Oberkommando

Obercommando , i'm sure anyone reading this would love to have a clue as to why you need so much money virtually every day. I'm not expecting you to reveal too much personal detail , but it is a huge sum you are spending , just a hint as to how would be of interest to us all i'm sure. I spend around 4-5000 baht a day for half the month on average (but some days almost nothing ) and i have always thought i was a big spender but you are something else.

I have a couple of cars, and some other stuff I am paying for on a monthly basis, as well as some business expenses, which makes up the most of it.

I'm earning more than I spend, and the business expenses are obviously recouped with profits.

wont you be better off going to the window type offices with your passport, there is no daily limit that way, for large frequent amounts thats what i do,.

Would if I could but there's none around where I live.

I'd need to go to a bank and they have inconvenient opening times for a night owl like me.

Do they even accept Cirrus/Plus/Maestro over the counter?

Cambodia is my choice.

Phnom Penh was busy last week when I was there. More and more people discovering the grass is greener over there.

Still the wild west though, won't be everybody's cup of tea.

I think the ones that are kicking up are the ones that are drawing their 10 pounds a day to live on and see the 150 baht as 3 beers they cant have, its not rocket science to go less often and draw more is it ?

I withdraw 20,000 to 30,000thb per transaction depending on machine and do it 20 times a month on average.

So I have to pay an additional 3,000thb+++ in addition to my issuing bank charges now just to bring money into this country using the most convenient method for me.

Thailand is getting too greedy and is biting the hand that feeds it.

Instead of changing my convenient method, I will end up spending less here, and not tipping for any service including restaurants and bars to recoup this fee.

Your loss again Thailand.

Wasn't Mark's father appointed by the Suchinda Junta to the cabinet in 1991?

Mark's Thai-Chinese family has long standing ties with the military it seems, even ties with the most unsavoury military rulers in recent history.

Now you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel of bullshit. You're talking about the civilian cabinet, put in place after the Chatichai Choonhaven government was overthrown, with Anand Panyarachun as its leader? The same leader that is arguably the most non corrupt and respected PM Thailand has had? The same leader that surprised the country by not being a puppet of the military, but forged his own path? The same leader that HM the King chose to run the country following Black May, until elections could take place? The same leader that appointed civilian technocrats to the cabinet himself? Suchinda did not make cabinet appointments, other than defense. But, again, you get a better argument if the facts don't get in the way.

And why do you need to point out his Thai-Chinese origins? You could very well say "Thaksin's Thai-Chinese family, blah blah blah, with the military, his cousin was army commander in chief, and later went on to be chairman of the board of an LPG transport company who's tankers just happened to be used by red shirted rioters as a threat to civilian lives and residences".

It was the NPKC junta that appointed the cabinet, and specifically Abhisit's father to the position of Deputy Minister of Public Health.

Seems two generations of Vejjajivas have benefited from Junta rule and military cabinet appointments. Like father, like son.

Why not point out Abhisit's Chinese origins, and why do so many people have a problem with that?

And I thought Chuan Leekpai was "the most non corrupt and respected PM Thailand has had", or have you now changed your mind about that?

I suppose anybody would be "the most non corrupt and respected PM Thailand has had" as long as it wasn't Thaksin or anyone associated with him right?

Wasn't Mark's father appointed by the Suchinda Junta to the cabinet in 1991?

Mark's Thai-Chinese family has long standing ties with the military it seems, even ties with the most unsavoury military rulers in recent history.

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

I use the ATM 20+ times per month and withdraw the maximum each time so it will still cost me over 3,000thb per month in charges in addition to what I already pay with my issuing bank.

Simply unacceptable.

I don't know much about high-end tourists, but I've spoken with a slew of backpackers in recent months/years. As I'm based in northernmost Thailand, I get the perspective from here. Although there is an array of are appealing facets of north Thailand (pretty much all the same things the south has, except beaches and snorkeling/diving/kayaking). Up in the north, we've got trekking, resorts, golf, and much the same you find all over Thailand. However, with few exceptions, every one of the dozens of backpackers I've spoken with are using Thailand as a stepping off point for Laos, with a few going on to Cambodia.

In other words, for thousands of low-end tourists exploring the central regions of SE Asia, Thailand scores low and Laos scores high. Why is that? Young folks give the following reasons:

>>>> Laos is like Thailand was 30 years ago: friendly, cheap, laid-back, not trying to be all westernized. The key word is friendly. I'm saying this as a messenger, as I don't have much experience in Laos, though the little bit I've explored there, I have to say it's preferable to Thailand in those ways aforementioned.

by all indications, TAT doesn't care what backpackers think, as all TAT's focus is on high-end tourists. Unfortunately, a glance at resorts in Thailand, will show that occupancy rates are through the floor. TAT should give a hoot about backpackers, because they bring a lot of revenue to the Thailand (a large quantity of low spenders can account for more revenue than a few big spenders). And some of today's backpackers will grow to become tomorrow's big spenders. Plus, backpackers are great networkers, and they tell their friends/family back home what they experience in Thailand. That's why Laos outscores Thailand in many ways, and they (and their friends/family) are talking with their feet.

Hot Tip: For those thinking of starting a low-end tourist biz in SE Asia, Laos is the wave of the future. Thailand is slipping toward insignificance, it's people spending much of their calories wondering where to buy more whitening lotions, or staring at Thai-dubbed Chinese TV sit-coms.

No amount of discounts (bogus or otherwise) are going to change the basic substance of what Thailand has to offer to visitors - nor is it going to change the surly attitude that tourists/resident farang receive from Thais in the tourist sector - who see farang as dummies whose only worth is how much they're willing to pull out of the ATM machine - and spend at that moment.

Cambodia seems to be doing very well as a result.

As you point out it was TAT policy to get a "better class of tourist" and they turned their backs on the core market of backpackers and budget tourists, not to mention snubbing the long stayers, whom are mostly backpackers, by limiting the amount of border runs they could do to a maximum of 90 days. Now they have a ridiculous 15 day stay for those entering by land, which means long term tourism without a visa is near enough impossible and travelling around the region by land is increasingly more difficult. It does ensure these travellers spend less and less time in Thailand though and hence less and less revenue for Thailand.

They are just reaping what they have sown by silly, unworkable policies and inconvenient, pie-in-the-sky ideas and idiotic planning

When I was in Phnom Penh last week it seemed to be thriving, many more new businesses have opened up and the guesthouse I was staying in was full. Every room occupied.

A few months ago the Thai Embassy there was not issuing any non-Khmer people with tourist visas either. A bizarre situation that had legitimate tourists from all over the World cursing and venting their frustrations outside. Incredible considering how Thailand is clamouring for tourists!

I certainly agree with your assessment of the low-end tourist business opening in Laos/Cambodia and by the looks of things many people are already doing just that.

How ironic that there are issues with his military service yet he rode to power on the back of a military coup, junta and subsequent machinations to become Prime Minister.

Ironic that it's only the reds that are having an 'issue' over it and yet seem to hate the military so much...but hate that he wasn't more a part of them...

I think the issue is that some people believe he dodged out of proper military service thus indicating his perceived privileged status.

How ironic that there are issues with his military service yet he rode to power on the back of a military coup, junta and subsequent machinations to become Prime Minister.

Didnt know they had council estates in Thailand.

They don't. They got slums though. Loads of 'em.

Not really true. A Thai is much more likely to be denied even a tourist visa to enter the US. We were unable to get a tourist or student visa for my sister-in-law. Nationals from poor countries are routinely denied visas to the US.

That's because around 80% of Thais that visit on tourist visas never leave.

thailand is an entirely different world when you can read,write,speak thai to a good standard. B eing able to read everything around you, understand everything being said, and communicate precisely what you want to say is the best way to go from being an outsider to an insider.

the wingers and moaners though would rather just carry on crying as opposed to actually doing something within their realm of control towards improving their situation (like learning to read, speak thai well)

You are still a farang and always will be a farang doesn't matter how much to try to mimic your hosts.

At the end of the day poverty is rife here and to be overcharged here by a few baht by someone who is skint to me is more honest than to have my pension f*cked over by some corporation, or by my employer in the uk or something similar.

Nonsense. Dishonesty is dishonesty.

Which was completely dispelled in countless Thaivisa threads at the time.

I'll believe the actual statistics from Reporters Sans Frontiers and the Freedom Against Censorship Thailand over you and your cohorts thanks very much.

Funny

http://facthai.wordpress.com/

works fine,

and I am getting it from SHINSAT via IpStar...

The irony is trenchant.

One must ask,

WHO OWNS THESE ISP's????

TOT ADSL,

Kasetsart University

or Buddy Broadband

Sure the names are upfront, but the actual owners are another question.

Who has control?

What Thaksin cronies are in positions to make these changes?

What on Earth are you talking about?

The instruction to block Freedom Against Censorship Thailand (FACT) website comes from this Democrat government and the MICT.

Probably from their 500 Million Baht website censorship war room, where LM is the country's top priority.

I realise my country (Australia) makes it harder for Thais to enter than Thailand does for me to enter it.

However I did find the endless visa runs a bore after 4 years in Thailand, & decided to jump ship to Cambodia, where you just pay someone off & get a year's multiple re-entry work visa without having to fill out a form. No need to ever leave the country either: renewals are all done here.

Again, not if you want to move permanently to Thailand and become a citizen. It is easier for a Thai to get an Aussie passport. Much easier.

Thailand used to be the same as Cambodia is now before around 2001. Visas could be obtained without having to leave the country. Technically illegal, but many people were doing it. Non-Immigrant visas even, and you could do a visa run without leaving either. How things have changed. They started really clamping down on this practice a couple of years later when they arrested hundreds of foreigners with dodgy stamps when they were leaving the country, throwing them in jail and deporting them.

Funnily enough, nothing happened to the well known and connected visa agents that were supplying the stamps and lying to some of the foreigners.

The Swedish guy that used to own Thaivisa was arrested and deported for sending passports to Brisbane for visas, so it was a common and relatively accepted practice back in the days.

Pre-coup, the Thaksin government blocked 2,475 websites, while as of January 2007, the government blocked 13,435 websites - an increase of a shade under 443%.

RSF Annual Report - Thailand 2007

It was instructed to be blocked by MICT yesterday. Some ISPs are slower to implement than others.

TOT are blocking it, as of yesterday.

I don't miss Thaksin's little CYBERCOP character popping up on the screen as he fought unceasingly for truth today by disallowing so many subversive sites. It was certainly more prevalent than anything I notice today.

Then the junta came along and in the few short months after the coup increased internet censorship by around 450%.

Thaksin was nowhere near as bad.

FACT (Freedom of Censorship Thailand) website has been instructed by MICT to be blocked.

Welcome to your new 'Democracy' Thailand.

Clearly mishandled, I was seeing this from Europe at the time.

And the the cat was out of the bag and egg all over Thaksin's face,

and so he the sacrificed a few snouts at the trough and reshuffled the cabinet.

Business as usual, including the under informed public living near diseased

livestock so they need not PANIC! Gave me a whole PANTLOAD o' confidence.

I determined to have a poultry free trip.

I was aware of that when I first came here and it DID affect my decision processes

in deciding to come. Not the fact bird flue was here,

I understood that it HAD to be HERE from basic regional demographics.

No, MY contraindicating issue was the LYING ABOUT IT BY THE GOVERNMENT...

So speaking as a tourist coming to Thailand for the 1st time, you are COMPLETELY wrong.

That may be your experience but the stats on tourist arrivals speak for themselves.

Again, and it is quite simple: the tourism numbers were not badly affected by the bird-flu or the Tsunami crisis, therefore the Thaksin administration, in terms of the tourism industry, handled the crisis well.

It would be interesting the statistics to compare with the PAD airport shutdown or even the military coup in 2006. This government doesn't seem to be doing too well with tourism 50% down in some parts of the country. I guess it's all down to the global recession though, huh?

In any event clearly many of those who have expressed such concern have never dealt with the majority of check-out staff in Sainsburys in the UK !! If they had then they could only draw the conclusion that the UK educational system there had failed already !!!

Most of the people working in Sainsburys were probably educated in Eastern Europe.

Example, go to a Thai restaurant anywhere in the world and your meal will be created by a Thai chef. Same with Indian, Chinese etc. etc.

Go to a French, Chinese, Italian, European retaurant here in Thailand, who is making your food..??

T.I.T

Most of the Thai restaurants in the UK are Chinese owned and run, so your argument is nonsense.

Additionally, most Indian restaurants in the UK are staffed by Bengalis, Napalese and Bangladeshis. Indians rarely do any of the cooking.

Western food in Thailand is of a horrible standard, in my experience the Thais can't even get a loaf of bread right, or crust a pie properly, let alone get anywhere close to gourmet.

So substituting used palm cooking oil for diesel in Police vehicles didn't work then?

The wonderful thing about Thaivisa archives is that it makes dishonesty a lot harder to spew:

Fact Check:

The Thai government had vehemently denied that the avian disease, which has ravaged chicken populations in other Asian countries, has also struck Thailand. Farmers and others allege the government has perpetrated a massive cover-up to protect lucrative chicken exports.

Officials had maintained that chickens at local farms have been infected by poultry cholera and diseases caused by sharp temperature drops rather than bird flu.

Shares in major Thai chicken producers plunged today. A day earlier, Japan suspended all imports of Thai chicken meat.

Thailand's biggest poultry buyer Japan ordered a import ban on Thursday and the European Union, which is the industry's second-biggest customer, said Friday it would follow suit.

Thaksin, who is battling allegations of a cover-up, denied the government had hidden evidence of bird flu and said the health ministry had already been working on the crisis before official confirmation of the disease.

"Please trust the government. It did not make an announcement in the very beginning because it did not want the public to panic," he said.

There's an entire Sub-Forum of of Bird Flu quotes if even more are needed, btw.

It's always sad to remember that when Thaksin talked his BS, it cost people their lives....

I was referring to their handling of those crisis in terms of the tourism industry.

Nothing you have posted there even remotely suggests I am wrong. Indeed, the steadfast and continuous growth of the tourism industry despite both those crisis proves I am 100% correct.

And there is the sticking point. It doesnt actually say which are the certain countries. I think if you dig a little deeper you will find that the "certain countries" are those that require a visa before they can even travel to LOS. For those countries that have 30 day visa on arrival TMK there is no such requirement. I regularly apply for a Thai visa when I am out of LOS but not in the UK. I use my second passport (which has all my Thai Visa's and have done this in UK, Australia and Singapore, while I was not physically present in those countries.

Also I would respectfully submit that your link is to a requirement posted on a website, not to an actual law that is on the books.

regards

Freddie

The website is the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs criteria for visa application.

Sending your passport overseas to obtain visas while you are not present in that country is against Thai law. I can assure you the law is quite clear about visa application.

Having said that I think it is still A LOT easier for Westerners to move to Thailand than it is for Asians to move to the West.

Tourists and temporary residents yes.

But not to become permanent residents, become citizens and have equal rights.

There are quotas of maximum 100 per nationality allowed to become permanent residents in Thailand each year, far less for citizenship as I mentioned before.