mauGR1

Apparently that's what "they" are trying to do, more or less subtly ????

While i have to admit that i have been feeling that way, there's something i have to say about it. This time, i will call God " the higher self". (Sorry for those who think that higher and lower don't exist) The higher self is everywhere, in the flowers, in the edible plants, in the cute birds and the blue sky, but also in the tsunamis, in the poisonous insects, and in the cruelty of the man. If a man happens to be merciful, he makes the mercy of the higher self visible in this world. Perhaps i could complain about the general lack of mercy in this world, but then, i could also be grateful for the merciful folks out there. So, to say that " God is not merciful " is not exactly correct imho.

Sure, many people in fact have paid a high price for telling the truth as it is. Yet, most of the people i talk to, are so deeply involved with their materialistic needs, that they don't even want to discuss it.

There were a few posts about Bob Dylan the other day, so here's some lyric which impressed me when i was an almost innocent teen :" .. and if my thoughtdreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine.." so I'm not sure what i can say more ????

I was not just referring to the human society, and not even just to the physical reality. I was referring to hierarchy on every plane of existence, including the planes invisible to us. What you say makes sense on the physical plane, but a person who looks very weak physically, may be higher, or stronger in the hierarchy of spiritual development.

Does the man creates hierarchy, or is hierarchy already there, with or without the man ? It reminds me of the question, was the egg before the chicken, or vice versa.. My answer would be, they exist at the same moment, as time itself appears to be real in the physical world, but doesn't necessarily exist not in the same way, in more subtle realities. ( everyone who understands what I'm trying to say' deserves a medal, Lol)

As usual, i partly agree with your conclusions, i think that a hierarchy exists, but i fully agree with the intent of exploring what we call " consciousness ". Thanks for the thought provoking posts though, and thanks extended to the other valuable posters of this thread too . ( i guess you know who you are )

Hope you'll feel better soon, don't be sad ????

Wrong again. Actually you don't even know if you want or you don't want to discuss the existence of God. That's worrying, perhaps you may try to make peace with yourself ???? Here, I'll help, what are your arguments to deny the existence of God?

I'm not offended at all, but i guess you're not answering my question. Up to you ????

Ok, and what's your plan to make yourself look " less foolish"? .. or do you think that calling other people names is enough?

That's fair enough, so if i decide to deceive myself in believing in the existence of intelligence and, to various degrees, consciousness, in all the visible and invisible life in the universe, where's the harm in that ?

I was a big fan. While his music can be quite often described as ordinary, some of his lyrics, from his early years, are quite inspiring and sometimes even terrifying. If one's not American though, one may need a slang translator.

If there's something sensible in those words, it must be carefully hidden ????

Enlightenment is temporary, it happens to anyone, when the dual judgement is suspended, and the energy of the universe is free to flow. I believe there are few, however,who can manage, through practice, to live in a state of constant enlightenment. I've probably never met anyone who has achieved that so far, but i think it's quite possible, especially when one is fed up with the vanity and hypocrisy which pervades the human society.

Perhaps i do, but it would be only speculation. Perhaps living the present moment is more important, it's so exciting nowadays to find a grain of truth in the middle of so many lies.

Perhaps the increased quantity of informations available in modern times is actually proving my point, but let's agree to disagree again ????

It's funny that you call that "propaganda" without any evidence of what Buddha truly experienced in his meditation. I guess that in the modern world, where almost everything is propaganda, it's easy to accuse the ancient folks of being liars or manipulators. Perhaps they didn't have great technology in Buddha's times, yet my overall impression is that there were less lies and deceptions in comparison to modern times. As you probably know, Buddha is regarded as an avatar of Vishnu in the Hindu tradition, and like Jesus in the west, was promoting freedom from the bigotry of organized religion.

In theory everything is just an illusion, but i guess that to reconcile that perception/opinion with the reality we perceive thru our physical senses is not the easiest job in the world.

Yes, i agree that sharing experiences is most important, and surely one of the reasons why i like these kinds of conversation. Animals, plants and minerals are great teachers too ! I believe that the connection with nature which you're talking about is not too difficult to achieve in the right place, at the right time and with the right attitude, or even better with no attitude at all.

Surely there's a battle going on, perhaps it's part of life, and it will never end.

I don't know what do you mean for "human code". As for "what is spirituality ' ,I'd bet you'd get as many answers as any human being on this planet. As far as i know, everything we perceive as material, is a manifestation of the spirit, and that includes animals, plants and minerals, and from the biggest star to the tiniest of atoms.

Just to make things clear, the indisputable fact that animals are intelligent, is not in contradiction with the observation that animals' intelligence originates from a "group soul". In the same way, Theosophists and Anthroposophists are not disputing the achievements of natural science, but try to integrate it with a spiritual point of view.

I had to google "animal consensus", and yes, of course animals are intelligent and conscious to various degrees. Yes, I'd guess a soul has to live many lives to achieve freedom from the cycle of incarnations. In some way, every little action of today, reflects the past and creates the future. Some say that past and future don't really exist, but an infinite present moment exists, and that concept makes me think ???? it seems true, but hard to grasp.

Most of those " bad people " are not aware of " being bad", they are just blinded by focusing on the material world and their egotistical goals. It's true that everyone is suffering in one way or another, even those who seem to be the most fortunate, but, i speak for myself here, sufferings have made me explore and expand my consciousness. Joy and sorrow are 2 polarities, and i believe there are lots to learn from both.