lee68

This is utterly disgusting. What a repugnant display of the lack of justice in this society.

No, little miss sunshine, it wasn't an "accident". It may have been unintentional, but it was a crime caused by your extreme negligence. Trying to shrug off responsibility for the deaths of 9 people as an "accident" is truly an insult to their memories.

So much for Nisa's theories that this girl is suffering. This girl needs to do hard time. She clearly has no remorse.

Agree with you 100% on this one. I can bet my bottom dollar if it was a farang or a piss poor issan farmer in an accident like this, and the victims were from a 'higher class' you'd see a completely different spin on the whole story.

Her actions killed nine people, Don't defend her. End of story

That German guy that killed the Thai on the motorbike in pattaya went straight to jail.and yes he was drunk and deserved it,

A theory from an armchair expert:

Fact - someone gave the car keys to a 16-year-old, a criminal act.

Fact - the driver, with her adult sister as passenger decides to drive on the expressway

Fact - the car becomes very close to the rear of the van at expressway speed

Surmise - something distracts the driver (mobile phone rings?) as the van either ceases to accelerate or slows

Surmise - as the small gap between vehicles closes rapidly one or other sister attempts a radical steering manouver to avoid collision.

Fact - impact occurs and both vehicles begin to spin, with fatal consequences.

The rest is history, except of course the 3rd party red (car) herring, not seen on video. Where did the red paint come from? With a 16-year-old driving, its quite possible this is not her 1st accident.

There seems to have been no mention of the older sister in the car since day 1,the media seem to of forgotten about her,why?

here here

If law is introduced to make seatbelts mandatory on coaches, and these type of minibus, then the deaths of these unfortunate people will have brought about a change that in time could save thousands of lives........surely this is where we should be using any influence we feel we may have. To raise some good from this carnage.

and maybe the number of lives saved could be vastly increased by getting the under-age drivers and riders off the road.

I see a glimmer of hope for the young lady who caused the accident. She has a mother who has a lot of courage and a fair amount of compassion.

All i see is somebody trying to buy there way out of the problem!. than style!

The past few days here in CM the traffic has increased due to the influx for the holidays, etc. Many of the vehicle drivers probably learned to navigate Thai roads on motorcycles and thus apparently bring that experience/thinking with them when the get behind the wheel. You watch how they will cut off or in front of other vehicles, it seems to indicate motorcycle mentality.

If you keep these thoughts and drive defensively as well as being 'scared of having a accident' you might have a chance. That is until the blunder head that you do not expect gets you. Drugged up, pissed sightless, falls asleep, and those truckers who say watch out for me as I am the biggest. Dont forget those who due to their perceived status expect the rest of us to get out of their way.

We used to refer to tonight as amateur night, but Thailand seems to have a very extended time peroid for people to show their arse and get out in traffic.

Chiang mai is terrible at the moment.all these idiots up from Bangkok who seem to have no driving skills whatsoever and are racing round the countryside,trying to get the whole tour in,in 3 days,with complete disregard to anybody else using the road.and yes these car drivers do seem to think they are driving motorcycles.i have driven here for 16 years and you seem to develop a six sense when on the roads,you just know that the idiot in front is going to do something pretty stupid.I saw a young Thai women the other day,she was on the phone and also had a tv on the dashboard,talk about multitasking, and was all over the road,I hit the horn to get past her,and what a dirty look i got,she must have missed something on the tv.anybody using a phone in a car should be jailed., Thais are very bad drivers and using a phone as well is just Russian roulette in a car,at the expense of some other poor sod doing nothing wrong.

"They also work as guides and taxi drivers. More than that, they give wrong information to Russian tourists. They tell them not to use Thai tuk-tuks or taxis, or any service provided by Thai people," he said.

Well it would appear that they are giving correct advice.

Wonder how many Thai tour operators/guides can actually speak Russian fluently enough to be of use anyway.

yes the correct information is not to use tuk tuks they are scum!

they should arrest the suppliers not the users!

It appears they did arrest a few dealers, unless 30,000 tablets and 4 kikos of heroin was for personal use.

Well it is Christmas and New Years just round the corner.

yes and the bib need there new years bonus!

I regularly travel that road and agree with much of what has been said.

It is a potential death trap and I never drive it at night. Leave earlier or stay over but I won't take my chances on there with night falling.

Thais are not trained in driving. Any driving test applied in Thailand is woefully inadequate and consider this; we are led to believe that 3 professional drivers were involved in this accident. I haven't read subsequent versions of this article but it says 5 bus passengers died and then fails to mention any bus being involved in the 5 vehicle pile up. In fact of 5 vehicles it accounts for 4 only.

I'm left to guess the rest.

And if it was an accident waiting to happen again as there was inadequate safety measures, signage, warnings and Thai rubber neckers then ....... welcome to Thailand.

Thais also notoriously tail-gate. They are impatient drivers who speed up behind you to sit on your bumper, merely feet off it, and wait for you to move over. They fail to signal, they fail to use their mirrors. Also, they inevitably fail to apply the mirror - signal - manouvre - strategy. They can not take bends safely as they either slow causing traffic to compact or they most usually drift dangerously off line. Yet in a straight line they will floor any pick up to the max.

The sight of a 'fast' car sends them crazy. The SUV BMV passed me yesterday followed by a Hinda Accord chasing hell bent after it. then it was whacky racers time as we had 2 pick-ups foot to the floor and an Altis. The only things missing were some numbers on the doors. Public road and private madness.

The fun and games going over the 304 mountains has to be experienced to be believed. Only overtake on a blind bend seems to be the way of thinking. There are hugely overladen trucks at crawl speed, and sometimes standing still, around blind bends. In contrast there are saloons flying at break neck speed past every other vehicle and then there are the slower pick-ups trying to overtake.

It is a recipe for disaster. It does cause disasters.

But that is Thailand. Every law and none applied.

And I will add this. My own driving skills far outstrip any Thai driver I have ever encountered. Be objective, as I am when I say that I have never seen a good Thai driver. I have seen only what I would call examples of normal safe driving for the road conditions. That's it at best.

And I, like many of you, spend my time behind the wheel driving defensively due to the inadequacy of the Thais.

And there is a myriad of awful, hopeless, clueless, dangerous driving to be seen anywhere. They don't know how to join or leave traffic safely. They stop anywhere without indication. God help you when they reverse as you best have a good book to read. And then there is the rush hour. Every hour it seems of everyday as they are always either in a hurry or doing 50 kph on a single lane. Farm trucks have no lights. Motorbikes have no lights but do have 3, 4 or 5 passengers. Helmets. Pardon me? Wroing way, u-turns and cutting across.

Then we see the result.

Cranage is a common sight.

I remember one morning were passed by an awfully driven speeding gold coloured pick-up on that very road. Sheer madness is the only way to describe the speeding and arratic driving. Later we were halted by a massive queue of traffic as an aciident had occurred at a set of traffc lights.

There, dead and hanging half in and half out of his pick-up and pinned in the mangled wreckage was the driver of the gold pick-up.

And I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

Speed costs lives. So too do under qualified drivers and they are the ones on the roads in Thailand.

I was recently, travelling with a thai freind of mine,from chaing mai to phuket.he had lived and driven in Germany for 16 years.It was a nightmare,he overtook and undertook and went through every red light we encountered.I said to him do you do this in Germany,and he said no of course not,so i said why do you do it here?,his reply was because you can,this is thai style.I flew home from phuket,never again. .

I find it amusing the amount of people who do have helmets and only put them on their heads as they pass a policeman.... soon as they are past the helmet is back off the head into the front basket.

I find it amusing when police is directing foot traffic in the morning in front of schools but everyone drives by them with out a helmet.

I guess that is not their job right now.

RIGHT ! This really makes me angry because i know they MOSTLY stop me when i drive my bike and wear my helmet, but they always try to find any reason to get money out of my pockets. And this happens to many farangs while those youngsters drive and race before the police's nose, without helmet or driving license, not even 13 or 14 years old ! THIS MAKES ME ANGRY !!

Where is the responsibillity of the government, the police, the school heads and teachers...? It's all ONE bunch of apes who don't give a shit !!

The police cant prosecute these young kids of 13-14 because they don't have a licence.you have to be 15 in the kingdom to have one.if you don't have a licence,they cant give you a ticket(unless your a foreigner).I found out the hard way when a 13yrd girl ran a set of lights straight into the side of my car,thankfully she suffered only cuts and bruises but put a big hole in my door.we went to the police station and i asked if they were going to fine her and who was going to pay for the damage,the answer was,she is a minor and not old enough to have a licence so no charges could be made,and for me to sort it out with my insurance company myself.I then asked why is a 13yrd girl riding a motorbike,the answer was many many and thats the law.

I do not think any of the helmets sold in Thailand would pass even i safety regulation in Oz and few other countries.

There are helmets available that meet international safety standards but most are priced well out of the average Thai's budget.

As for this new law, what a fookin joke, I would like to see the stats of helmetless people killed within government zones versus those killed outside of government zones.

What? So a 50,000 baht motorbike is within their budget but not a decent helmet? I think your argument is flawed.

What is the issue is the Thai's dissregard for safety issues. I live in a soi with a kindergarden on it. Most parents

pick their kids up on motorbikes and noone wears a helmet even though they could easily walk. home It comes down to selfishness, laziness and not caring

maybe part of Thai culture?

When a new motorbike is purchased a helmet should go with it. Not to say it will be work or people will wear it, but.................

Where I come from if a person gets his helmet broken in an accident and it saves his life he gets a new AVG from local donations through a radio station.

i have bought 7 new motorbikes in my years here in Thailand,And i have revived a free helmet with everyone.they were all Honda,but i think most company's give you one as part of the deal.they are normally very cheap ones,but you still get one.

Quite a few in phuket to a couple of years ago.

Weren't a couple of the well known Irish pubs in BKK financed by the boiler room scams?

Sad to be sure... May the young couple rest in peace...

But more important, who will pay the damages for the jet ski and loss of use while it is being repaired?

yes the scumbag operators will be gutted,but im sure they will get something back.scum

I have been swimming here for 20 years, must have missed something... I bet it's much more dangerous to cross the street

To true,rather take me chances with the jellyfish than cross a main road here!

theres gas!

Burma - an entire nation of people suppressed under tyrannical rule.

Iraq ten years ago - an entire nation of people suppressed under tyrannical rule.

The latter merits a full scale invasion and total regime change by outside forces. The former gets a couple of soundbites each time they hold a rigged election. Welcome to the world.

Let's consider that, why should there be a different approach??

Oh yes there are no massive oil reserves in Burma

Burma - an entire nation of people suppressed under tyrannical rule.

Iraq ten years ago - an entire nation of people suppressed under tyrannical rule.

The latter merits a full scale invasion and total regime change by outside forces. The former gets a couple of soundbites each time they hold a rigged election. Welcome to the world.

That won't happen because there is nothing for the USA to gain. What natural resources does Burma have for the US. Nothing, zip, Nil. Human rights mean little to the US unless they can reap the spoils of war. Sadly Burma will plod along as a 3rd world country for another 100 yrs or so.

They have oil and gas.but the americans, as said before will not step on chinas toes.

I hate 711's when you go in 1 poor bast*rd is doing all the work while 5 of them are picking their noses and sending text messages - idiots

that is exactly my 7-11

well ive lived her for 6 years,and i like the place.i previously lived in patong beach,so its like a breath of fresh air compared to that.plus the local people are much nicer.

Seems the mini vans have a license to kill, they are always driving like hel_l, of course trying to get to Nong Kai or where ever. It must go with the job, tight time table, and if a long run, just have some more red bull. But what about the baht buses that are used to carry the school children? I see them so over loaded, that they have to hit the breaks, before the front wheels touch ground. As I see it, Thai dont care anything about safety, if I mention to my TGF about vans driving fast or overloaded baht buses, she has no idea what im talking about. It just doesnt register in their heads. I guess if they really knew how to drive, then being macho could be accepted, but you can already see the 10 year olds racing on their bikes, not old enough for sex, but old enough to kill someone! Someone said that even with police, the US has so many accidents, well I can guarantee you that its far less than Thailand, just check the stats! I would even guess that all the accidents in Thailand are not always included in the stats.

they don't show it.the kids were i live are driving around at 10,and have no sense at all road or anything else

i

It's not just BKK. A little while back, here in Chiang Mai, I saw a school van, loaded with kids, pull out in a NO PASSING ZONE, and try to pass 4 other cars. Fortunately they were able to squeeze in before the oncoming traffic plowed into them.

i see it every morning taking my son to school here in chaing mai.words cant describe the stupidity of the people here driving motorbikes and cars.its so sad Thais have no driving skills whatsoever.

It's not just BKK. A little while back, here in Chiang Mai, I saw a school van, loaded with kids, pull out in a NO PASSING ZONE, and try to pass 4 other cars. Fortunately they were able to squeeze in before the oncoming traffic plowed into them.

Ive been driving here for 15 years and it will never get better.ive done the test here 2 times one time in phuket and one time in chaing mai and its a farce.i have been in cars with well educated Thai people who have lived and driven abroad.but when they are back here they drive like idiots,i talk to them and they say,we drive thai style.so how do you explain that.thats scary.

Why? would you buy an unregistered bike,then go through all the process of getting a dodgy book and worrying about it.There is a better choice now in Thailand,than ever before of legal big bikes with green books. I've just bought a Kawasaki er6n all legal with green book in my name and a 2 year warranty.Ok not everybody wants to buy a Kawasaki but there are plenty of other makes street legal.

Plenty ??? Really ??

So lets subtract anything over half a mil.. And remove 2 pot Kwakers from the equation..

Now remind me of the plenty ?? those would be ??

Theres 100's of big bikes, in the 100 - 300 range, of all ages and conditions.. But the books become the issue.

Yes i will give you that,i would of liked a triumph but the half mil bracket was more than i wanted to pay,and i did look at some of the other older ones in the range and they either didnt have a book or were very dodgy.

FWIW, my Steed was legally registered in Nonthaburi, bought in Bangkok, and re-registered in my name down south in NST with no problems. I was even offered my choice of number plate.

My 1980ish Yamaha XJ650 Special is still being used by a Thai pal in NST, registered in NST, and the original book has been on sale in Bangkok. As yet, no takers...

Hi Guy's

I am considering buying my first 2nd hand bike in LOS (others have been new) can anyone tell me the procedure, i am planning to take a trip to view and ride the bike and if it stacks up the owner has agreed to go to the transport office with me to change the name, before i hand over any cash.

My question is, the bike is in Tak and i live in Chiang Rai, at the transport office in Tak will they simple add my name to the green book and then i will have to go to the transport office in CR to get a plate or can i do the whole thing in Tak. Also apart from a letter of residence what other stuff will i need to take apart from cash that is?

Thanks in advance.

If you have all the correct paperwork,they will put it in your name in tak,then you just take it up to chaing rai and apply for the plates there.And don't hand any money over until they match the book and the bike together.your going to call me stupid but make sure you take your passport with you,i recently bought a 2nd hand bike in chaing mai and the guy selling it didn't bring his passport,no big problem just a few hours wait while he had to go and get it from his bank.If its thai they only need id card and house papers.

Why? would you buy an unregistered bike,then go through all the process of getting a dodgy book and worrying about it.There is a better choice now in Thailand,than ever before of legal big bikes with green books. I've just bought a Kawasaki er6n all legal with green book in my name and a 2 year warranty.Ok not everybody wants to buy a Kawasaki but there are plenty of other makes street legal.

Of course living in Bang Tao you dont experience this day in day out.. so its fair that you dont know.

You've hit the nail on the head mate. We should all be making decisions as to what's best for us and what is most likely to make us happy. It seems as if a lot of people aren't very good at this

Totally agreed.. We are the lucky ones, who control our own destiny... And if we feel the crime and other aspects are making the island less appealing than anywhere else, its within our power to change it. Something I am doing.

However that doesnt mean your not allowed an opinion on the negative aspects. it just means you must learn to minimize them in your life.

I go to Patong regularly, and as you mentioned there is ample parking in Jungceylon, so what's the issue? I know where I can park, I know how to treat certain people, who to avoid completely and as aresult live a very grief free life.

Patong has been my main town for 9 years, I have lived in satellite villages for a few of those years but its always been my 'hub'

(now aint that Thai marketing 101) for basic goods and services. So that changes to the town, both good and bad have been visible to me, in a way they probably are not to someone living in Nai Harn or Surin.

So I can park in Jungceylon (but not at night) thats great, if I want to go to jungceylon.. But what about the whole rest of town ?? How about everywhere else ?? Hence you keep a bike too, with the added risks of a bike, simply because a car isnt practical (this was one issue for my mum, bikes were intimidating cars impractical).

Going back a bunch of years a buddy got a new fortuna, being pleased with it and new he was trying to use it day to day. He parked over from the offshore in front of what is now the Nanai jungle sauna of recently passed Nick. This was not in front of the MB taxi stand, it was on a normal road, legally parked.. They told him to move it, he speaks fluent Thai and asked them why, its not bothering them, its not in front of them.. They wanted it moved.. So he shifted it a further 5m or so.. Now the car is maybe 8 or 10m away from them. They however decided it was obscuring their view of the road, went and keyed it all round and spiked 2 of the tyres on the non visible side. Because he parked 10m away.. Because it was 'in their view'.. Thats day to day car use in Patong.

I understand that it's different for people who work and pay taxes, but to me that is still not a valid arguement. It's your responsibility to know what you need to know about the place you live and work before you go there, and if it doesn't fit with you, you go somewhere else. I find it very strange that someone like yourself is still harping on about equal rights for tax payers. It has never been and never will, why keep beating yourself up over it instead of accepting the way it is and always will be.

I am not harping on.. I know thats how it is, and accept it.. But accepting it and agreeing with it, are not the same. I do think its basically unfair. You were the one who brought up equal rights etc and I just said that I think its unfair. Yes if someones resident, and pays taxes, has a family etc, they should have equal rights, equal rights to park in a space and use public roads. The whole 'this my country, you.. farang.. move' gets a bit old, especially when its coming from some non island Thai who may have been there a few months trying to get rich quick on the back of the same farang economy.

Your favourite argument of how things are getting worse all the time to me is a weak argument as well. I've spent a lot of time here as well although probably nowhere near as much as you, and to be honest I haven't really noticed any changes other than new buildings and roads etc but the way I live my life, adapting to my surroundings, keeping myself to myself, avoiding things likely to make me angry, then to be honest the amount of tuk tuks could double every week and I wouldn't even notice.

Well if you havent noticed changes, Bang Tao must be nice and peaceful, well done !! The last statement that they could double weekly and you wouldnt notice is of course rubbish.. Put double and then double, unemployed males around, and watch crime rocket (even more).

This year or 2 I have seen an exodus of long term expats at a rate I hadnt seen ever before, and those are not expats leaving for cheaper places they are cashed up guys trying to find a place more peaceful and safer. 2 of them have even packed up leaving empty houses unsold simply to get away. Now if thats really the case, I wonder why they are so keen to leave ??

I lived and ran a buisness for 12 years in patong and in the late 90s it was good.in 96-98 you couldn't get a tuk tuk to go up nanai road after dark.i sold out 6 years ago and moved to chaing mai.i was back in patong last week after a 5 year absence,to see friends,and all i can say is i made the right decision to move.chaing mai is by no way perfect (driving skills are just as bad if not worse than phuket) but its a better pace of life.but its changing to with more and more moo banns being built and the city expanding every year.well at least its nice for now.

Is it april the first already?