drtreelove

On 11/24/2018 at 12:49 PM, grollies said:

I had bad gummosis on my lime trees this rainy season. I scraped back the infected bark, sprayed with neem extract and painted with the red paint we use on the rubber tree panels. Worked for me, but you are probably right and I'm no PhD grad. Thanks for the info.

Citrus gummosis is usually due to a Phytophthora infection (fungus-like organism called a "water mold").  Excision of the bark and underlying infected tissue is a recommended method of of control, and this may have been the primary reason that you noticed positive results.  

It would be natural to assume that the substances you applied were responsible for the suppression of the disease, and maybe they helped, especially the coating that may prevent side effects, secondary infections from open wounds.  But I wouldn't assume from that procedure that the neem product is an effective fungicide. 

http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r107100411.html

https://www.apsnet.org/publications/imageresources/Pages/FI000301.aspx

Interveinal chlorosis can also be due to Magnesium and/or Manganese deficiency.  

On 11/24/2018 at 1:18 PM, grollies said:

Could also be that you have sufficient iron in the soil and something is preventing your peppercorn taking up iron? But only a soil test is going to tell you that.

This is a right on suggestion!  Only a soil test can take the guess work out of it.  If the soil is calcareous it could very well have an alkaline pH of over 8, which will make iron unavailable no matter how much you add.  

19 minutes ago, scubastephen said:

Used phosjet in Australia on mangos. Also used for jarhha die back on plums, worked well but don't know if available in Thailand.

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PhosJet may be same or similar to PhosphoJet and Agrifos products that I have used extensively in the California central coast for prevention of sudden oak death syndrome (Phytophthora ramorum) and other fungal and watermold diseases.  It is a phosphite product (Mono-and di-potassium salts of Phosphorous Acid) first developed for the avocado industry I believe, for suppression of phytophthora crown rot. It's part of the latest generation of systemic fungicides.  It works to build resistance to disease, as preventive treatment and for suppression of advance of a vascular disease, not necessarily as a cure.  

I have not seen it in Thailand. 

26 minutes ago, scubastephen said:

Methyl Bromide, gives me the horrors. 3 seconds dermal ingestion and your dead meat standing( from my studies in horticulture ).

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It has been banned for commercial use in California for good reason.  And therefore made it necessary for grower to learn about less toxic options for soil borne diseases. 

15 hours ago, grollies said:

Hi. Neem extract has antifungal properties and will help with pests.

If your suggestion is from hard experience and you have found a neem product that is effective for fungal pathogens, then please post that product information and source.

But I suspect that the suggestion is theoretical based on wide spread mis-information that all neem products are insecticial and fungicidal.  

If you could get neem oil or 70% neem oil that would be true.  But the neem extract products that I have found available in Thailand do not have significant anti fungal properties.  

The products available from Thai Neem and other distributors are primarily Azadirachtin concentrates, which are excellent for insect and mite prevention/suppression.  But in the process of extracting and isolating the potent Aza ingredient, many of the other properties of the complex neem seed oil chemistry are lost. 

Raw neem seed oil, or the commercial 70% clarified hydrophobic extract product widely used in some countries like the US, has some mild fungicidal properties that are effective for superficial (ectotrophic) plant pathogens like powdery mildew and rust. But it is not systemic and not effective for deeper vascular fungal pathogens.

This information is from my own experience using neem products and according to an email discussion I have had recently with the leading neem product researcher in India,  a PhD researcher at a major Ag university in Bangalore.  He told me that he trialed Azadirachtin products and found no significant fungicidal effectiveness.  

Regarding the original post, I thought that experienced tomato growers here would respond.  I have limited experience with tomatoes in Thailand, but in my California garden and for customers,  I was able to avoid any serious pest and disease issues with a 100% organic program, primarily focused on soil fertility and soil test based mineral balancing, and secondarily with proactive/preventive applications of a sprayer tank mix including azadirachtin, pyrethrins, and a biological fungicide, once every two weeks. I also used a soil drench monthly with a bio-fungicide, in a tank mix with hydrolyzed fish fertilizer and kelp solution. 

I have not used this Trichoderma product, but it's along the same lines as other biofungicides that I know. The key is to recognize that biofungicides are usually not curative. They are effective only as preventive. They are bacterial or fungal organisms that colonize (grow on the leaf or root surface) and prevent disease causing organisms from getting started.  Don't wait until the plants are diseased before starting treatment. 

I just dumped MSIG and wrote our 1st class car insurance renewal with Roojai.  I was dissatisfied with MSIG over the way they handled a claim.  Roojai was 5,000 vs MSIG through AA for over 13,000. But not only that, Roojai was very communicative in English, answering questions and making adjustments to the coverage and quote.  The only thing they declined to do was to bump up the 3rd party personal injury to 2,000,000 per individual from their standard 1 m. 

I paid the total online with a credit card.  But some insurance shoppers may be interested to know that they have a monthly installment plan for the premium if you need to make payments, which is unusual for Thai insurance companies.  

I was impressed with the smooth signup and good customer service.  But from my experience, that's where insurance companies shine, when they are taking your money.  I hope I don't have to find out, but if Roojai is as good with claims as they are with selling a policy at  a great price, then we have a great new resource for car insurance.  

For fertilizer, pick up a sack of Bat Guano 20%,  cow manure and compost product from the ag supply shop pictured in MaeJo on the main drag near the talat, across from MJU.  

It's not an easy question to answer. So much depends on the climate in whatever region you are located, shading from trees and buildings if any, type of grass, soil texture (sand/silt/clay), drainage, soil organic matter content, and how well it retains moisture. You have to answer your own question with experimentation and observation. 

After you water with the sprinkler for the 15 - 20 minutes, examine the soil surface to see if all the water drained right away or if it pooled on the surface and takes a while to drain.  And observe how long it takes for the soil surface to appear somewhat dry.  A couple of hours or more after watering, dig down in two or three test spots to see how deep the water penetrated; an inch is not enough, you want to apply enough to achieve at least 4-inches (10-cm) depth infiltration to encourage deep rooting and less frequent watering requirement.  Observe the grass condition over the next day or two for green growth response and also for possible wilting, which you will notice by drying, shriveling and slight discoloration of the grass blades.  (With Malaysia grass this is very obvious, it drys and thins and looks off)

Water deeply and frequently enough so that it never gets to the wilting point.  But don't water so much that it stays muddy wet. 

For the palms, I would water individually, deeply and less frequently than the grass, 4 to 6 inches of water to fill a burmed water basin, maybe once a week or two weeks.   If the palms are in the lawn area then it can be problematic. It's best not to have sprinkler water hitting the base of the palm stem daily.   Overwatering can cause stem and root rot in time.  

Hope that helps, Don

What many commercial pest control operators do, is a monthly "perimeter spray" with a barrier insecticide-termiticide that has long residual effectiveness. They spray around the base of the house foundation and up on the wall a foot or so,  some use a hydraulic sub-surface gun/needle that injects the insecticide solution 6 inches or so below the soil surface around the house.  This targets the most frequent entry path for arthopod pests like ants, and yes centipedes. 

Many PCOs and some homeowners DIY with an interior spray around baseboards and behind appliances, etc,  If you keep it low there is minimal exposure, and depending on the material, is safe to enter after it dries. 

And then some of them spray the siht out of the whole frikkin yard, trees and shrubs and all, which is not necessary and creates more environmental pesticide exposure.

Thai PCOs often use older generation highly toxic pesticides, but some of them have gone with less toxic and just as effective newer generation materials like pyrethroids.  Cypermethrin is a popular choice.  That and bifenthrin are common and very effective active ingredients in popular product brands like Chaindrite.  I have used Chaindrite Crack and Crevice aerosol with a long needle nozzle to shoot into ant trail holes and cracks with minimal overspray. I get at least a month residual effectiveness.  For larger areas and perimeter spraying the Chaindrite Stefast 30SC (Lotus, HomePro etc) can be tank mixed in a hand held sprayer at 60 parts water to 1 part concentrate. ) 

There are organic alternatives.  Baits and botanical repellents and homemade concoctions are possible.  Wood vinegar, Rosemary, clove, garlic, lemon grass and other aromatic plant based insect repellents work, but they don't have the same residual life and you have to spray more frequently to maintain the barrier.  

On 11/9/2018 at 1:04 PM, chrisinth said:

There is being drunk and being a drunken fool. 

Same Same

My California home is in Santa Cruz county, a big strawberry production area.  There are acres and acres of plastic weed control everywhere you look. I hate it because it is so unnatural and ugly and not a "sustainable" practice with the petrochemical based plastics.  But I sympathize with the challenge of weed control.  

In Watsonville they do it a little differently, leaving the furrow bottom open for tractor wheels, tillage and irrigation, just covering the hardest-to-weed planted area on top. 

I've never been a commercial grower, but because of my plant health care - IPM business and interest in organic growing, I attended a UC/county ag program on organic strawberry production and learned a lot about alternatives to Methyl Bromide fumigation for soil borne fungal disease, etc.  But the only alternative to chemical or plastic weed control discussed is hand weeding. Labor is cheap enough here, can that be considered? 

There are some options in the US with bio-degradable organic program compatible herbicides, but I don't know if any are available yet in Thailand.

They are contact only, not systemic.  Active Ingredient: Ammoniated soap of fatty acids

http://www.certisusa.com/pest_management_products/herbicide/final-san-o.htm

 https://jhawkins54.typepad.com/files/organic_strawberry_production-peterson.pdf

18 hours ago, Klong Song said:

Thanks Don, this small packet was only a few Baht and at this point I can reach the whole canopy so I think I will go with this for now and observe the results. I was out to Talad Thai in Rangsit yesterday looking for seaweed extract and Haifa fertilizer products with no luck so I ventured out again today going to Megahome, Homepro and Thai Watsadu. Again the result was negative. If someone could steer me towards an agro chemical supply shop it would be greatly appreciated.
Garry

Did you look on Lazada? 

On 11/2/2018 at 9:17 PM, Klong Song said:

I had my daughter translate the info on the package and it seems that this stuff is meant more for garden vegetables (lettuce, tomatoes, cabbage etc.). Makes no mention of fruit trees.

Daughters are great for that; brings back memories. Mine translated all kinds of ingredients and mixing rates for me when we were farming and I was discovering Thai fertilizer and pesticide materials. 

This could be a good material for foliar application of micro-nutrients.  That's interesting because I have a packet sitting here on my desk that I was going to photograph and post for you, but didn't get around to it yet.  I purchased several packets like that in MaeJo, Chiang Mai. I didn't use it for foliar but used mine in a small lot of a homemade fertilizer blend, instead of buying larger sacks of individual micronutrients. 

This product is not the same as seaweed extract. Seaweed is excellent for trace minerals and some other properties.  Seaweed may have some of the micronutrients, but not in measurable quantities for supplying essential amounts of Boron, Copper, Zinc, Iron and Manganese.  The product you show has these as well as Magnesium  and Molybdenum. 

Even though it is not labeled for trees does not mean it is not suitable. But it may not be practical or affordable. Foliar fertilzation of trees requires a sprayer that can reach the entire foliar canopy, and a lot of solution to get thorough coverage. It also requires an adjuvant (surfactant) to facilitate absorbtion through the leaf waxy cuticle. Folar fertilization requires frequent repeat applications in order to deliver an adequate amount of nutrients to make a difference; it's not a one time thing but a once a week or two weeks thing. Practical for a veggie garden, but maybe not for a tree or an orchard. Foliar can be a good addition to a fertility program, but cannot get close to replacing soil mineral and biological amendments. 

Don

I think it's good news.  Now we can get real with verifiable documentation.

And we are not locked in to paying $50 a pop for a notary stamp on a bogus form without substance. Who in the world would trust human beings to raise their right hand and swear to tell the truth. Even those sworn to lead the country and make it great again and uphold the rule of law don't do that if its inconvenient or against their personal interests.  

I just worry about the hit to the Embassy income and how they will pay for that expensive real estate on Wireless.  But I guess they'll figure out another way. Expat tax? 

5 hours ago, Notagain said:

Your words, sounds like a judgement to me of you saying your right and their wrong. But its okay i understand when people feel their way is the only way.

Say what?  Where do you get that interpretation?  

10 hours ago, Thian said:

In that case i wouldn't worry too much for that anthracnose, unless all leaves of the tree look bad...the dry season is coming soon and that will change the climate for pests and diseases.

That's an intelligent approach!  

1 hour ago, drtreelove said:

In my opinion, the problem with using broad spectrum chemical fungicides like Amistar, is that you get locked into a vicious cycle of chemical dependency, and along with killing pathogens, may be killing and not cultivating the natural defenses.  And although this chemistry is registered for specific food crops, I try to avoid systemic pesticides for food producing plants

 

"Farmers are so often locked into an ever-escalating armory of rescue chemicals, in an attempt to maintain yield and profitability. In fact, the global statistics reveal a remarkable trend. Each year, we introduce more chemicals into the equation, and yet every year there is an overall increase in pest and disease pressure. This is actually the definition of “unsustainable”. We can’t keep pouring on more and more, for less and less response."  Graeme Sait

On 10/20/2018 at 9:04 AM, IsaanAussie said:

How about a soil and tissue test lab being funded through this sort of program Dr T? 

Thats a good point. There is some serious craziness around the soil testing systems and various approaches.  You would think that in this day and age with the sophisticated science and technology, a consistent scientific approach would have been found.  But far from it!  Opinions and politics, special interests and economics rule, not necessarily sound science and a consensus on methods of extraction and analysis and recommendations.  Here's an example, from an Albrecht cation balancing influenced agronomist: 

17 hours ago, Klong Song said:

I was always very appreciative of Davey Tree for keeping Hwy 9 open, always fast and efficient. When I got back to CA after traveling through Central and South America friends said It was happening in SC and I should come up. I wasn’t disappointed, those early days were the best. I started out in Boulder Creek as well. Like a lot of guys I bought a truck and started cutting firewood to make ends meet. Used to work with a friend on Deer Creek road taking downed trees on the uphill side. Hard work but like you say it keeps you outside and in good shape. Did some milling as well, we had Stihl 090’s on each end of a four foot bar. When I go back to CA I always try to fit in a couple of days in SC to see old friends.

Can you suggest a foliar fertilizer for my durian tree? I am always at the mercy of the people in the shops.


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090, thats a major power-head, How's your hearing? Mine's long gone along with other seriously abused body parts. 

I don't know what to recommend for foliar fert here, I have seen liquid kelp and humic acid products, with which you can't go wrong.  Thian or other friends here may offer some suggestions.  I never look at foliar fertilizing as a complete nutrient application, but it can be an important supplement for specific absorbable nutrients.  Not all essential plant nutrients can be absorbed and utilized through foliar applications,  Even the ones that can need to be applied frequently, like weekly, because there such a limited amount of the material that is absorbed with one application.  

I have never found one particular product even in the US.  I did a lot of foliar fertilization for trees an shrubs, but always in combination with soil applied fertilization.   I tank-mixed a solution of high quality chelated micro nutrients and liquid kelp along with a fulvic acid product to facilitate absorption, and compost tea or a biological fungicide product.  I never tried to get macronutrients with foliar, but used soil applications with soil-test based amendments or a complete fertilizer. 

On 10/22/2018 at 8:07 PM, JungleBiker said:

The same fungus (Colletotrichum gloeosporoides) that causes anthracnose in durian also causes anthracnose in avocado, and the fungicides used for avocado are:

 

(a) Copper-based fungicides - they are protective not curative, and can be used by organic growers; and

 

(b) Amistar (active ingredient: azoxystrobin) which is systemic and has partial curative properaties but should not be sprayed too many times per season. Amistar is made by Syngenta. There are other brands of azoxystrobin that are cheaper. 

 

All of the above are easy to find in Thai agrochemical shops. 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, the problem with using broad spectrum chemical fungicides like Amistar, is that you get locked into a vicious cycle of chemical dependency, and along with killing pathogens, may be killing and not cultivating the natural defenses.  And although this chemistry is registered for specific food crops, I try to avoid systemic pesticides for food producing plants

BTW, Copper based fungicides are not all created equal, some are not appropriate for application to foliage and fruits, and for mixing with other chemistry, because of phyto-toxicity.  Best to determine which product is recommended for the target and the host plant and at what period of time in the growing cycle and at what concentration.  

It sure appears to be a fungal leaf spot and maybe an anthracnose, there are several possible causal organisms.

A common mistake is to think that the application of a fungicide will clear up fungal leaf spots or anthracnose type infections. But from my experience, the affected foliage will never be "cured" and clear the necrotic tissue and return that affected leaf or leaves to a normal state, no matter what you spray or inject.  

What you can hope for with a a fungicide application is to suppress the advance of the infection and stop the spread to healthy tissue.  The more advanced the existing infection is in the plant, the harder that is to achieve.

Prevention, early intervention is possible to get results of suppression, but cure of an advanced infection is difficult or impossible depending on what the pathogen is and what chemistry you have available for treatment.  (Not all fungicides will suppress all fungi. 

and like CLW points out, chemical fungicides are subject to diseases acquiring resistance to the class of fungicide used. And often, chemical fungicides sprayed on foliage will suppress beneficial fungi and bacteria that work as natural biological controls against pathogenic fungi.

That could be why Thian's approach is sound, to build plant health and provide nourishment through soil improvement and foliar nutrient applications which help the plant build resistance on it's own and with the help of naturally occuring beneficial biology. 

You can assist that beneficial biology, in the soil and on the foliage, by first not killing it off. And second, by recognizing the seasonal climate related disease cycles, like wet season and fungal leaf disease, and taking a preventive step by applying a concentrated biological fungicide, maybe along with your foliar fertilizing tank mix.  A good quality EM is one type of biofungicide product, Trichoderma is another. Biofungides are not subject to the same type of resistance. 

It's probably too late in the season and in the disease cycle to expect much results for your durian anthracnose now, but consider a preventive program starting now with soil fertility and a spray program for next year. 

In addition to the subject course of study in my original post, here is another positive movement:

https://www.gofundme.com/worlds-most-nutritious-food

CLW, this is the funding I was trying to hook you up with for your masters program research project.