ChiangMaiFun

No, I don't think the military is "in charge" though I would not argue a stance that they still have too much power. The military (like the reds) is not an entirely cohesive group. That is why Thaksin wanted the Dems out before October, which is why the redshirt rally was timed the way it was.

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

"everyone knows"

Sorry CMF but again you are wrong. Everyone doesn't know. You suggest things that even you don't "know". You think you understand Thailand and what is happeneing here, then you compare it to the labor union movements in Europe, or state "they've won" about the reds when Abhisit said that he'd call an early election. These 2 simple things show that your grasp of what is happening in Thailand is so far from complete that it can't even be considered as a hypothesis for further discussion.

The military and the government moved slowly and methodically when dealing with the armed inurrectionists that took a major section of the commercial heart of BKK as a hostage March-May of this year. The military didn't just jump in guns blazing and tried to minimize casualties. When they did move in they certainly didn't mow down protesters the way people have suggested. They didn't open fire into the masses. They quite successfully got the most militant of the reds to push their borders out and to attack the military. Does it suck that people were killed? Yes. Do we know who did all the killing? No. Were the reds armed with military ordinance? Yes.

Take a look at the new thread about the 5 charged .....

well.. yes they has 'won' at that stage then stupdily (read my threads after where I made this point quite emphatically) threw it all away! Abihsit had caved in - game over - only there stupid strategy caused them to lose - yes lose they did and I admit it and now Abihsit clings to power and will delay the election - ask yourself why? I have also, and you well know it, condemmed any violence.

I do, and make no excuse JD, site the broader, cultural, issues which I believe will lead to change.

I understand there is a renown monk there, only 27, who is (allegedly) an Arhant? any info?

It's Hang Dong way - about 90 kilo meters?

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

Disregarding the "elite" how is Abhisit suggesting things that work against the military? Deputy PM who was in charge of CRES steps down for a by election, which he wins (by a landslide in case any of you wish to deflect the discussion) and is the readmitted to the cabinet. However ex army Gen. Prawit Wongsuwan takes over as head of CRES (possibly as payback for not kicking up a fuss when his Police Chief brother was sent down south to make way for Abhisits' favourite Police Gen Wichean to organise a reshuffle of the police and subsequently ending up in charge, or possibly the fact that he was a classmate of Gen. Sonthi of coup fame). A new dictact from CRES bans goods sold or owned in the provinces under the SOE that promote "disunity" with penalties of up to 2 years in prison signed by new Army Chief Gen Prayuth " the army will not get involved in politics" Chan-ocha who was given the Army Chief post partly as a reward for his actions in the "crackdown" on the redshirts ( any army officer remotely linked to Thaksin is sidelined and Prayuths privileged friendly officers are brought up the line with him) . PM Abhisit feels this is going too far and may take away constitutional rights from citizens (despite saying that no citizens human rights will be affected under the SOE). He is then told that, no, the order will not be rescinded. The Army budget.............etc

Am I missing something here?

I read a few 'possiblies' and 'probablies' and a few absolutes like 'was done, was given, takes over'. You may not have missed something, but I doubt you know all either. This is done and a given and I think probably one of the possibilities with your post unless I missed something ?

OK guys, you're not helping. An ex army Gen with dubious friends in charge of CRES. A full on Army General making laws up as he goes along "there will be no demonstrations when the UN are here" " Sell these and you will be jailed" Abhisit complains, he's ignored. Is this OK behaviour in your book?

The army is in charge of security. They make the rules that will affect security. The PM has delegated security issues to them, so that he doesn't need to make every little decision.

Oh right... got it now... so the USA President say's 'hey chaps I want to fight a war in Iraq but I have delegated security to you - will it be ok please'? rather than 'I have made an executive decision on behalf of the nation - tell me how to get it done'

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

I don't know, I know others who don't know. I only know that absurdly some posters here simply state so. For some just to state seems all the proof needed

I know you don't know - so go check the facts :jap:

I get a return of 7/8% net on my rented out condos - they may not appreciate but the income is good

In this I am probably what you would call ultra-conservative.

I dont have a terrible lot to play with and dont want to get into shares, property or other speculation.

I keep what little I have in term deposits with banks and a couple of safe finance companies (govt guaranteed).

I live on the interest and a small pension.

It can be said that my interest will buy less each year but I find I can live easily on less than the income I get from these two.

That means I can increase me deposits every year or two and hopefully this means my principal and interest increase at more than the rate of inflation

Worked for me so far, but who knows in the future.

Also in the position where the NZ $ is moving up against the Baht and that sure helps.

Sensible I'd say... live life and be happy - I do much the same

No, I don't think the military is "in charge" though I would not argue a stance that they still have too much power. The military (like the reds) is not an entirely cohesive group. That is why Thaksin wanted the Dems out before October, which is why the redshirt rally was timed the way it was.

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

The Govt. told the army what to do?Sorry, you have got it back to front. The army told the Govt, what they intended to do. Why do you think the P.M. ,was holed up in an Army camp for weeks?He was under starters orders. Who is the starter> The army. Nothing gets done here ,without the army's approval

That was my point! the Army pulls the strings - Govnt JUMPS and says 'how high'?

Today I drove home behind a small van carrying school children of a very young age. I'd estimate a bus full of 8 year olds. A constant stream of litter was thrown out; cartons of drinks, sweet wrappers etc.

The point is that no adult on the van did anything to intervene. So the children have no moral compass; no role model adult. So I witness the young without a sense of morality and an adult in charge of children also without a sense of right and wrong.

That's typical across Thailand. It is a society without morals, professionals without ethics; organisations without standards. Bangkok pubs flaunt the rules and 60 die in the inferno. Same in Pattaya. Death at Siam Paragon as a child falls to its death as there is no balcony rail. The examples are endless.

A friend of mine reckoned that 99% of thais were corrupt. The other one percent were simply awaiting their chance.

How often have you suffered the antics of an out of control child ina restaurant or shopping mall where the parents seem oblivious to appalling tantrum behaviour? It is a common place occurrence. The Thais will not act responsibly with their children neither do they apply a normal level of moral certitude to their own lives.

And where they do approach anything resembling compassionate morality it is bizarre. I witnessed a well dressed Thai at a Loi Kratong celebration point to a single baht in the road, gesturing for the beggar to seize it. There was no inclination to give money or to hand over a meal, but at best there was this strange attempt to do what exactly?

I despair for Thailand. The Thais are their own worst enemy and they do it to themselves. Malaysia streaks ahead; Singapore and Hong Kong operate ina different universe; Burma has the potential to roll back 50 years of stagnation over night; Cambodia is climbing out of genocide; Vietnam has forged ahead and put a War behind it; Laos can blame communism, but what excuse can you find for Thailand?

I would argue none other than it simply implodes. Currently, we have red versus yellow so it couldn't be simpler. We, the much maligned foreigners, couldn't have planned it any better.

spot on! Thais have no sense of responsibility - they are like twelve year olds in many ways

If the yellow shirts and the red shirts are against him, the PM must be doing something right.

+1

as for truethailand's "massacre of his own people" ---- They simply should not have been armed and carrying out an insurrection. You can only warn people for so many months before they HAVE to be shut down. The difference between May 2010 and the past is that the government survived, and that the military responded to the call from the civilian government.

'and that the military responded to the call from the civilian government' oh dear oh dear - you are aware they pull the strings period

morality? here? isn't morality a Buddhist concept? you mean they might start actually practising it? am I dreaming?

Maybe it should read 'convicted criminal Sondhi Limthongkul', I detest this guy but at least he has finally realised that abhist is a damp squib

And Taksin is a ... ?

dry squib? and 1000 yellows? - wow what a show of force

Just a quick update. I just got a call from my lawyer and I won the case in Chiang Mai Court !!! So im officially daddy now =)

We did go with the adoption (gives automatically custody). Still have to wait for some weeks with all the paper work but the case is won!!!

thanks to Khun Akarawath and his crew!

Good for you! I am still amazed at how selfish Thais can be sometimes - call herself a GM? lucky girl to have a decent Dad like you

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

That is all true - but one other thing that 'could' help is an understanding of Buddism and it's focus on personal responsibility - if the Sangha led a bit more and this basic precept was taught and understood maybe... just maybe... Thai boys might consider the other persons feelings and future and their personal karmic 'reward' which, I might add, will be devestating if they have had a child and not supported the Mother.

Sadly the Buddhism practiced is not the same as the Buddhism preached.

Now that is so true... but I believe the Sangha 'should' lead - now wouldn't that be a first!

people love to put others into a 'box' (he's a red etc.) and if that's the case he loves Thaksin - none of this is fair nor true -

All the time the red movement continues to fight on Thaksin's behalf and very little else, people who support the group will naturally be assumed to be fans of his, because to support the reds implicitly means supporting Thaksin. Why? Well because if the reds political arm (the PTP) wins they will set about bringing him back, returning his money, and whitewashing him of any crimes he may have committed. Anyone who believes otherwise is fooling themselves in my opinion.

yes,yes but it's not just about the 'reds' - Thailand irrevocably is moving forwards and that's the thing I am referring to - anyway enough already! I see all movements (Burma etc.) as a shift in conciousness and i see it here - slow but sure.

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

That is all true - but one other thing that 'could' help is an understanding of Buddism and it's focus on personal responsibility - if the Sangha led a bit more and this basic precept was taught and understood maybe... just maybe... Thai boys might consider the other persons feelings and future and their personal karmic 'reward' which, I might add, will be devestating if they have had a child and not supported the Mother.

By-elections are rarely an indication - and depends where they are. Anyway we will not really know until IT happens - which the current government are trying to stall as long as possible.

If a government reached the end of its term and started giving excuses for why elections couldn't be held, that would be stalling.

A government that has yet to reach the end of its term has no obligation to call early elections and if it chooses not to, that is not stalling, that is serving out its term - something which people claiming to be pro-democracy lovers should welcome.

I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean.

No i don't see what you mean. The people at the top of both the yellow and the red movements are all rich elitists who only have their own interests at heart, and it's the people at the top who will ultimately benefit from any success their group manages to achieve.

well that is true there are 'elitist' elements in both and I am against them in either camp - people love to put others into a 'box' (he's a red etc.) and if that's the case he loves Thaksin - none of this is fair nor true - I am for the poor and down-trodden and against the 'controllers' at the top. If only we had a aung sung suu kyi - but we don't.

Ah .. that is a great answer CMF! It not only lets you off the hook for answering any of my questions but also includes an attack on the poster himself

Again ... there is no paradigm shift occurring since there is no change in the thought process occurring. The redshirt movement might be mistakenly labeled as leading to a paradigm shift, but since it is still relying on the patronage system to exist, the label would be erroneous.

No attack intended - but if you can't be open to the idea of a cultural shift (as has happened in ALL other societies in the world) then how can we discuss sensibly? I am not trying to ‘score points’ at all – or try and make anyone look stupid or, indeed, make myself look ‘clever’. I just outline my approach and point out that your approach is very much micro mine is macro and you keep asking detailed questions which are irrelevant within the cultural shift context. Saying ‘what about this politician, or that situation’ is irrelevant in the broad stroke context. To say 'there is no paradigm shift occuring' is absurd - ina micro context I hear Thais all the time questioning things they would never have dared question before - including 'you know what' - a typical sign of thinking changing.

Claims that it isn't about Thaksin are just in the minds of the people making the claims. PTP and the Reds have repeatedly said that this is about Thaksin.

The by-elections certainly indicate that the reds have lost the backing of most of the people (not that they EVER had "most" -- though when Thaksin bought up the regional powerbases of the local machines in 2005 he was able to get the votes

If one knew enough of the history of some of the red leadership he would know that there certainly are elements that would like to see a radical change in how Thailand is governed.

We will never see eye-to-eye on this as my approach is based on a wide cultural paradim which has nothing to do with 'shortterm-ism' and certainley not about Khun T. but to do with Thai people starting the slow process of demanding change - change from being subdued by the 'elite' whoever they are - and based on thinking outside of the Thai 'box' that their 'betters' have put them firmly in!

While I understand that you WISH that such a paradigm shift would occur, currently it is just that. Wishful Thinking. Your "approach" has nothing to do with what is actually happening in Thailand, now does it?

Please give us examples of how the red shirt movement has shown itself to be anything that it claims to be. (or anything that you claim it is!) Their political arm has refused elections. Their political arm has never spoken about the nature of democracy etc etc etc. All that has been said has been complaints against how things are .. with no solid suggestions of how they should change ... and "bring back Thaksin".

Where are PTP's platform planks on reducing corruption?, redistributing wealth in a way that doesn't kill the tax-base?, improving opportunities for people in rural Thailand? improving education? creating a more fair system of advancement other than the patronage system now in place (and strongest in rural NE Thailand.) etc etc

You don't understand the concept of paradigm shift so no point discussing it

Hello ChiangMaiFun,

Very few things worse than painful backs and the many radiating pains as well. Been there - done that ! My sympathies.

I have had reservations about using chiropractors ( some bad experiences )and physiotherapists because some manipulations are contra-indicated by your condition - but having said that, my wife has been getting intense pains recently ( back, hips, shoulder and neck ... you name it !) and has resorted to the services of a physiotherapist at the Siripat Hospital. She says that the therapist is the best thing ever. Her experienced hands "feel" and "know" what's under there causing the pains and she treats accordingly. Early days yet - but she feels this is the best thing since sliced bread ! The therapist has advised my wife to avoid ( absolutely ) certain exercises and postures which would only exacerbate the problem and pains and has given her alternate ones. Prior to her visits to the physiotherapist, my wife went to a masseuse - good, but simply, just not in the same class.

Assessment at Siripat hospital = 60 baht. Treatment, usually between 60 mins - 90 mins including deep-heat, ultrasound, masssage and exercise

= 280 baht.

You might consider this. Good luck and hope you get to feel easier soon.

Cheers.

Dr. Ken Leeper is putting me back on track after six years of medication, pain and bad temper. Before that I used the services of the Swiss guy at Global Doctors but he moved back about 6 years ago. I agree it does not work for everybody but it is working fine for me.

he's a back specialist? based where? charges please?

Hi - many thanks for the offer - I think if it's that much trouble I'll pass on this one as I would not want it in my new fridge but thanks anyway - I was hoping a shop stocked it so i could buy some just to throw in my pond - i read Guppie love it

I have thousands of guppies in various ponds, and I find that feeding them the high protien flake food is option, but don't get them too used to it or they will never go back to the generic "pellets". Once in a while is fine as promotes healthy fish and breeding.

ahhhhhhhh yes you are 100% right! I have been giving them the flakes and they now won't eat anything else - they have grown to about 1,000 now and they leave the pellets alone! at 95 baht a tub for those flakes they get through a tub every two weeks - maybe some 'tough love' is called for.

Wish they would eat the dam_n snails!!!

Claims that it isn't about Thaksin are just in the minds of the people making the claims. PTP and the Reds have repeatedly said that this is about Thaksin.

The by-elections certainly indicate that the reds have lost the backing of most of the people (not that they EVER had "most" -- though when Thaksin bought up the regional powerbases of the local machines in 2005 he was able to get the votes

If one knew enough of the history of some of the red leadership he would know that there certainly are elements that would like to see a radical change in how Thailand is governed.

We will never see eye-to-eye on this as my approach is based on a wide cultural paradim which has nothing to do with 'shortterm-ism' and certainley not about Khun T. but to do with Thai people starting the slow process of demanding change - change from being subdued by the 'elite' whoever they are - and based on thinking outside of the Thai 'box' that their 'betters' have put them firmly in!

I've got some that I bought off ebay about 6 months ago (they have been kept in the fridge well sealed up). I hatched one small batch of them and they hatched well, but to be honest can't be bothered with the faffing around...

It's quite a big bag full - about 30 grammes if I remember correctly. They cost me about 500 Baht delivered. You are welcome to them for half of that if you want them, and I will even give you my homemade hatchery! It would be nice to get them out of my fridge and have someone actually do something with them...

Hi - many thanks for the offer - I think if it's that much trouble I'll pass on this one as I would not want it in my new fridge but thanks anyway - I was hoping a shop stocked it so i could buy some just to throw in my pond - i read Guppie love it

Nonsense - get your facts right - anyway roll on elections coz they will be voted in!

The upcoming by-elections will be interesting. The recent by-elections, and the current coalition, seems to indicate that the PTP don't have a chance of winning an election.

By-elections are rarely an indication - and depends where they are. Anyway we will not really know until IT happens - which the current government are trying to stall as long as possible. I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. So I'm caught in the middle (not that it matters what we farangs think).

Anyway what most people CAN agree on is that 'supressing and censoring' cannot be the sign of a healthy democracy - whatever colour you may sympathise with.

In the west, I'd generally agree that by-elections don't give a good indication - too often there is just a meaningless protest vote against the government. I don't think the Thai population understand the processes well enough to do that. IMO, they'll vote for the same people they would vote for in a general election - which the government will call when they are ready, and not just because a minority group wants it.

"I am not particularly in favour of a 'red' government but I am against the rich, elitist 'yellows' - if you see what I mean. "

I see what you mean, but I think that any 'red' government will have the worse "rich, elitist" at the helm. The current government is not "the yellows", as shown by the number of protests by yellows against the government recently.

I have an aversion to the 'yellows' claiming the 'high ground' and claiming everything against them is against the 'other thing' we cannot dicuss. No one wants T back and I don't believe the red thing is ALL about him (some is of course) but it's a larger cultural 'move' (hopefully forward).