connda

Monday morning. First day of class at the local schools. I haven't heard a peep from either of the schools that asked me to teach. I wonder if it might have anything to do with me writing, in Thai, on my application that I expected the school to get me a work permit prior to the first day of class? Humm?

I half expect someone to show up on my doorstep before Friday to give it one last try. We'll see. But considering that I've notified each school in writing (in Thai) that a work permit was essential to me agreeing to work, and was non-negotiable - well, maybe I won't. I guess it depends how bad that want me.

No problem. Back to the easy life of semi-retirement.

Friday evening -- No one has called or dropped by. I think I scared them away with the insistence on a work permit. Maybe they can now appreciate what's it's like to be a foreigner trying to work in this country. Or not Mai bpen rai. Maybe when they start losing global market share to the likes of Burma, Vietnam, and the Philippians they'll wake up a loosen up immigration and labor policies for "critical skills", like teaching English...........LOL! Puut len! "Ha Ha Ha You make joking Luang Connda! You have joking fun jing jing"

Monday morning. First day of class at the local schools. I haven't heard a peep from either of the schools that asked me to teach. I wonder if it might have anything to do with me writing, in Thai, on my application that I expected the school to get me a work permit prior to the first day of class? Humm?

I half expect someone to show up on my doorstep before Friday to give it one last try. We'll see. But considering that I've notified each school in writing (in Thai) that a work permit was essential to me agreeing to work, and was non-negotiable - well, maybe I won't. I guess it depends how bad that want me.

No problem. Back to the easy life of semi-retirement.

Most teachers have to work without the work permit being issued it does take some time. It is perfectly alright to work as long as the paperwork has been put in and the school has the paperwork from the labour office to show that.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

It's illegal to work without a work permit. Having the paperwork submitted is not having a valid work permit -- that's a fallacy. It's still against the law and you run the risk of being busted: 5 years in jail, 100K baht fine, and deportation. Sure, if you're busted and you're taken to jail, and then to court, I guess you could argue that you have submitted the paperwork. But the risk is all on the foreigner. I don't know about you, but I never want to see the inside of a Thai jail -- ever!

Slightly off topic (but maybe not) for those who plan to work without a work permit, or are currently doing so. Considering that you are risking being sent to jail, here is some light reading by a farang who spent some time in a Thai prison.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tm-hoy/what-its-like-in-bangkok-_b_1533902.html

This whole thing can be cleared up in one word: CCTV

Monday morning. First day of class at the local schools. I haven't heard a peep from either of the schools that asked me to teach. I wonder if it might have anything to do with me writing, in Thai, on my application that I expected the school to get me a work permit prior to the first day of class? Humm?

I half expect someone to show up on my doorstep before Friday to give it one last try. We'll see. But considering that I've notified each school in writing (in Thai) that a work permit was essential to me agreeing to work, and was non-negotiable - well, maybe I won't. I guess it depends how bad that want me.

No problem. Back to the easy life of semi-retirement.

Most teachers have to work without the work permit being issued it does take some time. It is perfectly alright to work as long as the paperwork has been put in and the school has the paperwork from the labour office to show that.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

It's illegal to work without a work permit. Having the paperwork submitted is not having a valid work permit -- that's a fallacy. It's still against the law and you run the risk of being busted: 5 years in jail, 100K baht fine, and deportation. Sure, if you're busted and you're taken to jail, and then to court, I guess you could argue that you have submitted the paperwork. But the risk is all on the foreigner. I don't know about you, but I never want to see the inside of a Thai jail -- ever!

The work permit process can be completed in 7 business days or less. So it's really up to the school leaders to work with the Ministry of Labor to get things moving.

I don't have to work, I choose to work. So I guess I have the luxury of putting my foot down and just saying "No work permit, no work." I wish other foreigners would do the same thing, because Thai labor law is incredibly counter-productive and virtually all of the risk is assumed by the foreigner who chooses to work (or selflessly volunteer) illegally.

Monday morning. First day of class at the local schools. I haven't heard a peep from either of the schools that asked me to teach. I wonder if it might have anything to do with me writing, in Thai, on my application that I expected the school to get me a work permit prior to the first day of class? Humm?

I half expect someone to show up on my doorstep before Friday to give it one last try. We'll see. But considering that I've notified each school in writing (in Thai) that a work permit was essential to me agreeing to work, and was non-negotiable - well, maybe I won't. I guess it depends how bad that want me.

No problem. Back to the easy life of semi-retirement.

I bought my non abs cbr at Chumphon Honda last year for 99 k bht. At the same time they had the abs for 115k.

Last I heard they were still at the same price and were the only dealer I could find selling at the rrp.

Recently I heard of a dealer in Samut Prakhan selling at 103k for the non abs but dont know the name of the dealer.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

You wouldn't happen to have an address or phone number? I did a web search for honda motorcycle dealers in Chumphon and came up with nothing much. Thanks!

Hi sorry but I cant find a phone number but if the paperwork turns up I'll let you know. I know at least one other tv member bought there so if they are reading maybe they can give the number. Failing that maybe a call to aphonda, hopefully they have a list of their own dealwrs:-)

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Thanks!

Ok, so now we bring religion into the mix. Are we not in trouble enough already in the world?

...and Thai Soap Operas / Comedy in the mix too.

Que trombone sound (WAAaaaaa, Waaaaaa, waaaaa, waa)

I found another one. CBR250R without ABS for 100K baht.

JR Motors in Phetchabun http://www.jrmotor.com/

Their quoting this price on their website. Probably worth a call. There seems to be huge variation in between the Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price and what dealers are selling them for. I want to find all the "best prices" I can find to try to talk local dealers down. But when push comes to shove, to save 15K to 20K baht, I'll take a road trip, no problem.

I bought my non abs cbr at Chumphon Honda last year for 99 k bht. At the same time they had the abs for 115k.

Last I heard they were still at the same price and were the only dealer I could find selling at the rrp.

Recently I heard of a dealer in Samut Prakhan selling at 103k for the non abs but dont know the name of the dealer.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

You wouldn't happen to have an address or phone number? I did a web search for honda motorcycle dealers in Chumphon and came up with nothing much. Thanks!

I'm always sort of amazed that there are some items that are so common in the Western World that I just can't find here.

The latest items that I've tried to find without any success: A portable Plastic File Box, and a set of Hanging File Folders. If you go to any stationary or office store in the US or Canada, these are easy items to find. Two simple items for organizing your paperwork at home.

I can't find them here. I've even gone to an Office Depot here in Thailand. I showed the manager pictures and she looked at me like I was an alien for the Planet Zargoz. I have also been to a number of office equipment stores...nothing. Well, other than having them try to sell me a cheap cardboard box for 700 baht (jing jing). The other things I've seen are cheap plastic folders that don't hold much of anything, and I've seen plastic "frames" that hold hanging file folders (useless if you plan to transport the files).

Come on. A simple plastic box designed to hold and organize file folders. How difficult of a concept can that be to understand? Oh wait a minute. My bad...TIT

I've posted pictures on this post. Maybe someone else has found the motherload of File Boxes and Hanging file folders somewhere in Thailand where I have yet to look. Please let me know if you have seen these elusive items anywhere here in LOS.

Well, good luck, plopmeister, with your visit to "a Government Office" tomorrow!

Yes, definitely interested in knowing how it goes - everybody's experiences can perhaps help to make life more easy for others, as then they'll maybe know what to expect. I'd write about my experiences, too - only I don't yet have any. Everything's remarkably quiet and I haven't been contacted by any school about hours, contract, etc. since completing the application forms - nada, nothing.

I'm informed that the application forms (in this area) were actually sent off yesterday (16th) to Kurusapa (or whoever), so I don't suppose anything much will happen for quite a while....

Cheers

Splod

I'm the same at the rest of you. After the frantic rush to find Native English speakers, and multiple phone calls to my wife by about every school within a 15km radius of our home, suddenly -- nothing! Complete quiet.

I would truly love to know what is going on in the background of the various Thai bureaucracies right now.

Has anyone else noticed, but this has all the elements of a good Thai Soap Opera. I just don't what to end up being the Water Buffalo sauntering through the village with 20 Thai kids on it's back.

Que whistle (Whhhhhhuuuippppppp) and spring noise (Boing Boing Boingggg).

I'm looking for a new Honda CBR. I've seen prices mentioned from 115K up to almost 130K. A dealer here in CM wants 128K+.

Does anyone know CBR 250R selling at the low end including names of bike shops and location. If I can get in the 110K to 115K range, it would be worth a trip.

Was told indirectly that I will not be required to teach at the local school. Slightly peeved as we normally have a lot of kids in and out of the Temple and their English is atrocious.

I could try and find out why I was knocked back and then resolve the problems but right now its not important to me to know hwy again Thai authority is doing its utmost to hinder rural children's education. Actually the answer to that gem is very obvious to anyone who had been here a while.

Might have a think about offering private tuition after school and at the weekends. Any thoughts?

Para

Para,

I'm assuming that you are a Buddhist Monk. If so, think of it from this standpoint. If you teach, are you doing anything that is counter to Vinyana? Prehaps that senior monk understands that if you teach in the school without the proper visa and work permit, you would be doing so counter to Thai law. Buddha preached "sila" (morality) and Vinyana the attempt to codify morality. If you teach, even private classes, are you breaking the law? If you break the law, are you violating Vinyana?

This is really a sad state of affairs. I've racked my brain attempting to think of legal way to help educate the poorest or the poor here in Thailand, but the law of Thailand simply do not allow for it. But for you I'll offer one more attempt:

Ask your abbot about establishing a school. Ask the abbot to use his influence to help you obtain a work permit. But, understand that if your abbot chooses not to go down that path, don't dwell to much on "why". If you are a Buddhist monk, what is your primary motivation: to possibly end suffering in your lifetime, or to teach English?

I wish you luck.

Work Permit Information

Relatively clear information on Work Permits can be found here in English. You can work at more than one school, but it simply needs to be included on the Work Permit application. http://wp.doe.go.th/sites/eng/index.html

The actually application can be found on this download page. Unless I am mistaken, the form a Teacher / Instructor will need is W.P.1 which is a PDF form that can be completed online and printed. http://wp.doe.go.th/en/downloadform

If you plan to work legally, you are probably going to have to team up and partner with your school (or schools) in order to get the paperwork submitted and processed. Although I gave my school all the paperwork they needed, I fully expect to show up to work on May 21 to find they have not submitted an application for me. And I will refuse to work, but hopefully that will set the fire under their derrieres to get the process rolling. I will help the school put together all the documentation that is needed, but I'm going to expect a school administrator to actually take this paperwork to the local Ministry of Labor and have them work through the bureaucratic obstacle course. I'll smile, but be firm. If they want me, they will do what needs to be done. If not, I'll go back to enjoying my "semi-retirement" routine.

Best of luck to those of you who plan to do this legally.

Great! Thanks!

Does anyone know a link to download a copy of the MoL Work Permit application. I tried the MoL main site but the link is broken to the download. I've also tried a couple of other provincial MoL sites, but no luck.

I have made it clear that as soon as I have a contract in my normal proffession then I am off..I see it as a bit of giving back to the community for a bit of beer money..and its 10,000 for the month..

With all due respect this situation is very disruptive to the children and sad to say if this is your mindset you shouldn't really be considering teaching or assisting. The course you say you will take is frankly in my eyes irresponsible.

You need to remember if you do run your next work permit request may well be bounced back to you as a refusal,Walking out mid term of a contract period or a school term is not considered a wise move by the authorities.

Weigh your options and motives carefully, the wrong moves may well come back to you with a vengeance.

I don't think there is much of a problem there consider that 95%+ of the teachers participating in this program are going to be doing so without a work permit. From a legal standpoint, this is a complete clusterf**k.

Personally, I have not been approached to sign a contract, so therefore, there is no contractual obligation. In addition, I'm pretty da_m sure that in order to get a work permit, you need to have a contract or a letter from an "legitimate" employer indicating that they are hiring you and the terms of your employment obligation. Without a contractual agreement, well siampolee is with well within his or her rights to move along whenever they wish. However, siampolee, (which sounds like Siam Police), should also be well aware that a work permit is require to work in this country.

I'm trying to figure this out: Are the Thai MPs, the MoL, and MoE so totally insulated from each other for me to actually believe that these entities are going to allow foreign workers to start work while violating Thai labor law. Is Thailand this totally f******d? How about the media watchdogs like the Nation and the Bangkok Post.

Hello out there? Does anyone have a clue as to what is going on? Does anyone give a s**t?

I'm done. Last post for my in this thread. Good luck!

Does anyone know where to apply for a work permit if I live in Lamphun Province? I'm not sure if the Ministry of Labor has an office here in the province. If they do, does anyone know where it is?

This link provides some clear, concise information regarding work permits and what legally is considered "work" here in Thailand.

If the school hires a foreign "Teacher", they must abide by the Thai Education Council's requirements for a Teaching License; BUT, if the person is hired as an English "Lecturer", they need only be from a target English speaking country (US, Canada, etc), or show a proficiency (which my guess means they can hire Filipinos who are English proficient, which many are) Lecturers can be hire on a monthly or hourly basis. Use this info to your advantage! There is not discussion regarding hours to work. The number of hours and the teaching format is up to the school.

There is no discussion regarding visas and work permits for the teacher to be hired.

I think what you are deciphering is pre-work permit stages, doesn't matter what your hired as, you need a work permit, the Filipinos I know teaching English still have work-permits.

One I knew got the sack after two years and only had 7 days to leave Thailand, don't know exactly what he had to do but he got another job in a school in the south.

He was on a B visa. Once you're out, you need to get out. You and I, on the other hand are on Marriage Extensions. Doesn't matter if you work or not. But if you work, and get the sack or quit, no problem! You're visa is not dependent on your work. The work permit is a different animal. You just need it to start work.

Kwasaki, go for it, but just stand your ground on the work permit issue -- politely. Offer to work with them to obtain it, play along, smile, and all will turn out good!

Schools throughout Thailand have been sent a document similar to the one attached to this post, that outlines the new 10K/mo English Program. Based on their size, schools are allocated a new budget of 10K baht per month per English Teacher/Lecturer that is hired for the program.

It seems like the MoE is giving school guidelines for the hiring and budgeting for new instructors hired for this program;

However, I don't see anywhere in this document where there is mention or guidelines pertaining to obtaining visas and work permits for these "newly hired", native speaking English Teachers / Lecturers.

There has been a separate thread in the Teaching Forum regarding this program, but nobody really knows the Ministry of Education's position on legally hiring these new teachers.

This program looks like it is shaping up to hire many hundreds of new foreign teacher who will be illegally working in Thailand.

Does anyone in this forum know anything about possible visa / work permit exemptions -- or -- visa / guideline for this new program?

1803.pdf

In many cases, the school is going to have to either hire you or offer you some sort of a contract before making the application for the Work Permit. They would not ordinarily apply for a WP, unless they were reasonably sure you will be employed by them.

You are probably also dealing with some schools who are not familiar with the entire procedure for making sure employees have the right paperwork for the appropriate visa and then the WP.

I know it's been discussed, but does the Teacher's Council of Thailand and the Teacher's License/waiver come into play in this program?

Yeah, the MoL is going to require a contract. They did for the other school that I worked at. So far, I've seen none. Just an application. I do have a copy of the letter that was sent to the school, but in Thai. It's going to take me awhile to translate. I type Thai, but not fast. I'm interested in what it says.

Considering TIT, I'm pretty sure that no forethought has been given to WPs, visas, or teaching licenses. From what I'm gathering in this thread is that no one has been approached by the schools and had the schools bring up these issues in a discussion. Although school starts on Monday May 14th, I'm really not expecting to actually see the inside of a classroom until late May or early June -- if at all.

I did a cursory translation of the document that the Department of Education sent out with the application forms. It's a basic discussion of the program (increasing Thai proficiency in English to be competitive within ASEAN), responsibility of the various local and regional education entities, amounts to be paid and to whom, and a calender of events. They do discuss the issues of the Thai Culture Class and Teaching License. If the school hires a foreign "Teacher", they must abide by the Thai Education Council's requirements for a Teaching License; BUT, if the person is hired as an English "Lecturer", they need only be from a target English speaking country (US, Canada, etc), or show a proficiency (which my guess means they can hire Filipinos who are English proficient, which many are) Lecturers can be hire on a monthly or hourly basis. Use this info to your advantage! There is not discussion regarding hours to work. The number of hours and the teaching format is up to the school.

There is no discussion regarding visas and work permits for the teacher to be hired.

In many cases, the school is going to have to either hire you or offer you some sort of a contract before making the application for the Work Permit. They would not ordinarily apply for a WP, unless they were reasonably sure you will be employed by them.

You are probably also dealing with some schools who are not familiar with the entire procedure for making sure employees have the right paperwork for the appropriate visa and then the WP.

I know it's been discussed, but does the Teacher's Council of Thailand and the Teacher's License/waiver come into play in this program?

Yeah, the MoL is going to require a contract. They did for the other school that I worked at. So far, I've seen none. Just an application. I do have a copy of the letter that was sent to the school, but in Thai. It's going to take me awhile to translate. I type Thai, but not fast. I'm interested in what it says.

Considering TIT, I'm pretty sure that no forethought has been given to WPs, visas, or teaching licenses. From what I'm gathering in this thread is that no one has been approached by the schools and had the schools bring up these issues in a discussion. Although school starts on Monday May 14th, I'm really not expecting to actually see the inside of a classroom until late May or early June -- if at all.

Anyway, up to you (as they say) - and yes, please do give some feedback!

Cheers

Splod

I am a bit fed up with no-one seemingly to know exactly what positions are, so I have just contacted the head Immigration Bureau in Bangkok asking directly what the position is on my situation.

Which is a marriage 1 year extension to stay, and is there any problems with a school applying for a work permit for me etc etc.

They will respond so they say ASAP with an email reply. K

@K

Immigration does visas. The ministry of labor does work permits.

Because you have an extension based on marriage, you can legally work in Thailand, and you can legally apply for a work permit.

Once you have your marriage extension stamped in your passport, you can apply for the work permit. I told the school it was there responsibility to get this for me. However, they will need documents from you. This info is from Siam Legal:

Cheers, thanks for that info, maybe you can comment further, the form I filled out, I sure was for only applying it seemed that way to me.

Passport - copies of every page. Each copy must be signed by employee......

They have only taken copy of ID page with TM6 and marriage extension stamp page.

Education degree......

I do not have a Degree they have only taken a copy of my certificate of when I had my fellowship.

Certificates or licenses held by applicant......

Didn't ask, I only have old school certificates but have a Motorcycle & car license.

CV...............

Had an old one of them they took a copy of it.

Photos, three (3) in quantities which are 5 x 6 cm...........

They only wanted 1 for the form I filled out and it was cut down to 30 cm x 30 cm.

Marriage Certificate..........

They took a copy of this.

Wife’s Thai ID card and household registration...........

They did not ask for this.

Thai government officials may require these documents to be certified by your country’s

embassy etc etc...........

If they do I am not going anywhere and certainly not paying for anything, the whole point of this was asking for my help, along with 2 trips to Maesot I already have to prepare very much paperwork just for my 1 year extension to stay for marriage.

EMPLOYER PROVIDED DOCUMENTS:- ........

I believe the school from what I have seen so far, haven't got a clue.

" It's not an easy process. For this reason, I expect 95%+ of the individuals planning to work for schools offering the 10K program to end up working illegally "...........

I think you are right and I for one will not be jeopardizing my marriage extension to stay. K.

They simply took what they need for the school application -- not the work permit. Again, my guess is that they will not ask you for work permit paperwork. I'm thinking they just expect most farangs to be ignorant and essentially work illegally <wink wink nod nod>. If you want to stay legal, you're going to have to push the work permit issue yourself. That's what I'm doing. You will need to be very clear that you will not work without a work permit and that you expect the school to process the paperwork through the Ministry of Labor. When you show up on the first day of class, if you don't have a work permit, don't work. If you do, you have just broken the law. They can then use that as leverage, as in threaten to turn you in if you don't work for them on their terms. It does happen. If you're not in this for the money (I'm not), then stand your ground.

Why did you accept the older computer and pay the 600 baht? I would say give me my old computer back and not pay a thing.

I started down that road, had already mentioned that to my wife, but it was obvious that my wife was losing face in front of the degenerate that was ripping me off. Creating a situation where my Thai wife loses face IS NOT worth 600 baht.

I dropped it for my wife's sake, and probably for my sake too -- I was extremely angry at that point. It's wasn't worth 600 baht to create the amount of disharmony that was about to happen in my house. I wanted the low-life and his junk computer out of my house as quickly as possible. I told my wife I was done with it, and turned my back on the guy. I refused to talk to him and the wife issued him out of the house. End of story.

Sorry, but I don't understand how your wife loses face trying to protect your property / interests.

because its an uncomfortable situation to accuse someone of dishonest practices or basically call him a lying cheating scumbag to his face

because of the langauge barrier your wife wold have had to make the accusations to the guy

i doubt a thai man would have had this problem but thai women are often scared of scumbag thai men and will often be afraid to stand up and start a ruckus when they can just pay up and avoid the fuss

your wife probably understood perfectly ,but women arent filled with testosterone and rage like a man in the same situation would be ,and thus are easier scammed

best not to let your wife make future deals ,i use thai women as translation only,not negeotiation ,and i tell them what i want to say and make the decisions myself ......

I'm thinking you just hit the nail on the head. Yeah, agreed.