mauGR1

Interesting post, right here, right now is also some state of mind which is recommended by both Buddhists and real Christians ( going to church on Sunday, or being born in a Christian country doesn't make one a real Christian) as a very useful meditation. Although it's not easy being " here and now " all the time, it's a good exercise, and as they say, practice makes perfect. As for the rest of your post, there are a few debatable concepts, which in fact are the big questions one faces in life. When we talk about freedom, imho, we should accept that the feeling of freedom is relative to a previous state of slavery.. for example, one may feel freedom after ending a toxic relationship, or after finishing a day of hard work, or being at peace in the forest after many days in the city. It's ok, but it's temporary and relative. I could try to say what's absolute freedom, but i think i have a long way to go before i can achieve it, perhaps more than one life. As for feeling worthless, or very important, those are also extreme states of mind which are relative and thus temporary. When i feel good, i know it's temporary, the same when i feel bad, and both feelings are very useful to understand who am i . Not sure i answered your question though.

Most like to talk, few want to listen. Imho, if one truly searches for knowledge and wisdom, both are necessary.

Glad to hear that, but me saying " God at least exists in the imagination of billions of people " was intended as a reply to those who firmly deny, and even ridicule and despise God's existence. I also can provide plenty of evidence of the existence of God, but i know already that my thoughts would meet a deaf ear in the majority of the cases. Although i don't know the bible very well, i appreciate your knowledge and interpretation of it.

The point is, God exists in the imagination of billions of people, so, unless you're saying that imagination doesn't exist, God exists. ????

This questions are very legitimate, and don't necessarily imply the absence of God. You might be surprised, but in fact, when a certain level of consciousness is achieved, we are the judges of ourselves, so in fact it's our purest essence which decides when and where and how to rebirth, according to our wish to develop into better beings. This is also the view of esoteric christianity. Buddha, intended as a Avatar of Vishnu, same as Jesus , are free from the cycle of incarnations , afaik, yet it's in their power to incarnate physically when the moment is right. To conclude, the separation between the physical worlds and the spiritual worlds is clear cut in our human minds, when in fact everything is very much connected.

I answer this condition first, as i believe God exists. It's in our abilities to stop the cycle of incarnations. As Jesus put it clearly " who gives his life for me, will live forever ". Pls note, Jesus, imho is the earthly incarnation of " what is good and true". Another point, when we are born in this world, we "start from scratch " in the physical world, but we carry with us our spiritual development. Another point, between death and rebirth, our souls are connected with the spirit, and there are no lies and deception up there. As i said in previous posts, the state of sleep, including the dreams, can be compared to a little death, so imho we can learn a lot about death and rebirth by comparing the state of sleep to the state of wake. I stop here for now, as i don't even know if you're really interested in this discussion, and of course you're welcome to express your point of view.

Yes, it was the same for me for years ! .. but in recent times, the whole concept of freedom of speech has become a joke, tbh. Obviously, as humans, communication with other humans is most important for keeping ourselves in check, so imho internet is better than nothing.

Well, i would say that in the "Thailand crowd " , discussing the existence of God is pretty rare. In my neighborhood, i mean in real life, there is only 1 guy which i have been discussing spiritual things with, and yet i don't really like him ????

Lol, i remember you and others, saying they quit the thread, then, after a while, coming back again. Of course i was happy to see you come back, and maybe @Tippaporn will be back too.

Right, but I want to add that life is confusing in these days, and my generation, after ww2, has been indoctrinated to search happiness in materialism. Even talking about God raises eyebrows these days. Let's be honest, would you enter a bar, or even a private room with friends, acquaintances and strangers, and start talking about God ? I feel lucky already to be able to discuss such things on a forum. So, thanks again for your great contributions, your words resonate with my perception of reality.

Thanks for the heartfelt reply. Of course i apologize if sometimes i appear to be blunt, but it's just for the sake of clarity and brevity, and i know that you agree on the intellectual honesty, which is needed for a constructive debate. That said, while it's true that we can influence, and even shape reality, according to our will, it's also true that there are many other powerful forces which from the outside , and sometimes from the inside, influence and determine our material lives and our spiritual paths. So, examining those forces is a good starting point for understanding of who we are.

Thanks, and enjoy your next merry go round ????

Ok, but apart from your opinion on the church, (i guess you mean church as the institution) Do you think there's a supernatural intelligent design in the universe and its laws?

Uhm, i am surprised to hear such confusion, after 3 years of this thread. As a last attempt to explain a concept, as i think that you are focusing too much on your troubles.. I have troubles too !! Everybody has ! Well, when i feel really desperate, about myself and everything, i pretend to sit on the moon, and look at the earth. What i see is a shining ball, which predominant color is blue etc. I cannot see humans, but i know they are there, in the billions. So small, yet everyone feeling very important. They are like bacteria , in a slightly bigger picture. Normally this little exercise helps me to get some perspective.

Church is just a building, or an institution, if you don't like, just don't bother. I hope it doesn't sound offensive to you, but you and billions of people, including myself, have been brainwashed to identify with our physical bodies. If you want to know who you are, perhaps it's time you start to ask yourself some question. Hint: a physical body is a vehicle, our true essence is much more complex.

That's what you think, if that's what makes you at peace with yourself, who i am to tell you that your thoughts are incorrect?

Nope, thoughts and feelings, which give shape to our existence, are not material, yet they exist.

Although words can be inadequate to describe spiritual realities, i think that @Tippaporn is right, we create our own reality. According to our karma and our wishes, we choose our environment, our family, our country, our body etc. Right now, through our thoughts, feelings etc, we are creating other realities, for ourselves and for what surrounds us. Wisdom comes from pain, and how we deal with pain, but pain will disappear, and the wisdom you achieve will stay with you. I don't believe in the dichotomy heaven/hell, but i believe in cycles of multiple incarnations, until we learn our lessons.

I take your point too, and your contribution is appreciated. Yet, i think that debate is useful, as in any debate we have the chance to test the validity, or lack of validity, of our opinions. In other words, if one has to adopt a scientific method to understand reality, one has to listen to all the opinions available, even the opinions which we don't like. In the same way, a botanical scientist has to examine all the species, and not just those which are beautiful or useful.

Very agreeable post, which i quote entirely. But, but, the fear to offend or being offended should not deter us from discussing the things which really matter. As in Plato's cave metaphor, the ones who have seen the light, have a moral duty to try to wake up the ones who are in the darkness, even if aware of the disbelief and scorn and hostility which they are going to meet.

This question is one of the best weapons of the agnostics. If God is perfect, why torture the innocent? We have, i think, to be aware that life is tough, and we have to see the bad to understand what is good. That's life, like it or not. We have also the choice to be part of the problem or part of the solution. While complaining about the state of the world is legitimate, we should also be grateful for what we have. A true Spiritual Science is an attempt, imho, to improve, little step by little step, one's consciousness, hoping to improve the physical world as well.

Very well said. I can say that I've been through these thoughts a few times, and it's not easy to be perfect all the time. Sometimes being kind and humble works well, sometimes not. In some case, i was encouraging a certain poster to keep on posting, only to get more nonsense, platitudes, misunderstandings and personal attacks in exchange, just for trying to be a nice guy. Saying what i really think is better imho, even at the risk of hurting others and myself, there are already too many mild-mannered liars on this planet, what good are they doing? After all, wisdom comes from pain. So, for what is worth, thanks again for your great contribution to this thread.

Many hide behind ideology or religion to act like criminals, but ideologies, right or wrong, don't kill people by themselves.

Why irrelevant ? I think that it's very interesting to know what people believe. And the fact that apparently people need to believe something.

All is perfect then, everyone is happy. ⁰