jayboy

If "totally different" is inaccurate, "inextricably linked" is even more so when describing two political groups which happened to share a political goal at one time. Despite your clutching at straws of evidence, there is ample evidence that they have quite different views on many subjects, and have acted contrary to the other's interest. Of course that makes it harder to put them in the same little labelled boxes.

BTW As I recall, there was evidence given at the time that Police Lt Col Methee Chatmontri was transporting a box of ping-pong bombs which exploded, killing him. AFAIK there is no evidence of anyone other than him killed by explosive devices or rounds set/fired by the PAD.

Oh, that's all right then no one but himself was blown up by his car bomb full of ping pong balls that did hardly any damage to the car

It was only a lickle ping pong ball bomb, honest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LyCxx05xpMA

The above jpeg and video can also be viewed on the amusingly named (mysterious?!!)

http://pad.vfly.net/en/437/mysterious-jeep-cherokee-bombing-october-7-youtube/

Don't you think it just a tad curious that Abhisit would attend the funeral of a PAD Bomber?

My statement said a box of ping-pong bombs, and the picture you supplied indicates there was not a great deal of explosives involved. My point was that other than this there is no evidence that PAD were planting bombs, or that he was "transporting a bomb to the offices of Chart Thai" which was later extended to him being a "terrorist bomber" by the same writer.

Oh what a tangled web we weave

When first we practise to deceive.

Predictable - making assumptions about Sting or Bono who have not pronounced on the red shirts or anything to do with 2010. Sunday, Bloody Sunday was about a massacre something far closer to Kru Se or even Tak Bai,.

Yeah, on the basis of their long record of commenting on human rights abuse, Sting and Bono are going to come out for the army snipers rather than the civilians they murdered.

Why are the usual suspects so thick these days?

Why can't you post without ending up with personal abuse?

If you have personal knowledge of Sting & Bono's views on 2010 - post it or stop putting thoughts & opinions into other people's heads & mouths.

BTW - repeating the old lie about army 'snipers' just about destroys any credibility of your posts.

You simply confirm my assessment I'm afraid.

I doubt whether the likes of Sting and Bono have any great knowledge of the events in Bangkok in 2010.The point, and it's frankly one that even the dimmest bulb should be able to grasp, is that based on past political positions they have taken - when they have studied the situation - they are going to identify with the civilians murdered rather than the politicians/general who were responsible.

Take your absurd denial of the existence of army snipers with the courts.It's not me you need to convince.

This story proves what a theatre this government is putting up, having to cast actresses for their platform, who's next, Justin Bieber???

If they would get Bono or Sting, they could better move to the moon, because they would tell them the truth.

So laughable.Do you think for a moment Sting or Bono's sympathies (Sunday Bloody Sunday) would not be on the side of the redshirts murdered by the army in 2010 ? Would they change their minds after that persuasive charmer Kasit "explained" the redshirt demonstrators murdered themselves?

Scondly luvvie though she is Emma Thompson has a greater intellect and perception than either of those two gents.

Predictable - making assumptions about Sting or Bono who have not pronounced on the red shirts or anything to do with 2010. Sunday, Bloody Sunday was about a massacre something far closer to Kru Se or even Tak Bai,.

Yeah, on the basis of their long record of commenting on human rights abuse, Sting and Bono are going to come out for the army snipers rather than the civilians they murdered.

Why are the usual suspects so thick these days?

Those who can't make it include Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono; former US secretary of state Hillary Clinton; ex-United Nations secretary-general Kofi Annan; Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the winner of the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize; Jose Ramos-Horta, the former president and prime minister of East Timor and the current special representative to the secretary-general of the United Nations in Guinea-Bissau; and UN Peace Envoy to Syria Lakhdar Brahimi.

An impressive list of those who can't (would rather not?) make it.

With the attendance of that fine actress Emma Thompson and had her ex Mr Kenneth Branagh been available, we might have had a rerun of Much Ado About Nothing.

What we need at this forum is a lot of Sense and Sensibility and a lot less Pride and Prejudice.

A lot is forgiven for those final two sentences.

This story proves what a theatre this government is putting up, having to cast actresses for their platform, who's next, Justin Bieber???

If they would get Bono or Sting, they could better move to the moon, because they would tell them the truth.

So laughable.Do you think for a moment Sting or Bono's sympathies (Sunday Bloody Sunday) would not be on the side of the redshirts murdered by the army in 2010 ? Would they change their minds after that persuasive charmer Kasit "explained" the redshirt demonstrators murdered themselves?

Scondly luvvie though she is Emma Thompson has a greater intellect and perception than either of those two gents.

Dear Democrat party,

.... you have illegally taken over Suvarnabumi airport a couple of years ago, and the affected parties haven't gotten their rightful compensation paid yet. So how dare you speak about Human rights,

<snip for brevity>

At the risk of being boring, that was five years ago (not "a couple"), and it was the PAD (not the Democrat Party), so actually someone totally different.

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

If you are trying to keep the facts straight it's probably best not to suggest the PAD and the Democrat Party were "totally different".They were not, indeed were inextricably linked in terms of objectives and policy.After the PAD seized the prime ministers office they were visited by both Korn and Abhisit.Korn wrote that the demonstrators were "pure in their beliefs" and called their actions "the seeds of true democracy". Abhisit's foreign minister, Kasit, spoke on the PAD stage after the seizure of Suvarnabhumi Airport where he said the economic damage from the airport closure was "Thaksin's and the government's fault".Both Anand Panyarachun and Abhisit attended the funeral of a PAD terrorist Police Lt Col Methee Chatmontri who had blown himself up transporting a bomb to the offices of Chat Thai.After the Democrat Party gained power it began to distance itself from the PAD.The links are beginning to strengthen again now with the Democrat Party increasingly dependent on street activity given there is little chance the Thai people will elect them to power.

If "totally different" is inaccurate, "inextricably linked" is even more so when describing two political groups which happened to share a political goal at one time. Despite your clutching at straws of evidence, there is ample evidence that they have quite different views on many subjects, and have acted contrary to the other's interest. Of course that makes it harder to put them in the same little labelled boxes.

BTW As I recall, there was evidence given at the time that Police Lt Col Methee Chatmontri was transporting a box of ping-pong bombs which exploded, killing him. AFAIK there is no evidence of anyone other than him killed by explosive devices or rounds set/fired by the PAD.

Sometimes it's hard when the usual suspects are so stunningly dense.My post made it crystal clear the reference to the PAD/Democrat Party nexus was in the past tense and the relationship evolved for the worse, particularly once the Democrats achieved power.Actually I would also acknowledge at the outset there were many decent citzens that joined up with PAD for the best of motives including a revulsion at Thaksin's meglomania.The PAD leadership was however almost from the beginning a scummy and hypocritical set of individuals - fascist, racist and corrupt in some cases.Reverting to the now poor PAD/Democrat Partry relationship I have now doubt they will hook up again if it suits Abhisit's purposes given as noted earlier there is no hope of the Democrats ever winning an election under his tainted leadership.

P.S Interesting to see Chris Baker's review of Abhisit's revisionist version of the 2010 events in the other paper today.I commend it.

P.P.S I have no details of how PAD terrorist bomb makers blew themselves up, nor is it particularly relevant - though one is thankful they made mince of themselves (to borrow Billy Connolly's expression) rather trhan innocent people.

Dear Democrat party,

.... you have illegally taken over Suvarnabumi airport a couple of years ago, and the affected parties haven't gotten their rightful compensation paid yet. So how dare you speak about Human rights,

<snip for brevity>

At the risk of being boring, that was five years ago (not "a couple"), and it was the PAD (not the Democrat Party), so actually someone totally different.

Just trying to keep the facts straight.

If you are trying to keep the facts straight it's probably best not to suggest the PAD and the Democrat Party were "totally different".They were not, indeed were inextricably linked in terms of objectives and policy.After the PAD seized the prime ministers office they were visited by both Korn and Abhisit.Korn wrote that the demonstrators were "pure in their beliefs" and called their actions "the seeds of true democracy". Abhisit's foreign minister, Kasit, spoke on the PAD stage after the seizure of Suvarnabhumi Airport where he said the economic damage from the airport closure was "Thaksin's and the government's fault".Both Anand Panyarachun and Abhisit attended the funeral of a PAD terrorist Police Lt Col Methee Chatmontri who had blown himself up transporting a bomb to the offices of Chat Thai.After the Democrat Party gained power it began to distance itself from the PAD.The links are beginning to strengthen again now with the Democrat Party increasingly dependent on street activity given there is little chance the Thai people will elect them to power.

How extraordinary. Abhisit had a Foreign Minister before he was PM?

If you had reflected for a few seconds before posting it's possible though not certain you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself.Read it again and reflect.

I guess the question is: &lt;deleted&gt; does she know about Thailand? You gotta live here to be remotely knowledgeable about local issues.

Actually that's not the question.The question is whether she has anything to contribute that makes her presence worthwhile.

The fact she doesn't live here is irrelevant.Bill Clinton and George Mitchell didn't live in Ireland yet contributed enormously to the settlement in Ulster.

Indeed the fact they didn't live there and had no local associations or loyalties was helpful to their efforts.

As to Thailand there are hundreds of thousands foreign retired or current downmarket sexpats milling around with their Thai "families", some of whom have been here for years.I'm not convinvced their views are likely to be of much intererest or even coherent.

As to Emma Thompson I have to say the rule of thumb applies that luvvies views on matters outside their profession are invaraiably fatuous.She is a fine actress (made me blub in her performance in the little seen, "Wit", dam her).

Tony Blair is a different matter.Can't bear him myself but I can see that he might have something to contribute.

And Jayboy comparing Egypt and Thailand is chalk and cheese. In Egypt you are seeing a government / Army combination out of control. See the hundreds possibly by now thousand(?) being gunned down. It is idiotic to compare the two considering from both sides in the Thaksin led terrorist attack on Bangkok the indiscriminate numbers guilty to both side, and here I compare the 6 that are probable black marks against the Army in the final assault on the temple vs the General and his men who died in the Thaksin paid for assault which then set the tone of response which was measured compared to what is occurring in Egypt.

I do agree however that the Thaksin led attempted 2010 coup against the legitimate government of the time, no matter how much the Reds eyes can't accept that, was criminal and in fact Thaksin has more to answer than that in it is best described as terrorist.

You not only miss the point but don't seem to understand the issue.Of course the circumstances are quite different in Thailand and Egypt (notably the scale of violence) but there are enough similarities to make the comparison not only worth while but extremely interesting.It is by making this analysis, as for example in Ian Buruma's piece posted earlier, that one understands what is the same and what is different.

Incidentally many the defenders of the slaughter by the army in Egypt are making much the same kind of dishonest defence of the arm's brutality as we have heard in Thailand, on this forum and elsewhere.A cut and paste job of the usual suspects exculpation of the army's savagery could be applied in both countries indistinguishably

jayboy: This crude semi-literate post attracts support from the usual reactionaries.No surprise there but there is a problem in the logic they follow.The foreign minister is speaking no more than the plain and simple truth, and I note he does not attribute blame to any one side.Violence is not the answer to resolving political problems.

Also incredibly throughout this thread there is no mention of the criminal military coup which in Thailand as in Egypt made a difficult situation ten times worse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

to jayboy: It may be a blunt post, but I do not find it semi-literate. It expresses an opinion in colorful, passionate language that most of us have used at one time or another. Your main point is that its logic is flawed. Why not stick with that?

Fair enough and point taken.One has to deal with so much ignorance and prejudice that occasionally one forgets one's manners.But you are right to rebuke me.

On the topic subject matter here's an interesting article by the excellent Ian Buruma contrasting the situation in Egypt and Thailand.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/give-democracy-a-chance-in-egypt/article13724965/

Why would the Democrat spokewoman posted a " doctored " photo...

I suspect Malika thought she was just having a bit of fun, an ex journalist with the tongue of a street vendor, I think she thought, like most Thais, calling some raed, rhino, in Thai is not that serious, only meaning a flirt, and in the context of tiger, lion and bull on the photo.

In my view Tarit has seriously overreacted, wasting public money on a nonsense issue.

However if Yingluck intends to stay in politics she needs to develop a thicker skin, like a rhino in fact!

I agree it's not a serious issue and also that Tarit overreacted.Nobody should be pursued not least because in a free society mocking politicians isn't a crime.However where I differ slightly from you is to dispute whether this was simply just a bit of fun.It seems to me that there was also an element of malice and above all a total lack of class.Having said that it isn't really a big deal and too many words have already been spent on this silly season story.

I really cannot believe the nerve and thick skin on these people. Fix the sh@t in your own backyard and get your own house in order before you lecture other people. Bloody shameless, self serving animals.

This crude semi-literate post attracts support from the usual reactionaries.No surprise there but there is a problem in the logic they follow.The foreign minister is speaking no more than the plain and simple truth, and I note he does not attribute blame to any one side.Violence is not the answer to resolving political problems.

Also incredibly throughout this thread there is no mention of the criminal military coup which in Thailand as in Egypt made a difficult situation ten times worse.

Wrong."Slut" is too strong agreed, but it can mean something like eagerly flirtatious.It's usually mentioned in fun or in a self mocking way.

This is one of those Thai stories that to use a cliche is Kafkaesque.Nobody comes off well whether it Yingluck, Tarit or the Democratic spokeswoman - though the latter is particularly contemptible in my view for her sheer vulgarity and bad manners.

After the US president's visit, doesn't your description seem accurate? But how do we get from 'fun or in a self mocking way' to 'particularly contemptible in my view for her sheer vulgarity and bad manners'?

Because there is a huge difference between ribbing among friends and making a malicious posting on Facebook.It's a question of class - which some will immediately understand and some never will,

Yes, we colonials are much less class conscious. Do you still tug the forelock?

Even on the simplest issues you manage to miss the point.

The reference was not to social class distinction (though you are kidding yourself if you believe it doesn't exist in Australia) but the natural class that may equally be seen in a poor farmer as a peer of the realm.

Why is Thailand going bankrupt, where did the money go???? Look at where our Prime Minister travels, and you know the answer...

On what basis do you make the statement Thailand is going bankrupt?

Apparently, you think it is funny to make a false and misleading statement like that. I do not. Get back to me once you have read the Thai national budget and national "balance sheet". I hope you have the ability to read a financial statement and to understand "big numbers".

Thailand is approximately 50% of GDP in debt and growing.

Expenditure is greater than income and growing.

Imports now exceed exports and growing.

Given the above, a 2.2 trillion loan over 50 years and a wavering Moody's rating which would vastly increase interest payments I'd say he was about right.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Moody's adjustment in Thailand's rating was essentially a technical one applying a changed methodology in assessing local currency risk.

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-adjusts-country-ceilings-for-Thailand-Oman-and-Mongolia--PR_277902

Money quote:

"The adjusted local currency ceilings are consistent with the methodological framework which positions the ceiling against Thailand's Sovereign Bond rating of Baa1 and Sovereign Bond Methodology factor scores, three of which are the key drivers of the ceiling. In Thailand's case, these consist of a 'moderate' assessment of Economic Strength, a 'moderate' assessment of Institutional Strength and a 'low shaded to moderate' assessment of susceptibility to political, economic or institutional event risks.

The adjustment in the short-term FC bond ceiling stems from Moody's assessment of low transfer and convertibility risks given the country's ability and willingness to service both its public and private cross-border debt obligations. This view is supported by Thailand's healthy external liquidity position, characterized by low external debt and ample foreign exchange reserves."

The overall Moody's conclusion on Thailand was therefore very positive as the release above demonstrates.Needless to say it was ignored/censored in the political coverage by the English language press (The Nation and Bangkok Post) though it was mentioned in the business pages.There is I suppose an excuse for the usual suspects on the forum who don't really understand the issues and lack the capacity to be analytical.I'm not sure there's an excuse for the English language press (that is the reactionary editorial side not the occasional guest columnist who talks good sense)

That is 220 k USD PER MONTH.

Please, how many people does she take with her. This really is taking the p**s.

I can;'t believe that the CEO of GE, or Microsoft costs a remotely similar figure.

Not a valid comparison.The comparison is with the Prime Ministers/Presidents of economically similar sized countries in the region - say Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia.By that correct comparison the budget looks very reasonable particularly as Khun Yingluck has significantly improved Thailand's overseas image after the incompetence and stupidity of the Abhisit/Kasit regime's efforts overseas.

In Thai idiom, the phrase ‘Tiger, Lion, Guar, …’ is followed by the word rhino. When placed together, the 4 words refer to a slutty woman (rhino also hold the same meaning as a standalone word).

Rhino (raeet) is not used as "slut", AFAIK, a "rhino" is an annoying, pretentious person. I can't thing many things more pretentious than pretending to be the PM of a country, so there's that.

Wrong."Slut" is too strong agreed, but it can mean something like eagerly flirtatious.It's usually mentioned in fun or in a self mocking way.

This is one of those Thai stories that to use a cliche is Kafkaesque.Nobody comes off well whether it Yingluck, Tarit or the Democratic spokeswoman - though the latter is particularly contemptible in my view for her sheer vulgarity and bad manners.

i have always understood the term to mean 'horny' as in aroused, but not exactly polite usage.

Yes there is an element of that but it's normally in jocular context between friends.

Wrong."Slut" is too strong agreed, but it can mean something like eagerly flirtatious.It's usually mentioned in fun or in a self mocking way.

This is one of those Thai stories that to use a cliche is Kafkaesque.Nobody comes off well whether it Yingluck, Tarit or the Democratic spokeswoman - though the latter is particularly contemptible in my view for her sheer vulgarity and bad manners.

After the US president's visit, doesn't your description seem accurate? But how do we get from 'fun or in a self mocking way' to 'particularly contemptible in my view for her sheer vulgarity and bad manners'?

Because there is a huge difference between ribbing among friends and making a malicious posting on Facebook.It's a question of class - which some will immediately understand and some never will,

In Thai idiom, the phrase ‘Tiger, Lion, Guar, …’ is followed by the word rhino. When placed together, the 4 words refer to a slutty woman (rhino also hold the same meaning as a standalone word).

Rhino (raeet) is not used as "slut", AFAIK, a "rhino" is an annoying, pretentious person. I can't thing many things more pretentious than pretending to be the PM of a country, so there's that.

Wrong."Slut" is too strong agreed, but it can mean something like eagerly flirtatious.It's usually mentioned in fun or in a self mocking way.

This is one of those Thai stories that to use a cliche is Kafkaesque.Nobody comes off well whether it Yingluck, Tarit or the Democratic spokeswoman - though the latter is particularly contemptible in my view for her sheer vulgarity and bad manners.

It was the students that caused the fall of the corrupt government dictator in 1973, Can they do it again? This is the student revolt than PM Samak said only one person dies, but hundreds are still missing.

Er, with one slight caveat.In 1973 the students were on the side of the Thai people not the fascists.The so called Peoples Army is the direct fascist descendant of the elite financed and supported villaged scouts and red gaurs

Why do I doubt that the UDD has similar reforms in mind as posters on this forum?

Because they represent a large proportion of the Thai people rather than a few embittered not very well educated foreign reactionaries with too much time on their hands?

You forgot the proto-fascists.

Would that proportion of the Thai populace that they represent be those they lied to about the legitimacy of the previous government, encouraged to carry out criminal acts on the basis of those lies, and then labelled that government as murderers for suppressing that insurrection? Just how legitimate is a government who used lies as a basis for much of their election campaign? And then paid off their criminal propagandists with MP positions, and a promise of amnesty, which k. Nattawhut is so desperately seeking before he is jailed for a looong period.

Er no, the protofascists are the street mob extremists (Dr Tui etc) supporting the old order - nothing to do with the UDD or forum members.

Your other sentence is just an incoherent rant, so no need to respond.

Why do I doubt that the UDD has similar reforms in mind as posters on this forum?

Because they represent a large proportion of the Thai people rather than a few embittered not very well educated foreign reactionaries with too much time on their hands?

There is nobody clever enough in this country to monitor a website.

You'd be surprised at what they "can" do here in terms of monitoring/surveillance. It's not as backwards as you imply.

Agreed.Abhisit's government set up the cyber scouts to spy on citzens for sedition so the infrastructure is in place.

Still the OP has a point.I don't know any Thai student who isn't able to bypass MICT controls.

Tony Blair to advise on reconcillation and reform? Like asking Dracula how to improve blood donating.

Actually I would have thought Tony Blair could make a slight but useful contribution in private discussions rather than in a public forum.But there are two problems.Firstly the achievement in Northern Ireland has been oversold since it more or less ignored the middle ground and effectively handed power to extremists.Thus its long term soundness remains unsure.Secondly, Tony Blair is as near mad as makes no difference.Mathew Parris the maverick but highly perceptive ex-Tory MP saw this problem before most of us, as far back as 1994.Amusingly quite recently when Parris was asked about the difference between Blair and Gordon Brown he said in the case of Tony Blair madness was a metaphor.In the case of Gordon Brown it was a diagnosis.

The big problems of the rich and famous.

If it has been me as Oprah I would have gotten all New Yorker on that snob and said: Look, B-word, show me that bag now or you won't know what hit you.

Which would simply have confirmed the store assistant's prejudices.