products can be taken up by tree and shrub roots, or volatilize into a gaseous drift and damage or kill nearby plantings of sensitive species, especially in high ambient temperature (over 27C, 80F).  As a consulting arborist I have seen this time and again, mysterious leaf patterns of discoloration, shriveling, decline and die-back. I have confirmed diagnosis with plant pathology and toxicity lab reports. 

During a transition period, as you build soil health with organic matter and complete organic fertilizer, you can spot spray weeds as well as mechanical removal.  

A Healthy Lawn Is A Weed-Free Lawn

The key to maintaining a weed-free lawn without relying heavily on chemical herbicide is two-fold: A) Keep your lawn as healthy as possible, so weeds don’t stand a chance, and B) reduce the number of herbicides to the barest necessity.

How To Get Organic Lawn Care And Zap Weeds At The Same Time (pureprairieorganics.com)

On 8/1/2021 at 7:05 PM, IsaanAussie said:

Is this forum still active? Good question. Format then name changes seem to have diminished interest from long term posters like me. Definitely a very slow traffic flow. 

 

Yes, let's keep it active!  In my opinion this is one of the most important discussions that has taken place here and I'm grateful to SBF for the inspiration and the links and to others for their contributions. 

I was recently released from solitary confinement, (also known as ASQ for two weeks in a Bangkok hotel).  I prepared myself mentally for the experience and brought reading material and YouTube video links, as well as an online solo exercise program.  It wasn't too bad, especially since I made good use of the time.  It gave me a chance to dig in to this material in more depth than I  had previously and its a mind blower.  

There is information being presented by Dr Christine Jones, Dr Elaine Ingham, Gabe Brown, Graeme Sait and others that SBF provided links for, that could be a game changer for climate change issues, regenerating depleted and misused soils, and potential profitability for farmers. 

One of SBFs links led me to some info in Thai about a German/Thai cooperative. Anybody had any direct experience with GIZ projects? 

Sustainable Agrifood in ASEAN (asean-agrifood.org)

Factsheet_Strengthening-Climate-Smart-Rice-Value-Chains_TH_CLEAN.pdf

https://www.asean-agrifood.org/modules-thailand-oil-palm-smallholder-academy-topsa/

1.1-What-is-RSPO.pdf

TOPSA_Final21_12_2020.pdf (asean-agrifood.org) Sustainable Agrifood in ASEAN (asean-agrifood.org)

Publications | Sustainable Agrifood System in ASEAN (asean-agrifood.org)

Factsheets | Sustainable Agrifood System in ASEAN (asean-agrifood.org)

8 hours ago, IgboChief said:

Trust me, there are. Few of 40m plus, no hard wood though. Mostly Mango trees, Lam Yai, Litchi and Coconut palms. Plus a few Makham and Baelfruit. Bananas and smaller trees which I do not know. The picture shows a small angle of the front side towards the roads.

 

I definitely have lots of cicadas. They make a hellish noise during the summer season. And they build chimneys too, just not THESE chimneys.

Am convinced now it is the crayfish. Installed two cages with bait, lets see what will happen. Ordered 25kg Lye and heavy duty rubber gloves on Lazada too (well, my daughter did.)

 

 

Lye or lime?  If lye, you may not need to worry about mowing the grass any more. If lime, be sure that a soil pH test indicates acidity, or you may be driving the alkalinity too high.  In either case, I don't think either is appropriate for the cicada control. 

I'm not sure about details of the cicada life cycle here, but we just had a giant cicada turn up in our yard here in Chiang Mai, so that indicates it is the season for emergence of adults. If that is what is happening in your yard, then the timing may be past for control of the nymphs in the soil.  So it may be useless and a waste to apply harsh chemical insecticides like Sevin (a carbamate that really should be avoided for the toxicity issues, and is not necessary) or Reclaim IT (bifenthrin, a potent pyrethoid, less toxic but not without some concerns, effective for turf grubs but hell on beneficial soil biology). 

As for the cicada turrets, I'm not a golfer but maybe a 9-iron would give you the heavy metal to level the field and be able to pick up the clods, and save your mower blades. 

As for the cicada concert, my daughter says she prefers her headphones and BlackPink. 

On 7/25/2021 at 5:12 PM, rwill said:

If you have a local fertilizer store I would go show them and get their advice.

Poor suggestion in my opinion, local garden shops will likely recommend a high NPK chemical fertilizer and or chemical fungicide, which will exacerbate the susceptibility to the common plumeria problems like rust-fungus infection and mealybugs pest infestation, etc. 

Use a new generation COF (complete organic fertilizer) like the "bokashi" from Organic Totto, or the excellent new line of organics from Best Garden State on Facebook. There is a revolution going on with emerging science and profound positive experiences with organic and regenerative agricultural and horticultural methods and materials. 

Other suggestions here about the tiny pot, well drained soil etc are right-on in my opinion.  Plant health care is primarily all about species/variety/cultivar selection and placement with compatible plantings, good growing conditions, soil and water management.  With the right conditions and management, plants have remarkable capacity to fullfil their genetic potential and for resistance to pests and diseases. 

TV member Seajae is a plumeria expert and collector. Maybe he will comment. 

Yes, comfrey grows well in Thailand. I have grown it in Chiang Mai from an expat farmer friend's gift of some fresh root material.  I've never seen it for sale.  Some countries have banned it due to reports of toxicity. I don't think thats the case with Thailand, it is more of a matter of unfamiliarity and lack of demand. Thai farmers that I know have never seen it and its not part of Thai, Ayurvedic or Chinese traditonal medicine as far as I know. 

In the 1970s - 80s as an active tree worker and martial arts enthusiast, I took a beating almost every day and sought out traditional and folk herbal remedies to deal with trauma and pain and to keep-on keeping-on.  I made poltices with crushed comfrey leaves for external compresses, and consumed capsules of powdered root. I liked the healing effects I experienced, but I was doing a lot of other self help herbal and chi kung practices at the same time. I read reports of remarkable healing experiences and regeneration of burned and abraded skin, and of course the traditional use for acceleration of broken bone healing. 

I did not become aware of the bad press on toxicity and restrictions in use until the late 90s. I don't know when this all came out. I wasn't sure about it because the negative side effects were not part of my experience, but I discontinued using it as medicine.

I still grew it for use it for composting material, its great for bulk green/nitrogen component in "hot composting", and it grows like a weed wherever you plant a piece of a root and water it.  I've read some opinions that it shouldn't even be used in compost, but I have a hard time buying that based on personal experience.  I haven't seen the science behind the fears. Please let me know if you have. 

If you or anyone else finds some, i would appreciate a tip on where to find a plant or a piece of fresh root.  I'm just back in Chiang Mai and starting a small home veggie garden and composting at our new home. (On a mission to transform some nasty mooban fill dirt into a patch of fertile soil to grow some organic, nutrient-dense food items.) 

How to Grow Comfrey (thespruce.com)

21 hours ago, islandguy said:

Thanks for your good advice. My challenge is that our fruit tree area was created to concentrate abd minimize the space used so as to emphasize flowering species elsewhere, so we need to either take out half the fruit trees or prune to keep smaller. One of our friends has the biggest lychee tree I’ve ever seen and it is a real beauty. Last year it had abundant fruit and this year very little. I’ll take your advice to lightly prune the lychees for now, and see what next year brings.

Take out trees or prune to keep smaller, this is a hard choice. But I would vote for the removals, to make adequate space for the remaining trees to grow into maturity.  I have multiple reasons for this opinion, besides my love of natural form and beauty of trees, and abhorrence of over-pruning and the distorted, excessive growth reactions.  Also, there is the pysiological stress created by over-pruning and the excessive growth that results when the trees have to refoliate and use stored sugars. And it increases your pruning frequency cycle. 

From a paper on lychee growing:   "heavy pruning should be avoided as it induces profuse vegetative growth instead of floral growth."

Your property is kind of borderline for good lychee fruiting isn't it?  They need a chill factor.  I know most of the orchards I've seen are at higher elevations. There are various varieties and that may make a difference. 

The CMU Site B orchard on Doi Pui is just below the summit at about 1200m. 

 "Lychee is observed to thrive at elevations ranging from 1,000 to 1,380 meters above sea level."  

Consider a palm. A smaller, ornamental variety, Kentia, Chamaedorea or Phoenix roebelenii (pigmy date palm). 

It's hard to find a flowering tree or large shrub that doesn't produce some nuisance leaf drop, flower or seed litter. 

Either that or change your mind.  It's hard for me to imagine sacrificing one of the most desirable fragrant flowering plants in the world to avoid a little clean up meditation opportunity each day. Or give the wife or kid a chore, or hire a gardener. 

The plumeria can perhaps be gradually reduced in height by drop-crotch pruning technique, to fill out at a lower height. With the right soil fertility and water management I've been able to build resistance to disease and prevent rust fungus and excessive leaf drop. Flowers, I leave lay, or if necessary gather them up and get high on the intoxicating fragrance before spreading as mulch or composting them. 

On 7/9/2021 at 8:57 PM, 3STTW said:

Crikey, it gets worse! Obviously the wifey at the garden shop isn't too interested in organic horticulture.

 

Okay, so I'm going to try the EM on the lawns and see if that improves their condition.

 

I bought 3x 50gm pots of the Trisan from Lazibaba, is there any advantage to adding this to the EM solution to kill off the mushroom spores - or should I just stick with the EM for now and let the microbes do the work?

 

On another note, we're going to start some tomato plants at the weekend, our previous efforts have been plagued by leaf miners and the plants have been very sickly from 6" of growth upwards. This time around we're using some German potting soil and keeping the pots off the ground, mix in some Perlite and add some neem compost which just arrived. Apparently, the neem compost helps the plant fight off the leaf miners and we also have a neem-based liquid which can dilute and use as a pesticide spray.

 

My darling wife said "best of luck with that!" having had several failed attempts with tomatoes, okra, squash and so on. If we can just find the right formula for soil, feed and pesticide, it would be a real achievement and would make her very happy! So any advice would be thoroughly appreciated.

With some guess-work involved in remote advise without seeing the site or knowing all the conditions, I would say use the EM first. There may be some antagonistic action with the EM biology and the Trichoderma, one nullifying the other, but I'm not sure. Use the Trisan mixed in with your new potting soil, which would be a good pre-emptive strike against soil borne pathogens.

Neem seed oil extracts are potent insect and mite repellents. By-products of the extraction process and vegetative material is less potent by can still be somewhat useful. The actual product ingredients, concentration of the active ingredients, and effectiveness can vary considerably.  Some products are very dilute and just using the popular 'neem" term as a marketing ploy.  You probably can't go wrong with the neem compost, although I would not expect 100% effective pest control.  

The neem seed oil extract that is most potent and effective for arthopod pest control, is Azadirachtin concentrate. ("Aza" is one compontent of the complex neem biochemistry) If that is the "neem based liquid" you have, then hopefully its a good quality product and you can use that as a foliar (under side of leaves too), stem, soil surface spray every two weeks for prevention of infestation of the tomato leaf miner. The neem products are not highly curative, they will not be effective for an advanced infestation. This principal is important to understand for all organic program pest and disease managment, including biological fungicide like the Trisan: It's important to start preventive treatments early and not to think of it as a cure.   FactsheetUniversalTemplateV2 (plantwise.org)

For fertilizer, I recommend incorporating a COF (complete organic fertilizer) into the potting soil, or if already planted, then use it as a top dressing, or lightly incorporated into the soil surface without disturbing roots. The COF which is available in Thailand which I have used and trialed at several friends gardens and farms with great results, is a "bokashi" (complete plant nutrition, mineralized with built-in EM from the original Japanese formula) from Organic Totto. See attached file.

Bokashi fertilizer.docx

Mancozeb is a last resort in a vicious cycle that you get into with chemical fertilizers that are detrimental to soil health, which creates susceptibility to disease, and then trying to control the diseases with chemical fungicides.

Mancozeb — toxicity, side effects, diseases and environmental impacts (naturalpedia.com)

Did you follow up on Evolare's recommendations for soil building from the previous discussion?  Don't underestimate the benefits of getting the soil management right, which helps the plants build natural resistance to pests and diseases.  

Bacillus subtilis and other biological fungicides do not work in the same way that chemical fungicides work.  Wrong expectations and incomplete management are the reason that growers say they don't work. They are only effective as one component a comprehensive program that includes good soil and water managment. 

My wife and I have had home gardens in California and Chiang Mai, with minimal pest and disease problems for chillies and other plants.  But I always do soil testing with the same lab that Evolare uses (most local labs incl universites are chemical program oriented for jacking up maximum yield, and not oriented for complete nutrition, high nutrient density, high quality )..

When starting a new garden in less-than-ideal soil, I double-dig according to the 'grow biointensive' method.  http://growbiointensive.org/   (in the 1970's I studied with John Jeavons, author of "How To Grow More Vegetables ... " and I still like this method. )  It's somewhat contray to "no till", but I like it to get a new garden started. 

With the initial dig. I incorporate finished compost and the Rx amendments. At the same time, I inoculate with beneficial soil biology, including micorrhizal fungi.  Yes its a lot of work and some expense, but it pays off in the long run.  With a good start like this, it doesn't take much to maintain plant health and productivity. Weeding is the biggest chore, but with mixed species cover cropping, companion planting and biointensive planting beds style, the work is minimized. 

I use hydrolyzed fish fertilizer and kelp extract for once a month maintenance fertility during growing season, which helps the beneficial biology thrive. When I have it together to make compost tea, I use that as a soil drench and foliar spray.  And for sensitive plants with a known prevalent disease issue, I use a specific strain biofungicide like the Bacillus s. Although I prefer Bacillus amyloliquefaciens d747  for soil and foliar when I can get it. And there are other good biofungicides. Trichoderma h. and Actinovate (Streptomyces lydicus WYEC 108) fly off the shelf in organic growers supply shops in California. 

Some of these things are not available yet in Thailand, but Evolare's organic growers supply company is working on it. 

For prevalent pest issues, with the soil fertility and water managment as a basis, I use preventive applications of an Azadirachtin neem product, mixed with a pyrethum concentrate for knock down, every week or two depending on the pest pressure and life cycle timing. 

You’re right, lychee trees are usually shaped/reduced at time of harvest. But it’s not too late for essential pruning: structural corrections, cleaning, thinning and light shaping of your young trees.. Be conservative and don’t do heavy thinning or major crown reduction for the wrong reasons (or for no good reason except that someone says you should cut).

I like a statement from one of the first books I read early in my arborist career: “The best time to prune is when your saw is sharp.” (John Haller, Tree Care 1957).  Of course this needs to followed with some other considerations. But it’s true, light pruning (cleaning of deadwood, structural corrections, directional training, light thinning and shaping can be done most any time. Heavy pruning can create physiological stress, excessive vegetative growth response, disrupt growth, flowering and fruiting.

Be careful of seeking advice from commercial growers for your landscape trees, because there are some differences in techniques and objectives for home orchards and landscape fruit trees.  You may find value, as I do, in preserving the natural form and beauty of the trees as well as managing for high quality, nutrient dense fruit production for home use. Lychee are incredibly beautiful and naturally well-formed trees, one of my favorites. With moderate pruning, along with good soil and water management, you will likely get more fruit than you can use, preserve and gift to friends.

Commercial growers often prune heavily with an objective of stimulating new growth for maximum yield.  This is often done without consideration of the physiological effects and stress factors that affect tree health and structural integrity.

Over thinning and especially heading cuts, exposes woody branches and trunks to sun scald of bark and the underlying growing layer.  This can open a path for wood decay fungal infection which can affect growth and create branch dieback, and can attract borer-beetle infestation.

Lightly clean and thin the foliar crown, remove dead-wood, breakage, stubs and crossing branches, preserve stable alternating branch structure, use central leader or “modified central leader” system, not “open-center” or other extreme heading styles. Preserve the full shading of the woody structure and the shading of the soil beneath the crown; don’t raise the canopy too much, therefore allowing the sun to beat in, drying the soil and sun-burning the lower tree trunks. Shape lightly but don’t top the trees. Branch end-weight reduction and height reduction can be done with “drop-crotch” method as needed.  Contrary to a common practice, I never top fruit trees for easy pickings. Climb or use a ladder and pole-pruner.   

Best management practices for high quality, nutrient dense fruit production is mostly about good water management and soil fertility.  Consider mixed species cover cropping as is being promoted by regenerative agriculture, soil-food-web and eco-agriculture advocates.