jayboy
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Posts posted by jayboy
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The question is .. would Korn accept it if offered?
It would be a huge feather in his cap, in the Dem's cap .. and yes in Thailand's cap!
If I may say a rather fatuous post.
Actually that's not the question.The question is why the Thai press has dishonestly misrepresented regional opinion.I'm as big a fan of Korn as anyone but he has no chance at all.Even among the non European candidates he is not mentioned as a serious contender.For those who understand the requirements of the IMF chairmanship - and this thread shows there aren't many on this forum - it's also obvious he doesn't yet have the necessary experience compared with someone like Manuel from South Africa.
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A diversion, and nothing more.
Korn is Democrat party leader in waiting.
As an ex investment banker, I suspect he plays hardball quite well. He'll be a perfect opposition leader (unfortunately I suspect). He's probably the best credentialed person to run Thailand for the next 5 years.
Happy on this occasion to be in full agreement with you.But do I take it from what you say that you think Yingluk will be able to form a government and that Abhisit will give way to Korn as leader of the Dems?
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The editorial pages of both the Japan Times and the South China Morning Post yesterday named Finance Minister Korn Chatikavanij as a possible candidate to replace Dominique Strauss-Kahn as head of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for "his deep understanding of financial markets".
Time to read these opinion articles of the Japan Times and SCMP, right?
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20110519a2.html
In case you cannot find the reference to Korn, because Korn isn't the only one suggested as the next IMF Head in these editorials, his name is shortly mentioned in one of the last paragraphs.
"Asia has two finance ministers with deep understanding of financial markets: Tharman Shanmugaratnam gained his through being managing director of the Monetary Authority of Singapore, and British-born and Winchester and Oxford-educated Korn Chatikavanij of Thailand was previously head of J.P. Morgan in that country."That's all. Still good for a big headline in The Nation.
Interesting, and on checking I see that the articles in the Japan Times and South China Morning Post are identical and written as an independent opinion by an expatriate journalist, not a mainline editorial at all.Yet the Nation has puffed this up to suggest regional opinion is moving behind Korn.Looks rather shoddy journalism to me.
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meagre/ modest, sheer pedantics on your part
I think most reasonable people would agree your assertion that Korn is on meagre wages and the reality that he is a multi millionaire is rather more than pedantics.
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Korn was voted Asian Banker of the Year by his peers
the other candidates included the Singaporean
Korn is a credit to Thailand
he could be earning millions of dollars a year in Singapore but his sticks with Thailand on meagre wages and is constantly under threat and critique from the reds
they have no appreciation of the major financial talent they have at their disposal
if i were him i would tell the ungrateful b***ds to p**s off and leave to less hostile shores post haste........
If you seriously think Korn is on "meagre wages", you have no understanding of his business career background or family history.Of course his salary as FM is modest but he is a multi millionaire , a position which he freely admits allowed him to enter politics in the first place.It's an approach I rather admire, achieve something in life before taking up politics.
You are wrong too to suggest Korn is a particular target for the parliamentary opposition or the redshirts.He is seen as a technocrat and has largely escaped the personal attacks that Abhisit and Suthep have attracted.
Korn posseses the polish and charm which is associated with his patrician upbringing and his Winchester and Oxford education.He has excellent manners recalling the Wykehamist motto "Manners Makyth Man".It seems to me therefore unlikely he would call anyone "ungrateful b***ds" or any similar language that you are no doubt familiar with, not least because most fair minded people across party lines feel he is doing rather a good job.
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The disgraceful abuse of lese majeste laws is highlighted in The Nation, emphasizing the need for root and branch reform.This issue is going mainstream no matter what the military cheerleaders in the country would like.The young people of Thailand take a different view.
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Rapturous throwback?
Got it in one - didn't qualify for the rapture.Had a good laugh at those losers who thought the world was ending today.
But what are those four horsemen doing outside my window?
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We don't usually agree but I sense you are one of the relatively few who know when the tongue is firmly in the cheek.
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excerpts from:
Perjury talk deepens uncertainty over Thai poll
a Supreme Court verdict in February last year in which judges froze $1.4 billion of the Shinawatra family's assets, ruling they were accrued illegally during Thaksin's two terms in office from 2001-2006.
The court said Thaksin had concealed ownership of shares in his family telecommunications conglomerate, Shin Corp , which it later sold, and had tailored government policies to benefit the company.
she could be charged with three cases of perjury over testimony she gave to the Securities Exchange Commission
-- Reuters 2011-05-20
A distinction however needs to be drawn between schoolboy boorishness and the continuing question of Yingluck's financial record.All candidates for high office should have their record scrutinised and therefore if there has been perjury to the SEC - I have no evidence that there has - then this needs to be clarified.Obviously however all candidates for high office need to be scrutinised equally.But it is entirely appropriate for matters of financial probity to be followed up on.
My guess is that the Democrat strategy for dealing with Yingluk will be that already outlined by Abhisit, particularly as she seems to have struck a favourable chord with the Thai public. Namely....she seems a decent sort but she is surrounded by some very unsavoury types.I suspect this would work for the Dems more effectively than direct attacks on the lady herself
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Just let me clue you in Mr.Dan Waites.
This sort of stereo typing is ugly demeaning insulting and completely false.
Yes there are a handful like this but not as many as you would want us to believe in your stupid story.
Most of my friends are ex-military, or retired form a successful career in the petroleum business. And worked here for contractors servicing Union Oil Thailand.
We stayed for various reasons. For one our retirement pay would not go very far in our home countries. Second some of us are sick of the politics, over regulation and ignorant liberalism that allow black men to call a white man honky, a Muslim to call us filthy infidels, a mexican to call us white trash. But let one of us call one a negro, a terrorist or a wetback and we go to JAIL and get fined for discrimination. They can burn our flags but we cant burn theirs, they can burn a bible but we can not burn a koran. Just like the spell check in Microsoft bible can be in lower case but koran must be upper case. Stupid liberal crap
Regulation yea the Department of Energy demands and will fine and jail you if you do not install a toilet that saves water and the dang thing does NOT WORK. And this is in more than one country. You must have a % of mexican negro or others in your business if you employ more that 25 people. And if you run a business of call center help, answering service or the like YOU MUST HAVE SPANISH, or they shutdown your business and fine you.
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Is that for real or irony?
melousee
Not only is he Stereotyping as you say,but it also gives a Talentless blogger,the chance to elude having to produce facts,
anyone can produce an article like his,full of cliches,bigotry,and discrimination,and I also think more than a Tad of jealousy,seeing the older Farangs get the lovely Young Ladies,and he can't,because he's too busy trying to get established,and probably doesn't have 2 Baht to rub together anyway.
Up to now he has not written one word defending his article,my guess is: he is unlikely to either! except,perhaps to keep stirring the publicity pot,of the thoughts of an Angry Young Man,who can't stand seeing Older men having fun.
But why let facts spoil a biased article? his style of writing is common practice in the Worlds Gutter Press! and saves many hours of Factual Research, just crank out the controversial Tripe,and sit back and watch the Fireworks,we have Three Daily Newspapers in the UK (who shall remain nameless,but Brits will know them instantly ) that stir up this kind of crap every day on every page,thats why they are Members of the "Gutter Press"
Pathetic Excuse for Journalism ! and the reason why I don't buy Daily Newspapers any more.
I was puzzled by a comment on Dan Waite's website that Thai Visa is seen by some as Redneck Central.Having read this post I think I'm beginning to understand.
I particularly cherish the delusion that a young well educated man is motivated by the jealousy he feels when seeing overweight foreign oldsters with some young Thai lovely.I would have thought the main motivation would be to avoid throwing up.
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Apologies for repetition, but I beleieve Thaksin will be very relieved to see Jatuporn in jail until the election is over. He doesn't want him out, shooting his mouth off, perhaps getting the party into trouble, presenting an image of an angry party out for revenge.
Much better to have his sweet, softly spoken clone wandering around Thailand, mouthing empty platitudes about reconciliation for all.
Great post.I hadn't thought of it quite like that but now you have articulated it I think you must be right.
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Why do you reply to someones post and then refer to them in the third person?
I haven't replied to your post in detail because we've been around this course so many times already.I hope you accept it's not a lack of courtesy.
Just a few points
1.I think it's beyond dispute that Thaksin was the legal PM when deposed by the coup makers in 2006.I'm not sure the caretaker status is really relevant
2.I think it would with time and patience have been possible to eject Thaksin democratically.The military cheerleaders simply deny this but without ever explaining why.Thaksin's influence was on the wane and the polls sowed this.
3.You repeat the view, voiced by some other apologists for the old order that country people are oppressed by locally based feudal elites.I think I know what is meant here but it doesn't alter the facts of life in Thailand relating to the Bangkok based dominance of a powerful elite network.Everything else is subsidiary.Read Duncan McCargo's masterful analysis for background.
The reason why I refer to the poster in third person is that he has me on "ignore", so somewhat absurdly he only reacts when he sees me in quotes.
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On the question of amnesties, those frothing with indignation at the prospect might care to reconcile their position on the coup makers of 2006 who, conscious of their criminality, awarded themselves an ex post facto pardon for an offence far worse than any committed by Thaksin and with more lasting and disastrous consequences.In some countries the gallows would have beckoned.
Where there's a will there's a way
Just for the record: that's what -- for obvious reasons -- every what every single 'coup-making' group has done for the last 80 years.
That doesn't make it right of course, but it's a given. It is by definition a different situation than giving amnesty to a person like Thaksin (not claiming it's better or worse -- different.)
I agree of course.You will appreciate I was trying to expose the hypocrisy of selective indignation.
But on the issue of Thai coups the question of amnesty cannot be taken for granted.The key issue is whether the coup is approved, or in the case of the last one - orchestrated, by the feudal elite and its military supporters.If an attempted coup takes place that doesn't have this approval, the consequences can be rather severe - notably in the case of General Chalard in the 1970's who faced a firing squad within days.
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There was no way to remove an extra-constitutional caretaker, once resigned and then returned, democratically. By the 1997 constitution Thaksin wasn't supposed to be there ... the constitution failed to cover the situation that evolved. The fact that Thaksin has eroded all the checks and balances needed for democracy to function is an additional issue. Most countries have similar situations in their histories. In fact, my own country of origin "committed treason" against King George III
Thailand has far too many similar situations, but a reasonable man can see the justification in this occurrence.The point of my post was that, as always, in his attempts to put the ills of Thai society at the feet of the Army and "the elite", Jayboy, as usual put the wrong problem first. Thaksin was the issue. In fact, 5 years later Thaksin is STILL the issue --- which is why this thread is about an amnesty for him.
My entire --- non-cherry-picked post follows ....
That must be one of the singularly most subjective statements I have seen on TVF.I would think that the "widely popular" at the time, and well accepted coup in 2006 was far less damaging than Thaksin's War on Drugs --- with 2700 killed ... at least for the families involved. Particularly the families of the 1400+ innocents killed .....
That the coup removed an extra-constitutional caretaker PM, that was the center of so much divisiveness with one single death ---- (self-inflicted)... pales in comparison. It can be argued that the consequences of the coup are still being felt. I would disagree. I would say that the consequences of Thaksin (which led to the coup) are still being felt.
I honestly don't see the more extreme elements of the PAD accepting an amnesty for Thaksin, if it includes wiping away Thaksin's court mandated jail time. Which would mean that an amnesty that allowed Thaksin back into politics would land Thailand right back into the protests of 2005-2006.
If I am wrong about this it wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong about things in Thailand
As you can read ---- I clearly state "at least for the families involved" --- referring to those that were killed in what Jayboy always refers to as "widely popular" ---
I was simply responding to the FACT that more people were killed (and arguably far more illegally) in the War on Drugs than in all the divisive Thaksin funded crap that followed the coup. I was also pointing out that the root problem wasn't the coup, it was Thaksin. You are free to disagree
None of this makes a great deal of sense.Some of the more obvious errors.
1.He comically compares the criminal coup of 2006 in Thailand to the American Revolution.His understanding of his own country's history seems as limited as his understanding of Thailand's.
2.He denies that Thaksin was legally PM of Tailand at the time of the coup - a straightforward lie here
3.He argues that Thaksin was the cause of Thailand's political problems, not the greedy feudal elite, the corrupt military and the manifest unfairness in Thai society.
4.He thinks the overall damage to Thailand was done by the Drugs War, not the coup.Silly of him to compare - a meaningless statement.
Incidentally mods encourage quotation of long posts to be cut down and it is not necessary to address every point raised.He calls this cherry picking.
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I would think that the "widely popular" at the time, and well accepted coup in 2006 was far less damaging than Thaksin's War on Drugs --- with 2700 killed ... at least for the families involved. Particularly the families of the 1400+ innocents killed .....
The mind begins to spin at the illogical drift of this post.(I will ignore the suggestion that the drugs war caused more harm to Thailand than the coup because it's such patent nonsense)
I don't actually accept the 2006 coup was widely popular, but hypothetically let's assume it was.Nobody disputes the coup leaders were guilty of a criminal act which had adverse effects on the country.The fact that the coup was "popular" has no relevance to the treasonable and criminal nature of the act.
We are always being told that the drugs war cannot be excused on the grounds it was popular with the Thai people.I agree.
You cannot have it both ways.Either you condemn the coup and the drugs war, or you can shrug your shoulders and say both ,while reprehensible, were popular with the Thai people.
Both events in my view reflect poorly on Thai culture.The objectives in both cases were reasonable even laudable, namely to rid Thailand of Thaksin's poisonous influence and to rid Thailand of the misery caused by the drugs trade.In both cases there was the typical Thai tendency to take the easy way out.No patience for chipping away at Thaksin democratically (which to be fair the PAD movement early on was doing effectively0.And no patience for a multi pronged assault on all the contributing factors in the drugs trade.
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Even though she says "amnesty will restore peace".... she also says "amnesty is not a priority"
With those sort of verbal pratfalls, it's no wonder the clone of the verbal pratfall superstar says she's "too busy" to debate anyone.
Not clear how this is a pratfall, since the two statements are consistent with each other.It might take a moment of reflection to consider how this might be.
On the question of amnesties, those frothing with indignation at the prospect might care to reconcile their position on the coup makers of 2006 who, conscious of their criminality, awarded themselves an ex post facto pardon for an offence far worse than any committed by Thaksin and with more lasting and disastrous consequences.In some countries the gallows would have beckoned.
Where there's a will there's a way
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Yes, the educated middle class Thais are more likely not to be swayed by propaganda, and more by several layers of public facts, and their own public observations of Thaksin. Most have seen the repercussions on their successful businesses by Thaksins machinations and know they are NOT for the general good, but totally self serving.
Why there is such an OBVIOUS push on Thaivisa to convince us expats and 30% Thais, that Thaksin is the light and the way, is beyond comprehension.
No doubt there are new TVF members who are just that, new interested persons, but there is also an obvious influx of one-note, pro Thaksin, posters with slightly varied, and unsubtle variations on the same pro-Thaksin theme, and NOTHING else that they do here... Nada, nothing, zip. There is very little obvious rebuttal by a huge influx of new members. One or two, vs. dozens. It seems Thaksins opposing side is MUCH less desperate to convince TVF members to talk them up.
I just keep wondering... who exactly are they trying to sway and why?
Are our 'disenting voices' listened to so much, or too much, that it has caused a trickle down effect with Thais in the new communication age we all live in? Must we be silenced to win the election?
The same voices that say we are wrong, and 'shut up you don't matter here', keep trying to get us to change our tune or shut up. We must be pretty scary to them, to go to such a great effort.
It's amusing you have adopted the same phrase I have used from time to time, the "one note" propagandist.I suppose I should be flattered.
I wonder whether you have been following another Thai Visa forum in an alternative timestream.I certainly am not aware of other than a tiny minority of members proselytising for Thaksin or with a specific attachment to the man.There is a much larger number, including myself, generally sympathetic to the redshirt movement but feeling perhaps with its weak leadership it isn't ready for power.Technically the Abhisit/Korn pairing is a strong one and a vote for the Dems is an entirely rational one.None of this however gets over the fundamental division in Thai politics and the need for the ruling elite to have its wings clipped.
Your comments on the new influx to Thai Visa seem slightly unhinged.They remind me of that great scene in one of the Men in Black (oops, what a creepy coincidence) where Will Smith opens a cupboard to find a race of tiny aliens who believe that is the whole universe.Yeah,we are all scared to death of your "dissenting voices".
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So many = two or three.
The real Thaksin haters, I mean the really obsessive ones to the point their hatred obscures reason and judgement, are relatively few.There is an equally small number, overlapping with the former group, of military cheerleaders with unblinking support for the feudal elite.Though small in number they seem to be greater since they are prolific posters.
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Anyway, back to your statement that "many of the Thaksin haters on this forum would dispute your claim most Thais supported the drugs war". Perhaps you could be more specific about where this opinion was coming from, because it's not one i'm that familiar with.
Yes I could certainly name two or three of the obsessive Thaksins haters who have commented as I reported.I'm not going to name them openly for obvious reasons.
I completely agree with you that it doesn't affect the immorality and wickedness of the drugs war no matter whether most Thais approved of it or not.
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The whole piece sounds like an autobiography to me.
Actually the whole article is meaningless. Its written by a blogger, not a journalist per se. At least not a journalist people are queueing up to read. Writing for Asia Correspondent I'm afraid is an occuptation which is getting a bit like an expat in similar occupations to those the author describes. Asian Correspondent used to get quite good reviews, even the Guardian liked it. But they gave it a good review without really watching it for a while. Its now populated by a lot of wannabe journalists. expounding on their personal views I don'r know any ex foreign correspondent falling in line to write there. I do not believe Bangkok Pundit is the guru some people imagine.
The fact that here may be certain characters as the 'author' describes actually has nothing to do with whether foreigners like Thaksin or not. Generally foreigners take a western stance rather than an Asian one. Asians forgive corruption much more readily. And as we saw most Thais actually supported Thaksin's drugs war , in which most victims were innocent.
Foreigners who support and understand one side of the Thai perspective will support Thaksin. Foreigners who stick rigidly to their established code that a murderer is a murderer, a thief is a thief and must be treated as one etc will not. Its got nothing at all to do whether they go to girlie bars or not or Purachai establishing a curfew. Nobody in any city in the world wants a midnight curfew nowadays. It was inane and boring but he threw in a couple of things to get some hits.
Mmm.Up to a point Lord Copper.I'm not sure there's much difference these days between an ex tabloid stringer and a blogger.
Incidentally many of the Thaksin haters on this forum would dispute your claim most Thais supported the drugs war.I don't.I do dispute your simplistic analysis of how foreigners think.You are right however to kick the absurd Purachai connection into touch.
Who said anything about Bangkok Pundit being a guru? Still it's an indispensable reference point as most "proper" foreign correspondents would unanimously agree.But with respect it's not really your area is it? Last time I checked you were writing about a UK Thai wiggling her bottom, where Fergie hung out during the royal wedding, UK criminals in Pattaya etc etc.Nothing wrong with that of course but Shawn Crispin it sure ain't.
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Warning to all TV community:
I wanted to find out who Dan Waites is so I found his site with Google - www.danwaites.com found out he is an activist writer for the Red Shirts and a supporter of Thaksin.
That's one of the several downfalls of using a blogger entry as the basis for "news"
I have just spent five minutes looking at the site, never having heard of Dan Waites before.There is no evidence at all he is an activist writer for the Red Shirts. although I expect that's where his general sympathies lie.I could see no evidence he is a supporter of Thaksin.What is clear however he is well educated, well informed and someone of intelligence.I will keep an open mind but he does seem worth following.Frankly a lively intelligence is a refreshing change after the one note braying of the military cheerleaders.
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Oh come off it.I'm already on record with my view that the article is rather feeble but it also clearly touches a nerve with some (actually quite a lot given the many responses on this thread).The Thaksin hating foreigners (I'm talking about the obsessives not the average joe who doesn't like him much) do tend to be an odd lot by and large.George was quite right to post it.What's been interesting has been the visceral anger of many, clearly suggesting in a rather mediocre piece the author has hit home on a few points.
I read your earlier post and thought it hit the nail on the head.
Why do you assume though, that because people get angry about a point of view, that must mean that it has hit a nerve, that there is some truth to it and that it must be insulting them personally?
Do you find yourself only ever angry about a point of view when it accurately and personally insults you? If so, fine, that's you, but don't assume everyone's emotions work in the same way.
I never get angry over an exchange in an anonymous internet forum.None of it is important enough.
As to the article I think it may have touched a nerve with many who conform to the stereotype mentioned, and don't like being reminded of it.
I really like Thai Visa but it does have an external reputation, unfair in some ways, of being somewhat downmarket with members on the reactionary side.
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Absolutely a terrible, inflammatory article, apparently allowed just to get hits on this site. Where did this guy learn to put together a written argument? And why would TV give him the platform to express his ignorance? Today isn't April 1.
If ever there was a good thread to delete, (not just close) it is this one. It is a slap in the face to HUGE majority of people who come to this forum in good faith and abide by the norms that govern decent behavior, on and off of the forum. ThaiVisa has stooped to a new, appalling and embarrassing low, apparently just to up their numbers.
Agree with all of kandahar's points, but especially with the two paragraphs above.
Really don't know what was going through George's mind when he decided to post this trash. I thought Thaivisa was better than this. Apparently not.
Oh come off it.I'm already on record with my view that the article is rather feeble but it also clearly touches a nerve with some (actually quite a lot given the many responses on this thread).The Thaksin hating foreigners (I'm talking about the obsessives not the average joe who doesn't like him much) do tend to be an odd lot by and large.George was quite right to post it.What's been interesting has been the visceral anger of many, clearly suggesting in a rather mediocre piece the author has hit home on a few points.
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Firstly, the so called sexpats, the dimwitted OP are referring too's, breadth of Thai political knowledge is limited to whatever pigeon English drivel some Issan hooker from whatdaphukaburi, pukes up whenever her mouth isn't full. And generally its positive regarding Taksin, as ignorant dregs and low life's in the north commonly support him. So these guys generaly tend to be the Taxsin supporters. It's the folks with a clue, the contributing members of society who have settled down here with Thai Families who see Taxsin and his red shirt thugs for the terrorists that they are.
David Waite can eat a fat pickle, and if I ever met him in person I'd tell em so..
Oh dear, it's this kind of post (and I'm not entirely sure it isn't a hoax ) that rather confirms the author's view of the Thaksin hating sexpat.
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Just a bogus excuse to cover incompetence.
You simply don't know that.It could be true but one can't know at this stage.
We will know one way or the other , or at least have a clearer sense, quite shortly as the campaign progresses.
Thailand has far too many similar situations, but a reasonable man can see the justification in this occurrence.
Thaksin Says Sister May Not Become PM Even If Pheu Thai Wins
in Thailand News
Posted
It's the Thai people who decide or should decide.However in the last few years the Thai people have been treated with contempt, and their wishes ignored.Even now the Democrats and their protectors in the elite are shitting themselves with anxiety as it appears the country is becoming increasingly enthusiastic about Khun Yingluck.I picture these myopics agonising about how the Thai "justice" system can frustrate the Thai people again if the polls go the "wrong" way.They may even succeed...but the endgame is clear and it will not be pretty.