drtreelove

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

If you intend to drop the tree anyway, why not just set fire to it(the base trunk), the smoke etc will move any inhabitants and the remaining item will be easier to remove. (Assuming it's not located too close to anything else that might suffer)

Bad idea!

Have you determined if it's honey bees or are they wasps/hornets? If bees, a local beekeeper may be able to move the hive, queen and all, depending on how the hive is built in the tree. Ask around, or go to village head man who usually knows local resources, but if you are in the City it may be harder to find than in an ag village area. 

If wasps, be careful, a tiger wasp swarm can be deadly.  There have been many discussions here and in the farming forum on how local folks deal with a situation like this. If your wife is Thai, have her start asking around. She will surely find someone to take on the task and keep you out of harms way. 

With the bees gone, can you transplant the tree instead of killing it?  Although at 4 years it may be too big to move successfully. 

Lack of flowering and fruiting may be due to excess Nitrogen and rapid vegetative growth, is there a leach field associated with the septic tank where the roots may be getting into the effluent?  Otherwise, nutrient deficiency, poor soil and water management can be responsible for lack of flowering/fruiting. 

21 hours ago, OOTAI said:

 

I believe that using a mulching mower means the cuttings stay there and act as a moisture retention layer, 

A lot of good advice in the replies here. I'll add this:

A true mulching mower is a specialized design and I haven't seen one in Thailand. I use the same practice with my malay grass. I take off the catcher and just let the cut grass filter down into the sod to decompose and replenish soil organic matter content and nutrients. But I mow once a week, so like Cooked wisely advises, the amount of grass blade that is cut is only a quarter or a third of the total blade length. I mow high, at about 3 inches, on the highest wheel setting. This leaves plenty of blade surface for continuation of photosynthesis which manufactures the sugars that nourish the blades and roots. That way the plants stay healthy and don't suffer incredible physiological stress every time the grass is scalped. It also cuts short lengths that can easily filter down to the soil grade and not lay on the surface to dry up and look ugly.  Leaving the grass clippings is part of an organic approach to lawn care, but it's only appropriate if you follow Cooked's advise and mow high and cut frequently in order to minimize the amount cut. 

A big part of healthy lawn care is in the soil preparation.  With a deep, rototilled, compost enriched, seed or sod bed there will good growing conditions and a buffer from drought conditions, and like OOTAi suggests, you can water less frequently.  Unfortunately, good soil preparation doesn't happen often with cost cutting installations that are common. Sod gets laid right on top of a clay soil layer with no organic matter enrichment. Therefore there are no nutrient and soil moisture reserves. So when you scalp the grass or let it dry out too much, the brown spots or entire brown out develops.  

46-0-0 is urea, a high Nitrogen fast release chemical fertilizer. Overdo it and you'll create a salt burn of the roots from desiccation, and get browning of the grass.  I would advise 1 kilo maximum per 100 square meters at any one application every six weeks.  (That's approximately 1 pound of actual N per 1000 sq feet, which is American-speak for average chemical Nitrogen lawn application. 4 lbs actual N, max per year) .  If you use 21-0-0, ammonium sulfate, you get the sulfur too which is an important nutrient. With that you can use 2 kilos per 100 sq feet and get about the same amount of actual N. Or 3 kilos per 100 sq meters of 15-15-15. Spread fertilizer  evenly or you can get burn spots from excess concentration where you lumped it. And don't double up thinking more is better. 

By the way, I do think you will need to water daily during hot dry conditions. The advise about watering more deeply and less frequently is good, but only if you have the deep soil preparation with adequate organic matter content for soil moisture retention. 

Organic, slow release fertilization is what I prefer. But that's another discussion. 

Plants as chess pieces?  OK, but if they start moving then you may have a problem. Or you been smoking that Lao grass. ????

3 hours ago, Tayaout said:

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/coverage/rice-does-not-need-water-10108

 

I will test this technique on a smale scale soon. 

SRI system is well tested and documented. A friend of mine, former member here, now in Cambodia, had an organic research and teaching farm in Chiang Mai. He had side by side comparisons and I think he posted here about it. PM me if you want to pursue a contact. 

22 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"...while an effective alternative is not available."

Key statement.  There are alternatives, just maybe not in Thailand yet.  I'm in the US right now and using herbicidal soaps, biodegradable, organic program compatible.  I have yet to try D-limonene herbicide products, but they are popular here. There is a tremendous amount of R & D going on in biopesticides, and new less toxic products coming out all the time. 

12 hours ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Thank you.
 

 

Also, consider your fertilization program. High NPK chemical fertilizers, especially high Nitrogen are a magnet for insect pests. Don't overdo it thinking green vigorous growth is good. Slow release, high nutrient density fertility is better.  It took me years to believe and trust this fact, but now that I do, my own garden and that of my customers simply don't have the pest and disease problems that I used to have to deal with.  

Some organic growers use ta-kite (lemongrass) in a decoction with wood vinegar solution, as an easy and cheap contact spray and a few days residual repellent. 

From the photos, your trees appear young and they may not be fruiting yet.  But consider that if they are flowering, by spraying with any concentrated solution, you run the risk of damaging flowers and disrupting pollination.  I know it's disturbing to see leaf distortions from pest activity, but you should determine how much damage is really there, what percentage of the foliage is affected. If not extensive, and the pest is not a killer, and does not affect flowers and fruit, then maybe don't panic for cosmetic reasons. A tree with a minimal percentage of distorted leaves can still photosynthesize and produce flowers and fruit.  Spraying, even with botanicals, can negatively affect pollinators, beneficial pest predators and parasitoids.  So weigh all the factors. 

5 hours ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

Sorry I forgot to ask about tobacco extract. The bought some leafs and wonder if we could use it as a insect repellent.

 

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

I don't know about the concentration and effectiveness of the product you are considering. But I wouldn't count on a leaf decoction for much potency or residual effectiveness, unless you have directions for your product or experience that indicates otherwise.  

Nicotine, like pyrethins/pyrethrum, is a powerful botanical insecticide, but for a contact kill, not necessarily for residual repellent action. It biodegrades rapidly, and that's why it's organic program compatible. 

The tree you have is probably "pomelo" Citrus maxima or Citrus grandis.  The leaf damage appears to be "citrus leaf miner". It's a moth that lays it eggs, then the larvae hatch and tunnel as they feed, creating the galleries and leaf distortions..  

Prevention of new infestations is the best strategy, spraying an organic botanical repellent regularly (once a week) like a neem 'azadirachtin' product. 

It's not possible to control the existing larval population without using a systemic insecticide like imidacloprid. But then the insecticide may end up in the pomelo fruit you eat.  

There may also be some secondary leaf fungal infection there, I can't really see from the photos.   Insecticidal soap may help with moth control, but some soap products will damage the plant. Use a commercially formulated insecticidal soap, or search "homemade insecticidal soap" and follow the precautions and make your own.  

Spraying a repellent or insecticide is tricky timing because you don't want to repel pollinators - honey bees. 

The damage is ugly, but as the following paper suggests, control may not be necessary. 

http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74137.html

Don

6 hours ago, Singhajon said:

Here's a link that made me think the product was suitable.

http://www.plantmediashop.com/store/product/view/ปุ๋ยเกล็ด_เวสโก้_สุตร_20_10_30_Trace_Element_ธาตุรองเสริม_ช่วยขยายผล_เ-27765043-th.html

The label says the right things, indicating that it is formulated for foliar apps, and it has a lot of goodies.  I can't determine what form the NPK components are in, and I question such a high NPK for foliar.  I would recommend applying a trial to a small area of unimportant foliage and waiting a week or two to observe for leaf or flower burn or not, before applying to all your trees. 

On 8/11/2019 at 6:33 AM, Singhajon said:

Am trying Wesco 20-10-30 + trace elements for my tree's, ordered from Lazada 3 x 1Kg 400B delivered.

Do you see any indication that this product is formulated for foliar application?  I don' see that on the website, and I doubt it, it's too high in NPK and may burn, may be not be appropriate and may be a waste.  

Foliar fertilizer needs to be specifically formulated for foliar absorption, and needs a spreader-sticker. And I use a fulvic acid adjuvant to facilitate absorption. 

Look at WESCOs other products under micronutrients menu 

http://en.wesco.co.th/15090940/micronutrients

Super Plus, Cyto Green and Spray Tol,  these are indicated for foliar use.

I trust the quality of products from Organic Totto in Samut Prakan, although I haven't used their foliar fert products. 

https://www.organictotto.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=539114098

Standard formulations of the macro-nutrients are not usually appropriate for foliar application. They are not readily absorbed and the amount needed is much more than can be provided by foliar.  20 - 30 years ago it was only chelated micronutrients that could be absorbed through foliar application, but now there are new generation formulations, including urea based N that can be absorbed through stomata and leaf surface, but you have to study and trust the label.  In any case it takes regular, preferably weekly applications to really get the benefit of foliar, because so little is actually absorbed with one application. Its best to rely primarily on soil organic matter building and mineralization, with foliar as a supplemental modality, if you have the right products and the spray equipment and technique to get good coverage of upper and lower leaf surfaces. And timing. The rainy season makes scheduling the spraying on a dry day important, to make it stick long enough to get absorption. 

I'm in California for the summer season, and frequently recommending and applying foliar fertilization. My primary work is with trees in landscapes and home orchards . As an example, for stressed trees that were in decline, we are implementing a comprehensive rehabilitation program, including water management as primary, soil testing and prescription amendments, beneficial soil microbial inoculations, biological fungicides, IPM and once a month foliar fertilization with a tank mix of products (hard to sell weekly, even in the robust Silicon Valley economy).  The attached products, plus a light spreader-sticker, and a high quality fulvic acid product, which is a key development in facilitating foliar absorption. https://buildasoil.com/products/bioag-ful-power.

Micrel label.pdf Turf_GreenSpeed_SI.pdf

I have a cynical friend who says the answer is: "Close the schools and put the little parasites to work pulling weeds, and we won't need so much Round Up". 

8 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

three hazardous herbicides...paraquat, chlorpyrifos and glyphosate,

Chlorpyrifos is not an herbicide. It's an OP (organophosphate insecticide).  

"Doing some light chopping in soil around our mango trees ( age 3 years ). "

The "chopping" will do more damage to the tree absorbing root system than the grubs will.  

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I have a Lam Yai tree in my garden since 10 years now, it has become very large, lots of leaves but has never given any fruit.

That's another topic. But consider soil fertility and water management. 

9 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Brilliant topic! I wonder how the Thai bashers will use this one. Regarding the pest in question.  Does it not have a natural predator that you can utilize?

Fortunately you won't find much Thai bashing on this farming forum, only occasional frustrations expressed. 

The brilliant aspect of this topic in my opinion, is that the big beetle larvae are not necessarily a pest, if they are not harming plants of economic or aesthetic value. That is the intelligence in the question and the follow up of the OP.  Learn what you are dealing with, monitor plants for pest activity. Use preventive and early intervention.

Why kill the grubs if they are just doing their thing in processing raw organic matter and breaking it down for better availability in soil building and plant health. There are billions more beneficial organisms at work in the soil, most we can't see without a microscope. Chemical fertilizers and pesticides do great damage to these beneficials and cause a never ending cycle of chemical dependency. So it's not only snakes and birds you shouldn't kill, but beneficial fungi, bacteria, nematodes, protozoa in the soil, and mini-wasps that parasitize the grubs by ovipositing. 

11 hours ago, Tagged said:

Is this harmfull to Yang Na and fruit trees? We have alot of grass, and 160 trees of different kind. 

 

And if harmfull, what to do? 

 

Not likely to be harmful to the dicot trees as far as I know. Rhinoceros beetle is mainly a pest of coconut and oil palms. But you should be inspecting/monitoring the trees weekly for pest and disease issues. 

The grubs feeding on the organic matter on the soil surface that you show, may or may not be rhinoceros beetle. Have you seen adult beetles? Have you seen any damage on the trees.  Are there palms nearby that could be their host plant? 

If determined to be a problem, management/control has several possibilities, sanitation being one practical method, means managing wood waste and compost, netting compost piles to prevent adult beetles from flying out to the trees, disposing of downed trees and woody plant parts.  There is a biological agent, a fungus that kills larvae, which you can spray on your soil and compost piles to keep the numbers down. 

I believe story is in reference to fusarium wilt (Panama disease) in the large commercial monocultures of Cavendish bananas. And not likely to be related to the OP issue.  

http://www.promusa.org/Fusarium+wilt

example:  cigar end rot

https://www.plantwise.org/knowledgebank/datasheet/54408#PreventionAndControlSection

"Control is primarily by sanitation and avoiding damage to host tissues (Meredith, 1960; Beugnon et al., 1970)"

IssanAussie is right, its always best when presenting photos of plant problems, to include pics of the entire plant and the site. Include your geographical location and description of the growing conditions, soil and water management, commercial grow or home garden and how many plants are affected. 

37 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

A few possibilities here:  https://plantvillage.psu.edu/topics/banana/infos

That's a great paper, thanks for posting. 

I don't see the specific disease condition that fits the signs from Stubuzz's plant and I haven't seen this myself.  Although from what is shown I suspect a fungal disease. Maybe the "cigar end rot" or similar infection. So following some of the "management" tips for the other fungal disease's presented will be your best bet at suppression. 

Management (anthracnose)

Commercially produced fruit should be washed and dipped in fungicide prior to shipping; protect fruit from injury; remove flower parts which can harbour fungus.

Management (cigar end-rot)

Infected flowers should be removed from the plant; bunches should be bagged using perforated polyethylene; chemical control may be necessary in the case of severe infestations.

I don't think you will be able to eradicate the disease from the subject plant without extraordinary measures of systemic fungicide treatment, but you may be able to prevent the spread to other plants by utilizing sanitation, removing the infected plants and plant parts, clean up of infected leaf litter to reduce spore load and reinfection, and addressing the growing conditions, soil fertility and water management.  And if you have budget and spray equipment, maybe consider applying a biological fungicide regularly until the growing conditions and fertility can be improved enough to promote plant resistance to disease. 

"Banana plants grow optimally at 27°C (98.6°F) and require a deep soil, rich in organic matter which is well draining and well aerated. The plants will grow optimally in soil with a pH between 5.5 and 7.0."  

This is hard to achieve if you are starting with an alkaline, heavy clay soil common in many areas of Thailand. I haven't grown bananas commercially, but have always grown them in home gardens at several locations in Thailand. I have been lucky with no serious plant pests or diseases, but I go all out to create best fertility that I can, don't over-water or under-water, once a week deep watering during dry season.  I plant in best location that I can for drainage, with composted backfill, mulch heavily, and apply aged or composted manure fertilizer. I don't let stems stand and rot after fruiting, I cut them out and compost them, minimizing fungal stem rot inoculum for remaining plants. 

 Try insecticidal soap. Organic program compatible, non-toxic, but protect your eyes. Homemade recipe attached. 

Homemade Insecticidal Soap Recipe.docx

Handle copper sulfate with care, protect yourself, your eyes and skin, kids, pets, and especially don't contaminate fish ponds, it is extremely toxic to fish.  Store it in lock up to prevent accidental exposure by kids or others who may not know the toxic effects of handling or breathing the concentrate. 

I have had an excessive exposure to copper sulfate while mixing and spreading soil mineral amendments without eye and respiratory protection.  It's no fun.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/cuso4gen.html

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper-sulfate-ext.html

It probably isn't realistic to expect an ag dept regional biological control program with parasitoid wasp release, although the DoA has a biological control division.

So for the individual farmer, close monitoring and early intervention with Bt should be considered.  I don't have experience with FAW, but I do with other caterpillars and Bacillus thuringiensis is very effective if timed correctly, when early instar larvae are feeding, they have to ingest the bacteria, it's not a contact spray or systemic. It's completely non-toxic and organic program compatible.

I'm in Santa Cruz California right now, monitoring oak moth caterpillar development for timing of Bt spray, in anticipation of a large outbreak. There was a big moth flight in June, eggs were present into first week of July,  most have hatched and 1st and 2nd instar caterpillars are feeding now, but damage is not extensive noticeable until 4th and 5th instar.  We use the Bt kurstaki strain, with a spreader-sticker and make two applications, two weeks apart.