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jayboy

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Posts posted by jayboy

  1. No direct responsibility?

    No, not for the incidents themselves.These were were the work of the Thai military who were subsequently absolved of all responsibility in the time honoured way these generals shrug off responsibility for crimes.Of course Thaksin as PM had indirect responsibility and a more honourable man would have sought out those senior army officers responsible or even resigned himself.But Thai politicians tend not to be honourable men, and Thaksin is no exception to that rule.

  2. You think that the judicial system has been bent against Thaksin, yet you dismiss the idea of it being bent against Abhisit as a ridiculously implausible joke. In the scheme of things, doesn't sound at all far-fetched to me.

    You have much to learn about the way power and barami works in Thailand.No well informed Thai I know believes for a second Abhisit/Suthep will serve any time at all.They know it too hence the display of pointless bravado.

    Where on earth did you get the idea I think the judicial system is any fairer now than under the last government? It's true however the Constitutional Court is very much the too of its masters.

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  3. BTW the Economist article on k. Thaksin getting a bit desperate seems to have caught the attention of Robert A. and the PPT. Robert A. phrases it as 'PPT Rips the Economist for its Myopic Coverage of Thailand'. Just check out on http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/

    wink.png

    Interesting how for years the usual suspects insisted the Economist was not to be trusted, indeed ( no kidding) was in the pay of Thaksin.Now that the Economist has published a piece that the usual suspects find favourable,do we hear an apology for their traducement in the past of an internationally respected journal? We do not - just the telling silence of the intellectually dishonest.

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  4. Yes. You are absolutely right.There is a strong streak of unrestrained hatred bordering insanity in the yellow/multicolored/PAD/Pitak Siam camp and the redshirt and ptp camp that is easily seen in the social media. Its a social divide that was created through the corrupt actions of Thaksin. That is exploited and perpetuated by Thaksin for the benefit of Thaksin.

    Yeah right, as though all was calm and peaceful before Thaksin.Use your brain for chrissake.Thaksin didn't create the social divide;he exploited it.

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  5. The Shinawatra clan's key competitive advantage is that it has a massive PR machine designed to evoke blind adoration in more than 50% of Thailand's voters. While this business philosophy has proved highly lucrative to date, an important side effect is that that the PR machine produces aberrational results in something under 50% of the electorate who experience extreme side effect reactions to the constant PR bombardment and end up loathing the Shinawatras. So far the PR programming has been unsuccessful in achieving any form of middle ground and all those who have been subjected to the Shinawatra mental sanitation programme experience only extreme emotions of love or hatred. The Pheua Thai technical team is working on an ultimate solution to this problem which may include constitutional adjustments and kevlar face masks for clan members for use while travelling on foreign airlines.

    For an experienced foreign resident you are still remarkably blinkered.What do you think politics is about if not public relations.The idea is to get as many possible to vote for you, geddit? Switch some words around and you could equally be talking about embittered Romney supporters after the victory of Obama - all those people sponging off the state and our taxes and similar dreary refrains.And on a point of detail as far as I can see most of the nastiest hatred in Thai society seems to be coming from one side - exemplified by the moronic woman who is the subject of this thread.

  6. If the anti government groups get behind this girl, not only do they make themselves look completely absurd,

    Then it'll be business as usual, won't it.

    something very stupid and sad could easily happen.

    If by that you mean every well-turned out little rich kid is going to be at risk of having a cafe au lait poured on his head....dream on. It's not going to happen.

    I'm going to guess that you don't read any of the Thai language forums/Facebook groups. Perhaps you didn't see the photo which was doing the rounds of the policeman who died in the car crash coming back from the Pitak Siam rally. One I saw had a caption which amounted to 'Karma's a bitch'. I saw it an hour or two after it had started floating around on the yellow-hued hate pages. It had over a 1000 likes and several hundred comments along the lines of 'Go to hell you Thaksin-loving bastard'. These people are absolutely insane - they don't care about what the stewardess did. All they care about is that she's yellow and she, in their eyes, suffered at Thaksin's hands.

    You are absolutely right.There is a strong streak of unrestrained hatred bordering insanity in the yellow/multicolored/PAD/Pitak Siam camp and it is easily seen in the social media.The mentality is very much the same as I recall from the 1970's especially 1976.It's pretty much a middle class phenonomen.They are being played by other interests of course.

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  7. I hope she gets a great job soon. Her heart was in the right place ,thinking about throwing a coffee at a member of this horrible family,just a pity that she talked about it.

    Good to know you have a sound set of moral values.Pity she didn't have a baby or small child with her so your heroine couldn't assault them - the spawn of a horrible family.

  8. But I am sure a lot of companies will happily give her a good job.....people who actively fight corruption are liked by many companies....

    A truly bizarre comment.I have no doubt that she will find employment but any decent company would avoid taking on this profoundly stupid person.However let that pass.The ridiculous part of h90's post is the thought that by emptying coffee over Thaksin's daughter this might somehow be interpreted as a blow against corruption.Thai at Heart has brilliantly skewered this preposterous notion.In any case I'm not convinced that PAD loving middle class (often Sino-Thai) airheads are particularly shocked by corruption anyway.What they really loathe is that their comfortable status quo was unsettled by Thaksin, one of their own really.I'm not really sure that they are right about that anyway.Thaksin is a wily fellow but at heart deeply conservative and committed to the old ways.No, what this silly cow and her kind really hate Thaksin for is suggesting that the Thai majority might enjoy some rights equal to the pampered urban population, and should be respected not patronised and ignored.

    Pass the Thaksin brown-nose sick bag Alice. A contribution deserving double-strength expressos from the whole crew.

    Glad you enjoyed it.

    However if you read it carefully you might note I'm really just making an observation on the silly Thai urban middle class, of which admittedly this foolish girl is a particularly half witted specimen.Relax.They have nothing to lose except their "aitches" (or whatever the birdbrain Sino Thai equivalent is) as Orwell advised the British middle class in the face of a rising working class.Actually the British upper middle class remained firmly in charge which would have surprised Orwell.But then the British upper middle class was and is quite smart unlike the retards.....well, you get my drift.

  9. But I am sure a lot of companies will happily give her a good job.....people who actively fight corruption are liked by many companies....

    A truly bizarre comment.I have no doubt that she will find employment but any decent company would avoid taking on this profoundly stupid person.However let that pass.The ridiculous part of h90's post is the thought that by emptying coffee over Thaksin's daughter this might somehow be interpreted as a blow against corruption.Thai at Heart has brilliantly skewered this preposterous notion.In any case I'm not convinced that PAD loving middle class (often Sino-Thai) airheads are particularly shocked by corruption anyway.What they really loathe is that their comfortable status quo was unsettled by Thaksin, one of their own really.I'm not really sure that they are right about that anyway.Thaksin is a wily fellow but at heart deeply conservative and committed to the old ways.No, what this silly cow and her kind really hate Thaksin for is suggesting that the Thai majority might enjoy some rights equal to the pampered urban population, and should be respected not patronised and ignored.

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  10. Can't we draw a distinction between violent acts and suppressed urges to commit them?

    Perhaps the lesson is that living in luxury on stolen wealth has its drawbacks.

    No, and in any case you have missed the point.The problem was not the thought but posting her deranged views on Facebook.Cathay Pacific have no choice but to fire the stupid girl.

    Actually the main problem for her is a legal point,. She published a copy of the passenger manifest which for a number of reasons is clearly illegal and the airline can be sued for that.

    Point taken.Hopefully she will face criminal charges as well as dismissal.

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  11. Exceptionalism as a basic condition of your life :

    ie believing that you and your countrymen are better than all others,

    and no matter what you do it is better than all others ;

    is to most rational minds the root of most national troubles,

    and that of a nations neighbors, no matter what nation.

    That you are willing to 'guess' about Americans seems to

    indicate your superficial knowledge about them.

    If superficial knowledge means study of American history at an elite university,so be it.From your poor English it's not clear what your nationality is but your definition of exceptionalism is wrong.The key point is that it does not suggest that one's country is 'better' just that it is qualitatively different.Your mistake is I agree one often made by the unlettered but for the better educated the best understanding of American exceptionalism can be found in the works of a foreigner,de Toqueville.There is some substance to the American claim but not to Thai claims to be original or unique in a significant way.

  12. Amazingly this is the 100th post!

    Sorry if it's been said, I dont have time to read the previous 99 comments, bit here's my 2 cents:

    She won't save face until the perpetrator of these comments has been sacked.

    Probably jealous of her brothers recent activity in the spotlight, the Shin gene kickin in.

    Shame this person didn't actually spill the coffee, she could have made it look like an accident.

    Finally, can't believe we're talking about this (I'm as guilty as the rest of you).

    If the flight attendant posted her deranged and unpleasant thoughts on Facebook she will be sacked by Cathay Pacific if the internal inquiry finds her guilty.It's nothing to do with Thaksin's daughter's view.

  13. We've been around for about the same time. I came first as a student with my dad then I stayed as a young men and now a middle aged middle manager. So we will agree that the area changed a lot during the past 20 years.

    But the big difference is while I was growing up, you were getting old. You want things to remain the same, I want things to move with their (my) time. Abhisit defends Thainess and a mythical Thailand than only exists in the mind of the old elite, the "good old time". Thaksin brings change. Abhisit fight for isolation, a Thailand out of time, a "magical kingdom". Thaksin engages with reality, with our neighbors, Cambodia, Burma, Singapore, to build the South East Asia of tomorrow.

    I understand your point of view. As I said before I like to talk with old people because there is a lot to learn from them. But I also think that what happened in the past should stay in the past and it's time for you to enjoy your retirement.

    Can you show me some examples of Abhisit defending Thainess or fighting isolation? I think you're talking BS.

    Bet I am older than you and want things to progress.There are those who stand pat and will till the day they die,

    and others will always learn and develop till the day they die. Just because the old are less mobile or have determined over time that they DO like somethings a lot more than other things, that does NOT mean they are stuck in time and only listen to what they want to hear.

    You are an ageist, and that means your youth and attitude apparently blinds you to what happens for real with those older than you.

    As to Abihisit defending Thai culture. All politicians MUST, it's part of the schooled in 'exceptionalism of Thai-ness' that all Thais have been told endlessly that they possess. Of course he does push that, at the same time he CLEARLY advocated and installed programs to increase Thai culture, Thai's educational standards, and it's relevance in the world. Many have fought him tooth and tong for trying. Or simply because their group didn't profit in the deals.

    I'm not clear whether you believe in Thai exceptionalism or not.I don't for a moment.I don't believe in American exceptionalism either although I guess most Americans do.It's a less absurd proposition given America's distinctive history and unique contribution to mankind - the right to liberty, property and pursuit of happiness but as for Thailand it makes no sense at all.If you mean Thailand should be proud of its culture and take measures to defend it as well as teaching young people about it, I fully agree with you.But that is an entirely different matter from "exceptionalism'.

  14. it is a circle.....a vote buying corrupt government won't make laws against corruption and vote buying.

    Without separation of power they won't get in troubles anyway.

    Have a look to the East Europe Communist countries or to North Korea.....East Europe Communist parties didn't fall on the ballot boxes.

    Maybe in North Korea they will vote out Kim, in the next 20-100 votes....we only need to wait.

    Stupid comparison.In neither Eastern Europe under communism nor North Korea have there been free elections so your examples are meaningless.You seem to be saying that in Thailand vote buying nullifies elections? If so show hard evidence since no reputable source agrees with you - including the Democrat opposition, international observers, political analysts etc.If you are not saying this then stop alluding to it as a major consideration.In practice of course the unelected elites prefer the majority to be uneducated and ignorant as it leaves them in total command, particularly when taken in context of Thailand's deferential culture.That's why they loathe Thaksin because one of their own (well almost) pulled the plug on the status quo.

    In both North Korea and in Eastern Europe were elections and these governments consider them as free elections....

    Yes massive vote buying nullifies elections, or say it different, with vote buying elections aren't democratic.

    If you tell me there wasn't full scale vote buying than you either lie or you never have been in Thailand during elections....It is known common knowledge, not even hiding. I agree that most governments did nothing to get the people more educated. I only saw the Surayud government trying to establish high value educational TV and Abhisit tried to improve it. I didn't see much from your hero Thaksin to improve the education and he was a long time in power.

    Thailand as it is now would need a complete revolution in their educational system, which is not easy even if someone would try to do it.

    Edit: Add: Thaksin told several times that he prefers a 1 party system....that is exactly what Eastern Europe had....North Korea has two parties (at least theoretically)

    More foolishness.Of course the governments of North Korea etc boasted about "free" elections, but they were no more fair than these dictatorships were peoples "democracies" - as they liked to label themselves.In contrast the elections in Thailand were free and fair and have been recognised as such by international bodies and the world generally.Aren't you ashamed of your suggestions that Thailand is just another dictatorship? You people cast around for reasons to imply Yingluck's government isn't legitimate.If not silliness about vote buying it's that most Thais didn't vote for her - ignoring the rules of parliamentary democracy.It's akin to those whackjobs who insist Obama isn't legitimate because Romney got 47% of the popular vote.

    As to the specifics of vote buying in Thailand this - for the umpteenth time - is a practice which needs to be stamped out - but did not change the overall result.If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise let's hear it.

    Finally there is no evidence the well educated make political decisions in voting that are less selfish than anyone else

  15. Actually, the best way to achieve this goal is to have a highly educated electorate. When people do not have the ability to solve problems intellectually, they resort to violence in order to achieve change. Considering the educational system in Thailand...The writing is on the wall.

    Er, not really.Most of the worlds democracies achieved that position when their populations were at least as poorly educated as that of Thailand - in some cases much less educated.In any event you are confusing education with intelligence, specifically the ability of rural people to perceive which politicians/party are more likely to improve voters material prospects.In Thailand the sections which have more often resorted to violence are the unelected elites, the army and their supporters (eg Red Gaurs in 1976) whether through military coups or repressive violence.

    Hmm well maybe many democracies were formed with an ignorant illiterate electorate. However the thrust of the reply was to secure democracy through the ballot box without resorting to violence. The UK democratic system came about peacefully but at the time people in politics were driven by somewhat more altruistic goals and the country was governed with at least some effort in maintaining it's position in the world. There was honour and public exposure was a severe disincentive to behave dishonorably.

    These days no one gives a hoot and if you are exposed as a corrupt treacherous B&*^%$$d then never mind. This is not restricted to Thailand either - it seems to be a global trend - George Bush's Florida shenanigans come to mind, Peter Mandelsson in the UK and the list is long.

    Shame seems to count for nothing anymore except in Thailand where the shame does not even exist. People in power at all levels are openly corrupt and proud of it. Judges, police, politicians - just everyone and they have no shame for it because society here accepts it.

    So the ill educated remain ill educated and vote buying is the way to get in. I think the first 2/3rds of the OP is spot on. That is exactly what is going on. A military coup is not the way to change it but neither can the rape of Thailand's treasury continue like this. Without education, violence will be the route taken to bring about change - change that is desperately needed because the people in politics today are bereft of honour, dignity, trust or altruism and seek only to further their own personal gains with less than zero respect or thought to the country they are the first to pretend to love so much.

    With an idiotic, shallow thinking electorate and a government that only has ideas on how to steal from Thailand's coffers, there is not much hope of a peaceful democratic long term solution. The elite here are educated - at least to a fashion - and do see what is going on but if 20 million Somchai's and Panida's are going to vote for the next shiny present offered for their vote - a shiny present full of excrement - then the current cess pit of treasonous, corrupt government will continue.

    Yet more profound ignorance.Uneducated or even illiterate does not mean ignorant.In any case Thailand is highly literate throughout and increasingly well educated.

    UK democracy did not come without riots and a great deal of violence principally from the authorities.Those in authority were generally not driven by higher ideals but by an understandable wish to preserve as much as possible of their wealth and power in the face of democratic forces.In this attempt they were remarkably successfull in sharp contrast with the stupidity and boneheaded ness of their Thai equivalents - who show little evidence of enlightened self interest .

    I have no comment on the last part of your post - just a rehash of discredited vote buying nonsense and lies about the present government .

  16. A pity really. "Reporter without Borders" had moved Thailand up in 2011, but incidents like this will push the score down again.

    I find it somewhat amazing to read posters writing about three reporters almost as if 'they asked for it', whereas the two killed in 2010 were obviously victims of the non-elected elite with their figure head who went on (doctored) tape with 'kill me some'.

    I find it somewhat amazing that someone should compare the tragic deaths of reporters by the army in 2010 with the very professional police action last month.Guess he follows his political prejudices rather than examining the facts.

  17. If we ignore that and just focus on the rice scheme, this single policy alone is enough to crash the Thai economy.

    No it's not, and the ignorance you show determines the nature of any response.I have argued elsewhere that the rice subsidy scheme is misguided but a passing knowledge of the numbers' impact on the national balance sheet demonstrates your claim is nonsense.Khun Korn, whom I'm sure, has the facts at his fingertips certainly wouldn't make that claim.You say the PTP machine will crash the Thai economy - sheer silliness on your part I'm afraid, and incidentally ignores the broadly cross party consensus on economic management as well as the excellent quality of senior bureaucrats.Taking another point there is a sound case for wages to be increased in Thailand to encourage the transition to higher value added.There is a case to be made for criticising this government's handling of the economy but the changes needed are at the margin.For you and others to make ridiculous statements about a broadly very healthy economy is unacceptable.If you wish to pursue I suggestt you do so elsewhere and not in a serious forum discussion.

    It's hard to know where to start with this.

    Your history on this board is as someone that baits people serially and we both know that the above is a crass attempt.

    I think though in this case, I know what the issue is. We are talking about 2 different countries. Singapore is it?

    You are mistaken.I pointed out some ridiculous and ignorant statements from you.Do I really need to list them again? Instead of retraction or even explanation you simply attempt to deflect through personalisation.

    Of course Singapore is totally different from Thailand.I was simply making a comment aboutthe need to increase the value added element in the economy and rely less on cheap labour.Thailand has done it in the past diversifying away from agriculture and commodities, and I believe can do it in the future.Calibrated wage level increases will play an important part.In other words cheap labour reliant businesses will either have to change or go out of business.All this is good for the Thai economy.

    What I particularly resent is the way some on the forum are dishonest (and sometimes breathtakingly ignorant) about the Thai economy as a way of making political capital.I posted the Korn clip, who has as much reason to make political capital as anyone, but his honesty, knowledge and intelligence shone through nonetheless.It's not really a political matter as I tried to explain and politicians, bureaucrats and above all businessmen can take credit.It's nothing really about this particular government anyway.

  18. If we ignore that and just focus on the rice scheme, this single policy alone is enough to crash the Thai economy.

    No it's not, and the ignorance you show determines the nature of any response.I have argued elsewhere that the rice subsidy scheme is misguided but a passing knowledge of the numbers' impact on the national balance sheet demonstrates your claim is nonsense.Khun Korn, whom I'm sure, has the facts at his fingertips certainly wouldn't make that claim.You say the PTP machine will crash the Thai economy - sheer silliness on your part I'm afraid, and incidentally ignores the broadly cross party consensus on economic management as well as the excellent quality of senior bureaucrats.Taking another point there is a sound case for wages to be increased in Thailand to encourage the transition to higher value added.There is a case to be made for criticising this government's handling of the economy but the changes needed are at the margin.For you and others to make ridiculous statements about a broadly very healthy economy is unacceptable.If you wish to pursue I suggestt you do so elsewhere and not in a serious forum discussion.

    It's a pity that in writing such one-eyed rubbish you have to resort to calling people who have a different opinion - ignorant.

    All sorts of rice subsidy figures have been bandied about by PTP with their figures on (possibly imaginary) foreign sales questionable, to say the least. You are putting words in Korn's mouth which, if he knew the source, he would have a good laugh.

    The Thai economy was broadly healthy in 1996 & we know what happened. There is so much being spent on subsidies (& the usual associated scams) that the amount is unsustainable based on the amount of revenue the government receives in taxes (some reduced). They will have to curtail the subsidies or the debt will rise over 60%. In fact if it were not for the FIDF manipulation where the debt was transferred from the government to the BOT, government debt would be worse that the current figure of close to 50%.

    There is no sound case for wages to be increased (beyond gradually) until Thais are skilled enough to raise their level of productivity & task difficulty. This is not happening - education is awful & technical schools are in deep trouble for other reasons. You are putting the cart before the horse here (want to borrow an avatar?).

    Well at least you attempt to produce some numbers, but unfortunately they are wrong.The earlier comment was that the rice subsidy scheme will crash the Thai economy.It won't, nor does Korn believe that.(I use him as a touchstone because he is highly intelligent, well informed and politically very hostile to this government).

    Your summary of the Thai economy is wrongheaded.We know the Thai economy was rocked to its foundation in the late 1990's but like most of Asia the country has made a remarkable recovery.The level of government debt needs watching but is easily containable.Clearly on the wage level issue you don't follow current debate.There is a very interesting debate going on with some economists arguing that a significant level of wage increase is just what Thailand now needs.Lee Kwan Yew tried something similar in Singapore some twenty years ago - putting the cart before the horse - and was roundly criticised by some economists for not taking into account skill levels in Singapore at that time.They were wrong then and so I suspect are you now.In case you haven't twigged the point higher wage levels forced Singaporean businesses to push for higher value added.Your low wage recipe does condemn Thailand to stagnation because frankly it can't compete on low labour costs with South Asia and elsewhere in the region.

  19. If we ignore that and just focus on the rice scheme, this single policy alone is enough to crash the Thai economy.

    No it's not, and the ignorance you show determines the nature of any response.I have argued elsewhere that the rice subsidy scheme is misguided but a passing knowledge of the numbers' impact on the national balance sheet demonstrates your claim is nonsense.Khun Korn, whom I'm sure, has the facts at his fingertips certainly wouldn't make that claim.You say the PTP machine will crash the Thai economy - sheer silliness on your part I'm afraid, and incidentally ignores the broadly cross party consensus on economic management as well as the excellent quality of senior bureaucrats.Taking another point there is a sound case for wages to be increased in Thailand to encourage the transition to higher value added.There is a case to be made for criticising this government's handling of the economy but the changes needed are at the margin.For you and others to make ridiculous statements about a broadly very healthy economy is unacceptable.If you wish to pursue I suggestt you do so elsewhere and not in a serious forum discussion.

  20. Good article.

    Whilst many want to intervene right now, I personally think that the PTP machine needs to be left to crash Thailand economy. Sure, it will be painful, heads will roll. At the end of the day, all these coups, judicial or military, just perpetuate the current situation.

    That isn't to say the corrupt shouldn't be named, shamed & imprisoned. Just that you need to let PTP implode on its own.

    What is it about this thread? Another absurd and profoundly stupid post.The Thai economy is not on the verge of crashing but is in contrast doing extremely well.It's fine to criticise this government but the level of ignorance and/or downright dishonesty is unacceptable.Being charitable I suspect part of the problem is sheer ignorance and a lack of comprehension of how the Thai economy is managed.Firstly there is no real difference between the political parties on essentials and secondly there is a very high level of competence and independence with senior officials in the Ministry of Finance and Bank of Thailand.Thirdly there is the remarkable Thai corporate and banking sector which despite global vicissitudes is doing extremely well.In short the Thai economy is in great shape.

    Don't take my word for it.Khun Korn who is the most formidable critic of the current government says virtually the same thing.

    http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2012-11-26/ex-thai-fin-dot-min-on-the-state-of-the-thai-economy#r=lr-fst

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