jayboy
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A bunch of brave man here acting her from behind your computer.
Says the guy who's post was deleted by the mods (in another thread) after he hoped (from behind his computer) that someone would shoot Suthep. Buy a mirror. Ikea has some cheap ones I heard.
It also betrays a complete misunderstanding of Suthep's significance.He would not have acted as he has without very clear support.Even if Suthep hypothetically decided to spend more time with his family, nothing would change - or to be more precise the unelected elites would find another way to push their agenda forward.Equally if Thaksin disappeared from the scene it would not have the effect his enemies desire because the genie is out of the bottle, ie ordinary Thais have become politicised.Too much emphasis is placed in this conflict on the significance of individuals with the demonisation of both Suthep and of course Thaksin.It doesn't work like that.Tectonic plates are shifting in Thailand and various interests and social groups are struggling to retain or improve their position.So fasten your seat belts -we're in for a bumpy ride.
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What a oversight from Mr T...
Tried to own parliament but forgot he had to own EC as well
Could have organized elections by himself, only allow little Sis registration and... et voila...
The EC is owned by others.
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So is this game, set and match to Suthep? All of his demands have been met, after a short but desperate struggle by the government to resist, yet they capitulated every time. Yingluck will cease to be the acting PM imminently, possibly even before the day is out. The situation is very fluid and has been given a shot in the arm by the police sending 50 of the protesters to hospital with gunshot wounds.
No, the EC has an opinion. The government could say they don't agree and tell the EC to proceed with 2nd Feb.
At the same time big brother makes a few payments. And the Shin world is rosy again....
Just it might be too obvious.....
There was never much doubt the February 2nd election would be cancelled.What was less certain which coup created set of judges would be instructed to take the decision.
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For the benefit of one or two who remain confused the easiest way to obtain clarity is to read the statements issued by foreign governments.These do not support Abhisit's interpretation since they support the current Thai government's approach to the problem.
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There is no evidence other than statements issued by foreign governments which are a matter of public record.Obviously the language is muted because nobody wishes to be seen to interfere.The preference for a general election,not obviously on a precise day, is very clear.Equally there is a clear wish for all sides to cooperate in a reform process.There is no support for the Suthep proposal.Abhisit pretends that there is no such foreign consensus -essentially backing the government's approach - but this is not the case.
Spin, as always.
You just said there is no absolute specific proof that other countries mean the 2 Feb date, then you just go crazy with other things trying to prove surapong's claim of support.
Which is it?
My post is very clear and I have nothing to add to it.Certainly it addresses your rather incoherent question.
No, you haven't answered the question, You state that the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd. Then when challenged to prove that you can't.
Forgetting the feeble waffle attempt to divert, can you prove your statement? Or would you accept you made a mistake? Or did you intentionally make it up?
Once again read my post.If you are trying to suggest the international community has not given backing to the government's approach, you would be unable to demonstrate it for the simple reason it isn't true.Flail around all you like, you can't alter the facts - because the statements are on record.
If you are trying to make the basis of your case the February 2nd date, grow up.
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Come on jayboy, provide some proof that the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd.He's lying.It's quite clear the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd.At the same time it doesn't want to interfere in Thailand's internal affairsYou have references that support that the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd?
Please could you supply them?
Not the usual - support democracy, free and fair elections and resolve peacefully as is the norm. But specifically supporting the elections to be held on 2nd February.
You have called Abhisit a liar - can you substantiate that with fact?
To be honest, I don't think you can provide such evidence.
There is no evidence other than statements issued by foreign governments which are a matter of public record.Obviously the language is muted because nobody wishes to be seen to interfere.The preference for a general election,not obviously on a precise day, is very clear.Equally there is a clear wish for all sides to cooperate in a reform process.There is no support for the Suthep proposal.Abhisit pretends that there is no such foreign consensus -essentially backing the government's approach - but this is not the case.
Spin, as always.
You just said there is no absolute specific proof that other countries mean the 2 Feb date, then you just go crazy with other things trying to prove surapong's claim of support.
Which is it?
My post is very clear and I have nothing to add to it.Certainly it addresses your rather incoherent question.
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He's lying.It's quite clear the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd.At the same time it doesn't want to interfere in Thailand's internal affairs
You have references that support that the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd?
Please could you supply them?
Not the usual - support democracy, free and fair elections and resolve peacefully as is the norm. But specifically supporting the elections to be held on 2nd February.
You have called Abhisit a liar - can you substantiate that with fact?
Come on jayboy, provide some proof that the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd.
To be honest, I don't think you can provide such evidence.
There is no evidence other than statements issued by foreign governments which are a matter of public record.Obviously the language is muted because nobody wishes to be seen to interfere.The preference for a general election,not obviously on a precise day, is very clear.Equally there is a clear wish for all sides to cooperate in a reform process.There is no support for the Suthep proposal.Abhisit pretends that there is no such foreign consensus -essentially backing the government's approach - but this is not the case.
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@ jayboy Comparing George Orwell with Nick Nostitz is like comparing chalk with cheese. And I still maintain Journalists/Photographers, are there to observe and report news events,and not get involved in becoming the news.
NB George Orwell often submerged himself in the subject in order to gain material for his books. Such as "Down and out in London and Paris" in which he spent a year living with Tramps and taking on first hand their lifestyle!
I'm not comparing Nick with George Orwell.I'm making the point that a journalist can be committed or sympathetic to one side as long as he retains integrity and reports honestly.Another example would be the great American journalist Ed Morrow who reported from London during the Blitz.By some people on this forum's criteria he should have been even handed between the Nazis and the British.
Nick didn't want to be part of the story.He was attacked by Suthep's thugs.
Nostitz claimed he was assaulted for no reason while on the other side, he was said to have provoked the protestors into attacking him. You call the protestors 'thugs' but Nostitz may well be the provocateur here. He gets the attention and he gets the protestors to look bad. Not a bad trade for a few love taps on his face.
Grow up.
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He's lying.It's quite clear the international community has a clear preference for elections on February 2nd.At the same time it doesn't want to interfere in Thailand's internal affairs
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@ jayboy Comparing George Orwell with Nick Nostitz is like comparing chalk with cheese. And I still maintain Journalists/Photographers, are there to observe and report news events,and not get involved in becoming the news.
NB George Orwell often submerged himself in the subject in order to gain material for his books. Such as "Down and out in London and Paris" in which he spent a year living with Tramps and taking on first hand their lifestyle!
I'm not comparing Nick with George Orwell.I'm making the point that a journalist can be committed or sympathetic to one side as long as he retains integrity and reports honestly.Another example would be the great American journalist Ed Morrow who reported from London during the Blitz.By some people on this forum's criteria he should have been even handed between the Nazis and the British.
Nick didn't want to be part of the story.He was attacked by Suthep's thugs.
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I think 'Nikolaus Freiherr von Nostitz', (Nicks birth name) "a German photographer" was aware that his bias reporting was not appreciated by those who he opposed and that an incident like this was more likely than not. It is an incident of his own making and as a public personality he should solely shoulder the blame for exposing himself to this danger. He should be thankfull that he was slapped by relatedly civilised people, if he was reporting from Syria or Egypt I am sure he would never have got away with it so lightly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Nostitz This page was last modified on 25 November 2013 at 12:35.
Being a Journalist is very much a job that calls for complete impartiality.In this case,I believe his talents would have been better served on: another completely low key assignment!
Nonsense.Many great journalists have reported from various political viewpoints - whether from the left or the right.George Orwell reporting from Spain during the civil war is a classic example where his sympathies were very much with one side.The key issue is whether the approach is honest or not, and in the case of Nick Nostitz his integrity and courage is not in doubt.Of course what really irks the haters is that he casts light on areas that they would prefer to see hidden.
What is particularly repellent is the snide endorsement or near endorsement of violence against a fine reporter.
lol, Your brave courageous photographer was bitch slapped for arguing with a guard, hardly in the same league as the brave reporters that were locked in their TV station which was then set alight by a baying mob of peaceful redshirt protestors. An incident that I cant recall Herr Nostitz reporting.
I have no idea what incident you are referring to nor do I know whether Nick was present.
In any event it is irrelevant and your ugly and crude language endorsing violence simply proves my point.Nick has been widely praised - to my certain knowledge both by Chris Baker and Jonathan Head.
Nick may be on the hate list now but the enemies of democracy in Thailand loathe all foreign media scrutiny.What happened to Nick could easily happen to others in the current climate.
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I think 'Nikolaus Freiherr von Nostitz', (Nicks birth name) "a German photographer" was aware that his bias reporting was not appreciated by those who he opposed and that an incident like this was more likely than not. It is an incident of his own making and as a public personality he should solely shoulder the blame for exposing himself to this danger. He should be thankfull that he was slapped by relatedly civilised people, if he was reporting from Syria or Egypt I am sure he would never have got away with it so lightly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Nostitz This page was last modified on 25 November 2013 at 12:35.
Being a Journalist is very much a job that calls for complete impartiality.In this case,I believe his talents would have been better served on: another completely low key assignment!
Nonsense.Many great journalists have reported from various political viewpoints - whether from the left or the right.George Orwell reporting from Spain during the civil war is a classic example where his sympathies were very much with one side.The key issue is whether the approach is honest or not, and in the case of Nick Nostitz his integrity and courage is not in doubt.Of course what really irks the haters is that he casts light on areas that they would prefer to see hidden.
What is particularly repellent is the snide endorsement or near endorsement of violence against a fine reporter.
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These are the leaders of industry and business in this country who are the only ones that have been keeping the country running and in any sort of economic shape during the last 2 years.
They have not only seen first hand the corruption but have been paying for it.
They can clearly see the flaws in the education system for they are the ones who have to recruit young people into their organisations and know the poor standard that education is producing.
They can see the abject mess the rice scheme is for the exporters are among their membership.
They know what state the economy is in and can see where things are heading.
Any reforms can only be to their advantage and that they are now taking a lead in proposing reforms can only be good for the country.
They now need to get Suthep to sit down with them and get him to join with them in sorting out just who and what a reform group will consist of.
Suthep's general aims are the same, reform starting now.
That he is now going on about getting rid of the Shin clan is really secondary for the Shins are on the way out.
When the courts get through with banning the 383 (312 PT) there will be very few if any left.
The Dems will also go along with an immediate start to reforms but PT will be dead against it.
Unfortunately it could end up with the reds coming back out, particularly when the courts ban the 383, the cops would stand back and do nothing and the army would be forced to defend the court and the judges, back to 2010.
I sincerely hope not
Tendentious nonsense from a predictable source with stale arguments long since demolished, and a few lies as well.As a refreshing contrast to this junk the Asia Wall Street Journal has a good opinion piece which among other things touches on this thread's topic.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304020704579275631180950354.html?dsk=y
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Indeed! Astonishing that old Etonian Abhisit cannot ask fellow Etonian David Cameron for some advice on how a conservative party can win a democratic election! Examples abound in western Europe and the United States - from Maggie Thatcher to W. to Sarkozy. As the risk of oversimplifying, it is a question of money and brains - both resources the opposition must possess in spades. And since Abhist and Sutthep claim to speak for " the people", how could they not win an election??")
Again, he wants to postpone, and again, he fails to propose a legal basis for doing so.
The government does not set the election date. The independent Election Commission does. The EC actually wants to postpone, but they can't because the constitution doesn't let them.
Well perhaps but Abhisit was friendly with Boris, and I understand did not know Cameron at school.In any event friendship only goes so far and I doubt whether Boris (who is a cunning and astute man) will be that keen to shmooze with a politician with Abhisit's antidemocratic credentials.
But your point is valid.In a normal world after several defeats the Democrat Party would have a serious rethink and consider how it could make itself more attractive to the Thai electorate.This in UK terms is exactly what Tony Blair did with the unelectable Labour Party and although his record is now tarnished by his foreign policy, it's worth remembering what an astounding political feat Blair achieved in detoxifying the Labour Party and turning it into an election winning machine.
This is exactly what Abhisit should have done.What he has actually done is to sow the seeds of his party's eclipse and his own mainstream political future.
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So it seems to me that Tony Cartalucci must be doing something right since some of you are so desperate in your attempts to assassinate man's character without actually providing any facts to the contrary.
Why don't you simply pay more attention to his links, what he actually says based on his own sources and then try to take his argument apart by using your own sources and facts instead of posting incoherent rants against the man.
But it is his website and links that inform my opinion.I have provided examples of his crazed ideas.I know nothing about the man himself.
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Good to see Cartalucci getting some exposure. He is a rare bird in that he reports facts without allowing emotion to cloud his judgement, which combined with his long term familiarity with Thailand makes his articles well worth reading. All too often these international reporters, some clearly looking like disheveled junkies, seek short term relationships with workers in the "entertainment" industries, straight after arriving in country from other less hospitable places, and read way too much into the drunken pillow talk they hear.
We're talking about the same Tony Cartalucci right? This is conspiracy theorist Tony Cartalucci that writes for Alex Jones' Infowars? Does he report the 'facts' in the same way that Alex Jones does?
Yes, the very same.Still it's interesting that he is getting much exposure on the Thai political crisis, and is widely quoted - even though a quick survey of his views (on non Thai matters) demonstrates he is nuts.He is for example a passionate Assad supporter and believes 9/11 was an inside job etc etc.I know nothing about his background but it is curiously akin to the mindset of some Indian/Pakistani commentators - where zany conspiracy theory is a way of life.
The trouble is the Democrat/Suthep people have a conflicted view of foreign press coverage.They hate to have their darker side scrutinised by outsiders and yet at the same time crave foreign approval.Unfortunately every serious foreign news source, academic, think tank, ambassador tends to identify the obvious - namely the deeply undemocratic nature of the anti government opposition.This means that their few foreign supporters are given great prominence, not only the laughable Cartalucci but also the equally absurd American, Michael Yon.Personally I find Michael Yon more absurd than Cartalucci, because at least the latter has some command of the material.Yon is just plain ignorant.Yet both have huge support across the social media from the actiivist urban middle class - and shamefully for educated men, Abhisit and Korn have taken up Michael Yon as a credible source.
Finally, since invoking oddities like Cartalucci/Yon etc is ultimately self defeating we will inevitably hear more on the lines that Thailand is utterly inexplicable to foreigners, follows unique rules unknown to other countries and that you have to be a Thai (in practice often descendants of Southern Chinese coolies) to appreciate "Thainess".
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Actually, a poll around the last election showed that people preferred the Democrat policies.
It could be argued that "trust" is just as important as individual policies are in such opinion polls. Concealing the names of the parties behind the policies removes that crucial element, which has a big influence on voter's decisions. At the very least, these results demonstrate how much distrust has a role in Thai voter's decisions.
I agree. But many posters seem to think the Democrats lose because of their policies.
Most people in Thailand don't vote for policies, they just vote for the same families that they have always voted for, regardless of which party they are in.
Nonsense.People in Thailand are like people anywhere else.They vote for politicians and parties they believe will best serve the needs of their country, their communities, their families and themselves.
If the Democrats thought they had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the election on February 2nd there would be no talk of delay.
The answer to the Democrats problem is of course is to develop policies likely to appeal to the country at large (not just by copying Thaksin's policies as they did last time) and eject the failed leadership.But what they have actually done is to drift further to the reactionary right, and ditch the one person who understood what was needed to make the party re-electable (Alongkorn).
They deserve their coming failure.
...and you honestly believe that the people are of the opinion that PTP "will best serve the needs of their country, their communities, their families and themselves"...?
Wake up, and get yourself ready for the wake up call that up-country voters are ultimately set to deliver to this crooked regime.
The coming failure will be that of the Shinawatra dynasty....!!
You have failed to grasp the point.The issue is not whether PTP or any other party will measure up but rather the criteria all voters apply when making choices.
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Ummm ... did you read the comment about the poll where people preferred the Democrat policies?
If the Democrats supposedly copy Thaksin's policies, and people don't vote for them, does that mean that Thaksin's policies are no good?
No, it means the Thai people are not idiots and can see through political opportunism.
To stand a fighting chance the Democrats must become a genuinely national party, detoxify its reputation,geniunely embrace electoral democracy (ie not rely on military and judicial intervention), cut its links with feudal and military vested interests, build up a large membership base and of course eject discredited leaders.
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Actually, a poll around the last election showed that people preferred the Democrat policies.
It could be argued that "trust" is just as important as individual policies are in such opinion polls. Concealing the names of the parties behind the policies removes that crucial element, which has a big influence on voter's decisions. At the very least, these results demonstrate how much distrust has a role in Thai voter's decisions.
I agree. But many posters seem to think the Democrats lose because of their policies.
Most people in Thailand don't vote for policies, they just vote for the same families that they have always voted for, regardless of which party they are in.
Nonsense.People in Thailand are like people anywhere else.They vote for politicians and parties they believe will best serve the needs of their country, their communities, their families and themselves.
If the Democrats thought they had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the election on February 2nd there would be no talk of delay.
The answer to the Democrats problem is of course is to develop policies likely to appeal to the country at large (not just by copying Thaksin's policies as they did last time) and eject the failed leadership.But what they have actually done is to drift further to the reactionary right, and ditch the one person who understood what was needed to make the party re-electable (Alongkorn).
They deserve their coming failure.
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It makes more sense to follow democratic principles set in place under the current constitution to allow for an election to determine the next government.
Closing down international airports, blocking roads, creating chaos, violent acts etc... are not part of a democratic society.
Those actions break laws that were enacted to safeguard the principles of democracy, the people, from violence, dictators and the like.
Let the elections proceed and see what happens. Everyone must learn to live within the legal framework and not to take to the streets every time to force out an elected government. Spend more time on the campaign trail and touching the lives of the people in a real way if you want to win an election.
Everyone is talking about reform because of Suthep, the government have no interest in improving Thai society,, they only want power.
2 months and very little violence- only a skirmish between vocational students and police, Ramkhamhaeng students and the red shirts.
Suthep has galvanized the entire middle class across the country. He has the south as well.
This is all so beyond Yingluck, even Thaksin can't help her now.
And the Suthep mob/Democrats do not want power?
Yes the violence has been virtually non existent, thanks to the Yingluck administration which has shown discretion and patience.The whole community of nations have praised this spirit of humanity,
Unlike the Abhisit government which murdered unarmed civilians.
Yes the Bangkok middle class -largely Sino Thai - has hooked itself to the old unelected elites.Useful idiots in Lenin's famous phrase.But don't be under the illusion that there aren't many middle class Thais who while having no love for Thaksin are repelled by the Democrat/Suthep alliance.
If you think Yingluck (or rather the the people of Thailand who stand behind her) are finished, let's see what the next general election decides.
Bring it on.
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I wouldn't be surprised if Yingluck has told Thaksin she doesn't want to be PM again but will continue to pretend she will take the post again to boost votes for Pheua Thai.
They have no other pin-up poster boys or girls. Pongthep is cute but rather dull and Chaturon's voice is too reedy to attract the grassroots.
On the other hand the Democrats are brimming with intellect and personal magnetism- Apisit, Korn and Dr Surin come to mind.
I think I see what you mean but surely none of the Dems you mention really appeal to the grass roots.
Abhisit and Korn have considerable intellects.My feeling is that Surin is comparitively speaking a light weight - a very overrated bureaucrat type who bends with the breeze.
Korn and Surin do have real charisma but as noted above they don't have a very broad appeal.
Where I completely disagree with you is on Abhisit's personal magnetism.He doesn't have any - though the Chinese granny element would probably disagree.
The Dems' best hope was Alongkorn - but he just got the bum's rush.
Where I fully agree with you is on the PTP's poor offering of leaders.
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Probably you need to be a little more circumspect about referring to "empty rooms upstairs" when the context clearly indicates she will relinquish her party leadership position if PTP loses the election.Caretaker Prime Ministers Yingluck Shinawatra reiterated she will step down only if her party loses in the February 2 general election.
So if PTP loses the elections, she agrees not to be prime minister. If that isn't a generous offer
Clear again from that statement that Yingluck has some empty rooms upstairs .
Speaking of being circumspect about other people having empty rooms upstairs, she isn't the party leader.
Jarupong Ruangsuwan is.
Perhaps her context isn't as clear as some might have thought it was.
I didn't say she was and in fact my words were carefully chosen to convey she was among the leaders not the top one.
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Caretaker Prime Ministers Yingluck Shinawatra reiterated she will step down only if her party loses in the February 2 general election.
So if PTP loses the elections, she agrees not to be prime minister. If that isn't a generous offer
Clear again from that statement that Yingluck has some empty rooms upstairs .
Probably you need to be a little more circumspect about referring to "empty rooms upstairs" when the context clearly indicates she will relinquish her party leadership position if PTP loses the election.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app
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Not too much in the speech really but put that together with his thugs blowing whistle at the boy whilst at school and it becomes something very different. Suthep clearly has no rules limitations or boundaries regarding his behaviour and the fact they he thinks children are legitimate "targets" for the pusuit of his dreams is appalling. This maniac wants to rule the country? Sociopathic behaviour from an intended leader seems wrong, I wonder how those dross bags blowing the whistles at t'pipe' would feel if a 100 adults did the same to their own kids? They'd be screaming blue murder, that's how they'd feel. Lunatics running the assylum?
It as been proved a LIE!!! Nobody whistle at her son at the school! The headmaster of the school made a written declaration! Only Yingluck propaganda!!!
Copy of the letter from the Headmaster:
Dear Parents,
In the past 24 hours there have been rumours circulating about politically motivated attempted security breaches at School. These rumours are untrue.
None the less, today we have reviewed security at School and will ensure that all staff are vigilant in order to ensure the children's safety.
I request that all parents support the School by ensuring that no politics are brought on Campus. Our School is a place for children to enjoy learning.
Thank you.
Michael Farley, Headmaster
You are mistaken and in any case the letter is about security not the harrassing of Yingluck's son.
I am very familiar with the position at Harrow with a friend on the governing body and with several friends as parents.There was no breach of security as the Headmaster's circular makers clear.However there was some whistling by a very small minority of parents at Yingluck's child.The Headmaster has made it clear this vulgar and unpleasant behaviour is unacceptable.This is not a particularly important issue particularly since a very small number of foolish parents were involved.
But please do not accuse people of lying or suggest Yingluck propaganda when you are unfamilar with the facts.
OK, so maybe a few parent whistled to her son... but why blaming K. Suthep for it?!!!
No reasonable person would, and you are probably right that some government supporters have made more of this incident than necessary.
Nevertheless the language used on all sides needs to be carefully watched.What's going on in Thailand is a political dispute (and one very similar to experiences in many other countries) but there's no need for either side to dehumanise their opponents.Both sides have been guilty of this.
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EC asks Thai govt to postpone Feb 2 election
in Thailand News
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I never said all judges - even politicised decisions often have split votes.
But the deployment of the courts by the old establishment (especially after the failure of the military coup, general election routes) is not in doubt.
http://www.asiasentinel.com/politics/thailand-judiciary-politicized/