jayboy

6 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

t should be pointed out that paying for goods and services in Thailand, using offshore accounts/cards, is still regarded as taxable income in Thailand. The fact that you're doing things that way and presumably not reporting that "income" is also known as tax evasion.

I agree that the original post is hard to decipher but your interpretation of it seems correct.

In my view there needs to be applied a degree of common sense to this subject, and it's simply inappropriate to describe the use of offshore cards for Thailand services as "tax evasion", not least because there's no certainty payment would be made out of taxable income.It all depends on the circumstances particularly the frequency and intent.As far as the Thai RD department is concerned I would be astonished if they had any problem with a retired expatriate occasionally using an offshore card - not that they would ever know, at least for the foreseeable future.

Copter sounds fun

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

taking revenge on the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza for the atrocities of Hamas

Are you suggesting that the inhabitants of Gaza do not support the Hamas terrorist leadership? If so surely they should be assisting the Israelis in destroying Hamas. If there is however a wide measure of support then the Israeli campaign seems justified.

1 hour ago, DualSportBiker said:

The lass next to me was TG staff. They were overstaffed and she got the short straw for not working that leg. They put her in business class and did not upgrade one of many regular gold-card holding customers. When I asked her why she was not in economy and an upgraded customer in her place she simply asked 'Why would we do that?'

Many years ago when British Airways was still a well regarded airline its Chairman,Sir John King, was on a business trip from London to New York flying First Class.He heard from the crew that there had been some overbooking and that unfortunately a First Class passenger had had to be consigned to the back of the plane.He immediately got up collected his bags and told the crew to switch him with the aggrieved passenger.His view that paying passengers should always get priority over BA staff however exalted they were.So Sir John went cattle class to New York that day.

A year or so ago I told this story to a Thai friend who was very familiar with TG.His reaction was that not only would TG managers find the story hard to believe but they would completely fail to understand the mindset of Sir John and the priority he gave to paying passengers.Sir John was no shrinking violet.He was a self made hard as nails businessman and could be ruthless - but he understood the important things.

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

So, people who earned money last year and remitted it last year, are taxable on that income. It's a basic premise of all of these discussions on tax, in every thread.

The Revenue Code content is well known and has not changed for many years.Thailand was quite correct to address the anomaly particularly as current and past taxable income was obviously fungible.

However we are talking about tax returns.For the group under discussion - defined in my posts - it is wrong to suggest they must submit a tax return for 2023 even if they remitted last year from current income.They will need to in the future almost certainly.

The objective on this forum should be to give sound practical advice - often to people who don't have much experience in tax matters.The fact that some submitted returns in the past is not relevant.

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

There is nothing misleading whatsoever about saying thousands do file, especially when I said there are 300k in country. Ben got it, others seem less good at math.

And digging into this rather strange response, I note you finally seem to accept you are out on a limb.Ben said 1% which I suppose could be true though he, you and I don't really know.What is indisputable fact is that the vast majority don't.

Such a pity as it's water under the bridge now.

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Every time I go to the district office, I see foriegners filing returns, many just to reclaim tax withheld on savings. If you think foreign retirees dont pay tax here, you would be very mistaken.

 

Did these foreigners share their financial details with you? Many foreigners have Thai investments and business interests.Of course they would file tax returns.

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I'm not trying to make anyone file, im trying to make sure that everyone has enough. Information to make their own decisions.

Agreed and you are in the vanguard of providing an excellent information base on this subject (future tax obligations of resident expatriates).

But in this instance the subject was past filings and here you have been misleading.The vast majority of resident pensioner expatriates with no Thai income have not been filing returns.None of the major accounting firms in Bangkok nor the RD itself recommended this.

Please give it a rest.Most of us know the technical position.

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Which begs the question: who here has obtained a Thai tax identification number as a result of the new tax regulations?

I know of at least two people who have recently acquired a TIN not so much because of the recent tax change but because their banks in Jersey and Isle of Man were making ominous noises they would be trouble ahead if they didn’t have one.

4 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

the problem is the awakening to the reality that tax preparation and filing in Thailand has always been a requirement, but they never realized

I think most informed people (including me and everyone I know in Thailand) knew very well that overseas income was taxable and strictly speaking a return should be filed.But they were also aware of the current year income/previous years income distinction.They also knew that overseas income was fungible.They knew that RD did not expect the category under consideration to file returns.And on the whole they didn't.The change is as you point out is rather small but it is important as it tips the balance for affected resident expatriates to file returns from now on - probably.

22 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The rules haven't changed for the 2024 tax filing, they are the same they've been for years. All that changes for next year is one small simple rule change which is extremely easy to understand. If you can't file this year it's because you have never filed before. Resident expats with overseas income have been filing taxes here for years.

 

Mike, you have done a fantastic job on this forum in clarifying the new tax situation - to the extent this can be done on existing knowledge.The Memorandum you produced was an excellent piece of work, though obviously still work in progress.

However you are simply not representing the position accurately regarding filing tax returns in the past by most resident expats, and I am particularly referring to retired expats who spend more than half the year in the Kingdom and have no income of any kind generated in Thailand..

You might argue that they should have filed - but overwhelmingly they have not.The situation has changed now, in part due to Common Reporting Standards with information sharing by international banks.So we must comply and the vast majority will.But there is no penalty for not having filed in previous years.

I was employed as a senior manager in India and then in Thailand and in both countries paid income tax - couldn't avoid it actually (PAYE). Couldn't have obtained Thai Permanent Residence without paying years of income tax. Since retirement I have never filed a tax return because I had no domestic income but I will almost certainly file for the 2024 tax year.This is also the case for most people in my situation.A couple of friendsmade inquiries of RD a few years ago and were told it was not necessary - no Thai income. Call it the Nelson Touch.

So in my opinion you are completely out on a limb on this aspect.It's not really even up for debate.You will certainly say that your punctilious adherence to the letter of the law trumps the actual practice of most retired expatriate residents.Perhaps it does.It's really just a minor detail but if there is misleading information or deviation from reality in just a small part, there's a danger of the whole being tainted. As Falstaff said, Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?