ChiangMaiFun

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There is a big end of the world movement going on right now~ just google it if you want more information.

I have not been a practicing Christian for some time, but I have to admit that it is starting to look like they may be right.

it's those Mayans you should blame

I understand, on this occasion, it was a car accident which hit the electrical distribution box

The activity described sounds more like a gang bang and technically indeed pimping and prostitution.

In regular swinging several consenting couples are involved.

Okay then so what is wrong with a gang bang if all participants are willing and enjoy it? Again it is private and up to the individuals concerned so just live and let live, no need for legislation about it by some narrow minded bigotted politicians. Also as somebody said it is often nothing about the man being inadequate and not satisfying his wife/partner but because he may actually enjoy watching or knowing his wife is being screwed and she in such cases usually finds it a turn on too whether or not her husband is getting it off with another consenting lady. All this happens all over the world and is not particularly abnormal these days (or in the past but folk were too shy to talk about it) so what the hell is all the fuss about?

To me there is also absolutely nothing wrong with prostitution (although I accept that is illegal here and many countries) but only in my eyes if both parties are doing it willingly for an agreed price, so both gain from it and if discreet should not affect others. I do however detest pimps and forced prostitution whether by family or pimps who should be locked away for a long time. If I was a Thai lady I would much rather sell my sexual assets than work 12 hours a day say in a chicken skinning factory or in the paddy fields but would insist on being able to choose my customers as indeed most Thai ladies of the second category already do. Personally I do not even consider a guy taking the occasional prostitute just for fun enjoyable sex as being unfaithful to his wife, more like having a different beer or food and is not challenging his love and feelings for his wife. A man can have many sexual partners so the sooner everyone accepts that the better and leave it up to each individual as to what he wants and needs in life without anyone being forced into anything and hopefully without hurting their real life partners. I know myself and know I can screw a bar girl for say an hour if I feel in the mood yet still love and never want to leave my wife, sex and emotions are two different things. I am sure I am not the only one hmmm ??

right... sex and emotion ARE different things - a little less sure about the 'unfaithful' bit - it is unfaithful but millions do it and so what?

I feel sorry for them - with all the sex-for-sale and hypocrisy here? they get crucified

nobody is surprised by this I hope - well only the 'I am more Thai than the Thais' posters who see everything through rose coloured specs.

Don't they realise that prositution is illegal in Thailand and definately not tolerated.

yup so shut nana and pattaya for starters?

They crack down on this but Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy go full speed ahead. It confuses me!

exactly

I'd rather pay more and have ore comfort - about 1500

Yes, I apologise for accusing you of ranting. It just seemed like u were tarring all with the same brush. As an observation in certain dealings, I would agree with u. But not all thais are like this. On the whole they're lovely people. :-)

Thanks - which is why I am always careful to use words like 'generally' and the 'majority' because all Thais are NOT like that

(but generally the majority are lovely people too )

But it IS true that people are quick to insult and be rude to fellow posters on TV - we should all agree to disagree and debate without resorting to insults. I have only occasionally got annoyed and insulted someone but that is after they have been rude to me first (and I have been in the 'naughty boy corner' for doing it).

I believe my observation is sound and accurate - and is shared by many. Thais, generally, do see farangs as 'walking ATMs' which is one reason they don't put the price on car windscreens, for instance, because they want to judge the wealth of the prospect and adjust their price accordingly.

Of course there are crooks everywhere - Russia has been mentioned, Africa, Egypt but we are in Thailand and that's what we are discussing. I don't see the double pricing I see here in the western world - I'm sorry to the Thai apologists (who often think they are more Thai than Thais) but I don't see it - but I see it here.

Whilst I agree with electrifieds sentiment, there is a difference between what could be construed as racist, and a genuine observation.

The example given is very very common here. Whilst looking at cars with my Thai wife, I have come across racist farang double pricing constantly, with little exception. This is not this common in other countries. Is Thailand the worst for this practice? Maybe not. But its a valid point of discussion.

I don't agree with saying all thais do this, but it is extremely common. Don't fight it. Be aware of it and as you say, adapt so that you know the price before they see you!

I have a simple rule of asking the price again when they see me, (after my wife has checked the Thai price), if they give me a higher price, I either walk away after telling them politely why, or I end up buying at the lower price as I explain my wife has been given the other price. I. E. I abandon my principal depending on if I can buy the item elsewhere. :-) but I never ever pay the higher price.

which is why I ask my Thai friends to phone first - I was just making an observation - I always hit them with 'this is my Thai friend you told her/him bla bla' and I get the reduced price.

I have to laugh when I hear people endlessly state that Thais will rip you of whenever they can. Thais are no different than any other people anywhere else in the world. People are people. There are good and bad in all walks of life. I lived in Eastern Europe for 4 years. Ever had any dealings with Russians? Romanians? Ever dealt with an Egyptian? Some Americans will rip you off given the chance. Sure some people are fairly straightforward business people. The Japanese come to mind.

And the people who complain (like the OP) about a 100 Baht difference in the price of cooking gas (or whatever), that is not being "ripped off". This is a free market. If you don't like the price of one vendor, then ask the price from another vendor. Prices vary. Shop around. Pay what you think is fair. One seller at the market near my house charges 70 Baht for celery from the Queens Garden. I can buy it elsewhere for 20 Baht. I don't run around telling people that seller is a kamoy. I just don't buy it from him.

Regarding the two price issue - in the Czech Republic when you go to a restaurant, the menu in the Czech language always has lower prices for the same items than the menus printed in English, French, German or Italian. If you go yo a bar and order a drink speaking a little Czech you will get charged less than if you order in English or another language. Just the way it is. If you choose to be an expat living in a foreign country, then get used to the customs of the country. Don't complain; adapt.

Privet! yes I've been to Russia 17 times, Czech 6 times and many other places... it's not about 'adapting' it's about their thinking... and it's true no matter what you say.

One of the tings I like about Asia is that it is, largely, Buddhist. They don't need Christians prosthelytizing here trying to convert uneducated Hill-tribes etc. It is defended on this board as most posters are white and, whilst maybe not practicing, Christian and they see Buddhism as an 'interesting' and 'exotic' part of Asia without understanding it. Christians pick Africa and Asia as it's 'easy pickings' for their 'crusade' to save souls. I, personally, believe Christianity a rather 'immature' religion compared to Buddhism.

Why don't the buddhists take care of the hill tribes? That would take away the opening for other religions to gain market share?

Everybody gives Buddhism a walk but it's some serious Kool Aid that exploits the lower classes. Ask the Chinese and their perception of Tibetan Buddhism's treatment of the 95% of Tibetan serf's. They couldn't stomach the inequity and exploitation.

What you really mean is... 'why don't the Thais take care of the Hilltribes'? - I do agree that 'half a loaf is better than none' and any Christian or Buddhist or Atheist or whatever who cares and helps the needy get's my support - I made that point earlier when debating education. It's the prosthelytizing I am against not the helping of people - so the quiet non-preaching Christians who help are welcome as part of an eclectic society.

Most Thais are not Buddhist (I do not say this for 'effect') most Thais are a mixture of Animism, Hinduism and Buddhism and so we cannot say 'why don't the Buddhist's take care of the Hill-Tribes' - and in fact some do but I don't want to cloud the water. Anyone, who helps anyone, is undertaking 'good'.

we need a decent, non-fawning, newspaper - I will buy it if I can find it

I just feel I might have more respect for the christian missionaries if they would try a more difficult option than coming over here and living in nice houses with maids and gardeners, shopping in high end supermarkets for western food, going to MacDonalds, temporarily adopting some native kids, sending their own kids to expensive private schools and driving expensive cars while all the time receiving a nice salary from home with the promise of more advancement when they return and then trying to convert people from a peaceful and non confrontational religion. It seems to have come a long way from the poor, simple, misunderstood, persuecuted guy in a basic cloth trying by example, to get a unifying message of peace and goodwill to all men over to the masses. I would try to have some respect for these missionaries if they were hungry, thin and barefoot and knocking on doors in say, Afghangistan, Baghdad or somewhere a bit more challenging than Thailand. Just my opinion.

I agree with what have to say with the exception of "...temporarily adopting some native kids..." I don't believe that is the case. I've talked to quite a few Christian Missionaries with adopted Thai kids because there are so many of them living around me. It is not that easy to adopt a child here. It costs a lot of money and involves a few trips down to Bangkok for interviews with police and psychologists and so forth. It is definitely not a temporary thing.

One of the tings I like about Asia is that it is, largely, Buddhist. They don't need Christians prosthelytizing here trying to convert uneducated Hill-tribes etc. It is defended on this board as most posters are white and, whilst maybe not practicing, Christian and they see Buddhism as an 'interesting' and 'exotic' part of Asia without understanding it. Christians pick Africa and Asia as it's 'easy pickings' for their 'crusade' to save souls. I, personally, believe Christianity a rather 'immature' religion compared to Buddhism.

they are emotionally intelligent

Yeppers, they are. It is also not disrespectful to Thai culture for missionaries to be here, but it is disrespectful to Thai culture to not be tolerant of people with different religious beliefs

hahaha

The signs were put up just around the time a car with a loudspeaker was driving around with the same message. There were also these newspaper-like pamphlets with a big picture of hell on the cover (not that appealing) being handed out. Apparently it's a localized Thai church that's doing it.

No matter how you feel about it, why get all upset and emotional about it? The fact is, we have to share this planet with people who have different beliefs and ideas. When they express those beliefs and ideas, why act like it's some violation of our rights?

When they wickedly scare young innocent children, by telling them that they are already miserable sinners and will go to hell, with its fires, tortures and damnation for ever, if they don't constantly praise and worship some supernatural mystical being in the sky, that sees and monitors their every action 24 hours a day....then it's a violation of children's rights, of which we should all be concerned.

You make a valid point as far as preaching hellfire (a doctrine invented to keep churchgoers and those of other religions in line). My point was that the people here in Thailand aren't all up in arms over it. They are tolerant, they are emotionally intelligent (more so than many foreigners). Reading between the lines, some look at the Thais as naive, uninformed. Some have suggested that they're being taken advantage of. Give them more credit than that, please.

Also, as far as all the bashing on this thread, when I read the title 'I Thought I Could Get Away From This' I thought it would be attacking the very bigotry that this thread is now propogating. The other point, basically 'people should keep their own beliefs and ideas to themselves' is hard to take from someone using this thread to do just the opposite.

they are emotionally intelligent

It is about 10 km south of Chiang Rai

Look very interesting - but, of course, we know that their is no 'hell' in Buddhism - only the inevitable karma and you can make your own hell of course - but no God judging from on high! and NO saviour who can wipe out your misdeeds - we all have to pay the piper.

Thanks everybody for contributions... I have an account at Bangkok Bank already and TMB and Ayudhaya I am more interested in the personal service on a branch by branch basis. I am not American - I know Bangkok Bank has a branch in London which could be very useful - but I am interested in Chiang Mai branches.

Wonder what the reaction here on TV would be if these signs were quoting the Koran in a similarly aggressive way ??

I made that point earlier... or Zoroastrians or Scientologists or Satanists - isn't it illegal to put up signs on public posts anyway? I have nothing against Christians but I am against 'preachers' and especially in a Buddhist country - that is the bit I think is arrogant - to come over here to 'save' people and the signs ARE offensive as they speak of FEAR etc.

you're missing the point.... they take advantage of that tolerance in a way Buddhists do not - it's disrespectful

Seen your avatar you look like a fanatic yourself.

ah a new member! with so many posts!!! you don't like my avatar?

Religious freedom is one category Thailand does rate high compared to other countries. A lot of the other freedoms by comparison are far overrated and largely illusions.

Economic, press, speech, internet, legal, and drug freedoms when compared globally are little for Thailand to brag about.

Religious freedom and tolerance in Thailand should be one of it's finer selling points.

Religious Freedom in Thailand

Agreed.

The fact that they made religious intolerance forbidden (even to the point of making it against the law,) speaks well of the society as a whole.

It's certainly speaks well in that one category. Other categories like freedom of the press being neck and neck with Saudi Arabia show there is definitely room for improvement in that area. Lots of other areas are freedom restricted also.

Religious belief is at the core of freedoms. I like a place that doesn't try to control what it's inhabitants believe about consciousness and the universe.

totally agree with that - well said

I'm not worried about the Thai's one bit. The fact is that all of the major religions around the world are on the decline as people become more educated they are sorting out those aspects of religion which are based on humanism and were hijacked from that which is aimed at control. The cool thing about Thai Buddism is that it has kept its roots firmly planted in animism where it belongs.

At our engagement party in the village my wife's grandmother and her great aunts prepaired a huge meal with very expensive dishes and gifts. They prayed for the blessings of their ancesters for our union. It was a very powerful and beautiful thing to witness. They left the banquet untouched by human hands for the ancesters to feast on overnight. I was tempted to check to see if anything had been eaten the next morning but of course that would have been inapproate. Non the less it had the desired effect on me and my devotion to my wife and my commitment to the relationship. The last thing I want to do is piss off a bunch of thousand year old ghosts.

The two things are quite, quite separate. Although Thais love to mix three things - not just two you mention. Buddhism, Animism and Hinduism. This is cultural not specific and Buddhism itself has no REAL ties (or Thai's ) to Animism.

Religious freedom is one category Thailand does rate high compared to other countries. A lot of the other freedoms by comparison are far overrated and largely illusions.

Economic, press, speech, internet, legal, and drug freedoms when compared globally are little for Thailand to brag about.

Religious freedom and tolerance in Thailand should be one of it's finer selling points.

Religious Freedom in Thailand

a swallow does not a Summer make...

You don't know about Buddhist hell, huh? Ever been to Wat Rong Khun?

I think you have an elitist attitude and don't give people enough credit. I went to parochial schools for 13 years, know the Catechism pretty well and yet I'm not a Christian. My wife who attended the "King's School" in Ayudhaya also went to free Christian sponsored English language schools. She could not even tell you now any of the prime tenets of Christianity. If the Thais thought it was problem it wouldn't be happening, period.

Please stick to the subject of putting up 'you will be damned' signs all over Chiang Mai - nothing to do with me having an 'elitist' attitude which is a personal attack and nothing to do with the subject in hand and yes I have studied Buddhism but that, again, is irrelevant.

What next? Muslim signs? Zorostarian signs? I have no objection to them preaching and praying in private and all the other stuff but not in a effort to subject their belief system onto others with signs condemning people to Hell etc. - that is NOT tolerant nor is it respectful.

Let's face it Christians cannot convert many more in Western countries so they come here and it's food and education for compliance - to uneducated Hill-tribes mostly.

You see? I have not attacked you personally - please do the same and argue your case thoughtfully - thank you and God Bless you

So you're saying they are giving an education to the uneducated. That's good isn't it? Please describe the compliance that is expected?

I guess you could argue that any education is better than no education yes - I could buy that.

The compliance is 'Jesus', Bible Lessons, Hymns and Prayers - I know this because I know some of them (and one or two are friends) but it isn't education and food for nothing! it's education and food IF you believe in Da Lord and come to bible lessons etc.

In other words do YOU believe they get this education for nothing? that the Missionaries (mostly farang followed by Thai) have come all this way to help - unconditionally? without expecting conversion? don't think so...

I think the vast majority of missionaries (certanly not all) do what they do so as to continue to receive overseas funding. I think it is largely "about the money". I think the Thai government sees it the same way and thus is extremely tolerant of it. Same like retirees who bring their money here to spend.

no I don't think that's right but never mind