spidermike007

I suppose if I had unlimited finances, I would probably leave. I despise the government and immigration here, and it does feel like the nation is moving backwards. But, considering the fact that I do not have a fortune, I will stay. There are many issues to consider. Going back to the US is not an option. I would not want to live there now, unless I was being paid over a million dollars a year, and then I would only do it for 3 years, and then leave. For me, it is about quality of life, and my level of fulfillment on a daily basis, which I seem to have here in abundance. A big factor here, is the relatively light hearted attitude of the people. You just do not find that in the US, where most seem bitter, disenchanted, unfulfilled, and heavy hearted. 

This is an entirely subjective topic, of course. But some of us live very good lives here. Some of us have been fortunate enough to find an outstanding woman, who is delightful to be around, on a daily basis, always has our back, and is fun, smart, and lovely. For me, that likelihood of finding that back in the US, would be very low. So, that is a big factor for me. The second factor is just the quality of life. Sure, I miss alot of the culture back home. The theatre, independent film (which I can download here with no issues at all, and a super fast 550 mbps fiber optic connection, at under 800 baht per month!), stand up comedy, live jazz, etc. But I have a lovely home that I rent, for about 10% of what I would pay in California, I live very well on an income which is not huge, have access to great health care, at a tiny fraction of what it costs in the US, and do not have to put up with alot of the aggravation that I had to when I lived back there.

Thailand is still reasonable. It used to be cheap. Has not been cheap for a long time. But, it is still reasonable. I know people who pay 10,000 baht a month for newer 3 bedroom houses in nice towns. In major cities in the US? $2000-3800 a month. That is 120,000 baht!

I had my motorbike seat recently redone on my scooter. 400 baht. A friend of mine had similar work done in the US. $275.

I recently had a guy come over and insulate my ceiling. I bought the insulation and paid him 2000 baht for labor. In the US? $500 and up.

I recently had an electrician do some work on the house. Nearly a full day of work. Paid him 1000 baht. In the US? $500 and up.

An oil change for my scooter costs me 200 baht, with Castrol oil. In the US? $75.

When I travel here I stay in nice four star hotels in Bangkok. Usually 1800-2000 baht. Now, during Covid. Great hotels for 1,000 baht. In the US? $130 for a crappy motel. $200 and up for a nice room.

I eat well here. In a smaller town you can get a three course meal for 150-250 baht. In the US? 2000 baht and up, plus tax and a nearly mandatory 15% tip.

I visit the emergency room here to visit a specialist, and with x-rays I am out the door for 2000 baht, at a private hospital. In the US? $300-2000. An anecdote on this subject. A good friend of mine got in a bad motorcycle accident some time ago. He almost lost his leg. He got his first of 11 operations at Bangkok Hospital Samui. It costs him over a million baht. They wanted to do a second procedure. They quoted him 1,400,000 baht. He decided to transfer to Bangkok. He was quoted 460,000 baht for the same procedure, at a top private hospital there. The surgeon told him that he worked at a public hospital too, and could do the same operation there, for alot less money. He told him he would get him a quote. In the interim, my friend called a good friend of his, in San Diego, who is an orthopedic surgeon. Since my friend is a retired chiropractor, he knew all the terminology, and explained what he needed, and asked for the best price. His friend called him back the next day, and quoted him $960,000, with cash discounts! The local surgeon here got back to him, and told him he could do it for 46,000 baht. He transferred, and they did all the rest of his procedures. So, 1,400,000 at Bangkok Hospital, 460,000 at Vejthani Hospital, and 46,000 at the public hospital, with an excellent surgeon. VS. 31,000,000 baht in the US. Again, no complaints from this peanut gallery.

Friends of mine, who are single, enjoy the company of a young, beautiful woman for a couple of hours, for 2500 baht. In the US? $800 an hour now for a beauty, with alot of attitude.

I could go on and on, all day long. I live at a level here, that I would never be able to live at, in the US, in most of Europe, in Oz, or Canada. Yes, the higher baht is an annoyance. And yes things are more expensive than they used to be. But, it is very relative.

Sure, Thailand has changed. My first trip here was in 1976! It was so much different than now. The politics here are absolutely regressive. The army is horrendous. Will that ever improve? I think so. I think the youth will eventually oust them, as they are virtually useless to Thai society, with the exception of protecting the elite. those in power and the super wealthy. But alot of things here have improved since then. The infrastructure here is quite good. Sure they could use a high speed rail. That would be amazing. Hopefully it will happen. The whole world is different now. The whole planet is being affected by a greatly expanding population, inflation, environmental issues, politics, and congestion. So, we are going to experience some of that no matter where we are. All I know, is that every day I wake up, I am very glad to be here, very glad to be with the woman I am with, and thankful for my life. Would I feel the same way in the US? I seriously doubt it. Most of my friends back in the US, say they would trade positions with me, in a heartbeat, if they could. I believe them. And I feel for them. The quality of life where I came from is a pale shadow of what it used to be. No thanks.

There is one more consideration. No matter where we go, we still have to contend with ourselves, our attitude, our issues and our minds. So, some will always be seeking greener pastures. Nothing wrong with that. But, it does not insure fulfillment.

49 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Excellent comments by Gen Khun Prayut Chan O Cha,  as I mentioned before, he is not occupied by the student protests, his priority is the economy and helping the poor. So all those TV farang who babbled on about the PM stepping down, sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong again. lol 

That must be some seriously powerful Kool-aid you are drinking. Helping the poor? Are you serious? What has this man done for the poor lately? Besides the 5,000 baht handout, with the 86% rejection rate, which demonstrated how "not serious" these clowns were about helping the people. His entire M.O. is about helping the rich. The masses count for nothing with this creep. 

At this point in time, you are the crisis. You may have been fortunate with Covid, and have gotten some of the credit for that, but what else have you done for your people lately? The least you can do, is agree to a massive reform of the constitution, and allow the people to get rid of the 250 crocodiles you installed in the senate. Make it a body of politicians that represent the people, not the army. You are fooling nobody, with your tactics. You and your army are universally despised by the people, and you have drastically over extended your welcome. Get out now!

And what about your promise to fight corruption? I doubt if you remember back this far, but when you and your clowns launched a coup, it was ostensibly to restore law and order, which you accomplished with draconian measures, and to get rid of the rot, and corruption in immigration, the police, customs, the government, and at the highest levels, which you never even made the slightest attempt to do. You substituted 10 foot alligators, with 14 foot crocodiles. And you have spent your entire six years protecting the elite, those in office, the army, the police, those who are connected, and the super wealthy. For God's sake, you could not even bring the Dark Tao killer to justice, nor the Red Bull creep. Again, busy protecting the wealthy with all of your power. 

The real problem is, you will not go after any of these guys. Not the top bankers, not the high ranking guys, not the provincial authorities, and certainly not the army, or the police. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. As far as most of us are concerned, everything is the same. The police and army are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Any hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the most naive amongst us. 
 

Now, in this time of desperation, with your nation needing you more than ever before, where on earth are you? What have your proposed? Where are the solutions? There are at least a dozen good reasons why you should be removed from office. 

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Did you mean menusia.  Because it is stuck deep in the feces created by China and then the rest of the world.  Still having a hard time understanding how the Teflon coated Baht just sails along, yet the economy and all has gone deep down the rabbit hole.  The US is also in a quagmire with its failure to help out the citizens and leave the bickering aside. 

The US has an end game in sight. This toxic administration will be gone shortly. Where does that leave Thailand? If they cannot figure out a way to get rid of Prayuth, they are hopelessly mired in a backwards economic death spiral. 

The army could not have possibly picked a worse time to show their extreme desperation and fear of losing their power. 
 
They claim they want to restart tourism. They claim they want to attract more foreign investment. Yet, everything they do is destroying the dreams, hopes, aspirations, careers, and future of the nation.
 
They are the most regressive force possible. What sacrifices are these cowards willing to make for their people? None. It is all about the guys at the top, and the protection of the ivory tower and fortunes that are being made by the 00.2%.
 
I suspect the future is not going to be kind to these guys. May the youth prevail! 

Utter desperation on the part of brain dead dinosaur nitwits, who cannot adapt, cannot think on their feet, cannot lead the nation forward and cannot comprehend the sentiment of the nation, nor why they are so stunningly unpopular, and despised. 

This is just another nail in the coffin. Hopefully, it will encourage the older folks to shake off their inertia, and get involved, finally. The army must go. Prayuth must go, if Thailand has any hope of moving forward, from this self created abyss. 

It seems like there are alot of gorgeous gals from Udon Thani, Koen Kaen, Buriram, and Chaiyaphum. And Bangkok, of course! It is almost as if they lace the water with some sort of beauty agent! 

The fascinating thing about Thai women, is that they are all of mixed ethnicity. Few know it, and few will admit it. But it is nearly 100%. Going back to the days of ancient Ayutthaya and Sukhothai, Thailand was a major trading nation. And people from all over the region came to trade, many of whom stayed. Producing the most astonishing women as a result. Indians, Sumatrans, Burmese, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Japanese, Turks, Persians, and more.

Combine their innate femininity, and the level of comfort they have in expressing that, it makes them very appealing. I see a  Western woman sometimes, who is beautiful, but cold as ice, and more masculine than I am, and there is no appeal, whatsoever. 

17 hours ago, riverhigh said:

re: "ex-pats with cash, many of whom are smart enough to be shopping for bargains right now." 

Most of my American Expat friends with cash are happy to be in Thailand, considering the problems back home. As to buying a condo for the first time or buying an additional condo, this couldn't be further from their minds. Some of them who have been here many years were unable to renew their visas legally because of the medical insurance requirement that sprung out of nowhere.  The 40,000 baht out patient requirement is ridiculous (befoe the requirement most of the insurance polisies didn't have it). The Thai government could have grandfather claused the medical requirement but they didn't . My American friends  were furious and inwardly upset as they had the money to self insure. You can say they should have taken out insurance when they could have,  but that's not going to help thailand with thier property crisis. Just a reminder, during the 1997 financial  crisis in Thailand they changed the rule to 100% foreign ownership for certain buildings in Pattaya. 15 years later they reneged on their promise and forced some foreigners to sell to Thais at a loss. Spidermike007, while I agree with most of your recommendations you have made in previous posts, I think you have ommitted the "trust" factor. Without political stability, ease of doing business for forigners and, more importantly the "trust" factor. there is little hope for Thailand solving their propery crisis. As a reaonabley well off expat myself I will be investing elsewhere, bargains exist all around the world now if you are prepared to take a risk. I too, like many other expats, are on the worthless one year temporary visa more commonly misnamed the OA retiring visa. For me to even consider investing in Thailand I need the PR. Due to my age I am not prepared to get a job, work three years, pay taxes and then fork out 200,000 baht, plus another 150,000 baht in special fees , to get the stamp. Based on their previous record of trust worthyness there is no guarnatee that when my passport is due for renewal that my PR stamp will be transferred to my new passport. The above is just my opinons.

I agree with everything you said. I too am happy to live here, for now. As to the future, who knows. I have investments here, but they are limited. And I would not be buying a condo or a house here unless it was 45 cents on the dollar. 

As far as immigration goes, unbelievable hubris and arrogance. The authorities should be begging the ex-pats to stay. Free, unlimited visas, 10,000 baht hotel vouchers, and free meals for travel.

An immigration officer will come to your home to renew your visa, to show our appreciation, of your continued support. Half price air tickets for domestic travel. Princely treatment. Thank you so much for helping to rescue our economy and our people. Thank you so much for choosing Thailand, over countless other nations. We are humbled and incredibly appreciative of your support. 

19 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

You can't believe any of them. What amazes me is that Donald doesn't get upset against China on his super speehes.

 

Wouldn't that help to win the election when you come up with a decent plan that gives American workers jobs back and leaves China wihout orders? 

 

   Any president should consider huge changes if a country like China lies about the virus, the suffering people and just stop buying from them.

 

But the US had already started to let China produce steel for some bridges,it's already too late. 

China requires a lot of high-tech companies to hand over their technology if they wanted to sign a contract for a major sale. Boeing was faced with that dilemma about a decade ago, when they were given a major order. In the end they decided to hand over their technology to China in exchange for a major order. A very short-sighted decision, now China is building fairly high-tech passenger planes using Boeing technology that we freely gave them, that we made no effort to protect, and who's going to come out on top in the long run?

The China Aviation sector is probably the strongest in the world at the moment post covid and who is to blame for the lack of sales on the part of Boeing and Airbus? This has been happening in so many different areas of technology and the companies are so desperate for sales they literally hand over their future to China.

There is no way to stop China they will be the world's number one when it comes to GDP and potentially world power within a decade or two There is no way to stop the arrest and the decline of America, there is no way to "make America great again", it's just not going to happen. 

No country that I have lived in or am aware of so far, is as limiting as Thailand. No country that is considered a third world country would consider forcing retirees to have $25,000 tied up in their banks, nor have them check in every 90 days our of the paranoia of immigration such as is here. No country that I know of expects a foreigner to provide 5 or 6 times the income per month of the average citizen living in their country.

What is going on here in this country to me, is maybe part of an attitude reflecting how our own countries treat our immigrants, maybe we are not wanted here, maybe other nationalities are more desired, maybe only the wealthiest people are invited to live here to join the other elitist thinkers in this country. None of us really know the motivation of immigration here. 

Whenever a country makes decision that affects literally thousands of people who are living there in peace, who offer no threat to their society and are willing to provide money and even our support into our new found countries, seems to me these are the type of people that should be welcomed with open arms. 
 
I have never been exposed to the type of utter confusion and chaos Thailand Immigration has caused so many of the people who come here to live and contribute financially to the culture. Those of you who say we would not be missed are wrong. If you take 50% of the 250,000 pensioners living here, you removed over 125,000 people paying monthly expenses, immigration fees, transportation, food and housing costs, plus caring for their kids in private or public schools, taking care of their Thai adopted families, building homes, buying cars and trucks, etc. This would cause damage to many people which could have been avoided, if the rules were laid out to be fair for both this government and expats. 

We are dealing with people and their families here not just numbers in the computer. Uprooting families and their kids and relatives, destroying many relationships of love and trust.
 

No question the property market is in bad shape. And few in a position of authority are facing the music. Courageous of BAM chairman Bunyong Visatemongkolchai to state the truth. The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by half. A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 26,000 a month, he offered 10,000. Though the agent was either shocked, or pretended to be shocked, they settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent or sell anything, at this time. 
 
Demand is way down. The Chinese market is nearly gone, Russians and others are very hesitant to commit. And the long term tourists are gone too. So, who does that leave? Wealthy Thais, many of whom see the market collapsing, and would rather wait and see how all of this shakes out, and ex-pats with cash, many of whom are smart enough to be shopping for bargains right now. 

Anyone interested in buying a condo right now, would be better off waiting awhile. Timing is on your side. Time is now your ally. The economy is going remain devastated here, for a very long time to come. And the longer this goes on, the more people are going to be affected by it, and the more desperate some will become. For the wealthy it barely matters. But, there are many middle class people who have money invested, and there are alot of Chinese and Russians who bought, and cannot even visit Thailand. Some of them will want to unload their properties. Wait. The condo market is severely overbuilt. And demand is low, for all but the top buildings, in the best locations. For condos and houses in the suburbs, and the smaller cities, the market is very soft. 

14 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

But Mike, it doesn't make much sense looking at the current infections.

 

  I tend to believe that all was planned to weaken the West, only to let China take over more businesses. 

 

  I don't care if somebody calls me stupid, but it doesn't make much sense if the country where the virus originated doesn't have any issues with the virus while thousands of people in the West die.

 

All these older people had sons, daughters, and other relatives. It's impressive to see that nobody seems to give a flying kangaroo about China's behavior.

 

Shouldn't they be held accountable for all the mess? It's all right for China only. 

If anybody tells me that this is a coincidence, I do not believe it. 

 

ZHONGSHAN, China — This was supposed to be the year that China’s export machine began to stall. President Trump had imposed broad tariffs on Chinese goods. Countries like Japan and France pushed companies to shift production from China. The pandemic had crippled China’s factories by the end of January.

Instead, China Inc. has come roaring back.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/31/business/trumps-tariffs-coronavirus-china-exports.html

 

      

Hopefully, at some point the truth will be revealed. Although, it rarely ever is. Not to us peons. It could very well have been done with malicious intent by China. That despot regime is very nasty, is determined to regain what they consider to be their rightful place in history, and their intentions are not noble, on any level. So, it is reasonable to suspect them.

However, there are a whole range of possible scenarios, aside from the "bat in the market" nonsense. Virtually everything about the "official narrative" smells fishy. 

Guys like Poovorawan have no idea what they are talking about. And don't you hate the term "new normal"? I despise it. He has no idea where this thing is going. It is a wild guess, at best. And all it does is invoke fear in people, and serves no productive end. Therefore, he is an panic monger, and a threat to the security of the nation. 

And from the beginning, there is only one thing I have been certain about. The official narrative is not the reality, or the truth. Ever.