ChiangMaiFun

No, the message is that you and your black friend weren't offended and had a drink and that's it. It doesn't mean that other black or white people wouldn't be offended.

why should they be offended? at what? an Aussie called me a 'Pom' the other day - and what? get a life! with all the pain and crap in the world? the killings? the torture? you are worried about this? jeeze

how is "pom" a racial slur?

If an Aussie calls an Englishman a POM it is not meant to be racist but a term like mate and if you get called a pommie bastard well you have really clicked and life long cobbers. Same as the term kiwi, yank.

black too... I don't like being called a Pommie but I won't cry about it - i hate being called 'mate' too - and yanks don't like being called yanks.

It's not 'tea money' from a local bar is it?

Here is a pretty accurate translation of the context of Suthep's remarks from the newspaper Thai Daily News http://www.thairath.co.th/content/pol/1583

Regarding whetherthe Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) leaders wanting to inviteinternational organizations to observe the elections in Thailand, would behelpful in investigating have otherbenefits, Mr Suthep said, "The (redshirt) leaders have strange (ideas). They don't respect the sovereignty of their own (country). There are many Thai organizations. (Thai) media (representatives), universityprofessors or students or whatever. Whyshould anyone esteem westerners to thatextent? I don't like this sort ofthing. The (red shirts) like to getoutsiders involved in our internal affairs. I don't think they should. Itisn't appropriate.

When asked if theoversight of Thai elections was of a sufficiently high standard to ensure thateverything was done in a fair manner, Mr. Suthep said, "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people. Don't bring westerners here to control Thai people. I think our (own) Election Commission issufficient to the task. If you want tosupplement the oversight of the Election Commission or examine the ElectionCommission itself, then make use of the views of Thai people. The media, the academic sector, the privatesector, the business sector, and students (all) can contribute. (We should) do away with the notion that one ought to run and submit (oneself) to westerners for (the solution to all one's problems). [end translation]

I think it's pretty clear that he was trying to say that he didn't want outside interference and that Thailand was perfectly capable of solving its own political problems. Imagine what American politicians might say at the prospect of giving an international body oversight of American elections! The quote that "I don't respect farangs." is not reflective of the complete quote and does not convey his meaning well.

I don't think the translation is accurate.

The original ThaiRath article refers a verbatim quote from Suthep:

ผมไม่นับถือฝรั่งก็แล้วกัน ผมไม่เห็นว่าฝรั่งจะดีกว่าคนไทย อย่าเอาฝรั่งมาข่มคนไทย

This means

I don't respect western foreigners (farangs).

I don't think that western foreigners (farangs) would be better than Thai people (in overseeing the election).

Don't bring western foreigners (farang) here (into Thailand) to control Thai people.

The controversial first sentence here is concluded with ก็แล้วกัน which could be translated as "and that's that" or "if you want to put it like that". The statement is self-contained and even separated from the next sentence with a space which would not be necessary or would even be incorrect if there was any junction with the next sentence. In the second sentence Suthep may have tried to backtrack from the first, but the meaning "I don't esteemwesterners as being better than Thai people" cannot be inferred here IMHO.

Translation:

I don't respect western foreigners (farangs) = I am not a hypocrite and I do not use farang trained doctors or drive a farang car nor visit their countries

I don't think that western foreigners (farangs) would be better than Thai people (in overseeing the election). = they are not corrupt enough and we could not hide everything

Don't bring western foreigners (farang) here (into Thailand) to control Thai people = we do a great job of controlling the masses ourselves!

The bottom line is that you DO NOT have the right to any sort of active opinion toward Thailand. You are ALL only visitors here most of whom are reeping many benefits in the form of hiding assets, evading taxes, escaping lives in the west, satisfying sexual fantasy tours, maximizing meager retirement accounts by living in this inexpensive land of "wine", women, and song. A minority are actually here for humanitarian or other non- selfcentered reasons. So spare me this "I have rights" bull. Most of you skating through to the end of your lives in a place that makes it all easy and pleasurable for you without having to pay any dues at all. And before you bring up visa fees or bank account mandates, they are in reality a cheap fee to pay in the end analysis. 2000 baht for 3 months = $60 USD. Wow! Sorry but that does not qualify. I am talking more about dues societally. But no one would want to really get involved even if they could. Only complain like armchair quarterbacks.

Aren't farang paying their dues by paying money for everything they receive here? Do you think Thailand would be better off if they all left?

What is it that you do in Thailand?

No, actually that is not paying "dues", that is called "cost of living" and that will occur no matter where you live on this planet. If your post were applied to the full context of my post you would see that your question was answered already but I will reiterate for you. Societal dues in the form of being a citizen of this country and all that being a Thai national entails which almost all farang posters here clearly demonstrate does NOT apply to them. Even those who have been here for decades are still as foreign to this culture as the day they arrived and perhaps have even taken steps backward instead of forward in their acceptance of the fact that Thais have their own unique way of seeing the universe and still feel that it is the Thais who must change because these visiting farang don't approve. Get real Mr Foreigner Farang. If your opinion of anything Thai is contradictory to your view of Utopia, it is NOT your place to judge and certainly not denegrade the Thai people for it. YOU are the foreigner here even though you would like to believe that the universe revolves around your western view of things. Would the Thai way work for us in the west? Nope, but they are not taking to us in our homelands andin the process telling us we are stupid and brainless even though any reasonable person could pick apart any western country's economy and cutlure and quirky habits of the indigenous locals.

I sought a life life partner and found her here in Thailand. I have investments and business in the USA and teach English here as a sideline boredom breaker and small income generator. Let me know what problems you see with my life too. Love to hear your views. Even if it is really none of your business how I live my life or what I do on a daily basis or what political or moral values I hold.............. getting my drift?

I get your drift, what you are; and there are many like you...are nothing more than white clowns here to entertain Thais, be the butt of their jokes and provide a living for your "life partner." Perhaps you could put on some whiteface and sing mammy , just change the words to "farang.

The point is Thailand cannot WAIT to be part of the 'West' - it loves it - jeans, music, cars, holidays, shopping malls - you name it - they want it! and all from those smelly farangs they 'don't respect' - no they would rather be poor, little medical services, no education - they don't care about the West at all! oh no! all those Thai girls gagging to go to Europe/America? an illusion! electing a British PM? all lies! driving farang cars? no way! they wouldn't do that

This is my last post as a European business man here for 11years. How dare this brain dead politician make such a statement about us. No doubt he is driving a high end Germam car manufactured inThailand. Abhiset should demand an immediate apology from him or replace him with Korn.

Just out of curiosity is the guy a red shirt or yellow shirt. I don't know and was just wondering

Neither, he's a Thai democrat not in PAD, but the reds would label him closer to yellow, if you insist on labels.

you mean the guy who stood up at the ILLEGAL airport take-over and cheered on the yellows? and is now Deputy PM? you mean that guy? now let me think...

It is so nice to hear a member of Thai government finally admit to the press. "Suthep: "I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them"

So, then what is he going to do next, if we are still coming to his country as tourists, spending money here, etc.

When he travels abroad to a western country, I would love to see a westerner spit in his face and tell him," I don't respect Thai's, either now get back on your plane and go back to Thailand".

Thailand surrendered to the Japanese P.D.Q in 1941. Oh, they're not farangs. Wait a bit. Who did the Japanese surrender to? Didn't the Japanese also think that they were so much more superior?

BTW How much foreign aid does Thailand soak up? Who invented and supplies all the technology that Thailand enjoys?

I hope that all the farang Ambassadors cross this moron off the invite list next time they hold a shindig - paid for by farang taxes. That should please him no end, not having to share a room with the representatives of people that he doesn't respect..

and tell Tescos, Toyota, Big C, Boots and ALL the Embassies - and destroy his collections (which he UNDOUBTEDLY has) of Shakespeare, Mozart, Michaelangelo and all the other 'rubbish' that farangs have produced over the centuries - and show us all the great cultural 'contributions' the Thai's have produced to the world's libraries, art gallery's and museums.

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them"

the Great Suthet speaks! Abisit would be so much better off without this loose canon ball - what a diplomat! maybe a candidate for the UN Chair?

PS he forget's his boss is an British Passport Holder and his education was in the place 'he doesn't respect'

and some other quite prominent Thais, who demand total respect, were born and educated in farangland

ermmm... you mean the Prime Minister? the best Doctors? the best Professors? the best Dentists? surely not? and I'm sure Suthept has NEVER used any of them???

OH NO he's a Thai!!! he doesn't respect farangs!!!

Reading some of my young Thai niece's schoolbooks it's no wonder they end up which such a twisted xenophobic view of reality. Taught (indoctrinated) from a very young age how special the Thai people are compared to everyone else.

Such a pity that such a beautiful country has such a high % of simpleminded fools populating it.

The same can be said for many, if not all, countries and nationalites... unfortunately. (Many) US citizens think ther're the best because... (Many) Englis think ther're the best because... (Many) Europeans think ther're the best because... (Many) Japanese think ther're the best because... the list is endless... it's not just the Thais.

The 'Englis', as you call us, are no direct comparison, or the Americans and any other developed nation - we might not be in our mid-30s but we are out of junior school at least! you ask any 'typical Thai' some questions?

but... don't mention the War...! they will say 'what war? and REALLY don't mention Thailand were allied to the Axis Powers - they would think you were talking about their Trucks wheel system!

You see this Thailand's great sadness (and weakness) they just are so arrogant. They firmly believe they do it 'best' and don't need assistance - and, of course, are frightened what a truly free and fair election - monitored - would reveal. If there is nothing to hide - what's the problem?

Precisely.

An emerging nation works in exactly the same way as an idiot. Both are aware they they exist. Both think they are smart. But an idiot, by definition is just too stupid to realise that he's not smart. Likewise this insular and plutocratic country proudly regards itself as the Einstein of the known universe.

Which is saying very little as compared to their known universe - Laos, Myanmar, Kampuchea, then the Thai nation is assuredly superior - in the same way that grade 4 schoolchildren are superior to kids in grade 3.

Thailand is a nation of children who are approaching the end of their elementary ('primary' in the UK) schooling. They are top dogs, cock of the walk, the big boys and smarter, bigger and untouchable on their own playground and with legions of smaller kids looking up to them. But can you remember what it was like when you went up to high school? To go from being the total bees knees to being the smallest and most stupid frog in the pond? Being laughed at or totally ignored? Feeling panicked, inadequate, lost and stupid out in the gigantic and scary playground with thousands of others and with you being little and lost, bottom of the pile?

Three hundred years ago Siam segregated the foreigners for very different reasons: they'd never seen any before and were suspicious. Today they alienate foreigners and pretend that farangs are unimportant and disposable because of Thailand's fear of them. In the last few decades the Thai nation has become the oldest kids on it's own elementary playground - the arrogant and cocky big boys - and that's just how they like it. They've now seen over the fence into the gigantic playground where the rest of the world has its high school and it scares the sh*t out of them. They don't want to change. Their nationalistic lips are trembling with panicky tears at the thought of being forced to leave Grade School and go off to a place where they are half the size of everyone else, physically, emotionally and intellectually and technologically.

And so they strut and flap from the security of their little school playground trying to shoo away the curious big boys on the other side of the fence, brave enough where they stand to shout insults and desperate enough to cling for their life to the playground fence, in the sheer dread that it might be collapsing.

The divide will collapse; it has to. Eventually. And the sad thing is that when it eventually does then those who are stupid, too stupid to realise how stupid they actually are, and thoughtlessly, instinctively, believe they are smart, will find an even bigger gap to bridge and with even bigger and smarter boys with far scarier toys than there used to be.

Which is why Thailand clings for grim death to what it has and knows, often appearing ridiculous to the rest of the world - and bleats about the sanctity of 'culture' and how precious it is. They are floundering on the edge of the modern world (which is oozing in torrents into their culture) but they are scared stiff to embrace it.

R

To support my points:

Vont:

Thai people are special, Thailand is special, we are special people.

Thai people are very fortunate to have a King who is like our father, and a Queen who is like our mother.

Our King and Queen are the greatest royal couple in the whole wide world.

We, the Thai people, are the greatest in the world also.

In our water, there are abundancy of fish and in our field, there are golden rice paddies.

There is no other country on this earth that can compare with our beloved Thailand.

We love our King and Queen, we love our Country and we love our religion;

Appropriate:

The Nakhon Rathchasima Rajabhat Institute, which monitors poll fraud in Thailand, estimates that candidates give a total of 20 billion baht (US$460 million) to voters in the 2001 legislative elections.

Chiangmaifun:

You see this Thailand's great sadness (and weakness) they just are so arrogant. They firmly believe they do it 'best' and don't need assistance - and, of course, are frightened what a truly free and fair election - monitored - would reveal. If there is nothing to hide - what's the problem?

TimeBandit2:

Though then it would have more brains than Sutep - who is apparently in a full "I'm more dumber than you" battle with the Peua Thai.

Truethailand:

They just dont want the outside world knowing what sh1t they are up to. Somebody must tell Mr Suthep...its too late because a lot of farangs know exactly whats happening in this 'Myanmar with paint'. Maybe thats why he detests us because we come on forums like this and tell him what a fool he really looks, to the outside world

Obercommando:

It's just the typical confused Thai identity. They want to be like us but are taught to hate and fear us as the same time.

Wlcart:

No surprise here. In my experience living in Thailand, Thai's do not care much for being challenged, observed or accounted. They basically fear others witnessing them failing in any sort of way. They see observable failing as demonstration of weakness and they lack the true confidence needed to show imperfections. Ask a Thai person any question they do not know the answer and watch them feel uncomfortable and nervous.

Pi Sek:

In my honest opinion, Thailand has never held a truly democratic "free and fair" election. For starters, the education levels traditionally mean that a lot of Thais don't actually know what a politician is or what they do.

Fma:

Spoken like a representative from an emotionally very unsecure nation.

ChiangMaiFun:

it is true that Thais are vastly arrogant actually - and hate just about anyone who is not one of 'them' and they think they are better at everything - but if you view them as 12 year olds (for the majority) then you can live here quite well

H5kaf:

Thailand is the centre of the universe and Thais are the chosen ones!!!!!!!http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gifhttp://static.thaivi...ult/biggrin.gif

true and accurate post but the mods might chop it - some things we cannot discuss

<deleted> him, does he honestly believe that foreigners respect him and other Thais

let's be honest - most guys do not come here because they 'love Thais'. I like some Thais but mostly I view them as kids - and that way I get by - if I didn't they would drive me insane with their 'superior' education, world vision and cultural understandings of world art, music and politics - I mean most Thais have no idea Thailand was with the Axis Powers in the war - no idea at all! let them be who they are - 12 year olds in their own 'bubble' - I talk of the majority of ordinary Thais not those exceptional individuals who make up about 5% and are doctors and professionals etc.

It's fine that you say that. It wouldn't be fine for Sarkozy to say that.

but we know it's the 'secret' that's true right? I'm not trying to intentionally insult Thais (a la Suthept style) but...

I don't believe your claims but that is just based upon my observations.

The news articles are still out there for you to read where the AOT board blames their own man on the ground for the airport closure, so it doesn't much matter how you characterize me (as I have told you often, I don't care what you think,) I have made my position on the PAD clear and your characterizations don't change that.

Now to the article you posted .... Amazing that ChangNoi doesn't use ANY of the characterizations you use to describe Sondhi or the PAD. Even though ChangNoi is using Sondhi's history and his own words there isn't any of the racism you ascribe to the PAD evident at all! In fact, ChangNoi refers to both Thaksin's ethnicity and Sondhi's.

The Chang Noi article was an attempt to bring some intelligence to the discussion.I never said Chang Noi reflected my views, although in many areas he does.The article does not even touch on PAD's racism so your comment is irrelevant.You also fail, from what you have posted, to understand some of Chang Noi's other observations, and their implications.Perhaps if you read some more background you would better informed.

As to your crazy ideas on AOT I noticed that your arguments are almost word for word following the case made by Sondhi at the recent court proceedings.You say you have put your PAD sympathies behind you but you still repeat the lies of the current leadership when it suits you.I think we should take your road to Damascus conversion (leaving the PAD madness behind you) with a big pinch of salt.I suspect you are only back pedalling now because the PAD is politically adrift now.I think it's fairly clear where your true sympathies lie.

I agree that ChangNoi's opinion piece isn't racist and doesn't push the opinion that the PAD is racist. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us all on which points of the piece that you would like me to address since I thought I was replying to your claims of racism.

I haven't read what Sondhi has said so perhaps he is reading this and parroting me The fact (that you have never addressed from the beginning) that the AOT BoD blamed the closure on their man on the ground failing to follow protocol etc is simply that. A fact. I haven't changed my opinion on the PAD pre-2009 at all. I have simply stated that since 2009 they are a marginalized group looking for any excuse to be politically relevant. That without Thaksin as a foe they have the same meaningfulness that PTP/UDD has without Thaksin as a hero. Simply no reason to exist at all.

Speaking of background information .... I was reading a New Mandala piece (New Mandala is imho an extreme leftist rag but hey ... seeking a broad base of information is useful) that was written last April 27th by freelander. I can only assume you missed that piece when you were so snidely discussing a general recently in another thread

let's not go into the 'reds have no cause without Thaksin' AGAIN ? it's nonsense

<deleted> him, does he honestly believe that foreigners respect him and other Thais

let's be honest - most guys do not come here because they 'love Thais'. I like some Thais but mostly I view them as kids - and that way I get by - if I didn't they would drive me insane with their 'superior' education, world vision and cultural understandings of world art, music and politics - I mean most Thais have no idea Thailand was with the Axis Powers in the war - no idea at all! let them be who they are - 12 year olds in their own 'bubble' - I talk of the majority of ordinary Thais not those exceptional individuals who make up about 5% and are doctors and professionals etc.

Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

Very stupid and unprofessional for such a senior government official to voice his lack of respect, actually hate, for farangs. Those of us who have lived in Thailand for awhile permanently learn that the vast majority of Thai men not only do not respect us, but hate all farangs. They see us as someone they can lie to and rip off. Thai men do not want us in this country. The Immigration laws get tougher every year trying to throw us out. Those farangs who believe more than 10% of Thai men do not hate them, open your eyes and ears. We are the enemy.

it is true that Thais are vastly arrogant actually - and hate just about anyone who is not one of 'them' and they think they are better at everything - but if you view them as 12 year olds (for the majority) then you can live here quite well

why should they be offended? at what?

Before we go any further with this, you do know that Uncle Tom is a derogatory term used against black people?

an Aussie called me a 'Pom' the other day - and what? get a life! with all the pain and crap in the world? the killings? the torture? you are worried about this? jeeze

You think calling an English person a pom is the same as calling a black person a uncle Tom?

'a prominent display of floor brushes & mops etc branded BLACK MAN'

Where's this 'Uncle Tom' come into it? I think calling:

a black man....... black and a white man....... white

is common sense and a pet a pet...... not a 'human companion' is quite acceptable - no one has called any black man an 'Uncle Tom' as far as I know and no black man has called a white man a 'Honky'

I view most Thai's at about 12 years old (there are exceptions) so I can understand why they enjoy this so much

I know abit of Thai and I don't think this man didn't really mean he 'disrespects' farangs. In fact the use of the word 'farang' is imformal. He should be very careful with his choice of words if he is a public servant who is very much exposed to media. If he chose to say he disregards foreign intervention into Thai polls, that might be more acceptable.

you don't know Suthept! of course he meant it

I reckon the Dems will win anyway and in the subsequent cabinet reshuffle, Suthep will get Foreign Minister portfolio.

ideal job! he's a consummate diplomat - and Thailand will gain so much respect in the international community for giving it to such an intelligent, wise and gifted individual

I had a black friend over the other day - one of the 20 or so in town - and he wanted a drink while helping solve a computer problem. I had Sangsom, an all-around favorite, but his eyes lit up when I offered him a vodka tonic made with some of my Uncle Tom's vodka. He was grinning so big he insisted I take a pic or two of him with the bottle for Facebook. He was fine with it. That's old news and so outdated it's kitsch. If my friend the black man was cool, why should I, the brown guy get my panties in a bind on his behalf?

The message was - We can all loosen up.

No, the message is that you and your black friend weren't offended and had a drink and that's it. It doesn't mean that other black or white people wouldn't be offended.

why should they be offended? at what? an Aussie called me a 'Pom' the other day - and what? get a life! with all the pain and crap in the world? the killings? the torture? you are worried about this? jeeze

have witnessed first hand, the same sad experience in phuket, but as someone has already stated whether its for fun, free etc, it's just not worth the risk, i guess technically if you were to start painting your house, inside or out, the same scenario applies, you're depriving thais work, so where do you draw the line, immigration should stipulate what you can and can't do under current thai law, then it's up to us to consider the risks.

Painting YOUR OWN house would not be a problem. Painting someone else's house (even for free) would be a violation.

it's just absurd

God really sucks at making stable planets. Jeez. I want my money back.

It's the people He puts on it - not the beautiful thing we could have had

Hang Dong the same - no Tsunami hopefully!

This thread is like some kind of 1950's time warp.

I don't know, somehow I don't think folks in the 1950's would "get" this thread.

Well then I guess they would have a lot in common with the majority of posters in this thread.

cummun we are just kidding

Jeeze... that's bad news - so all the 'open mic' type stuff has to stop? sounds more like singing Beatles stuff in 60s Moscow than a few tunes in Chiang Mai - hope they get off

Now that we have put Blackman out of business, let's start an e-mail campaign against racist images on Google!

Lordy Miz Clawdy Mr. Ulyzzzeze I do believe you is related to dat General who saved us down South! Bless you kind Sir!

The run up to the election is what they should be concerned with first. Then monitor the voting place. Let the people police themselves . The Thai voter as do other countries voters deserve what they legally vote into office. When, not if, unlawful acts are alleged/proven, disqualify every candidate of that party in the Province. Then press charges against those involved.

Sorry let me rephrase that.

Do not allow foreign independent witnesses in the first place.

1) Monitor the whole process yourself so that you can see if any voting deviates from that with which you wish.

2) Whatever the end result people deserve it (unless it doesnt happen to be the end result that we want in which case we will change it.)

3) If individual results are not to our liking we will disqualify the candidate and anyone who is connected to him from the election.

4) We will then charge them (maybe) and lock them up.

5) P.S. if you think you are going to vote in Thaksin again, you must be joking.... you have tried that at least twice and we have made it clear that it is unacceptable. So please stop.

spot on!