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buddy
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Posts posted by buddy
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SWITZERLAND have seen the light and have withdrawn their application to join the EU.
That very move saved Switzerland from being dissolved as a sovereign nation.
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True....
The sad thing is that whatever the outcome roughly half the population will feel hugely disappointed and in case of a Remain vote even cheated on and robbed. Britain will remain a vastly divided country when it comes to its relationship with the continent and the EU.... regardless of what June 23 will bring. :-(
Well the EU only has itself to blame as the EU wasn't confident enough to ask us by democratic vote to vote to be in a political union which has divided Britain and European countries.
Instead of a referendum in 1975 to vote for a political union it used the front of a trading block which makes absolute common sense to join, after that the EU used lies, function creep and deceit to to morph and achieve its aim of a European superstate that robbed nations of their sovereignty and hard fought democracy...thats the root cause of why we are divided.
My friends, my family and i want our stolen sovereignty and democracy back from unelected EU despots that stole it in the first place in collusion with self serving treacherous British politicians.
VOTE OUT!
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I just read an article on bloomberg.com regarding "divided Britain". It´s about yet another YouGov survey claiming to show that the "Brexiteers" are
- older folks
- less educated than the "remainers"
- lower class people
Wow, I immediately thought of us TVF users here in this thread. Not very flattering, ...lol......
Anyway, what I actually quite liked in the article was this piece of analysis:
Both those for and against staying in Europe told pollsters by 6-to-1 margins that the economy has fundamental problems, but as YouGov President Peter Kellner noted, the crucial difference is that they disagree about the causes. The “remain” voters blamed the problems on the banks, the Conservative government and growing inequality. The “leave” voters picked different scapegoats: EU regulations, low-wage immigrant workers and the previous Labour government.
The referendum is not really about Europe or at least it isn't just about Europe. It's about austerity and inequality, opportunity and insecurity. Europe is stuck in a battle for self definition, one that is playing out across major democracies. This is the undertow that threatens Cameron and his "remain" camp.
A political change in response to global changes and to expectations of Europeans may be states leaving what so many believe to be a failed or disappointingly ineffective EU beginning with the UK.
Exactly...If Britain doesn't get out of the EU now when the EU eventually fails and we are still in it it will drag us down with it.
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Nearly 4 million UKIP voters are the very reason why we are having an EU referendum.
In my view that´s not the point and in a way it is irrelevant. We could or should then also ask how many millions voted for parties who are pro EU?
Well in your Euro centric thinking maybe not, however it is a fact that the Conservative led British government thought it such an existential threat to them regaining power they put the EU in/out referendum in their election manifesto, without it being there more voters would have not voted for the Conservative party and more would have voted for UKIP and the Conservatives would have lost power.
So it is VERY relevant!
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If its the husk of the rice grain.. then lam the by product is indeed rice bran. Its used a lot for fishing.. but I would not eat it.
Hi Robblok,
Interesting what you comment...i would have thought that rice bran would be a straight substitute for wheat bran?
...why would you not eat it?
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The EU achieved this by lies, deceit and function creep.
I for one feel i have had my democracy stolen and my country has had its sovereignty stolen by the EU...who gave the unelected EU commission the mandate to rule over us without our consent eh?
Well, nothing could ever have happened without the consent of the ELECTED political "elite" in Westminster, Berlin, Paris etc. No treaty would have come into effect without those elected leaders and heads of states agreeing to it. And let´s not forget that most treaties required unanimous decisions (at EU level). So my point is: most if not all of what we moan about these days was not imposed upon us by an alien life form but by the leaders who the electorate voted for in their respective countries. And if those "political elites" are to blame for the misery you and many others feel to be in at the moment why didn´t the UK electorate give UKIP a mandate at the last general election to pull Britain out of the EU without a referendum?
What I am saying is that with all the politicians who eagerly signed all the EU treaties in the past, do we really think that going forward these same politicians and political parties will all of the sudden start make all the right decisions, decisions that are right for Britain? Phew, I like your optimism.... even if I fail to share it......
The politicians are in it for EU money - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3636143/Greediest-snouts-EU-trough-Not-sure-vote-Read-stinking-wealth-hypocrisy-Brussels-fat-cats-Kinnocks-help-decide.html
Nearly 4 million UKIP voters are the very reason why we are having an EU referendum.
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You nor i or anybody else cannot predict the future when Britain leaves the EU but Britain will be free to make our own trade deals with the rest of the World and in Britain's interests, not the EU interests.
We can however see the past and what a bitter experience for Britain it has been being in the EU for the last 40 years, sovereignty and democracy stolen by function creep, lies and deceit, British industries decimated due to EU red tape, British workers jobs lost by transferring jobs to the EU, non and low skilled British workers wages kept low by wage compression due to mass open door EU immigration, strain in the NHS, housing, schools, food prices kept artificially high by the EU Common agricultural policy are just but a few.
"You nor I or anybody ...": I agree! But my gripe is that the Outers claim they can. "We will be better off." On the other side a comment like "We run the risk of a negative impact on trade and employment" is generally always brushed aside as scaremongering.
"Bitter experience... British industries decimated ... wage compression .... (etc)": You are assuming that all of this is due to the EU and only the EU? The things you mention have nothing to do with the British government and their own policies? Nothing to do with globalisation? Nothing to do with British companies making mistakes, failing to adjust to new market trends etc? Why are so many people within the NHS saying that without immigrants working in the NHS the NHS would have collapsed a long time ago?
Personally, i hate the bitterness in this "black and white" discussion about in/out. The EU isn´t perfect but neither is it the devil in disguise. Personally, I´d like to see the UK to stay in because I think it is better for Britain, better for the EU and better for the world. I also would not want to see my purchasing power in LoS being decimated by a plummeting pound if Britain leaves. But if Britain votes "out" it will certainly be "entertaining" us on this board for months and years to come and I am convinced that these stupid sounding comments from the out campaign that "It will all be fine! We´ll be better off! Nothing will change in terms of trade" etc bla bla bla will be proven utterly wrong.
But only time will tell. Maybe we will find out, maybe we won´t ....
Anyways, a nice weekend to everyone!
DUS
Forget about trade the EU is becoming less and less significant to Britain every year.
Consider this,
How did the EU come to be in the position it is now when Britain actually voted to join a trading block called the European Economic Community (EEC) NOT A POLITICAL Union that interferes in every aspect of our lives?
The EU achieved this by lies, deceit and function creep.
I for one feel i have had my democracy stolen and my country has had its sovereignty stolen by the EU...who gave the unelected EU commission the mandate to rule over us without our consent eh?
These 2 issues are so important that to vote out is the only option to their recovery.
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One of the big questions on the economic front asked particularly by the remain groups is "what would the out vote look like for the UK?" Its a fair question on the face of it but is it? You vote to stay as we are life carries on or you vote for a change, well what change?
The way I see it its like this, firstly if there is vote to leave nothing will change straight away, it would take time to "agree" to get out of the EU and a timeline, then treaties will have to be changed/emended or ended this would apparently take 2 years or more, then you would begin to see some small changes and more as time goes whether that would affect the likes of you and me is another question we may not in our remaining lifetime.
If we stay in, putting the boot on the foot, remain have not said what we would see, remember the EU have shelved a raft of new proposals until after the referendum, something that I am suspicious of, what do they not want us to know, what are they afraid of? The truth is that the rmain camp would find it difficult to tell us what remain actually means, apart from "things will carry on as usual". Well I have seen over the years how the EU has morfed from the EEC into the EU and I never saw that coming or wanted it although I am sure some did but chose not to alert the ordinary people about it.
Whilst we have our referendum the Greek situation carries on, its not sorted out is it, the IMF have said they will give no more support that leaves the EU to bail it out, are they making payment back or defaulting? No one is saying but its one of the smaller countries is giving the EU a big problem. The EU bent the rules to allow Greece, Italy and France to join and that is the root of the problem, well one of them they are not good with money but they want ever more of it, remember that auditors have been unable to sign of their books for 20 years.
So the truth is that neither side is able to give you a cast iron view of what the world will turn out to be, neither can predict the future, David Buik, financial pundit on the BBC 5 live "Wake up to Money programme said " Its impossible to predict the future more than 6 months into the future, 3 is bad enough" so any Treasury forecasts for the longer term are you guesses and its no surprise when they get them wrong.
Will we get our democracy back or will it be further taken over by Brussels? An out vote would bring some laws repealed whereas staying in would mean that there will be more of a Brussels impact on our lives, so here things are little clearer.
I dont intend to go into Immigration here as it would take too long other than to say its an issue no doubt for a country that is the most densely populated in the continent and I am sure you will all have your views from 6000 miles away.
Whether we stay or go it will be a leap of faith to a certain degree, stay with what you have been used to for the last 40 years or a change of direction based on that experience.
I have voted for out as I believe we can thrive outside of the "Single Market/EU" concept, it will be to the EU's detriment if they cannot come to terms with this, taking the 5th biggest economy out of their market will diminish their influence and they do like influence which is why they are ever expanding. In short I am optimistic over our future outside and pesimistic our it inside.
My influence over how this will be achieved is nil apart from my vote, the same as yours.
Good points and we do not need to be in a political union to trade!
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Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the June 23rd IN/OUT EU referendum and people want to know the facts.
Here are some facts to consider,
You are not voting to leave the European Economic Area (EEA) or the World Trade Organisation (WTO) meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged when we leave.
Britain's trade with the EU is dwindling year on year and accounts for approximately 14% of our trade, however Britain's trade with the rest of the world is increasing year on year so the EU needs Britain's trade more than Britain needs the EU, for example when Britain leaves the might of the German car industry will be knocking on herr Merkels door looking for a favourable trade deal with Britain.
You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change when we leave.
You are not voting to leave the United Nations, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.
You are not voting to leave Europe, Europe is a continent not a political Union!
You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the EU so your human rights are still guaranteed when we leave.
You are not voting against workers rights. The UK had plenty of workers rights before the EU even existed and these will remain, in fact unlike the UK the EU has no minimum wage so workers are open to exploitation of slave wages by being in the EU.
Just to dispel a few myths,
1. Paid holiday leave - EU 4 weeks.... UK 5.6 weeks.
2. Maternity leave - EU 14 weeks...UK 52 weeks.
3. Maternity pay - EU no minimum pay.... UK 90% of your wages for 6 weeks then £140 for 33 weeks.
4. Equal pay - This was law in 1970 before the UK joined the EU.
5. Wages- The EU has no minimum wage unlike the UK and we have one of the highest minimum wages in the world
6. Discrimination- The UK had laws on sex (1975)and race (1965) discrimination long before the EU.
7. Health and Safety- We in the UK have some of the best health and safety at work and have since 1974...We all look in shock horror at working conditions and standards when on holiday in many EU countries.
You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global organised crime.
Contrary to the belief of some EU fearmongers recently on TV you are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members and this will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).
The UK economy will benefit to the tune of tens of £billions of pounds in the first year after we leave instead of being Billions being sent overseas to the corrupt EU and frittered away. our money can be spent to benefit British people who's hard work paid for the tax money in the first place.
Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU who then get our re-labelled money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Farming will not lose money because of EU funding (our own relabelled money) being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.
You are not voting leave to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into organisations like the NHS. Passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport that will not change. However Britain will take full control of its borders back and control who come in to Britain. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS for example, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the USA, Canada and Australia use will come into effect.
You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of a Ford Transit Van Factory from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford £80m!
What you are voting for is UK sovereignty and the right to determine our own destiny. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union that the British people did not vote for. You are voting against an EU commission of unelected, elite men and women that nobody at all voted for and yet they make laws and decisions on our behalf without your consent. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives and unlike the EU you have the opportunity every 5 years to vote them out if you don't like them. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, big business and career politician's who need EU money to thrive!
Think about the future...and your family's future.
VOTE LEAVE!
What is the amount that we would save per week if we were to leave the EU. I see you mention tens of billions of pounds?.
Depending on which reference you refer to Britain's direct contributions are anywhere between 50 million and 65 million pounds A DAY! (the 65 Million a day takes takes into account the EU prosperity tax where the EU taxes Britain more the more successful Britain's economy is based on Britains GDP, last year the EU prosperity tax was an extra 1.7 Billion pounds)...so the answer to your question is anywhere between 350 million pounds to 455 million pounds a Week....this does not take into account the burden of cost that EU red tape adds to British businesses so in fact the figure will be higher.
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Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the June 23rd IN/OUT EU referendum and people want to know the facts.
Here are some facts to consider,
You are not voting to leave the European Economic Area (EEA) or the World Trade Organisation (WTO) meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged when we leave.
Britain's trade with the EU is dwindling year on year and accounts for approximately 14% of our trade, however Britain's trade with the rest of the world is increasing year on year so the EU needs Britain's trade more than Britain needs the EU, for example when Britain leaves the might of the German car industry will be knocking on herr Merkels door looking for a favourable trade deal with Britain.
You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change when we leave.
You are not voting to leave the United Nations, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.
You are not voting to leave Europe, Europe is a continent not a political Union!
You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the EU so your human rights are still guaranteed when we leave.
You are not voting against workers rights. The UK had plenty of workers rights before the EU even existed and these will remain, in fact unlike the UK the EU has no minimum wage so workers are open to exploitation of slave wages by being in the EU.
Just to dispel a few myths,
1. Paid holiday leave - EU 4 weeks.... UK 5.6 weeks.
2. Maternity leave - EU 14 weeks...UK 52 weeks.
3. Maternity pay - EU no minimum pay.... UK 90% of your wages for 6 weeks then £140 for 33 weeks.
4. Equal pay - This was law in 1970 before the UK joined the EU.
5. Wages- The EU has no minimum wage unlike the UK and we have one of the highest minimum wages in the world
6. Discrimination- The UK had laws on sex (1975)and race (1965) discrimination long before the EU.
7. Health and Safety- We in the UK have some of the best health and safety at work and have since 1974...We all look in shock horror at working conditions and standards when on holiday in many EU countries.
You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global organised crime.
Contrary to the belief of some EU fearmongers recently on TV you are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members and this will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).
The UK economy will benefit to the tune of tens of £billions of pounds in the first year after we leave instead of being Billions being sent overseas to the corrupt EU and frittered away. our money can be spent to benefit British people who's hard work paid for the tax money in the first place.
Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU who then get our re-labelled money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Farming will not lose money because of EU funding (our own relabelled money) being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.
You are not voting leave to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into organisations like the NHS. Passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport that will not change. However Britain will take full control of its borders back and control who come in to Britain. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS for example, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the USA, Canada and Australia use will come into effect.
You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of a Ford Transit Van Factory from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford £80m!
What you are voting for is UK sovereignty and the right to determine our own destiny. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union that the British people did not vote for. You are voting against an EU commission of unelected, elite men and women that nobody at all voted for and yet they make laws and decisions on our behalf without your consent. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives and unlike the EU you have the opportunity every 5 years to vote them out if you don't like them. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, big business and career politician's who need EU money to thrive!
Think about the future...and your family's future.
VOTE LEAVE!
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There's nothing bigoted in wanting your country back after years of abuse!
I agree with the first part of your comment. But please tell us: where have YOU been abused by the EU in recent years? And how did it negatively impact on YOUR PERSONAL life?
EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE UK IS AFFECTED BY THE EU as human beings we all have to eat, so the EU bitter experience is personal to every one in Britain as the EU Common agricultural policy (CAP) keeps Food prices artificially high. also if you were a British fisherman you have probably lost your job and this is due to the EU...the fishing still goes on in British waters but British fisherman don't do it as Spanish and Portuguese and other EU nationals fishermen fish Britain's waters to the point that Britain now has to import certain types of fish caught in our waters but landed in EU ports thanks to the EU...how pathetic is that!
The demise of the British fishing industry - https://www.facebook.com/notes/ukip-referendum-tv-channel/the-demise-of-the-british-fishing-industry-due-to-the-eus-common-fisheries-polic/281254112206030
Also the EU transfers jobs from Britain - http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/transit/65364/ford-transit-van-factory-closes
I could go on all day but....
So please don't be so crass as to think your EU project is a benign organisation...it is far from it.
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The problems caused by of loss of sovereignty and uncontrolled immigration etc etc are now getting lost in this barrage of relentless doom laden messages and it does and will have an effect on enough people to swing the balance.
Personally, I think it would have helped if the Outers would have made a clear case of what a post-EU exit Britain would look like. I´ve the impression that so far they´ve limited themselves to saying "We´ll be better off." "We´ll be in charge of our own future again." "Nothing of what the Remainers say is true, it´s only scaremongering" etc etc. I think that if you want your people to vote in favour of a dramatic change such as leaving the EU, they need to do better than the poor "project fear" disclaimer they use 24/7. IMHO! YMMV! ;-))
You nor i or anybody else cannot predict the future when Britain leaves the EU but Britain will be free to make our own trade deals with the rest of the World and in Britain's interests, not the EU interests.
We can however see the past and what a bitter experience for Britain it has been being in the EU for the last 40 years, sovereignty and democracy stolen by function creep, lies and deceit, British industries decimated due to EU red tape, British workers jobs lost by transferring jobs to the EU, non and low skilled British workers wages kept low by wage compression due to mass open door EU immigration, strain in the NHS, housing, schools, food prices kept artificially high by the EU Common agricultural policy are just but a few.
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Hi Robblok,
It is the husk of the Rice grain.
....perhaps "Lam" is the name they call rice "bran" in Thailand?
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I am just about to fly back later today, with 2 weeks to go before the vote, my postal vote is in the post!
Travelling round the country cant help but notice that its the OUT that seems to be more prominent, large signs on houses in Nottingham and Plymouth, it doers seem to be also a demographic issue as well, all those that voted to go into the EEC in 1975 are now changing their minds and they do seem to be determined to get out and register their vote. Un surprisingly most of the people who I spoke to, of my age, are for out.
Watching the so called debates on the tv it is dissappointing to note that whilst the people want to hear what people have to say the opposition keep chiming in and denying the public the chance to hear commentators views in full and its the labour people who have ben doing this more than the others, they have not served the public well whilst listening to their own voices.
Gove has been very calm and made good compelling speeches, John Major really lost it on Andrew Marr last Sunday.
Interesting times ahead.
Just goes to show how people can have different perceptions. I'm no fan of his, but I thought Major was excellent on the Marr programme, far better than Cameron and Osborne have been. He really showed up Boris to be full of bluster. The Remain campaign will need more of the same in the next 2 weeks.
John Major just another politician being a good orator...how low has Britain sunk for these despot loving Europhiles with money and EU lucrative jobs as their ultimate goal to rule us.
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Dear All,
Doe's anyone know where to buy Rice Bran in Pattaya?
Thanks for any replies.
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It may be more people want out and they go and vote but its all rigged. The dictator Brussels can't let us leave because that will be the end of this evil EU.
The EU is doomed without Britain's BILLIONs every year and the EU knows this so all the skullduggery you are witnessing with the media and bribing institutions with EU money (our money rebranded) is a good sign that they are fearful.
The EU could of coarse do what they did with other Nations referendums, either rebrand it and force it through (The EU Constitution was renamed the Lisbon treaty after it was rejected) or force continues referenda until they get the answer the EU require.
Skulduggery is the default modus operandi of the EU so this is not a straight and fair EU in/out referendum for sure.
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Interestingly this week saw Greenpeace do a whistle blow, regarding the TTIP negotiations,conducted by the unelected EU commissioners. The documents show that US corporations will be granted unprecedented powers over Any new public safety or public health regulations that are produced in the future. This agreement would over ride any national legislation,and would allow U.S investors,companies,etc to sue for loss of profits in their own corporate court system,something that domestic firms and governments would not be able to do.
Further more these EU Bureaucrats are agreeing to US (Obama)
demands that they open up EU markets to unfair competition from US giant corporations,this in itself could lead to the loss of 1million jobs in the Eu.
As I have already said these negotiations were and are being conducted in complete secrecy,with the threat of criminal proceedings against anyone divulging the truth to the people. Good luck with that and Greenpeace.
My question is,why would these European Bureacrats and their advisers/consultants agree to something that is not in the best interest of Their people?
Could it be the case of the Autocrats knowing better than the people,if so is it now time to scrape the Magna Carta, as some supporters of the remain camp would appear to think.
Interesting because the EU is silencing whistleblowers with new EU laws.
Link here - https://act.wemove.eu/campaigns/whistleblowers-at-risk
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Here is the whole EU referendum debate.
Especially view Danial Hannans speech at 31 mins 05 secs.
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Ken Clarke9 MP for Nottingham Forest) is a europhile but I would enjoy meeting him down the pub, John Major great bloke met him several times, but Osbourne( Ritz Crackers) as I like to call him is different kettle of fish. He has never worked in the real world and is just a stuck up brat, his end game is to be PM and then move onto the EU and get another pension and great wage packet and for what, he is just clever with words. I would much prefer Boris or Michael Gove as PM than this little bag of crackers.
We dont always get what we want in life, I have always leaned towards the right in politics, but Cameron has been a huge disappointment, Corbean is unelectable, we therefore have a useless offer, we have to hope that the referendum gives us a better option, for a democracy to work there has to be a good government and an effective opposition, the UK has neither at the moment sadly, with 2 months to go I think a lot of Europe is waking up to the loss of our input and/or being the first of many to leave and form a true free trading block.
"and form a true free trading block"
I think that goes to the heart of it.
A sensible free-trading block, which reduces impediments to trading like bureaucracy, and sets common minimum-standards can be a good thing for all. The problem is getting to there, from here ! And linking this decision to the emotive subject of Immigration confuses the rational economics-based decision IMO.
Is it better to stay within the EU, and try very much harder to reform it & make it work, or to step away and start again ?
Will our politicians suddenly transform to become competent, then restore the UK to a working-democracy once again, and fix our problems ... or are we better praying for Europe to do it for them ?
Quite frankly, I'm still undecided, as to which is the best option.
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This question does come up occasionally, I never record the results so have to do the test every time, it only takes a few minutes (usually takes longer to find the power meter)
I edited my post slightly after following your link, my fan is pretty close to the one you linked to.
What brand and type of power meter do you use?
It's a Prodigit 2000MU power consumption meter.
http://www.prodigit.com/product_c_3.php?button_num=g10&this_cname=&folder_id=31&cnt_id=15&orderby=2
Came off Ebay, about 12 Quid IIRC.
Wow i am surprised it is so cheap...what brand and type do you use to measure 3 phase power consumption?
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This question does come up occasionally, I never record the results so have to do the test every time, it only takes a few minutes (usually takes longer to find the power meter)
I edited my post slightly after following your link, my fan is pretty close to the one you linked to.
What brand and type of power meter do you use?
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Now her's a thought how about not giving any overseas aid and looking after people in Britain better ?
How about not sending British workers taxes overseas so other people in foreign lands don't benefit because they never paid in??
How about giving it to pensioners living abroad who paid in all their lives , now theres a thought .
Nah because what political grandstanding can be gained with that...continue sending BILLIONS to the EU will guarantee you a lucrative job and access to vast EU personal wealth...ironically paid by your contributions of coarse.
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Anyone who votes to stay in must have been brainwashed by the EU propaganda machine and don't see the obvious flaws in EU security, border integrity and policies on agriculture and fishing - to name only a few of the more obvious failures. The EU might need UK, but UK certainly does not need to be held back by the EU with it's farcically ponderous governmental systems and blatant waste of budgets.
The more you understand how the EU works it will horrify you.
http://getbritainout.org/the-undemocratic-eu-explained-it-will-never-change/
http://www.dcbmep.org/in-advance-of-pms-speech-on-the-eu-here-are-the-facts-not-the-myths/
UK expats for EU exit
in Home Country Forum
Posted
Oceans will boil, oxygen will turn into mustard gas, the Earth will stop spinning, all your cats and dogs will contract rabies and infect you and the end of the world is nigh if you don't vote to remain in the EU.
The remain campaign instead of resorting to scaremongering and fear tactics should shout up what they consider are the positives of remaining in the EU...but alas!