mauGR1

This is a quite realistic view of the facts imho. Contagious diseases brought from Europe seem to have been determining the sad fate of the indigenous. Yet some posters seem to think that armies of blood thirsty priests wiped out the indigenous population of south and central americas while singing the praise of the lord, and thus depicting the whole concept of christianity as an evil cult.

Ok, i have to admit that sometimes i take the discussion too seriously , and i end up expecting too much in terms of unbiased knowledge and open-mindedness. My fault. Of course i respect your opinion and your experience, if you play fair. When you bark at the wrong tree i beg to differ though. I dislike fanatics too, while ideologies deserve to be fairly discussed, and as for idiots, well, who decides who is an idiot ? It's subjective, don't you think? Some people believe that animals, in many ways, are better than humans, yet you won't let your dog in charge of your finances, would you ?

Well, we may not always see eye to eye, but I appreciate in this case your thoughtful posts. Yep, apparently much of the old testament was taken by the Jews from the older civilizations of the fertile crescent, from which the script originated, as well as the transition from a hunter-gatherer society to a agricultural and subsequent industrial society. I see religion, in a broad way, as a search for equality and justice which is wired into the human beings, together with less noble impulses. Humanism is consequential of the modern religions like christianity and buddhism. As for the benefits of science, well, it depends unfortunately from who is paying the scientists, as we can see nowadays, unless one's eyes are shut by propaganda. Again, nothing new under the sun. Looking forward for your next contributions.

No, it's not. Thanks for the geography lesson. I'm sorry to say that, but imho your hate for religion is obfuscating your judgement, making it hard for you to think clearly. Whatever makes you happy ????

Yes, ideologies (you forgot democracy) have been, and are used to justify any kind of atrocities and war crimes, thanks for stating the obvious. Of course you blame ideologies, but ideas cannot hold guns and knives, do they ? So what's your solution, perhaps let all humans have lobotomy as soon as they are born ?

Are you telling me that Spanish monks and priests exterminated the indigenous population of america ? If so, where did you read that ? Strange fantasies you have????

Nobody disputes your facts, but there's something called perspective. War, human trafficking and drugs are very profitable businesses too, but for some reason you don't seem very indignant about it. How is that ? I may be wrong, but i never heard about monks and priests carpet bombing civilians or kill entire populations, did you ?

I share your interest in every kind of history, and as you put it very well, we have to listen to every side of the story to understand the laws of nature and humans' relationship with them...possibly without prejudice.

All over the world, in all societies, most people are living in a sort of materialistic bubble, and most people find it perfectly normal and healthy. To find something to live for beyond the material gratification can be a challenge sometimes, but it's worth every little effort imho.

Interesting, some days i agree with you, most days i am sure that all dreams will become real, soon or later.

That's quite correct, but only in theory. Here's a paradox for you: A good leader should serve the people, so is he a leader or a servant ?

Dancing is good for health, and yes, i agree that many religious organizations are corrupt. If you say that all are corrupt, you surely have some detailed inside information that i don't, or perhaps you're just lying. Well, i repeat, as i can see you have problems understanding, religion and organized religion are 2 different concepts. Both include complex realities, more or less obvious, which only a very shallow person can dismiss in 3 words. Jesus Christ has showed his disdain for corrupt priests more than once, as documented, and perhaps that was the main reason he was persecuted. I can assure you that not all Christians, or Buddhists or Muslims are dumb hypocrites, and of course the same goes for atheists and agnostics. ????

Well, i don't know about mother Teresa, who is imho a controversial character. Besides that, of course everyone knows that there's a lot of corruption in the high spheres of organized religion. And other organizations.. Yet, i don't think it would be fair to blame Jesus Christ for that, do you? When I say that "I blame the people ", the "people " obviously includes those at the top of corrupt organizations. Is that clear ? So, in fact there is no real controversy, it's just semantics.

Yes, i agree. Although many don't like to be controlled, i can somehow understand the reasons of those who are in power.

Nowadays it's a fashion to blame religion for everything wrong in the world. People feel smart for hating religion, they think they are free and open minded. I hate this fashion, it stinks of comformism ????

No, i am not unaware, but i don't blame the religion for the crimes, I blame the people who commit the crimes, while hiding behind the religion or other ideals. As far as i know, the majority of crimes is committed because of greed and thirst for power.

Yes, that makes sense to me, and by now it should be clear that I'm not imposing anything to anyone. Btw, i would also invite you and others who apparently hate religion/s to separate opinions from dogmas, ignorant superstitions from common sense, and spirituality from empty rituals. In other words, not all atheists are enlightened, and not all believers are dumb.

The universe and our perception of it are mysterious indeed. Many scientific "truths " of today will be dismissed in the future as flawed or partially flawed, and i think you know it very well. So better not tell fairy tales about the infallibility of science, coz you sound like a religious fanatic.????

Few years ago i would have never thought that i would have been defending religion, but recently I've changed my mind. Religion must not be intolerance, but moral values for everyone to live in peace, and hopefully prosperity and even happiness. But i am still against any kind of fanaticism, so let's not "throw the baby with the dirty water", because it seems that those who condemn religion are just as intolerant as the average believer. In the end, it's up to you what you believe.

Yes, if one dares to think, it's obvious that we are living in a sort of " simulation ". " illusion " is another word that has been used since time immemorial to describe the material world and our relationship with it. The material world is a sort of mirror which reflects the work of realities that are not so easily perceived, but existing nonetheless. Nothing new under the sun.

Ok, but while your data suggest that it's impossible for humans, at the moment, to visit other solar systems, don't forget that the history of flying machines is just about 120 years old, which is nothing in the big picture. If there are aliens able to travel those enormous distances, i wouldn't expect them to use metal ships fuelled by kerosene, i would expect them to have a better technology. Of course this is just speculation.

Thanks for saying that, actually I'm trying my best to be short and clear, although i admit that i can be misunderstood quite often, if not even plainly wrong. It's possible, as some people here seem to think, that humans are the pinnacle of all knowledge, and the center of the universe, but in my opinion that's very unlikely.

Ok, i agree with what you say here. In fact, we can only try, sometimes without success, to describe reality with words. My point is very simple, there cannot be memory without consciousness. .. and, consciousness doesn't belong only to humans, we are just part of it.

Are you saying that genetic memory is unconscious? The way I see it, there can be no memory without consciousness. Or are you suggesting that consciousness can be unconscious?

Agree, and it's reasonable imho to assume that there are hierarchies of consciousness and hierarchies of physical beings in the universe, as we can see on a smaller scale on our planet.